Irish Can’t Cruise Over Navy
posted by John Vannie
A strong second half ground game propelled Notre Dame to a 27-7 lead early in the fourth period, but critical missteps in the final three minutes required that the Irish hang on for dear life to defeat Navy by 27-21 on Saturday. The Midshipmen were largely frustrated in their attempts to execute the option attack against a well-prepared Notre Dame defense, but they had a chance to pull out a win in the final moments before a fourth down pass fell incomplete in Irish territory.
Notre Dame appeared to be coasting with five minutes left as Coach Charlie Weis cleared his bench. The Irish were suddenly and inexplicably overcome by a wave of turnovers, special teams breakdowns, defensive lapses, coaching gaffes and wrongheaded calls by the referees that nearly cost them the victory.
The second team offense was moving toward the Navy goal with 5:25 left when freshman Jonas Gray fumbled at the five. The Middies took over but could not move the ball, and the game should have been over when they punted the ball back to Notre Dame near midfield. Unfortunately for the Irish, they fell short of a first down and compounded matters by gambling on fourth down and failing to convert. Navy took over and tailback Shun White quickly scored a concession touchdown against the Irish reserves with 1:39 left.
All players and remaining fans knew an onside kick was coming, but Notre Dame played it very passively and paid for it when Corey Johnson recovered for the Midshipmen. The Irish responded by returning its first team defense to the field. Backup quarterback Ricky Dobbs immediately lofted a long pass to Tyree Barnes, who somehow caught the secondary in a deep slumber. The play was ruled a catch at the one yard line, but replay showed that Barnes’ foot was partially out of bounds. The bad call stood and Navy scored two plays later to move within 27-21 with 1:21 still on the clock.
The odds of another onside kick were astronomical, but Navy was rewarded by a high bounce that enabled the opportunistic Johnson to grab it out of the air. Dobbs went back to work and scrambled for a first down before a sack and incomplete passes ended the threat. The Irish moved to 6-4 on the season and are eligible to play in a post season bowl game.
Although there were several bright spots throughout the afternoon, the offense and special teams mixed in several blunders. Notre Dame fumbled twice, had two passes intercepted, failed to convert a key fourth down and could not recover the aforementioned onside kicks. On the positive side, the running game carried the day and the defense dominated Navy for the most part.
Three of these turnovers stopped first half drives and kept Notre Dame from building a lead. The Irish broke into the scoring column with six minutes left in the first quarter when Mike Anello blocked a punt and Toryan Smith scooped it up and launched himself into the end zone. Navy was unable to move the ball and had recorded only two first downs until late in the second quarter, when they drove 58 yards in five plays to tie the game at 7-7.
The teams exchanged turnovers while trying to muster a two minute offense, and Brandon Walker was able to convert a short field goal to give Notre Dame a 10-7 advantage at the half. Weis appeared to make the better adjustments coming out of the locker room as the Irish ground game began to take hold and the defense reasserted itself. The aerial game was dialed back to screens and flat passes, but they were enough to keep the chains moving.
Golden Tate jump started the Irish with a 24-yard punt return, Armando Allen and Robert Hughes scored touchdowns and Walker added another field goal during the next 20 minutes to extend the lead to 27-7. The Midshipmen stayed true to form by refusing to quit, which set the stage for the nail-biting finish.
Let’s review the answers to key questions that helped determine the outcome:
Who will win the battle of first down when Navy has the ball?
Notre Dame held Navy to four yards or less on most first down plays. Consequently, the Middies were unable to convert 12 of 13 third down tries.
Will the Irish run the ball more than 50% of the time?
Definitely. They attempted 19 passes and 51 rushes.
Can Clausen return to form after a poor showing against Boston College?
Not really. His attempts to throw the ball downfield were disastrous before Weis pulled the plug and kept all throws short in the second half.
Which team will make more plays of 20+ yards?
Navy had three such plays. Two were rushing touchdowns and the third was the long completion to Barnes at the Irish one. Notre Dame’s longest gain was 19 yards on its first play from scrimmage, but it was consistently gaining 8-12 yards on runs and passes.
Will the Irish size advantage turn into physical dominance?
Yes, especially in the third quarter and on defense throughout most of the day.
Which defense will force turnovers?
Navy had a 4-1 edge in this department and also recovered the two onside kicks, but it was only enough to keep the score closer than it should have been.
As the regular season winds down, Notre Dame has improved in specific areas while its overall performances continue to frustrate the fan base. The running game works well when the staff stays with it, the defense has played admirably despite some personnel shortcomings up front and Walker is quietly becoming a competent kicker with a strong leg.
The down side includes the regression of Clausen and the downfield passing game, poor play by special teams, and the inability of the team as a whole to remain focused for 60 minutes. Essentially, the Irish are comprised of individual pieces that have still not meshed together as a unit. Some are extremely talented, but the quality of play reverts to the lowest common denominator as mental errors and lack of intensity creep into the equation.
A weak schedule and the fact that several starters are underclassmen have provided a measure of cover for a group that has clearly failed to realize its potential. Many Irish fans do not even remember when Notre Dame set the standard for a crisp, hard-hitting and well coached football team. This is not the case in 2008, and the question becomes what has to be done to preclude more of the same in 2009. One thing is certain: significant change won’t happen simply because the players are one year older.
Notre Dame appeared to be coasting with five minutes left as Coach Charlie Weis cleared his bench. The Irish were suddenly and inexplicably overcome by a wave of turnovers, special teams breakdowns, defensive lapses, coaching gaffes and wrongheaded calls by the referees that nearly cost them the victory.
The second team offense was moving toward the Navy goal with 5:25 left when freshman Jonas Gray fumbled at the five. The Middies took over but could not move the ball, and the game should have been over when they punted the ball back to Notre Dame near midfield. Unfortunately for the Irish, they fell short of a first down and compounded matters by gambling on fourth down and failing to convert. Navy took over and tailback Shun White quickly scored a concession touchdown against the Irish reserves with 1:39 left.
All players and remaining fans knew an onside kick was coming, but Notre Dame played it very passively and paid for it when Corey Johnson recovered for the Midshipmen. The Irish responded by returning its first team defense to the field. Backup quarterback Ricky Dobbs immediately lofted a long pass to Tyree Barnes, who somehow caught the secondary in a deep slumber. The play was ruled a catch at the one yard line, but replay showed that Barnes’ foot was partially out of bounds. The bad call stood and Navy scored two plays later to move within 27-21 with 1:21 still on the clock.
The odds of another onside kick were astronomical, but Navy was rewarded by a high bounce that enabled the opportunistic Johnson to grab it out of the air. Dobbs went back to work and scrambled for a first down before a sack and incomplete passes ended the threat. The Irish moved to 6-4 on the season and are eligible to play in a post season bowl game.
Although there were several bright spots throughout the afternoon, the offense and special teams mixed in several blunders. Notre Dame fumbled twice, had two passes intercepted, failed to convert a key fourth down and could not recover the aforementioned onside kicks. On the positive side, the running game carried the day and the defense dominated Navy for the most part.
Three of these turnovers stopped first half drives and kept Notre Dame from building a lead. The Irish broke into the scoring column with six minutes left in the first quarter when Mike Anello blocked a punt and Toryan Smith scooped it up and launched himself into the end zone. Navy was unable to move the ball and had recorded only two first downs until late in the second quarter, when they drove 58 yards in five plays to tie the game at 7-7.
The teams exchanged turnovers while trying to muster a two minute offense, and Brandon Walker was able to convert a short field goal to give Notre Dame a 10-7 advantage at the half. Weis appeared to make the better adjustments coming out of the locker room as the Irish ground game began to take hold and the defense reasserted itself. The aerial game was dialed back to screens and flat passes, but they were enough to keep the chains moving.
Golden Tate jump started the Irish with a 24-yard punt return, Armando Allen and Robert Hughes scored touchdowns and Walker added another field goal during the next 20 minutes to extend the lead to 27-7. The Midshipmen stayed true to form by refusing to quit, which set the stage for the nail-biting finish.
Let’s review the answers to key questions that helped determine the outcome:
Who will win the battle of first down when Navy has the ball?
Notre Dame held Navy to four yards or less on most first down plays. Consequently, the Middies were unable to convert 12 of 13 third down tries.
Will the Irish run the ball more than 50% of the time?
Definitely. They attempted 19 passes and 51 rushes.
Can Clausen return to form after a poor showing against Boston College?
Not really. His attempts to throw the ball downfield were disastrous before Weis pulled the plug and kept all throws short in the second half.
Which team will make more plays of 20+ yards?
Navy had three such plays. Two were rushing touchdowns and the third was the long completion to Barnes at the Irish one. Notre Dame’s longest gain was 19 yards on its first play from scrimmage, but it was consistently gaining 8-12 yards on runs and passes.
Will the Irish size advantage turn into physical dominance?
Yes, especially in the third quarter and on defense throughout most of the day.
Which defense will force turnovers?
Navy had a 4-1 edge in this department and also recovered the two onside kicks, but it was only enough to keep the score closer than it should have been.
As the regular season winds down, Notre Dame has improved in specific areas while its overall performances continue to frustrate the fan base. The running game works well when the staff stays with it, the defense has played admirably despite some personnel shortcomings up front and Walker is quietly becoming a competent kicker with a strong leg.
The down side includes the regression of Clausen and the downfield passing game, poor play by special teams, and the inability of the team as a whole to remain focused for 60 minutes. Essentially, the Irish are comprised of individual pieces that have still not meshed together as a unit. Some are extremely talented, but the quality of play reverts to the lowest common denominator as mental errors and lack of intensity creep into the equation.
A weak schedule and the fact that several starters are underclassmen have provided a measure of cover for a group that has clearly failed to realize its potential. Many Irish fans do not even remember when Notre Dame set the standard for a crisp, hard-hitting and well coached football team. This is not the case in 2008, and the question becomes what has to be done to preclude more of the same in 2009. One thing is certain: significant change won’t happen simply because the players are one year older.
150 Comments:
Lost in the inconsistency of the season is the consistency that has developed on the defensive side of the ball. With each week, this unit gets better. A strong defense will keep the Irish in every game. That's something in which all Irish fans should take solace. Lastly, you lament the special teams but until the first onsides kick, we had a blocked punt for six, 2-2 on field goal attempts and strong coverage on kickoffs. Navy's successes on the onsides kicks came only after ND was flagged for batting the ball. Check the rules: batting the ball forward is a penalty only when the ball is batted forward in play; not out of bounds.
Any word on Floyd's injury
The batting the ball penalty was absurd! Followed by the out of bounds receiver at the one, it was dumfounding. How about the simultaneous posession baloney that the official stated on a prvious replay.
Did the officials know the rules?
Officials made this game much closer than it should have been. I do not necessarily fault Coach Weis for emptying the bench. They had controlled the game and was trying to get some playing time for younger players. I do get that. The officials had an impact, but the main point is that they did not finish the game and this is disheartening
It actually felt like ND lost that game. This team can not play for 60 minutes in all phases of the game if it's life depended on it. Can some please explain to me how a receivers foot lands on the white sideline and is ruled a catch and how a team with no TO's is allowed to call a TO have the clock stop but no TO is called. Never have seen that in my life. Completely baffling end to the game on all fronts.
I would disagree about our defense that "with each week gets better".
the defense has done well...against poor or one dimensional or outmatched offenses.
BC
Navy
Washington
hardly show how good the defense is.
NAvy is 51st in offense
Washington is 113th
BC is 95th
these are not good offenses, not to mention, they are totally one dimensional offenses.
Washington is equally bad (78th passing 115th rushing)
BC is 57th rushing and 98th passing
Navy is 118th in passing and #2 in rushing, and who coming in to today, averaged throwing the ball 7 times per game, and frankly Navy's schedule is as light as ours. SMU, Temple, Air Force, Duke, Towson?
how much effort does it take to do well against teams that you know cannot throw the ball and who must run?
Navy's OLine is undersized, and they have no threat of a run game...
i would hardly consider just showing up against bad offensive teams like NAvy, Washington, BC, recently, and putting in competent performances to be indicative of a "strong defense"
totally not sold.
not to mention, all the alleged "young talent" that Charlie put in the 4th quarter, completely caved in to Navy...not exactly the kind of performance you want to see from all those "talented" recruits.
I am not buying it.
I will wait to see how the defense does vs. USC and our bowl opponent.
After leaving the stadium with such a fortunate win (despite the poor officiating and our poor play at the end), it's astounding to realize we were one play away (1st and goal from the 2-yard line) from a comfortable 34-7 win. The combination of bad coaching, bad officiating, and bad ND football at the end of the game still has my head spinning. Beyond all that, throughout the game, we had eight players leave with injuries, not including Lambert, who never played at all. I wonder how many of these are serious.
navy was lucky to be close those lucky bounces on the onside kick the catch on the one that's just luck. it's not always luck for the irish.p.s angry eagle bc 27 fsu 17! beat the spread tanx for the heads up
Love how you apologists always say you're one bad play, one bad call away from [fill in the blank]. Do you have any idea how pathetic you sound? From an outsiders perspective, you are many players away and many coaches away and many resources away and many years away from being a relevant program, let alone a national power. Get used to it. You guys aren't even mediocre, you are on the bad side of mediocre, like Rutgers or NC State. Where are all those supposed great recruits in your so. and jr. classes you folks have been chirping about? At other schools, they are actually making plays or already in the NFL. You are the only people in the college football world who don't know your entire program is a friggin joke. You have a snake oil salesman who parlayed a couple of soundbites about being "nasty" (whatever that is, but apparently important to ND fandom) into 10 year suffocating contract for your administration. Boy, were you played.
Enjoy reading your Sunday Sports Section tomorrow, I know I will - BC beat a ranked team on the road by 10 on national TV. When was the last time your tired program did that?
Anyone notice fieldgoal kicks won the game?
Oh one other thing. The game today was, by far, your best win of the season in terms of caliber of opponent. Check out the schedules of the teams you beat. How does that make you feel about Soundbite Charlie?
Angry Eagle -
I'm a Notre Dame grad and have been one of ND's harshest critics. However, that's mainly because we have high expectations. You can quote recent struggles, bowl games, blah, blah, blah...but at the end of the day, no one cares about Boston College. Best case scenario, you guys win 8 or 9 games in a year. You'll never be any more relevant than that.
Sure, we're going through a rebuilding process, but we've gone through this in the past, and we've returned to excellence. All great programs/franchises experience downturns. The Yanks were awful throughout the late 80s and early 90s and won 4 World Series thereafter. The Cowboys struggled in Landry's late years and then went on a roll. Whether it's with or without Weis, it's only a matter of time before we're racking up the wins.
How is BC measured again? Definitely not by Heisman winners or National Championships. If we're so bad right now, why are you spending your Saturday night on our website? Why do you care so much about your results against us?
Sounds like little brother syndrome to me. Have a good night Fredo.
Cheers,
Ray
BS on the ok to play the 2nd team. This IRISH have yet this year to finish a game. That is coaching - You are driving for 34 points and you put the 2nd team in? What was Charlie thinking. This is NAVY - they will come back at you. NAVY already did it with Temple. We were only up by 20. Finish the game. To this point I have been with Charlie - no more. The was the worst coach game I have every seen. No excuses - The IRISH have yet to finish a game. The 4th and 3 call in the 4th qtr with the 2nd team is a classic example for all time.
Dear Angry Eagle,
The irony of your post is that people like you, getting all worked up in ND hating, is half of what keeps ND alive. Half of the country hates ND. Half of the country loves ND. Unfortunately (for you), haters (such as yourself) are just as responsible for all the 'hype' and 'unnecessary attention' that you hate.
the irony.
As much as I hate to agree with Eagle..and I'm not agreeing so much..as this...
We are a poorly coached team and our execution is embarrasing.
We should have gone for the freaking throat when we had the chance? what the hell is wrong with this guy?
Run up the score? Jesus man...we almost lost it?
This guy should concern himself with scoring each freaking time we have the ball...
I hate this coach..
It's so freaking predictable...
He cant coach..and we have no heart..
When are you bozo's gonna get your head out of your ass and realize that we need a new direction?
I am an alum and I'm freaking ready to throw my tv out of the ten story building every time I watch this team..
GIMNME A BREAK
did you see how relieved and joyful he was at the end of the game? I'd be freaking pissed...
guys...I think we all jumped on the bandwagon after the SC GAME IN 05...but I have news for you...
This coach SUCKS....SUCKS EGGS...
and it's never been relevent as much as today...
LETS SUCK IT UP...and go after STOOOPS, GRUDEN, COWHER..SKIP OR LOU OR WHOEVER...
I'm just tired of being embarrASSED every freaking saturday
sincerly
IRISH LADD..class of 95
I get the arguments for clearing the benches and not wanting to embarass Navy. But clearly Charlie jumped the gun. He should worry more about not embarrassing Notre Dame. If you want the bench to get playing time phase them in. The first teams were desperately in need of a big dominating win against Navy and then Syracuse to carry them into the USC show down with a smidgen of confidence and swagger. Instead thanks to the last few of minutes of the Navy game they leave with their tails between their legs. This one is completely on Charlie. I dont want to hear him talk about playing sixty minutes if he himself is sabotaging that effort.
OK guys, sound like you know the drill, but here's a refresher course in case we miss a beat going forward:
1. When your team has sucked for 15 years, you lock-step point to the old NCs and Heismans.
2. When it is pointed out that the vast majority of those NCs and Heismans were from 40 and 50 years ago, you start talking trash about "safety schools."
3. When it is pointed out that the academic differences between ND and BC are neglibile these days, you devolve to the curious Fredo charge (Fredo was actually the weaker big brother) and the dopey personal attacks about late night blogging (a little hypocritical?).
Ok, now that we have that out of the way and we can fast forward to the reality of the here and now (which involves BC dominating ND for the better part of 10 years and humiliating them last week), can we all agree that ND has been very bad and downright embarassing ever since the classless Lou Holtz fake punt against BC in '92 up by 50 in the second half? I mean, if ND ever beats a legit team, let me know. Meanwhile, I will be hitting the snooze button waiting on that, because all I see when I tune in to that shameless, fawning national broadcast each week is a bunch of Syracuse-caliber players dressed in Blue and Gold and attending classes in South Bend.
P.S. Congratulations on being bowl eligible, that is quite an achievent for a group of Top 40 recruits as 5th yr seniors, Top 10 recruits as seniors, Top 5 recruits as juniors, No. 1 recruits as sophopmores and No. 1 recruits freshmen. Love how dead-on accurate those recuiting classes are, and how blind they are to the ND hype. No wonder the Irish beat the likes of San Diego State and Navy this year. Looking forward to that bowl game.
I say lets put CRIST IN..the guys a stud...
we all know he's not gonna stay 4 years anyhow...
JC is a bust...worse than Powlus..oh...i forgot..Powlus is his coach..GIMME A BREAK...
Guys...I'm the biggest domer of them all..
but can you honestly say that guys like TIM BROWN, MICHAEL STONEBREAKER...ROCKET...TONY RICE...JEROME BETTIS...et al..would've been proud of our finish in this game?
I'm tired of excuses..
also..ANGRY EAGLE..i'd love to kick your ass...
Just name a place bud...
It's on..
please get out of our website...dont you have somewhere else you can troll?
IRISH LADD
This one is for Ray: under the radar is the fact that BC is very much in a rebuilding year this year as well. BC is loaded with first year players at QB, running back and the entire secondary. Outside of the Defensive Tackles, every starter on the team is a sophomore or junior. Two true freshmen are carrying the ball. That said, BC has played a much tougher schedule than ND, pasted ND last week as we all know, beat three ranked opponents, and is on their way to perhaps 9, 10 or 11 wins, and may win the ACC. All that with recruiting classes in the 50s according to Rivals. Still believe the hype?
Your argument about loving/hating ND is absolutely true, I have been saying that for years, ND is not good, just appealing. But would you rather be good or appealing? Sounds like you opt for the latter.
When is Bill Kirk going to finally get fired? It is WAY over due.
When fans are left to sift through the "highlights" of a nail biter over Navy for reasons to be optimistic about our team's "progress" .... it's just too much.
If Navy had any semblance of a passing game, ND would have lost today. Quite simply, the game was there for the taking and Weis and his troops offered it up on a platter again and again and again.
This and the San Diego State "win" feel like 1985 Faust all over again. Except that Faust was a humble, wonderful guy. Weis swaggered off that field like his guys just took down Texas. $4.2 million a year to produce a laughingstock.
weis has to go...
end of story...
please help me come up with a list of who we can bring in?
How about Marty Schottenhiemer?
Angry Eagle said: "Top 40 recruits as 5th yr seniors, Top 10 recruits as seniors, Top 5 recruits as juniors, No. 1 recruits as sophopmores and No. 1 recruits freshmen."
Here are the correct facts from Rivals:
5th years were ranked #32 (of which 3 or 4 are left), Senior class #40 (there are 12 left on the roster now), Juniors #8 (from which some have left the program for various reasons: Frazer, Jones, Rueland, Prince, ect.), Sophmores #8, Freshmen #2/1. The best classes are a year younger than you have stated.
"...and may win the ACC. All that with recruiting classes in the 50s according to Rivals."
According to Rivals, Boston College 5th years were #24, Seniors #49 (you're almost correct there), Juniors #37, Sophomores #46, freshmen #33. Not quite in the 50's...
"Outside of the Defensive Tackles, every starter on the team is a sophomore or junior."
Looking at the BC depth chart, there are 8 seniors starting.
Notre Dame finally beat a team with winning record. I know it was Navy. Remember we beat 1-10 San Diego St and a 0-10 Washington and next we play 2-8 Syracuse. Any chance we can find a Bowl team with a losing record to play,
I don't think I've ever been as disappointed in a win as I was today. A win is a win, and although it was our first win this season over an opponent with a winning record, there were still too many mental errors and not enough emotion/motivation from the players to feel good about that win.
Despite the poor officiating: 1) while the call of an incomplete pass was correct b/c the player did not come to the ground with the ball, there was not simultaneous possession, 2) a granted completion where at least one angle showed the receiver's toe partially out of bounds, and 3) a granted timeout that should have not only been denied but also flagged for 15 yards, the most disappointing parts of the game were the decisions by the coaching staff to take the foot off the gas pedal again (UNC and Pitt) and the hands team's decision to literally watch as Navy recovered two obvious on-side kicks.
I am optimistic about the rejuvenated running attack, albeit against a smaller defense. At the very least it should give our three backs some confidence that they can build on against Syracuse. The true test will be against one of the best defenses in the country in the Coliseum. Clausen needs to get better and if he does not improve, next week would be a good time to get Sharpley some reps. (I may be mistaken but I believe Crist is redshirted and if he is, pulling his redshirt would be more harm in the long run that its worth this season.)
The defense showed good discipline on the whole while limiting the #2 ranked running attack in the country (309 yds/game avg.) to 178 yards. However, mental lapses at the end of the game by the defensive starters is cause for concern.
Another concern is the laundry list of injuries suffered on both sides of the ball. Who will be able to go next week and who will step up in place of those who can't play?
One last question; can someone explain to me (or perhaps to our friend Angry Eagle) how it's hypocritical for ND alums and fans to be reading and blogging on ND's premier fan website?
Having been a fan of ND simce I was 12 in 1950, I've lived through the good times and the bad times. I live and die ND football and right now for most of the last 14 years I've been doing more "dying" then "living". ND will turn it around, when I dont know, hopefully next year. I feel next year they will have a very poptent offense but its the defense that is going to worry me. I dont want to have to win games 35-30, 28-24 and so on.
To ANGRY EAGLE....BC is insignificant they mean nothing, they can win 10 or 11 games so what. ND gets more press time when bad then BC can get even at their best. The only thing of significance for BC is the great Doug Flutie, who I have a lot of respect for, making the famous "hail Mary" pass, other then that..... BC who?
Florida only took Tebow out of the game when they were up by 40. Why is CW playing Gray and Sharpley with 5 or minutes to go in the game? Why do we get burned with an on side kick twice? Roughing the kicker on the extra point? Going for it on 4th down in the 4th? All of these go right to CW. We need a win by 40 points in the worst way. Sometimes being "NASTY" means kicking them when they are down. You know all teams would do it to us in a minute.
"Angry Eagle" ... perfect handle.
BC's "long and storied football tradition" consists of exactly 2 PLAYS to hang their hats on (Hail Mary, 1993 Field Goal).
This game constituted progress???? Gimme a break. Weis is an idiot. And don't they coach special teams at ND anymore? You should have heard Don Criqui on the radio the last five minutes of the game. His voice was literally shaking with rage as he discussed CW's "coaching" maneuvers.
While a call for a leadership change is understandable, any successful organization must have in place a transition plan of attack. ND moved hastily with Willingham and cannot repeat the same process or the result of lost players and a public spectale will only add to the reality--ND's football program is mired in mediocrity.
All you Charlie haters can STFU! We won. A win is a win. Now we can let the man guide us to the NC before too long. We will beat USC, I guarantee it. Next year BSC bowl, then when Clausen is a Senior in 2010, ND is NC! Mark it down. And all becuase we stuck to our guns and let Charlie guide us.
I can't believe all these fans that are expecting nothing but win win win from this team. Practically the same team that only won 3 games the year before. You don't have that kind of a season without having to take it step by step to get back into the powerhouse list again. This season, this Notre Dame team has put themselves in a position to play competitive games and at some point during the game, had opportunities to win. Opportunities! There were no opportunities last year and this year there are. Along with the opportunities, they are LEARNING how to put teams away when they have the lead. This team is still learning to do these things. You can't expect them to come out and play like they've been atop the college football world and know what they're doing. Next year, we will take the next step, BCS contention. For some of you people to expect them to go from 3-9 to "gotta win every week" is ridiculous.
All the Weis haters aren't going anywhere, I'm sad to say. Some people are just born bad and they'll keep on whining until they get their toy. They've been taught that if you want something just cry the loudest and people will give you what you want just to shut you up.
Even with a victory the haters are crying. What do you want children?
Never thought I'd see the day when fellow ND lovers would want to lynch the coach after a ND victory. I know it would be a huge step toward rational thought for some of you, but try to look farther down the line for once in your life and see how bright the future of ND football is (with Weis). Top-teir talent is pouring into ND to play for Weis and picking us over USC, Florida, etc., and THAT DOESN'T GET YOU EXCITED????? I'd offer you some "emotional Viagra" if I wasn't sure your member was actually happy to be flaccid.
Just keep on keepin' on haters. Bury your heads in the sand and cry for momma to make it all better. Your negativity can't be fun for you or anybody around you. Proud of your life? God knows I'm sick to death of you all. . .
Angry Eagle - I'm glad you're still upset about the fake punt 16 years ago. You fail to mention that that the reason that Holtz ran the fake punt was to stick it in the collective eye of the biggest group of classless fans to visit South Bend in decades. I bet you were one of the idiots interupting Holtz during the pep rally the night before. Or, were you one the guys that showed up at Lafayette Square with your buddies and proceeded to walk around with your pants down all night picking fights with everyone. Better yet, you were probably the guy that couldn't hold their liquor, passed at at that same party, was abandoned by your friends and essentially left at the mercy of the pissed off nd students. How did it feel waking up the next morning outside in the cold in the keg tub? I guess I'd be angry 16 years later too. HAAAAAAAAAAAAA! ND will always be relevant, no matter how down we get, because of guys like you that stay up to 2:00 a.m. obsessed with how much you hate us.
Normally I fall in line with the comments here, and I suppose I do agree with many of them to an extent.
But I don't begrudge Weis in his decision to play the second-teamers at all when he did. Plenty of people tore him apart for NOT playing the bench in his first two years, leaving us so lean in experience in '07. We had a substantial lead, late in the game, and only a cataclysmic set of events could result in a loss. That's the very definition of when you play your subs.
Unfortunately, that's exactly what happened. A fumble inside the five yard line by Gray, inexplicably poor officiating down the stretch, not one but two converted onside kicks, etc. You couldn't have predicted such a series, and neither could Weis. If Gray doesn't fumble, but instead scores as he should, we walk off the field with a resounding win and people today would be extolling the virtues of giving the younger, less-experienced guys some much-needed playing time. You'd be talking about how much of a stud Gray is going to be, etc.
I do agree that our onside-kick coverage needs an education on being aggressive (though I don't know that it would have helped much on that third one...Navy couldn't have drawn up a better bounce). The team made mistakes down the stretch, no question, but I'll take an ugly win over a pretty loss, thank you very much.
Even in victory Weis is damned by some of you? What does it take to make you happy?
Angry Eagle,
Come back and talk when your team wins its first national championship. Until then, children should be seen and not heard.
Miss Eagle, Why not go to michigan website, and spread some hate there. There first year coach is about to finish the season with 3 wins. Not 10 like C.W. and there defense returned all but 2 starter from last year. Loaded on both sides with talent..no rebuilding there plenty of juniors and seniors on there roster..just like C.W. had when he won 10 games
I'd be happy if CW would just stop going for it on every 4th down. He will just not learn. Those onside kicks are pretty much the way the whole team plays - passive. Just can't seem to get the killer instinct and swagger.
BC is pretty much the same every year. Probably top 25, but never really talked about as a serious contender in anything but hockey. I do like their D-coordinator and they are pretty disciplined.
FINALLY, someone mentions Rich Rodriguez!!
If her were still at WV, you CW haters would be begging, pleading for him to come to ND and "turn this thing around..."
Face facts, changing coaches is a dubious proposition at best.
Next year will tell the tale on CW. If we perform and succeed by any usual standard (9-10 wins, good showings in all games), he'll be our man for a long time. If not, everyone will know it (perhaps even him).
I am reminded of the Faust years (i was a student at ND then). Faust wa a great guy, excellent recruiter, did honor to ND, but couldn't win. Because he was bringing in quality players, and given time to prove he could not get the whole job done, we were able to get an excellent coach (Holtz) to take the helm. The same thing will happen after NEXT year if CW doesn't make it.
I am willing to wait one more year, as long as the team doesn't quit on him.
Finally to angry eagle: Thank You very, very much! It is losers like you that will FOREVER make ND relevant in NCAA football. What other 6-4 team would inspire some moron to wax poetically on an opponent website about how lousy we are!! Types like you more than likely play just as large a role as we do in keeping our NBC contract.
Thanks again, keep up the good work.
As for the rest of the alums, always remember
WE ARE ND!
For the painfully obtuse, I am not saying BC is or should ever aspire to be what ND was many, many years ago, a national power. I am not saying BC has or ever will achieve what ND's program accomplished so long ago. No, BC has done very well for the better part of three decades carving out a spot for themselves as a solid 20-40 program, with the occasional fortuitous assembly of talent that lands them in the Top 10 once a decade (e.g., 1984, 1993 and last year). Most rational BC fans are perfectly content with that. Being a small, academically-oriented school, and not a massive state school with unlimited resources and countless places to hide the academically-challenged, that is the only realistic goal. Read those words carefully, ND Nation, because they should apply to ND as well, like it ot not. ND simply can no longer play with the big boys any more, a circumstance cogently evidenced by the past 15 years of so-so and bad seasons, the coaching carousel, the bowl losing streak, the blowouts to ranked opponents and, yes, the total domination by middling BC for this entire decade. What I am trying to say is that ND should aspire to be precisely where BC is right now. The constant talk of NCs right around the corner is pure folly. ND is clearly on the bad side of mediocrity, and you should disband these quixotic and unrealistic notions of a "return to glory." As I stated yesterday, college football hegemony has moved to a different place, one that the BCs, Wakes, Stanfords and NDs of the world simply can't (and frankly shouldn't) reach without significant compromise. I realize that that will be extremely difficult for you blowhards to grapple, since it is ingrained in your univeristy's culture that your entire identity and self-esteem are dictated by the success of your football team. But I guess without it, you are just another of the 30-40 national universities esconced in the second tier of academics behind the Ivies, Stanford and MIT.
What is ND bowl picture?
AH, Angry Eagle finally starting to come around!
I think you will find that the majority of alums are with you on the notion that a NC is folly--but truly it is for any school. Too much luck, scheduling, injuries to avoid/hope for in one season.
That having been said, I have changed my mind regarding your premise that ND can't compete. It turns out, of late, that some of the top talent in high Schools around the country are saying no to USC, and likes, and choosing ND. Whether they pan out only time will tell, but we are getting talent that I thought had passed us by in recent years. Maybe we will never have the volume of talent to win a NC, but certainly enough to compete for one.
But again, ND and NBC both thank you for caring so, so much about Notre Dame football.
It was a win against NAVY for goodness sakes....that is a pretty low threshold of achievement don't ya think? The running games hasn't "returned" guys, Navy is made up of tiny guys compared to ND so we better be able to run against them. Charlie Weis is a disaster and must go. Can any of you really, honestly believe that keeping the fat man around for 6 more years is a good thing? Recruits will wise up as results look terrible and the Super Bowl rings mean nothing. Bling bling on fat man with a lousy record isn't impressive, it is gross. Just watching him waddle out is disgusting and he dribbles out of his mouth and nose. He represents ND people and it ain't pretty.... I am embarrassed each game day. I would hire this guy for anything let alone hire him to be on national TV to represent ND.
Weis should not worry about "embarassing" anyone until the game is hopelessly out of reach. Yesterday Leyer took his foot off the gas by taking Tebow out when the lead was around 40. And why not try to run it up anyway? ND needs that type of game right now. What they don't need is a feeling that they just hung on to win. Weis should not put his players in that position, ever. This is football, take care of business. Allow your team to feel good about itself for a change. Nothing wrong with a 34-7 or 41-7 win. Remember Navy celebrating last year like they just won WWIII? Step on their collective necks and stay there. ND isn't good enough to care about not embarassing an opponent.
Angry Eagle makes some good points, but the fact is, top recruits are beginning to flock to ND. The talen level is getting better. The problem is Weis. From the start, I've said there's something wrong with this team. It's like a train wreck waiting to happen. Individual talen is getting better, but without good coaching, it's just going to be that, individual talen without any direction. Was there one game this season where ND actually looked solid for 60 minutes? Washington, which is basically a DII level program right now? Let's see what happens next year. In a way, Weis' proclivity for bringing in top recruits is hurting him, since when the talent level is there, it will fall on the coaching. We've all watched (and some of us have played) enough football to know when a team lacks good coaching. The Jets under Rich Kotite just didn't work hard because Kotite didn't work hard. His practics were like Club Med. That's not the problem with this team. This seems to go deeper -- an inability to put together a coherent game plan and stick to it. Claussen is regressing terribly. What's going on there? He can barely make a downfield pass anymore without an interception. His confidence is clearly shot. We need to use the TE's more -- Ragone will be a big help next year. That was a tough loss.
Next year will be key. Are we going to be satisfied with 7-8 wins a year plus to occasional 9-10 win season? Then we're BC. Nothing wrong with that, but we're Notre Dame. How can we get this program to the level of Florida, Texas, Oklahoma, LSU? Can it even be done? I know Weis is trying. I know he's a hard worker and a good recruiter. Maybe 5 straight years of top 10 classes under Weis will do it. If not, where are we?
"One thing is certain: significant change won’t happen simply because the players are one year older."
Absolutely correct!
And to all you ~ ALL OF YOU ~ people giving CW props after yesterday's game: OPEN your EYES. "What you see is what you get."
And, sure, we'll see it again next year. And it will be year 21, without a national championship. And, next summer, you'll be cheering your Cubs on to 101.
~mps,ND'72
angry eagle,
With all due respect, BC is not academically comparable to Stanford, let alone any Ivy League insitution (and has a significant chasm to cross to meet even the weakest Ivy institution). On your academic stretch to compare ND and BC, are you joking? I do not not believe US News is the gospel, but the most recent rank BC is #34 (ND is #18, while Geerogetown is #23). Do you really want to know where Stanford and the "least" Ivy is compared to BC? Am not trying to be critical as BC is a very fine school, but let's be realistic. Am both a Notre Dame and Ivy (UPenn) grad, so have some perspective for comparative purposes. We can move to the grad schools too, if you would like. ND's MBA program is top 20 (#20 in most recent Businessweek out tomorrow), while BC is second tier (outside of top 30...somewhere). ND's law school is #23 (while typically between #17-20 ranked)-where is BC? Forgive me, but BC is not even Georgetown. At the very least, check your facts, since you've checked your class at the door. Have been disapointed too, with the progress this year and losing to BC (was at the '93 game as a student), but never once did I consider going to the BC website to act like a depondent child. I mean, really, why not go to the Wake Forest site (since you mentioned them, as well) and try to convince them about BC's regional merits and academic/sports prowess as a powehouse to be reckoned with? Maybe there, you would have an arguement worth spending your time on. Respectfully.
angry eagle,
did you catch it? ther's a an obvious, but small test for you in the body of the reponse...
Fire Bill Kirk!
Wow, I applaud you Angry Eagle. You come on this board and rule these guys. There like sheep. Good for you!
This has got to be one of ND greatest wins ever. The future looks bright for sure!
I go back and forth on how I feel about this game. At the time, I was yelling at the TV, upset and angry that another '08 collapse was in progress. After the game though, I started to think about a few of events.
1) Playing second stringers. Someone was right on here earlier when they said everyone complained when Charlie didn't get any time to his second stringers his first 2 years here. You can't really have it both ways.
2) Because of the crazy ending, in which Charlie again took his foot off the gas, bad calls littered the last 2 minutes, and unlucky (and a few lucky) bounces made this way more interesting then it needed to be, we are losing sight of the fact that our entire team dominated Navy for 28 of 30 minutes in the second half. Add on top of that the first half, in which we seemed to move the ball and then make another dumb error, but the defense kept coming in to save us, our defense played 60 minutes minus 2 drives of great (not just good) football, and our offense played great for 58 minutes minus errors by Clausen.
Someone said on here "if Navy had a passing game we would have lost to them again!" This comment is assinine to the highest degree! Navy is a running football team that can occasionally throw, and we took them 100% out of their gameplan until our second string D was in with 2.5 minutes left.
Are there problems? You're damn right they are. Our offense made mistakes the entire first half (our defense covered). Our hands unit needs to learn how to get an onside kick (if we're going to win games in the future, teams will be kicking onside kicks agianst us). Charlie needs to realize that going for the jugular is not as much 'classless' as it is 'good football'.
One last point. With all the discussion of being "Boston College" or getting our program to a level of an LSU/Oklahoma/USC, I feel I need to throw my two cents into this pot. Being BC, with no national championships and a scarce BCS appearence is not the goal. National titles and national prominence is the goal. However, everyone who expects a National championship in 2 years just because we've had a good recruiting class or three is nuts. Look at the average of our 2-3 classes. We're somewhere in the 1-10 range, which means we have elite talent. But it also means there are 1-10 other schools with the exact claim. How many national titles have the teams that have had those kind of recruiting classes over the last few years picked up? USC? LSU? Florida? Oklahoma? Texas? OSU? Sure, they've each gotten a few, 1-3 each over the last 10-15 years, but how many times over those last 10-15 years have you looked at a team in the beginning of the season and said "this team is going to run the table and win it all" and been right? There's a reason Vegas makes money on those bets! Just because you have the best talent, and maybe even the best coaching doesn't give you a guarantee of ANYTHING.
When I think of what I want ND to be over the next 15-20 years, I want a program that is going to a BCS bowl 2 out of ever 3 years, and maybe 3 out of 4 or 4 out of 5 if we're lucky. I'd like to win somewhere around 50% of our BCS bowls (look at the stats, even the BEST coaches are in that range), but slightly less is acceptable in the short term. We need a national title appearance every 6-8 years, and a win every 10-15. And the coach should be allowed THAT is a realistic expectation for any top teir program and I beg anyone to tell me that Notre Dame should ever expect more.
Go Irish!
"We need a national title appearance every 6-8 years, and a win every 10-15. And the coach should be allowed THAT is a realistic expectation for any top teir program and I beg anyone to tell me that Notre Dame should ever expect more."
Let's look at some stats.
Weis against teams with winning records: 9-18 (.333)
Weis against teams in the Top 25:
1-12 (.077)
Next year is Year Five, not Year Three as you and so many would like us to believe.
I think you need to adjust your expectations. Like National Title Appearance: Never, needless to say, if you don't play in it, you can't win.
Haters who live for stats beware of obsessive masturbation!! Step away from your computers and find a girlfriend.
Even in victory people are telling us that the stats show we're on the wrong track. Aren't you happy we won? Do we have to win perfectly every time? In case you haven't noticed, Mr. Oblivious, nobody ever wins perfectly. A win is most definitely a win, period.
The future of ND football with Weis is very bright and I hope all the crying from the Collective Ignorant doesn't start to eat at the psyche of this team or Weis. Hopefully Weis really doesn't read the papers or bloggers because I'd hate to think that he's reading posts from some of you morons.
Yes, this is year five, but building the program from what it was gives him a few years. Once our program is at what others call an "acceptable" level, we need one national championship appearance every 6-8 years.
The slide to the academic argument is a common one for you dopey Domers when your football team sucks and you have nothing else to argue. It's laughable. As some of you know, I did not attend BC, I am an Ivy League graduate. And we in the Ivy League do not look down through our noses at the 2nd tier schools like ND and BC, we just lump you all together as "pretty good" schools. I bring this up to underscore that there really is no big academic difference between ND and BC, just as there is no big difference between BC and, say, Villanova. That's why I find your arrogance about ND's purported academic superiority over BC so funny. Ivy Leaguers are smart enough to know that every school in the Ivy League is solid, which is why you don't get moronic "safety school" chants at Ivy League games. Harvard, for example, does not disparage Brown. And for the idiot who pointed to US News & World Report Rankings, note that Harvard is #1 this year and Brown is # 16, almost the same, negligible distance between ND (#18) and BC (#34). Whoop-de-damn do. That and a token gets you a ride on the train.
And for the other idiot who misconstrued my comments as comparing BC to Stanford academically, clarifying what I thought was obvious, I was grouping them (along with Wake, ND and Vanderbilt) together only because they are small, academically oriented schools competing against large, state schools in D1 football.
Lastly, for the guy who thinks ND is really landing all these top recruits, here's a newsflash for you. When a player is reported as being recruited by ND, they vault from 2 stars to 4 stars. So your team sucks because its full of just OK players who aren't nearly as good as they were hyped. It's not the coach.
This team is maddening to watch. They make a ton of mistakes and I think their minds are not right from last year.
Charlie has been blamed for everything, but the fact is that players need to step up and take responsibility.
Tim Tebow did after Florida's loss to Ole Miss and the whole chemistry of the team changed. No Irish player has done that.
Critique Weis if you want, but realize the players are in the equation too.
"Top-teir talent is pouring into ND to play for Weis and picking us over USC, Florida, etc., and THAT DOESN'T GET YOU EXCITED?????"
- it would get me excited if i did not see what was happening to that top tier talent once it arrived.
These are still only HIGH SCHOOL KIDS, whose talent is evaluated as potential, nothing more. College Football is littered with 5 stars who did not pan out...hundreds of them, from all the best programs, USC, LSU, Texas, Miami, Florida, Florida State, Oklahoma.
Considering how poorly coached our players are, the top tier talent that may be coming, are clearly not developing properly, and do not have the best chance of being top tier college players.
For every freak like Floyd, there are several who are not going to pan out.
Look at our "great" 2006 class. It has been a colossal failure. NOt a single 5 star has lived up to billing, with the coaching they received. (Young, Reuland, Aldridge) even the 4 stars are hardly impressive by the end of their 3rd year in the program. They arrived in June 06. That is 3.5 years at ND. 3 seasons, 3 summer/fall camps, two spring practices...and nothing. Not one single all-american from any of the 5 stars or 4 stars. Not one...not to mention several departures. What about the 2007 class that everyone said was so great because they stepped in early?
Sure, Clausen has talent, but let's face it...he probably won't be an all-american/Heisman candidate till his senior year considering the QBs ahead of him who will be back next year. (Tebow, McCoy, Bradford, Sanchez)
Kamara has gone completely MIA, and is behind Floyd and Tate now, forever. Tate, Allen, Brian Smith, Harrison Smith, Ian Williams all have talent, but who knows just how much? Tate is certainly a potential game breaker, but he has been taken out of the last two games, alarmingly, and without Floyd, he is bracketed and eliminated.
Allen is not a between the tackles runner. Brian Smith has a ton of potential, Harrison Smith is not a LB and should be back at Safety next year. Ian Williams has not lived up to the hype generated from last year and all this was done vs a weaker schedule, and with more experience and talent beside them and a year under their belt.
Sure there is lots of "potential" but is that potential any higher than other elite players at other schools with better position coaching and development? No. Even at those schools, 5 stars still do not become super talents with consistency, because at the end of the day, they are HIGH SCHOOL kids, with nothing other than "POTENTIAL".
The difference is, top programs can develop a superstar from a 3,2,1 star (AJ Hawk, Nick MAngold)as well as a 5 star. We can't.
Not to mention, 5 stars Fail *ALL THE TIME*, even at the most elite programs, so just cause we are getting 5 star talent guarantees nothing.
Look at Miami, Florida St and Tennessee the past few years. Even USC has tons of 5 stars that don't pan out.
getting top tier POTENTIAL talent only means something if you can develop it, and we have not shown we can, since the first "Top" class of the Weis era (2006).
"Haters who live for stats beware of obsessive masturbation!! Step away from your computers and find a girlfriend.
Even in victory people are telling us that the stats show we're on the wrong track. Aren't you happy we won? Do we have to win perfectly every time? In case you haven't noticed, Mr. Oblivious, nobody ever wins perfectly. A win is most definitely a win, period.
The future of ND football with Weis is very bright and I hope all the crying from the Collective Ignorant doesn't start to eat at the psyche of this team or Weis. Hopefully Weis really doesn't read the papers or bloggers because I'd hate to think that he's reading posts from some of you morons."
Wow, these are the supposed Notre Dame supporters who make the rest of us look bad. Are you in third grade? Are we going to starting talking about his Mommy next? The original poster brought the stats up, whether we Charlie supporters like them or not. Personal attacks won't obsfuscate them. Secondly, the original poster did not even mention the Navy game. Do you have reading comprehension issues as well? Clearly you are no ND grad. I'd rather you not try to help the Charlie cause, you just digging us a deeper hole.
getting top tier POTENTIAL talent only means something if you can develop it, and we have not shown we can, since the first "Top" class of the Weis era (2006).
Best post of the day.
Well, we wanted more running plays and showed we can beat Navy by 6 with power running. Are we satisfied now?
Doomers, you just don't get it. We do not have a leader on this team, either a player nor a coach. We play with no heart, fire or swagger. We get pushed around by inferior teams, we have no strengh up front, our QB stares at the receivers and the head coach doesn't seem to care. He was good in a system at New England, he is gone and they are still good, example: Super Bowls with out him, also see what Romeo is doing in Cleveland. John Sullivan said it best and the end of last year, Charlie doesn't know how to teach an 18 year old, he knows how to coach a man. There is a difference, we need a teacher, a leader, a new coaching staff.
What we learned...
1. Charlie Weis needs to know when to put in back ups and start ending the game. Thats not at the beginning of the 4th quarter.
2. The running game can be pretty good.
3. Clausen needs to step it up. Hes got the skills and he is ready physically, but it seems as though he has gotten back into last years mentality of forcing plays.
Overall I was happy, because it was a win. I just want us to win a bowl, whatever bowl it is and next year we will dominate, at least I think we will. GO IRISH!!
DMW said...
Well, we wanted more running plays and showed we can beat Navy by 6 with power running. Are we satisfied now?
Don't be silly....when you have an 80 lbs advantage the running game performance against Navy doesn't mean sh*t.
This ain't the good old ND anymore.... see therealnotredame.com
The Notre Dame Family is dead and was replaced by ND, Inc.
"Wow, these are the supposed Notre Dame supporters who make the rest of us look bad. Are you in third grade? Are we going to starting talking about his Mommy next? The original poster brought the stats up, whether we Charlie supporters like them or not. Personal attacks won't obsfuscate them. Secondly, the original poster did not even mention the Navy game. Do you have reading comprehension issues as well? Clearly you are no ND grad. I'd rather you not try to help the Charlie cause, you just digging us a deeper hole."
It's obvious you're not a ND Grad. You spelling and grammar reeks of being a back woods hick from Tennessee. I stand by what I said, anyone flaunting stats needs to go find a girl, they need more to do in this life. And yeah, I'll talk about his Mommy, Grand Mommy, etc. If you're not fully behind Charlie Weis, then you're simply not a fan of Notre Dame! Get off the ND boards and blogs.
And oh yeah, I graduated ND in 1989 and make $200k/yr, how you doing Bucky?
This is just my opinion:
1) Get rid of Clausen - he's overrated and irrational. Put in Dayne Crist - he's got the size and arm strength and is better than Clausen. The "Golden Boy" Jimmy is obnoxious anyways and is just not that good, end of story. He has GREAT receivers who want the ball.
2) Get rid of Weis - hes not a college coach. Sure, he can recruit, but half of that is the tradition of Notre Dame helping him sell it to recruits. Guys like Urban Meyer, Nick Saban, and Pete Carroll are TRUE college coaches. Weis belongs in the NFL.
3) We need heart - this team plays with NONE. Part of it is the players fault, but some of it is Weis' fault as well. Do any players ever take the blame for their mistakes?
4) If we struggle with teams like Navy and Pitt, than how are we ever even going to compete with teams like USC, Florida, and Texas? Imagine how we would do in the SEC or Big 12...I don't even want to imagine that.
5) Weis is an ND alum himself. I just think he knows how to manipulate ND followers by creating excuses and dishing out a lot of BS. Its about time he quits talking and shows results.
6) There is no way I see us going to a BCS bowl game for a while. Let alone winning any bowl game at all.
7) At least our basketball team with be good this year. Final Four anyone?
angry bird maryland will win acc not bc watch out thanksgiving is coming you turkey go irish irish forever
Angry Eagle -
Why doesn't it come as a shock that you're an Ivy League grad? During my two Wall Street jobs there was always one constant - while Ivy Leaguers always held themselves with a certain arrogance and they certainly understood book theory better than everyone else, their execution was awful. The worst performing analysts at my shops were ALWAYS Ivy grads: unable to adopt and stubborn in their own beliefs, they couldn't use common sense in evaluating companies and always held to the beliefs from their models even as they lost money...all the while telling everyone how smart they are.
You're the same way my friend. You're on here trying to explain why we're never going to be good again, using stats and results from the last 15 years...blah, blah, blah. 15 years in the whole scheme of things is nothing when you've experienced such long-term success.
Why do people point out tradition and past Heisman trophies? Because that's the lure of ND. People want to come to Notre Dame because we're more than a bunch of library dorks. People aren't concerned about our short-term struggles. They want to be part of the culture, which followers of the school absolutely adore. We demand excellence in academics, athletics, AND community service. We're not one-dimensional. We keep getting recruits, and we will get over the hump once again, just like other proud traditions/programs that stumbled for a period and then experienced a return to grace.
As far as your comment that Ivy league schools are all pretty much the same and that ND and BC are "second tier schools", please explain to me how Brown at #16 is so much better than ND at #18?
Lastly, I would like to thank the Ivy league circle for such brainpower as Paulson and Bernanke. It's been a pleasure watching these 1st tier dorks run the economy and the country into the ground. Again, their ideas sound so great on paper...too bad they never learned public speaking, diplomacy, and actual execution.
-Ray
southbendstallions@yahoo.com
The comments about "potential" are starting to fall on deaf ears. The fact is that the best player at his position, week in and week out for ND, is a walk on - Mike Anello. He does his job extremely well and you see him flying around the field on every special teams play. The same cannot be said for many of our "5-star" recruits. As an ND alum, whether it is in football or a career, heart and passion overwhelmingly wins over talent. That is what we are seeing this season. And as a Yankee fan as well, I have watched the highest paid team in baseball fail to win for the last 8 years. However, I am hopeful that this team and this coaching staff will use this season as a wake-up call, that talent cannot overcome mental lapses and lack of discipline. Weis is not a master motivator, he is out of the mold of a technician - the likes of Spurrier or Walsh - who have proven they can win. But all of those "systems" demanded perfection and quite frankly argued that you did not need the best players to win. Look at Florida's quarterbacks over the years. So ND has closed the talent gap to the point where we should be able to succeed in Weis' system. I was not sold on Weis when everyone was annointing him the next great coach in 2005, nor am I ready to dismiss him now; because I do not think many of the coaches mentioned as a replacement would be better. I look to next season to show dramatic improvement in both the play and the character of the team. If that does not happen, then a high profile coach can then be brought in to try and win with the "talent" Weis has recruited.
weis isnt a college coach. plain and simple. his biggest problem is he isnt fired up enough and isnt a great motivator. look at our o-line. they are bigger than almost everyone of their oppenents yet they play like a bunch of pansies. college players dont have money so they have to be motivated by the coach. perfect example, lou holtz. he was one of the best motivaters of all time and still is. when he came to south bend for the michigan, he spoke to the team before the game and they came out fired up and kicked michigans ass. weis doesnt understand that college players need to be taught, not told what to do.. they arent 24 years old. we need more coaches like tenuta and brown. those guys are in your face coaches who are intense and fired up all the time. and look how the defense has responded. they havnt been getting the five star recruits like the offense, but theyve been dominant the last 3 games. sure the oppenents sucked but they still played emotional and with passion. i say let weis finish up the recruiting class, the fire him. all he can do is recruit, but cant develop them. btw, jonas gray NEEDS more carries. he is the best running back we have. i havnt seen any of our backs, even armando allen (mr 4.38) take a run play that was going right, stop in the backfield and run completely away from the play and outrun 3 defenders to the sideline who had great position on him for a 5 yard gain. not to mention hes 6'0 225 lbs. allen is a good spread back but gray is the best RB we have. cant wait for cierre wood too. him and gray are perfect compliments. btw, really hope floyd recovers.
You're the same way my friend. You're on here trying to explain why we're never going to be good again, using stats and results from the last 15 years...blah, blah, blah. 15 years in the whole scheme of things is nothing when you've experienced such long-term success.
Here are some recent stats:
Weis against teams with winning records: 9-18 (.333)
Weis against teams in the Top 25: 1-12 (.077)
Weis's annual salary: approx. $3.5M/yr
So, let's forgot the past and even the recent past and concentrate on the here and now. The coach we have has not been successful against good teams. And awful against great teams. The facts are plain and simple, unless you simple choose to ignore the record book. But he will be just good enough every year to kept his job. And every year will be the “Make or Break” season for Charlie. But there will be some mitigating circumstance as to why he will be afforded another chance, whether it be young players, bad assistant coaches, top rated recruiting classes, excessive buyout clause, etc. We will wallow in slightly above mediocrity times, until 10 years have passed us by. And then we will be right back where we started from. I’ll be here and hopefully by that time, the university will have had time to work out a plan for our next coach. Here’s to 2015. Go Irish!
angry eagle,
my last sad note to your out of tune trumpet is that, respectfully, you do not seem very bright and doubt you graduated from any Ivy institution. you most likley work at some second tier firm which compliments your lack of class and purported analytical skills. will not post gain to humor your inane sens of self and lack of esteem. feel free to post and know every time you do, the lack of any response is met with simple laughter. bye-bye lil' birdie...lmao (ibid.).
angry eagle,
did you catch it, there was another test for you in the body of the response (can you use your super brain to see if there are any typos , or grammatical errors)? or does it all look just right, like your rationale for posting here...lol.
Sorry if I offended you Ray, but you don't know a compliment when you see one. I said that ND is a pretty good school, just like BC, GTown, Wake, Tufts, University of Rochester and a litany of others just outside the elite. However, you again miss the point, which was that there simply is not enough of a difference between those schools to be calling one or the other a safety school, just like there is not enough of a difference between the Ivies. Don't get so hung up on academics, ND is a fine school, not top tier, but damn close as you point out. You should not be embarasssed about its academics. And you should not be saying disparaging things about BC because they are right there with you.
As for the Heismans, you have your Tim Brown and we have our Doug Flutie in the 80s. After that, you have to go to back 45 years to John Huarte (ND '64) before you find one for either school. This is relevant?
Back to my point. ND has been a pretty mediocre football team since about 1980, except for an aberrational 5 year revival in 88-93, when ND won it's only NC in that span. The Faust years were extremely weak before that championship, and we all know how bad, just plain bad, ND has been since. That's 25 of 30 years of being Just Another Program. Face facts, right now BC has a better football program than ND. A MUCH better program. You can talk all you want about getting back to NC caliber, but in my view you should just concentrate on getting to BC's level. You are not there right now, in fact you are significantly below that level, as evidenced by the 6 game losing streak and the Irish getting the ever livin' snot kicked out of you last week for all to see.
BC has won 7 or more games for 9 straight years. They were Top 10 last year with a serious Heisman candidate in Matt Ryan, who will probably win NFL Rookie of the Year and perhaps even MVP. They have a slew of recent QBS who have started in the NFL, including Ryan, Matt Haselbeck, Tim Hasselbeck, Glenn Foley and Flutie. Brian St. Perre, Mark Hartsell and Quinton Porter also all made NFL teams as backups. The O-Line and linebacker grads are legion. BC wins all its bowl games and graduates all its players. Contrast that to ND. Yes they graduate people (at least the ones who stay), but they are saddled with sub-500 seasons, no QBs in the NFL (except unproven Quinn and Mirer the bust), and blowout loss after blowout loss whenever they play a team at the NC caliber level. I won't even mention the recent record against teams with winning records. Ooops, I mentioned it.
Get real folks, you have a crappy program. The players you claim are the cornerstones of your next NC run are in the same classes as all those 2 stars at BC that just embarassed you. If ND will be competing for a championship in the next couple of years with those guys, as some of you say, then BC should be in the Super Bowl with theirs.
angry e-
you doubtfully ever attend any ivy league school, given your comment that no "league" institution chants "safety school." what planet are you on? am an ivy league grad (who cares, there are plenty of schools (small ones too) that are just as competitive (amherst, williams etc), and there's now way you ever attended a football game where there was not a safety school like chant at some point b/w the "big three" and others, or similar league rival banter. your vaudville hook is long over due here. go spend your time more wisely, IF yu have anything else better to do.
agree w/ anonymous re: the angry "e"...it's getting a bit tired. by the way, i went to stanford and can tell you nobody is hung up on the "ivy league" as being some lofty place, as few from stanford feel that it's some end-all, be-all. there are many great schools.
I second the response/s from above regarding the angry "ant", or whatever smallness of intellect finds gratifying about ranting on some sports blog. I mean, please, go find something better to do. You seem very outer directed. Do not want to judge, but your constant replies here are a bit odd (to put it nicely).
I notice how you boys are staying away from my football points. Checkmate.
PEOPLE...THIS IS SANTA CLUAS...HO HO HO HO HO HO...MERRY XMAS.
I've been watching my brother Charlie down there in South Bend..and I feel for him..so I'm going to get him the best xmas gift ever...
I'm gonna give him a big fat payout...so you little boys and girls can believe again and have a real coach.
I'm gonna take to Chucky...that's the lil nickname I gave him...he's getting bored over there in Tampa and his father was a coach under my good friend Dan Devine...
So Let me talk to Chucky..er I mean Jon and see If I can snatch him before tne Volunteers get him...I heard whispers that the people down in Knoxville want him real bad..because he was a grad assistant coach and his wife was a cheerleader for the vols back in the 90's.
So let me work my magic..and hopefully if you boys and girls are especially good, I'll have Rudolph bring you a real coach
HO HO HO HO HO HO HO HO HO
Hey Angry Goof,
you did not attend BC, but "eagle" is part of your username. are you a Philly Eagles fan, or? please, entertain us. i just read a few of your posts-do not quite get your point about H vs Brown ranking, then trying to equivocate the ND vs BC clear gap is US News. Brown is not H. BC is not ND, nor is it even G'Town. All good schools, but doubt the majority of applicants would probably do any better than the wait-list at the higher ranked institutions (as mentioned). Checkmate? About what...ok, so ND is have an average year at best, think we all concede that, but believe the outlier in your rant is the school ranking you seem to be now fixated on. BC is probably Villanova though with a slightly better sports heritage/program. BC is not ND, academically, nor even G'Town. in fact, BC is not even as good as Tufts academically, to be honest about it.
BC is Notre Dame as far as academic prestige-lol. am from the midwest and went to Northwestern, so a bit unbiased. i can tell you, virtually nobody would put Boston C in same league as Notre Dame as far as academics and average applicants. is this person from mars? agree with other posts, please get the vaudville hook, or whatever, for this post/er. do agree, BC is Villanova, both very good schools.
Boy you guys are dumber than I thought. Here is my point. LISTEN. There is not a big enough academic disctinction between any of these schools to be even mentioning it, OK? Your dopey ND brethren are the ones that started talking about academic inferiority when I brought up how bad the football program is. OK? Are we all up to speed now? The points concern football - ND cannot compete with BC right now. They are a program in decline. They will never get back to where they once were. They should aspire to be where BC is right now, because that is about as far as a small, academically-oriented non-state school can go, even one with ND's (ancient) history. That is the point. OK? All the boys and girls understand now? Maybe a show of hands? Yeeeesh.
uh buehler,
that is the point, angry beagle. for ND to aspire to BC football, would be to say that the ingredients are the same, when it may be the "c"ook ("c"oach/ing) that is the potential issue. clearly, ND is still getting top recruits, is BC? the choice many of the recruits make is balancing the academics/athletics of a given college. and again, BC is not ND, in this case. hence (stay with me), do not want to lose you and have this be anti-climatic for all to enjoy here, you infer ND is BC by stating that's what ND should strive for when the recruits/academics are entirely different. the only thing you need to check, mate, is your intellect. oh, i think the ivy h vs brown thing was to say that all ivies are the same and that the notional value (gap ranking places) do not mean anything, just like the nd vsbc gap. the only thing true is that brown is not harvard and the clear gap is similr to nd vs bc.
If you want to shut Angry Eagle up don't even respond back to his posts. Ignore it. On the other hand, we shouldn't be surprised that people are taking shots at us. I'm an alum and a die hard fan. I love the school to death. However, facts are facts. Right now we're not a very good football team. I like Weis' cockiness and I think it was a good lift for the program, but it shouldn't be the staple of the program. If he can't motivate the troops to play with some guts, then hire talented, proven, upbeat coaches who will put their feet to the fire. I forget who mentioned our offense being potent next year and our defense being a concern, but sad to say, but I'm comfortable with our defense. Our offense looks shaky. It starts at the Oline and Latina needs to be replaced ASAP. Also, I think Parmalee should work with the WRs. Tate and Floyd are doing well out of sheer athletic ability. But you can't just run Go/Fade routes all the time. They need work on their release and separation and I don't think Ianello can coach that. Put him in operations and let him recruit. Besides all that, I'm really concerned about the psyche of this team. They lack consistency which is a product of not being focused. They're not playing with passion or with plain ole guts. There's no mean streak in them. Lastly, as fans, alums, even the coaches and players need to humble themselves. It's good to have pride, but times are different. We don't strike fear in our opponents anymore. We're not respected like we used to be. We still expect that because we are ND, the wins are given to us and that our opponents will fold at the sight of us. This team needs to take the approach that they can't rely on the name and past accomplishments. They need to work at it and earn back the respect that we deserve. I like Weis' confidence and boldness, but now it's coming off as being brash, self-serving and arrogant. We have nothing to be arrogant about right now. As humble as Lou was, his teams came out firing. He wouldn't have called out his first unit being up 27-7. Even then, a touchdown by Navy would put them somewhat back into the game. I'm proud of Navy. It's good to know that the future troops never give up and will fight to the very end. Our team can learn a lot from those guys.
Angry Eagle -
None of us have enough time to comment on all your "football points" because they're so ludicrous. Matt Ryan is being considered as a MVP candidate? Really? By who? Ahead of Portis, Warner, and Haynesworth? Brady Quinn in his 1st career start put up better numbers against the Broncos than Ryan did today.
Sure Tim Hasselbeck and Glenn Foley started but they were a disgrace. Your best player had to run to Canada when he couldn't cut it and then lost his job to a career backup in Buffalo.
Again, no one cares about Boston College. The legacy of BC fans is those ugly yellow "super fans" t-shirts you clowns wear before the games. The only reason I bother replying is because I find your ignorance so entertaining.
By the way, I would love to know what school you graduated from and the year...and what you've accomplished since graduation. You seem like such a wealth of knowledge. Do you get Bernanke coffee during the day or wax Paulson's head as he drives the country down the tubes? God bless Ivy colleges LOL
-Ray
Weis is a freaking joke
pulling out our starters? what on god's green earth are you thinking?
I respect the troops, my father was a vietnam vet..trust me..I know what it means to be loyal to our armed forces...
But man..we needed a KNOCK OUT kick ass victory..and we were almost there...
what the hell is this guy thinking?
Lets get JON GRUDEN..i heard on espn today that Tennessee is gonna go after him..
Lets not make another Urban meyer debacle...open up the check book and do whatever it takes..
Hell, i'll put in 100.oo myself
IRISH LADD
BC undergrads take multiple choice final exams (not sure about their grad school). Case closed, time to move on.
BIG MAC
Not only is Angry Eagle a complete idiot, he's a fraud and ashamed to be a BC grad. Check out his blog at http://angryeagle.blogspot.com/, which is is subtitled, 'The insightful sports rants of a Boston College alum who has not been wrong about anything since 1983 (high school geometry exam).' Can you blame him? Who would to admit to being a BC grad? Typical...wishes he was any ivy league grad and wishes he went to a school that is relevant. Go back to your own blog jackass.
Ray, looks like you don't follow the NFL, so here's a quick refresher course. Matt Hasselbeck has been a perennial pro-bowler. Glenn Foley started for 4 years or so w/the Jets. Doug Flutie is a legend and will waltz into the HOF. Matt Ryan looks like the next great QB, and will garner MVP votes if the Falcons make the playoffs (they had some issues last year in case you were in Siberia). In contrast, Rick Mirer proved to be an overhyped bust (are we picking up on a theme here?), and Brady Quinn has started exactly one pro game after an overhyped career that 20 something NFL teams didn't buy.
But we digress, the point is your team. It just is not very good at football. On the other hand, it is very, very good at sucking. If there were a national championship for sucking, they would indeed be contenders. This year, next year, and beyond. Your knee-jerk fire the coach reaction to the continued mediocrity is hilarious. Hilarious!
Can't argue you with you on ND being appealing. There are many people like me tuning in each week and yelling "The Emperor Has No Clothes" at the TV, which drives ratings up and makes the Irish the darlings of bowl selection committees throughout the land. But isn;t that a case of careful what you wish for? I mean, you go to bowl and face REAL teams, and get taken to the woodshed time and again and end your seasons with a blowout. But yes, you are right, I concede on the appeal of ND over BC. You "win" there. Congratulations, I know that means a lot to you.
I am looking forward to next year's beatdown at the hands of lil ol, can't spell potato BC, followed by the unilateral discontinuance of the series by your new AD. After all, as the saying going in ND's administration, "if you can't beat 'em, don't schedule 'em" [never to be said above a whisper].
PS: I am Ivy undergrad, just picked up a grad degree from BC
Wow, wish we could talk Notre Dame football and not what school EagleNose has been to.
Of course, it may actually be a better read than the poor excuse of a team we have.
Just sayin'.
OK boys, I've had my fun urinating on your territory, taking your women, and generally smacking you down in my role as the Alpha male. I think I'm going to move on to the blog at Tomahawknation and do the same. Pretty sure the 'Noles bloggers won't be bringing up all these boring academic arguments, they don't have the same insecurities about their place in the academic world as you folks do.
Keep the faith, though, I may circle back after your loss to Syracuse.
Peace out.
From Angry Eagle PS: I am Ivy undergrad, just picked up a grad degree from BC
Of course you are and you have your doctorate from Oxford. Seriously...write a better application essay and go back to whatever site BC grads go to hope that anyone cares about their school, athletics or job applications.
I think Angry Eagle...is the perfect tonic to take us domers away from the real problem..
We are getting top talent...and to this end..I applaud CW...but to be honest...I feel as though he can not in all honesty coach these men...he simply cant.
I am an alum..and it breaks my heart to see this team underacheive EACH AND EVERY WEEK.
JC hasnt been the same since the NC pick off to start the second half..and the team as a whole...coasted and didnt go for the throat after leading by two td's against pitt.
and we almost let Navy back into the game..and to be honest..they almost pulled it out.
I think that every possession should be END ZONE..and that's simply not our mentality...
we were only up by 20 pts...and Navy is very privy to comebacks...this is a team full of heart..which is exactly what WE ARE MISSING..and there's only one person to blame..
THE COACH..
It's so clear and evident...people...we have to cut this guy loose..nows the time...
He's going to hurt us worse than TY...
WHY DID LOU HAVE TO GO? We would have 2 to 3 more NC's and be BCS bowl baby every year
Please come back LOU
IRISH LADD CLASS OF 95
wait! angry eagle's fav movies are scareface and THE SOUND OF MUSIC??? lol. i took your posts as semi-serious until i saw that! do you dress up in one of those lederhosen made from cutrians when you watch it??? man, go away. go very far away. want a whack-job.
What's this, I though Belichick was a CW guy?
Florida coach Urban Meyer checked the messages on his cell phone late Saturday night and was surprised by one in particular.
New England Patriots coach Bill Belichick had called Meyer shortly after the No. 4 Gators blasted No. 25 South Carolina 56-6 on Saturday.
"Just make sure you stay on top of them," Belichick advised Meyer. "They're going to be hearing a lot."
We better stay with Charlie...top notch big name coaches do not have Notre Dame on their list of places to go. They want the warm climate jobs. Remember, CW was not one our top 3 choices. Sure, we overpaid him and one thing one do have is money. Now if we could just use our so called superior intellect and do something smart...like move Notre Dame to Southern California.
Shame on Charlie for putting in the second string with eight minutes left in the game. ND needed a very decisive win...not just a win. Did he forget that we have lost two games where we were up by more than two possesions???
LOUD NOISES!!!!
Seriously, everyone needs to chill out. If, by the grace of god/power of grayskull we beat USC, this place is going to explode with joy. So just hope it happens. We're not as bad as our record indicates, and there is very clearly a high ceiling to whee we can go.
I finally realized that George O'Leary has been posting under the alias "Angry Eagle". How else could you explain the number of holes in his resume?
Cheers,
Ray
P.S. Matt & Tim Hasselbeck are different players. Glenn Foley started a total of 9 games, winning 2 of them.
Yep now's the time.
Let's fire Weis now because we have master motivational coaches lining up to take his job. Strike while the iron's hot!! It's a good thing those brilliant coaches are lining up to take the job at ND because I was afraid that they would be scared off at the fact that we only give our coaches 3-4 years to win a national championship and fully develop every recruit to their maximum potential. You guys are right, now's the time. What a fool I was!!
To see that marching band walking across campus at 8 o’clock in the morning, to look up and see Touchdown Jesus and the Golden Dome, to feel Rockne’s ghost, the best word I can use to describe it is chilling. Every time I see Notre Dame on TV, it gives me goose bumps
JON GRUDEN (REAL QUOTE)
Speaking as a strict Non-Notre Dame person, I whole heartedly endorse Coach Weis to continue for as long as humanly possible. The thought of ND actually hiring a real coach scares me with the recruits you have. Please keep Charlie.
Yep now's the time.
Let's fire Weis now because we have master motivational coaches lining up to take his job. Strike while the iron's hot!! It's a good thing those brilliant coaches are lining up to take the job at ND because I was afraid that they would be scared off at the fact that we only give our coaches 3-4 years to win a national championship and fully develop every recruit to their maximum potential. You guys are right, now's the time. What a fool I was!!
You start throwing around the money you gave Charlie ($4M/yr), I bet you'd be surprised at the interest you would get.
Just sayin'!
A fan from the last game mentioned that he was surprised at all the alcohol drinking going on on-campus in the parking areas but that the stadium as strict. The way I explained it was the ND parking is like paying a cover charge to a BYOB tavern and the ticket prices were the cover charge for the headline act. I am still surprised in this day and age that ND still even allows alcohol on campus they way they do. The possible lawsuits seem like they should just move the tailgating off campus. Oh well. My beloved ND has changed with age...and not look better for it no matter how much makeup they cake on. It isn't my ND anymore....so sad.
I haven't read all the posts, but 2things from this article stick out to me. The first is the "bad call" at the one. That was a catch. The receiver does NOT have to have his whole foot on the ground inbound for a catch to occur. Think back to MSU in 2002 when Plaxico Burris toe-tapped the back of the end zone for a score.
The second point is that one year will make a HUGE difference - especially for the freshmen. It took one year for Clausen to learn the offense. In one year Golden Tate has become a star. In one year the O-Line learned how to pick up a blitz. In one year the defense went from getting the ball shoved down their throat by Navy to actually dominating them.
to the last blogger...
We didnt DOMINATE navy...what game were you watching?
Dominating means to do so for an entire game...COMPLETE power and fear over an opponent...Kind of like my last girlfriend...If she didnt get her way..OUCH...
It's like changing the channel from a Sex n the City rerun to a real football game in front of a bunch of broads...They will not be too pleased.
what i'm saying it this...
WE ALMOST LOST THE GAME BUD...and the only saving grace of that...I believe is that CW would've been fired today..had that happened...
But cheer up..there's always our usual ass kicking by the Trojans.
This sucks being a domer...I wish I didnt love them so much...as an alum...it kills me to see such poorly coached players...
Please wake me up when we have a real coach
IRISH LADD '95
Well folks eventually common sense will prevail and a roar will go up from the faithful that indeed The Emperor is wearing no clothes.
This program has been in disarray for 2+ yrs. The fact Swarbrick seems to think he has inside skinny on the program from watching practice is dishearting. Any causal outside observer can see this program is light years away from being consistantly competitive - most of all true ND fans. The coaching tenure of Charlie at ND will in fact be known historically as another failed experiment much like the high school genius in the earlier 1980's. Coaches at ND without prior college coaching experience fail miserably EVERYTIME.
Until common sense prevails at the level of the Administration however, we as fans of our once beloved football program that by the way used to define college football, will have to likely suffer through yet another substandard season in 2009 just so Charlie can have his 5 years to develop talent that most teams have producing positive results in their 1st or 2nd year.
Greetings, all:
Long time reader, first time poster. My dad graduated from ND in 1949 and I became an Irish fan after he took my family on a tour of the campus in 1972. Wish I had made the grade to gain admission to the university, but I've been a loyal fan through thick and thin. I went to my second ever ND home game vs. Stanford on 10/4 (first attendance was 11/12/05 vs. Navy). The pageantry both before and during the game is remarkable. Wish they could duplicate it for the road games, but...oh well. The problem I see with this year's team is it lacks heart and cannot step on the opponent's throat when the opportunity is there. As much as I hate to admit it, BC played with heart. As expected, Navy played with heart. I just don't see it with the Irish like I used to back in the championship-contending seasons.
To Angry Eagle...welcome to the website...NOW GO HOME.
JoeIrishDenver
FIRE THE COACH!
Notre Dame is (was) the icon of College Football. A rich grid iron history going all the way back to the beginning. The alumni and school have more right to be proud of their sports teams than any other NCAA school.
But under Charlie Weis Notre Dame Football STINKS.
The alumni and supporters deserve better.
Can C.W. and get some respect back to a Football tradition that deserves to be the best.
Wow. So, basically, Angry Eagle has an Ivy degree and a BC degree, and yet his life is so empty he has to fill it by going onto other schools' fan sites to pick fights with the locals?
Angry Eagle: You have more issues than the New York Times. Three words for you: Intensive Adlerian Therapy.
The rest of you: Stop feeding the trolls.
I agree with the last blogger about this team having no heart..but disagree with the blogger right before...
DAN DEVINE didnt have college exp. and he won us a NC...or at min..he came directly from the Packers to ND...
Davie and Ty both had college expereince and they sucked...
I personally think it's the man, not the resume..
and while CW seems like a good guy...that and a 1.60 will get us a coffee at our local cafe.
I'm sorry, but I feel as though the only guy for this job...and if we dont act fast, we might lose him to Tennessee...
is...........JON GRUDEN...
I know that we tried twice before and came away with goose eggs...
But to you, Mr. Swarbick..please...please think about it...
he's young enough...he already won a super bowl..he has ties to ND as his father was a coach under Devine..
And I think now is the time...
ND used to have a tradition..of giving coaches 5 years...but with TY, we truly didnt have a choice..and just look at UW..to see that we made the right decision...
But CW has had 4...and if he doesnt beat SC..or AT MIN....at minimum..stay competitive
that it's time to go...
sincerely
IRISH LADD 95
most of talen on offense are true fr. and sophs. we have 1 tight end (true fr.) and we are8 and 4 over last 12 could be 10 and 2 and if we were a year older maybe even 12 and 0. when these kids mature they will learn to play on the road and finish off games. cw is doing a good job.
did i miss something did navy win sure sounds like it. you people don't give navy enough credit they are a darn good football team ask anyonewho plays them. and if you think we are on the same playing field as usc you are insane they are 3 deep everywhere they are loaded we are in the middle of loading up cw only has 3 years of his recruits.
sorry my friend..but what in the hell is a talen?
isnt that a claw for birds?
lets take that talen..and hook us a new coach
ps..please leern too spelle beforee youu rite onn thiss webesighte
thankk yousuus
i missed the t talent is something you could'smell if it was right under your nose or maybe a noose would be better for you.why would gruden want to come to nd when he would have to deal with little jerks like you.if you nd alums don' get what you want you think you can hold your breathe until you get it.it' time to stop acting like the spoiled little brats that you are and act like men and women not children. i can see why you are hated. p.s have you ever played sports at a higher than high school level
oops i missed the nt part of could'nt i guess i just can't type
"What though the odds be great or small, Old Notre Dame will win over all...." This was a line in the Victory March that I used to sing in the past with confidence, especially when the Irish entered a game as the underdog. It's hard to sing the phrase with conviction these days. Playing with heart comes from within. While it's the coach's responsibility to fuel the burning desire to win within each player, the players and their teammates are largely responsible for their own effort and for pumping each other up. I just haven't seen it in this team, even while I was at the Stanford game. Sure, some players led the student body in "Crank Me Up!" before the game, but that intensity lacked and still lacks for the entire 60 minutes.
Regarding the officiating....I always hate officials who step in and decide the game's outcome in the final moments. However, much of this could be avoided if the team were to put the game away and prevent the outcome from becoming a question.
I'm not certain letting CW go is the answer. Who would want to replace him? ND is beginning to have the same reputation as the Oakland Raiders as a revolving door for coaches. I'm not saying I'm happy with CW's results, and I'm certainly not pleased with having a QB coach known for his medocre play on the staff. RP is not instilling confidence or improvement in JC. Nevertheless, showing CW the door now will not result in a return to glory that we so impatiently seek.
Finally, as much as I agonize during the crummy play, I still watch the Irish and cheer them on (although my four-letter vocabulary has increased during the games over the last couple of seasons). To those who won't watch the Irish anymore because of all the issues presented today and in prior articles and postings, I challenge your loyalty as a fan. Turn the TV on, watch the game, and drink a beer to put out the flames!
GO IRISH, BEAT SYRACUSE!!!
JoeIrishDenver
victory songs don't win games how about hail to the victors only half the teams win each game and everyone has a victory song.we have no real seniors or fifth year starters. this is actually year 2 in the rebuilding.you had 2 bcs games with average talent it was brady quinn and co. on offense and no defense
This will be my last post for the season. Everyone should wake up and realize, Weis isn't going anywhere. I was hoping they would lose to Navy, which may have added too much pressure on ND to keep him, but he will (unlike Ty) be giving another opportunity. He will be back next year, so why waste anymore time talking about it.
The sad part is that I see another bad season next year, loss of some recruits and another long season.
By the way, the reminder for me on why I am so disappointed in this team and absolutely blame the coaching was watching Toryan Smith get a penalty for diving into the end zone. There is no discipline on this squad.
One more thing, can someone tell Charlie to get his kid off the field or have him stand in the back. When you are back in the top 10 and competing for a NC you can do whatever you want, but it shows a lack of judgement in my mind.
hell, why dont we let the kid coach...he might have the intelligence to not pull your starters and maybe he can work with the HANDS team.
With Hands team like that...we are in serious trouble folks.
WE NEED GRUDEN now
Anonymous 4:00pm, I never said school fight songs won games. I simply stated that in the past I used to sing and believe "What though the odds..." with a conviction that I cannot sing with now.
Curious James is absolutely right. The lack of discipline (and heart) has hurt this team immensely. Smith's personal foul gave Pitt life after the defense initially stopped Pitt's starting drive of the second half; interceptions in the red zone; fumbling on the oposing team's five yard line. Lou Holtz instilled discipline in his players. If they fouled up, he had his nose in their face masks chewing them a new digestive system, and then building them up again. I remember one game when he went out on the field and literally pulled one player off the field by his face mask after a stupid penalty was committed. The current coaching staff doesn't demonstrate an intolerance for undisciplined behavior. Sure, I've seen CW talking to players after committing the offense, but it's not working because the FUBARs continue. If the stupid penalties and turnovers don't reduce significantly next season, we'll be drinking more beer to put out the flames in 2009! GO IRISH!
JoeIrishDenver
there is no discipline on this time...its evident and we have become he laughingstocks of college football.
lets go out there and get a real coach...
I feel like I'm on the Titanic...with USC...looming as the iceberg.
This sucks.
ROFL. Angry seems addicted to ND news, 10 posts out of 122? Now I didn't go to an Ivy but my math says that's nearly 10% of the comments, doesn't BC have a page? I'd be willing to bet that NOT ONE of the posters from this board goes to the BC site except MAYBE during the week we play you (and probably because of a link to a story on ours).
It looks like you have chicken envy, and I'm not talking about hens.
This was the most disappointing loss of the year for me. Although better than last year, the team seems to be very poorly coached. Stupid penalties, costly turnovers, and no enthusiasm to burry a team that gave them one of their most embarrassing loss of the year last season. You would have though Navy’s receivers were USCs on the last scoring set of downs.
I used to think Charlie had this team heading on the right track, but now I don’t think so. The guy has no emotion on the sidelines. I miss Holtz blowing a fuse and getting in a player’s face when he made a stupid penalty. I just don’t get it.
These guys need a serious motivation session, they need to believe in themselves, and they need a healthy dose of pride. Without some sort of spark these guys will never get past a second tier bowl and the losing streak will continue. I remember being really embarrassed when Jerry Faust’s team won the Liberty bowl and celebrated. Today that almost looks as good as a national championship
"This was the most disappointing loss of the year for me." My mistake. We won but it sure did not seem like it.
I have to take issue with these two posts, that are the type of absurd, desperately hopeful yet totally blinkered views that show everything wrong with the program as opposed to the alleged positives:
"The second point is that one year will make a HUGE difference - especially for the freshmen. It took one year for Clausen to learn the offense. In one year Golden Tate has become a star. In one year the O-Line learned how to pick up a blitz. In one year the defense went from getting the ball shoved down their throat by Navy to actually dominating them."
11/17/2008 01:00:00 PM
"most of talen on offense are true fr. and sophs. we have 1 tight end (true fr.) and we are8 and 4 over last 12 could be 10 and 2 and if we were a year older maybe even 12 and 0. when these kids mature they will learn to play on the road and finish off games. cw is doing a good job."
11/17/2008 05:20:00 PM
---
1. this silliness is precisely the problem. Everyone thinking we are so much better then we are because we have won 6 games this year, and our last two last year vs. wretched teams. San Diego State, Michigan, Duke, Stanford (twice), Navy, Washington, Purdue...4 of those wins were barely wins as well...and our record of "8-4 over our last 12" is that impressive? Against those terrible opponents?
2. "most of talen on offense are true fr. and sophs. we have 1 tight end (true fr.)"
yes. but how talented is that talent? Floyd is extremely talented, but it should be clear to all now, after Navy, and as it will be clear against Syracuse and NAvy, that without Floyd, none of the other skill talent will do much. There is nobody to replace Floyd, and without him, Tate will be bracketed, thus eliminating his threat, and putting the onus on a still very poor run game.
3. "we are8 and 4 over last 12 could be 10 and 2 and if we were a year older maybe even 12 and 0."
you have got to be kidding me. so now, hypothetically, against our weakened schedule, but advancing a year into the future, we would be 12-0 in the last 8 games?
this is precisely the type of insane pie in the sky thought that makes no sense, and makes us look like delusional clowns.
there is a big difference between "maybe" being 12-0 and actually being 12-0.
4. "when these kids mature they will learn to play on the road and finish off games."
oh really? There are only a couple of real "kids" that are playing and are crucial to the squad, and those kids are Floyd and Rudolph. Those guys clearly are not the problems, and sorry, but the rest of the kids who are sophs now, are at the end of their second year in the program, 22 games into their college careers...if they do not have the "maturity" to play hard for 60 minutes, and to stop thinking they have a game sewn up at half time, that, is a fault of an immature player with no killer instinct, and a terrible coach who does not seem to care about drilling a killer instinct into his team.
5. "cw is doing a good job."
No, he is not. If he was, we would not be almost beaten by Navy, SD State and Stanford, got hammered by BC and Michigan State, and collapsed vs. two competent teams that did not even have their starting QB's (Pitt and UNC_)
The only thing he has done a good job at is recruiting...which doesn't really mean much if you cannot coach the potential into top level production.
6. "The second point is that one year will make a HUGE difference - especially for the freshmen."
No, it won't. In one year, Ian Williams and Kerry Neal have gone backwards. So has Hughes. Aldridge is a disappointment, Allen cannot run between the tackles.
What freshman are going to make a huge difference in one year? Floyd is great, and will be great next year. Rudolph will be very good next year...who else? Blanton cannot even beat out the crummy Lambert. Johnson, Flemming, Robinson...maybe they will improve,but if the improvement of most of our sophs this year is any indication of what happens, i am not impressed (Ian Williams, Duval Kamara, who have both been poor)
7. "It took one year for Clausen to learn the offense."
Completely not true. He still does not know the whole offense. He still locks onto his first receiver, which is an obvious sign that he has not fully learned the offense yet. He has only recently started to take the check down. He almost always goes to his first read, even if it is not there.
The offense is still throttled for him. Only a couple of routes are run...only 8 basic go to plays
-Floyd Fade
-Floyd Go
-Floyd Slant
-Floyd Deep Out
-Tate Go
-Tate Circle
-Allen Circle
-Rudolph Circle
it is so predictable, that when we finally play a great defense, it will be ugly.
8. "In one year Golden Tate has become a star."
he has made a couple of very nice plays against some very over matched teams.
He was completely missing vs. Navy, which means that Floyd was taking all pressure off of him by being the primary target. He also was far below star quality vs BC.
5 TD's in 10 Games does not make you a "star". He has made a couple of nice grabs.
he had 3 TD's in his first 4 games, and has 2 in the 6 since, and this is vs some of the worst pass defenses around.
SD State, Stanford, Purdue, Michigan, Navy, Washington...
We will see how he does against a top corner, and without Floyd opposite him. Nobody worries about Kamara, so Tate is the new #1 in Floyd's absence. HE'll be bracketed and shut down.
9. "In one year the O-Line learned how to pick up a blitz."
...yes against some of the worst defenses in D1A.
Too bad our OL have not learned to master the first thing you learn as an OL...to run block. Maybe by next year they will learn how to do two required parts of being an OLineman at once. After all, isn't that why they put on all the weight in the off season? To pound the ball? That didn't work too well
10."In one year the defense went from getting the ball shoved down their throat by Navy to actually dominating them."
I would hardly consider giving up 178 yards and three TD's on the ground to NAvy to be "dominating" them...they are a team who throws 7 times a game.
how exactly did our defense get the ball shoved down our throats last year to the tune of 257 yards and 3 TD's (in regulation) make such strides by giving up 178 yards and 3 TD's in regular time this year?
If you do not know that NAvy is going to run, and you have far superior personnel and don't put 8 in the box, and stuff them, then you are not dominating.
It is just sad, to be honest, that "dominating" a totally undersized NAvy OL to the tune of giving up 178 yards and 3 TD's is now considered a quantum leap for us.
I do not even know what to say anymore.
it breaks my heart to see CW jumping....for joy...after barely beating navy
what the hell happened to our beloved Irish..
I AM NOT PLEASED with this win..neither should any true domers..
lets start kicking ass and taking names..like we used to
time to become men agian and fight like the Irish...
COME ON NOW
it breaks my heart to see CW jumping....for joy...after barely beating navy
what the hell happened to our beloved Irish..
I AM NOT PLEASED with this win..neither should any true domers..
lets start kicking ass and taking names..like we used to
time to become men agian and fight like the Irish...
COME ON NOW
you nd people keep talking about all this talent. i see real talent i your fr and soph class good talent in jr class. but your sr class and 5'th year players suck don't blame cw for that.go pitt
we need to get our swerve and swagger back...
we need LOU
NO MORE EXCUSES...
where in the hell is the smash mouth football he was talking about?
GIMME A BREAK..
I'm done!
why are nd's wins against teams like mich navy and others considered winning against crap an osu beating youngston state ohio troy purdue considered great remember what happened to osu against the boys from troy
Every program that is having bad times blames their coach. Every winning team loves their players. Coaches do not drop balls, throw interceptions, fumble, tackle poorly or do anything else on the field. ND has world class facilities and coaches who know the game. Give the program a few more years to mature, then you can complain endlessly about the coaches failing your expectations. This "grass is greener" mentaliity is leading to false economies in coaching pay scales and a rediculous coaching tenure carousel which just replaces one guy with another and costs schools millions that could be spent elsewhere (maybe even on scholarships?).
Just taking a peek back in here after smearing my excrement all over Tomahawknation, and was surprised to learn that you folks are still taking potshots at me. That's not-a-gonna help your sad sack football team, fellas, sorry to say. But if you get Soundbite Charlie to convince his 5 star charges to play with the same kind of fire you direct at me, then perhaps the games against lil ol can't spell potato BC will be more competitive. The Irish just don't play hard against the Mighty Eagles, facts are facts, too busy reading their HS press clippings I guess.
Yes, it's fun for BC to play against ND, they are goofy in a harmless kinda way, and the gimmicky leprechaun is cute. And yes the annual ND woodshed beatings make the oldtimer BC grads in their whalepants swell with pride. But a well played game against a REAL team (i.e., ranked, not rank) is a lot more interesting in my view, like the thrilla we had against FSU Sat night. Even though the Seminoles are inferior to BC, they at least played hard and went down swinging against the preeminent Catholic football power in D1. That's a lot more than I can say about your moribund program - they didn't even put up a fight. They just layed down, and took their beating, red rumps in the air with a "thank you sir may I have another?" after each whack. What an embarassment. And then they "rebound" by disgracing themselves against a service academy. Took their foot off the petal cuz they didn't want to show up the future troops, so say you apologists? Then what about the ND dope who styled it into the endzone after the blocked punt? Didn't get the memo? Humiliating. Why don't you and your sorry ass team dial it down a notch and go to the playoff subdivision next year.
Laaaaaaaaater.
^^^
Don't kid yourself you'll post here tomorrow (or at least check up) you lame.
how many of you bloggers have played college football?
bc 7and 3 = great nd 6 and 4 sucks not that much difference i think
ND record of 6-4 not bad until you look at records of teams ND beat.... 3-8,3-8,0-10,5-6,1-10, and only team with winning record Navy at 6-4. Of course, Navy lost to Duke also. Combined record of teams ND has beaten is 18-46. To add insult, ND plays 1-10 Washington State next year. Impressive!
I gotta paraphrase the Ricktator (Pitino) here: “Urban Meyer, Jon Gruden, Lou Holtz, they’re not walkin’ through that door, guys, and if they do, they’re gonna be VERY old!”
How can we expect to attract the coaches like the ones mentioned in previous posts when they wouldn’t be able to recruit 75% of the guys they wanted?? The reason we didn’t hire Urban had nothing to do with money and everything to do with the unquestioned scholarships he wanted. And it really makes me wonder (Maroon 5) if the a lot of the playmakers Holtz recruited in the late ‘80s, such as Rice, Zorich, ISMAIL, BETTIS – guys that defined ND football during that era, the hearts and souls of those teams – would have a chance of playing if they were coming out of high school today. It’s true that Notre Dame has evolved since that time, but have the changes necessarily been for the better?
CW may not be the answer, but unless there’s a change in philosophy, no high-profile, NC-caliber coach will go near ND. The best thing might actually be for us to lose the NBC contract, crazy as that may sound. At the very least, it would make it financially beneficial for ND, Inc. to improve its team. That and we would not be subjected to SCc’s own Pat Haden…
Oh and one more thing: the wildcat formation should be run by G-Tate or Armando, NOT Rob Hughes!! How pathetic was that play??
Why did Holtz win at ND ?? because he accepted the Head Coach position with the ok to recruit academic exceptions i.e. Prop 48s.
To Anonymous 11/17/2008 08:52:00 PM
Wait, you're using facts and stats to back up your argument. You can't do that here. This is a Notre Dame board.
All we are allowed to do is the following:
Have one poster tell everyone to STFU and tell everyone that they are not ND fans because they don't support Coach Weis.
Have another poster come on and say that we are one play away from being 10-0. Or maybe one player, or one coach. Etc., Etc.
Have another poster or group of posters say how young we are, but completely overlook that those young guys are the guys performing. Not to mention the fact that this is Charlie's 4th year, but I guess that's a stat, and they couldn't even talk about that.
Have a few idiots proclaim Charlie Weis will lead us back to the glory days, regardless of his record (once again, stats do get in the way).
Have another poster criticize the refs, or the pep rally, or the assistant coach.
That's it, that's all that's allowed. Please take your facts and stats to the Florida board, or the Texas Tech board, or any board that still is in the running for the NC, because they simply aren't needed here.
Do the Football Program a Favor and Fire Bill Kirk.
"Do the Football Program a Favor and Fire Bill Kirk."
Why? Does he have some footage of you?
lets get CHRIS PEDERSEN..of Boise State..
he's perfect and he's just what we need
In a move similar to the recent announcement that Muschamp will be the successor of Mack Brown at Texas when Brown retires, ND has recently reported that Charlie Jr. has been named as his father's replacement when Charlie Weis retires. Charlie Sr. said of the decision, "Hell, I let him call half the plays on Offence now. And he practically coaches the Special Team as well. Though I will always have a schematic advantage over Charlie Jr., I think he is a great pick."
Fire Bill Kirk for screwing up the game day experience...he is a tool and should have been axed years ago...the admin is bad but he is the worst of the worst. Look where your donations are going to support. See therealnotredame.com for more details.
we lost our swagger with lou holtz when everyone except ricky watters backed down against miami before yhe game on our turf in the early 90's. fourth and 43 against miami we really showed some swagger then too. lou was good for 5 years then was nothing more than a media hog. go ahead live in the past i live for the future i like cw i'm a fat slob like him only i don't have his class
Charlie takes his respect and admiration of the service academies too far. It's almost like it's disrespectful to defeat them by two touchdowns. His magnanimity towards Navy almost cost ND the game.
Maybe next year Charlie will elect to spot Navy a two touchdown lead and wear their jerseys.
After four years Charlie Weis coached teams still have no clear identity. What can we expect from them other than spotty offense, spotty defense, 2 1/2 quarters of play, coaching gaffes, stupid penalties, and lack of halftime adjustments. The list goes on.
The offense looked better with less talent under Bill Deidrick. Haywood is now rumored to be out for the rest of the season. Is his coaching career at ND over? It would certainly look that way. Making Haywood the coordinator was a dumb move to begin with given his lack of experience in that capacity.
Charlie Weis is a good man but not a good college football coach. He may be good in the NFL but the nuances of the college game escape him much like they escaped Bill Walsh.
i couldn't agree more with the last blogger.
hell, why dont we just give navy 21 points next time...and then see if we can win?
and yes...I've been saying this repeatedly..why is Haywood coaching the offense..I thought CW was the GENIOUS...this is a joke.
Lets open up our wallets and get Gruden, Pedersen, Whittingham or Billotti..or even Skip Holts or Brian Kelly..someone who actually knows how to coach college
IRISH LADD class of 95
nobody wants to coach nd and you crybaby alums are part of the problem not part of the solution. former nd fan still a cw fan.you are abunch of spoiled little brats with no class. you have no sportsmanship and deserve nothing
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