No Mercy in Troy
posted by John Vannie
Notre Dame closed the regular season and possibly the Charlie Weis era with a whimper on Saturday as USC embarrassed the Irish by 38-3. The Trojan defense was so dominant that Notre Dame did not even record a first down until the final play of the third quarter. Meanwhile, Mark Sanchez led a balanced USC attack that rolled up 450 yards to only 91 for the Irish.
The Trojans harassed quarterback Jimmy Clausen with relentless pressure, did not allow Irish receivers to gain separation, and shut down the running lanes for most of the night. To make matters worse, tailback Armando Allen was injured in the third quarter and his replacement, Robert Hughes, was ejected from the game shortly thereafter.
On the other side of the ball, the Notre Dame defense fought gamely early on, but they received no help from the offense and eventually cracked under the strain. The Irish trailed 7-0 late in the first quarter when Clausen suffered his second interception of the game. Joe McKnight swept around left end for a 55 yard touchdown on the next play, and the rout was on.
Late runs by James Aldridge and Brandon Walker’s 41 yard field goal were the only offensive highlights for Notre Dame, while the defense recorded three interceptions during the contest to keep the score from approaching triple digits.
The victory, combined with Oregon’s win over Oregon State, enabled USC to qualify for the Rose Bowl against Penn State. A berth in the BCS title game remains a remote possibility for the Trojans, but its most likely participants will be the Big-12 and SEC champions. Still, the two teams that do play for the title will be very fortunate not to have faced the Trojan defense.
The future for Weis and the Irish is anything but clear. The team is bowl eligible, but an invitation to play in an established, traditional venue is unlikely and undeserved. Many people do not believe Weis can survive the disappointing finish to the season, but the task of finding a capable replacement after four consecutive mistakes is the real challenge.
In the mean time, there is not much more that can be said about this game between two programs that once ruled college football but are now light years apart. Let’s quickly review the questions that helped determine the outcome:
Can Notre Dame’s defense hold up physically and stop the running game?
Other than McKnight’s scamper immediately following a turnover, the Irish fought gamely if unsuccessfully.
Will the Irish be able to move the Trojans off the ball and run straight ahead?
No, certainly not against the Trojans starters.
Will Clausen’s receivers be able to get open against USC’s suffocating secondary?
Not at all.
Can Notre Dame avoid costly turnovers and keep the game close?
The teams had three turnovers apiece, but the Irish could not afford theirs.
Will Clausen perform well in his return to his home state?
No, but he never had much of a chance.
Can the Irish match the intensity that USC will bring to this game?
Notre Dame was fired up and even initiated a couple of brawls, but it didn’t make a difference in the outcome.
Will USC’s explosive skill position athletes hurt the Irish with big plays?
The Trojans hit a few big plays, but the game was more of a dissection than a romp.
The 6-6 record is not what the Notre Dame community had in mind this season. The most disturbing outcome was the fact that this young team appeared to get worse instead of better as the season progressed. This does not bode well for the coaching staff, but the players and the University administration must all bear responsibility for the sorry state of the program.
The Trojans harassed quarterback Jimmy Clausen with relentless pressure, did not allow Irish receivers to gain separation, and shut down the running lanes for most of the night. To make matters worse, tailback Armando Allen was injured in the third quarter and his replacement, Robert Hughes, was ejected from the game shortly thereafter.
On the other side of the ball, the Notre Dame defense fought gamely early on, but they received no help from the offense and eventually cracked under the strain. The Irish trailed 7-0 late in the first quarter when Clausen suffered his second interception of the game. Joe McKnight swept around left end for a 55 yard touchdown on the next play, and the rout was on.
Late runs by James Aldridge and Brandon Walker’s 41 yard field goal were the only offensive highlights for Notre Dame, while the defense recorded three interceptions during the contest to keep the score from approaching triple digits.
The victory, combined with Oregon’s win over Oregon State, enabled USC to qualify for the Rose Bowl against Penn State. A berth in the BCS title game remains a remote possibility for the Trojans, but its most likely participants will be the Big-12 and SEC champions. Still, the two teams that do play for the title will be very fortunate not to have faced the Trojan defense.
The future for Weis and the Irish is anything but clear. The team is bowl eligible, but an invitation to play in an established, traditional venue is unlikely and undeserved. Many people do not believe Weis can survive the disappointing finish to the season, but the task of finding a capable replacement after four consecutive mistakes is the real challenge.
In the mean time, there is not much more that can be said about this game between two programs that once ruled college football but are now light years apart. Let’s quickly review the questions that helped determine the outcome:
Can Notre Dame’s defense hold up physically and stop the running game?
Other than McKnight’s scamper immediately following a turnover, the Irish fought gamely if unsuccessfully.
Will the Irish be able to move the Trojans off the ball and run straight ahead?
No, certainly not against the Trojans starters.
Will Clausen’s receivers be able to get open against USC’s suffocating secondary?
Not at all.
Can Notre Dame avoid costly turnovers and keep the game close?
The teams had three turnovers apiece, but the Irish could not afford theirs.
Will Clausen perform well in his return to his home state?
No, but he never had much of a chance.
Can the Irish match the intensity that USC will bring to this game?
Notre Dame was fired up and even initiated a couple of brawls, but it didn’t make a difference in the outcome.
Will USC’s explosive skill position athletes hurt the Irish with big plays?
The Trojans hit a few big plays, but the game was more of a dissection than a romp.
The 6-6 record is not what the Notre Dame community had in mind this season. The most disturbing outcome was the fact that this young team appeared to get worse instead of better as the season progressed. This does not bode well for the coaching staff, but the players and the University administration must all bear responsibility for the sorry state of the program.
87 Comments:
I truly can't watch...wake me up when this is over.
If we keep CW...then I think it will mark the end of football in ND as we know it.
The guy just doesnt get it.
I just hope Cierre and Shaq dont jump ship...but if CW stays...man...after watching this team implode after the second half of the NC game...
WTF? I swear...it's like they just gave up after that Clausen pick six at the start of the second half..and NEVER RECOVERED.
Honestly....this team hung in for the first quarter...but the defense can only do so much...
THIS TEAM IS TERRIBLY COACHED...
If notre dame is going to save their program...they are gonna have to hit a freaking home run with this next coach...or IT'S OVER...
sorry guys...but fifteen years is long enough...lets figure out a way to get URBAN in here, after he wins his second nc...give him the seven exemptions and a crapload of cash...and begin again...
four coaching mistakes...is a freaking joke...
IT'S NOW OR NEVER...
if cw is kept..I'm done...
IRISH LADD
It made me sick to watch PC laugh and CW look confused - they have beeter athletes, better intensity, and better coaching. Not sure which we need to fix first
Hank the Tank
It was a terrible game and one that began ended routing for the clock.
I view this as CW's second season and think that he needs two more years to turn this program around. He did very well with what TW left him those first two seasons which proves that if he has the talent he can win, but then those senior players were gone and left the team without many experienced players.
The team traveled light, so it seemed. I could count only 60 players, if that.
What ever it takes, regardless of the cost, BRING BACK LOU HOLTZ!!!
The game went as expected, with the exception that Pete Caroll called off the dogs relativley early in the fourth quarter. With the video game numbers put up in the Big 12, I really thought he would feel the need for style points. Credit also goes to our defense for playing hard to the end. Offense was anemic as usual. This cannot be good for the pysche of the players. This goes beyond talent, coaching etc.. there is something very dysfunctional with the team. I hope Charlie or the new guy, whomever he is, can change this next year. The players need a strong infusion of confidence and swagger. The look of futility and frustration on Jimmy's face said it all.
I'm a '75 alum who attended tonight's debacle. The mood in the colliseum was one of USC fans
making fun of the pathetic play of
ND and actually feeling sorry for
the sad state of the Irish. I was
seated near the ND band who for their part provided the only reason
to be optimistic because of the spirit that is Notre Dame. The admin. must move swiftly to terminate mr. weiss and start on
the road to rebuild the program with a proven winner and a man that
ND nation can be proud of as a
representative of the University.
Hopefully, the U. won't put off to
next year what should be done on
Monday.
It's time for charlie to go. The university's cash cow needs to dig deep to pay for its mistake of making a ridiculous 10-year contract. We need a motivating head coach and more experienced OL/DL/QB coaches. We have lost the trenches and need a speed-threat at QB like the rest of the world. All we can hope for at this point is minimal defections from the incoming class. An 8-4 season may have to wait until 2010.
already wrote my comment
91 yards?
As I logged in this morning, I found it interesting that I was first. Not that I get up earlier than anyone else, but that there really isn't anything that can be added to the nation wide conversations. What can you say? ND is an embarrassment? They should stay home from a bowl game? Charlie is an incompetent fraud? Clauson is horribly overrated?
As a life long fan, all I can ask is, "Now What?" Who will come to ND and return us to glory? Who is the leader that will meet the huge expectations of the ND nation?
Well, folks: Nothing redeeming about THAT game! A complete humiliation. CW's apologists will drag out the usual BS ("We're a young team"), but the truth is that he is a fake, phony, and fraud. Give him credit -- he sure played the ND administration like a bunch of fools! Take your money and leave Charlie. Do the respectable thing for once. Think about ND and not your fat ego.
I could not agree more with your closing comment, but I would hang most of the blame on the administration. All the more because of the utterly irrational exuberance it showed in jacking up the minimums to receive a ticket application after Weis's first season. Wonder how many of those $200 checks they'll be seeing in a down economy, after two down seasons?
While I disagreed with the decision to fire Willingham, I bear Weis no ill will. However, I find I'm moving into Frank Broyles mode: I like Charlie; I'll miss him, too. Clearly, he has problems coaching at this level. But I don't think he should be fired in a panic, as was Willingham. Weis can have another season, IF the university administration is unable to find a seasoned college head coach who will step in now. Otherwise, another season with Weis is better than firing him in a fit of pique and then grabbing the best we can get on short notice.
Mostly, the University needs to demonstrate that it will stand behind the right coach. That was the rationale behind keeping Charlie after last year's disastrous campaign, and while I agree that this year's 6-6 result is far from what we should have expected, better we suffer another mediocre season if that's what it takes to get the right man for the job, than to panic and hire the best of a bad range of choices for head coach.
At what level of collegiate football would ND have to play to win 50% of its games?
Coach Weis, the time has come to resign.
As a Domer I am more than sad. What glimmer of hope existed throughout the 1st quarter of last night's game rapidly went down the drain.
I believe that Charlie has to feel the pain of two very disappointing seasons.
My hope is that next year things will finally turnaround.
Overall, I think the odds-makers impressed me the most. USC was favored by 32 points and won by 35, not bad!!
I've been defending Weis this whole season but I'm through. The man doesn't know how to motivate his players, and his assistants can't pick up the slack. He searched in the offseason for answers to his lack of success from other coaches, but he is just not a motivator. He had success in pro football because he didn't have to motivate pro players, and he was able to bring his complicated "phone book" of plays to the table because his players were professional and were paid to learn every play (and had the time). In college he's tried to duplicate that procedure but found that college is a very different game, and he can't find the solution. He's out of his element. He should return to the pro game where he is a proven success and doesn't have to worry about that pesky motivation thing.
Sorry Charlie, you're a wonderful recruiter, but you can't motivate players to excel. I'm through being an apologist. . .
From the perspective of a USC Fan, Notre Dame is is a total embarrassment. Your glory days are well behind you. Your offense is totally inept, your defense rates a D+ compared to the other Division I schools. But that's not the worst part... The guy who was going to teach collegiate football, "Tuna" Wies, is an utter failure. You guys have no idea what do to about your program and WE LOVE IT! See you next your in South Bend for your annual 38-0 drubbing!!! Fight On!
As a Domer I am more than sad. What glimmer of hope existed throughout the 1st quarter of last night's game rapidly went down the drain.
I believe that Charlie has to feel the pain of two very disappointing seasons.
My hope is that next year things will finally turnaround.
It is time to fire the hapless Charlie Faust....er Weis. At least Faust was likable. Oh well, live and learn Charlie, you should have been who you are an not some fake persona. Just weird toward the end. I have a good realtor you can use to sell your house.
I'm not a ND fan - so I want to be up-front about that. But college football needs Notre Dame. We need it like Star Wars needs Darth Vader. So please, I hope ND makes a coaching change, and gets the program back on track.
My two cents - you also need to change the path your scheduling is taking on too. Every year you would look at the ND schedule and say if they can make it through that gauntlet, you can't deny they should be National Champions. Taking the path of least resistance to reach a BCS bowl for a bag of money is not how I grew up hating/respecting Notre Dame.
And please for us guys that have been your punching bag for many many years, but always played you clean and respected the long tradition between the two schools, please write/blog your AD to respect and honor that tradition, and keep Purdue on the schedule. (it is the best of both worlds - lets you keep your schedule watered down, yet you won't catch any flak for it).
Here is to hoping both programs find their way back.
Did anyone hear Swarbrick's comments before the game? It sounds like Weis did everything needed against USC to lose his job.
I sure hope this administration can do a better job selecting a coach then they have for the last 15 years. There has to be another Paul Johnson type coach at a small division I school with a proven track record.
They should forgive George O'Leary and give him another shot, he could get it done. Anyone have suggestions?
I'm so depressed I can't even see straight. I don't know what to do - do we have confidence that the AD is on top of this?
This was another “men among boys” game. 76-3 over the past two years says it all. How sad for the Irish.
I am so sad right now. I don't know why I watched the game last night (allways the optimist), and managed to stomach it until the Irish got the first first down in the 3rd quarter. Then I decided to go to a bar and forget about the horrible coaching staff at ND, thinking the game could not possibly get any worse. It did. Starting fights in a game where you are getting blown out is not what ND is about. They were acting like FAU not Notre Dame. Also, Powlus, along with several other coaches, clearly needs to be replaced.
What about bringing Lou back from a year(only a year) to give them adquate time to search for a legitamate coach. Or what about promoting Jon Tenuta to interm head coach for a possile bowl game and then go from there?
Just a thought
I have the replacement - Barry Alvarez!
Well, the team and coaching staff embarrassed the university again. Although USC is a very good team, it is the ND players and coaches that allowed this to turn into an embarrassing rout – not USC.
Having said that, ND SHOULD take a mediocre bowl invitation against the weakest team possible. Even though the Syracuse game results show this team can’t be counted on to beat a high school team, at least they could get more practice. The Sophomores (and Freshmen, especially) need it.
WRT Charlie Weis, he's a nice guy (like Gerry Faust) but he has just shown he can't consistently win at the highest level of college play. He's still just a superannuated offensive coordinator, not a head coach.
Let's repeat history and hire Pat Fitzgerald (the Northwestern Coach). He's done an excellent job with limited talent, critical player injuries, and inferior facilities. He could be another Ara.
Um, there are only two quaterbacks out of 308 or so in college football (FBS) that have thrown more interceptions than Jimmy Clausen. How's that four national championships working out for you? Maybe you should just put that fur coat back on and ride that strech limo back to California.
John -
Your analysis is spot on. Since Weis came aboard I've been told that I've been overly critical of him, the players, and the administration. I'm glad that other people are realizing that we can and should do better. We finally showed some emotion and passion last night, but that only goes so far when you can't execute. Recruiting classes mean little when you can't develop your players.
Every year, teams turn to freshmen and sophomores to pick up the slack for departed seniors or those players leaving early for the draft. At ND, we take steps backwards as the season progresses, because while other coaches are teaching fundamentals to their players, we have a head coach who is searching for his identity.
The truth is that all of us in the Notre Dame family got a little of what we deserved the last couple of years. It's harsh to hear, but spot on. When our administration botched the O'Leary hire, there was NO ONE who wanted to coach on our campus. Willingham stepped up to the plate and we kicked him to the curb after just 3 years...and then we mocked him in the media and on message boards everywhere.
I realize that Ty totally fell on his face at Washington. Maybe year 4 at ND would've been a bust as well, but in hindsight, you look at some of the players he brought in like Brady Quinn and Darius Walker, and he deserved to get another chance to coach those guys. Worst case scenario, we could've handled the dismissal with more class. After all, we are ND.
Instead, we brought in a guy "with attitude, who gets it". I kept reading that everywhere and just laughed every time. Talk about a hire that was a total 180 from before. Weis is a wanna-be Parcells and a pompous jerk. However, his win-loss record was solid in the beginnning, so we looked the other way.
In Weis's first 2 years, skilled players like the great Brady Quinn, Darius Walker, Tom Zbikowski, and others did a lot to shield Weis's deficiencies. More importantly, though, we became Scapegoat U, tossing around really clever words like "Davieham" while blindly supporting a coach who didn't represent us well on or off the field. As 2006 progressed, it became very apparent that our team's execution was getting worse as we needed Quinn and Samardzija to bail us out against a mediocre UCLA squad. This was a frightening prospect since we were starting mostly upper classmen. In hindsight, it just served as foreshadowing for the 2007 and 2008 seasons.
The "schematic advantage" Weis talked about never came to fruition. Probably the worst thing Weis did was inherit Brady Quinn. Quinn was obviously able to absorb pages upon pages of gameplanning and because of his size, was able to take more punishment than the average QB. I believe this prompted Weis to continue to focus his recruiting efforts on skilled players, while ignoring the most important aspect of a great offense: the O-line. Weis also didn't realize he needed to simplify the playbook for the younger players that we've had on the field over the last couple of years, a major adjustment for a pro coach being introduced to the college game. We spent the majority of summer workouts in 2007 utilizing DeMetrius Jones for a spread offense that lasted one half of one game. Talk about a waste of valuable practice time.
Weis's biggest mistake though was giving Clausen the keys to the car. It became obvious early in Clausen's ND career that he was the man in Charlie's eyes, no matter what. However, he should've had to EARN the starting job. Beyond the great arm and family name, I've been unimpressed. He makes bad decisions and telegraphs his passes. He carries a certain arrogance which was visible from the time he arrived in South Bend with his news conference. I've seen no improvement in his play, but somehow people were willing to compare him to Quinn by midseason of this year.
Sharpley should've been given a chance to win the job. With our easy schedule and the number of young players on the offense, the senior leadership would've been well received. There's no doubt that we would've averted the Pittsburgh and UNC collapses, which would've prevented the spiral downward to 6-6.
With all that said, we can't make the same mistake with Weis that we made with Willingham. If we fire Weis, we better: 1) find a way to replace him with a top-tier college coach and 2) preserve the incoming class of recruits. Assuming that we're just going to land the next Urban Meyer without first doing our homework would be a monumental blunder. At least Kevin White isn't around this time to screw things up.
If Weis cares about his school that much as "one of our own", we should make him the offer to stay on board as a consultant, similar to what Parcells does in Miami. For all of Weis's faults, he has been able to bring in some talent, and with the right QB and offensive support, we could use his knowledge to put up points. However, as far as being the coach and leader, he comes up way short.
Regards,
Ray
southbendstallions@yahoo.com
i sat on the couch from the opening kickoff instead of engaging in my normal routine of standing for the entire game.
i didn't bother to set the tivo so that i could re-watch.
my dad didn't even bother to come over to my house to watch this one, as has been the tradition for 2 years now.
far greater than any loss to usc, boston college or syracuse is the loss of hope. and that's finally happened to me.
So where do we go from here? How many bottoms do we have to endure? It seems clear that Weis lost this team and that his message was not being heard at the end of the season. Yes, there will be calls for Weis' head and rightfully so based on performance. I don't think Swarbrick will act hastily unless he has a "home run" coach lined up. I don't presume to know who that coach is. This team has no business going to a bowl game.
In the real world (outside the college bubble) when you do not perform adequately, your job security is in jeopardy. That is true of Charlie Weis. But aside from the coaching staff, what happens with the players? a first first down only in the third quarter and a completely lost offense also says a lot about the competence of the players themselves. I know that we cannot fire the players but there has something that can be done to boost their motivation. If we are stuck with these players, the next coaching staff needs to build a team from the ground up. Probably even teach them that to win games, first downs that lead into touchdowns are a necessity.
As an '86 alum living in SoCal, it is difficult to describe the whole thing. It is beyond humiliation and into the apathy of self-preservation. You know it's bad when the USC fans surrounding you try to encourage you instead of the baiting and smack talk of a fun rivalry. The fact is, ND is not only insulting herself with this nonsense, she's insulting the fine programs like USC (and, gulp, BC) that counted on a good fight. That's how ridiculous the whole thing is.
Fish or cut bait, ND.
Charlie and his coaches should simply bow out at this point. Many
of the players should do likewise.
This team should rebuild itself around the core group of football
players who have the stomach for the job. You don't have to be a senior to develop the desire to win. Pride and determination is lacking with this squad. Obviously, too many of the members of this team don't take this seriously enough both on and off the field. I wonder how many guys
still went partying during this season despite the performance.
I think many would be amazed to learn the truth about the attitudes
that too many players have about themselves and the program. It is never too late to do a real gut check on a football team and that
check may just straighten out this mess.
Okay, I was an optimist going into last night's game. I am no longer an optimist. I could live with a Syracuse loss if the Irish learned something. I could live with a collapse against UNC and a non-performing offense against BC, but only if they learned something. Anything.
They didn't. I heard Blackledge comment that ND couldn't "run the ball." I never saw this. That is, I never saw ND try to establish the run. Charlie is a quarterback guy. He loves guys that can throw the ball. The trouble with this logic is this: At ND, if you cannot run the ball, you cannot throw the ball. Period. We aren't Texas Tech. We'll never have the fastest and most explosive receivers who catch remarkably thrown passes. We've never been that way and we'll never be that way.
We have to run the football. And, frankly, after two series, I don't really recall ND trying to establish a running game. That was a really big mistake for so many reasons. Obviously, without a running game, the SC defense could just drop seven or eight guys into coverage. Secondly, without a running game, the overall pace of play slows down and SC gets more shots on offense. Third, without a running game, the players sense their inevitable demise. In football, that is important. Eleven guys have to believe -- on every play -- they can beat the opponent's eleven.
So, in the end, Weis has a lot to learn. Truly. He's just not a college coach yet. Does this mean he should go? I don't know who will replace him, but here is what I do know:
ND has to decide what kind of program it wants. Does it want to mirror Navy or Louisville, occasionally having good seasons but mostly losing to higher-ranked opponents? Does it want to be more like Southern Cal, dominating opponents on both sides of the football? If it's the former, then we keep Charlie and we move on, going 8-4 or 9-3 with a weak schedule (someone said our schedule this year is 107th toughest). If it's the ladder, ND looks to Urban or to some other proven coach and seriously considers joining the Big Ten. A better coach should ensure more intensity, more organization, more focus and better results.
Joining the Big Ten would do wonders, I believe, for the overall strength of the program. Michigan, every now and again, has a down year. ND has had basically 2 good seasons in the last ten years. I don't think that would have happened if we were in the Big Ten. We'd get even better recruits playing against what I think (at least this season) is better competition.
I'm against hiring Coach Holtz for a number of reasons. He's been out of big-time football for ten years. He's not likely to be as focused or dedicated as others. We need a new coach.
Remember: Pete Carroll wasn't close to SC's first pick and he started 2-5 before he turned that program into a dominate powerhouse.
I really don't think it's a player problem. My hope is that we can get another good talent class and the AD forces Weis to get a good line coach such as the recently resigned HC of Mississippi State. The AD also needs to force an experienced offensive coordinator and keep CW on the recruiting and rubber chicken circuit. Then we need a smooth transition.
Demetrius Jones is on his way to a BCS bowl.
Jimmy Clausen will probably play in a bowl that won't even be televised.
BC is well on it's way to the Orange Bowl.
When is this 15 year nightmare going to end?
Regardless who the coach is next year, Claussen will have to earn his job for real! ( Do not burn Crist's red shirt/shoit this year!).
I honestly believe Charlie's health, and lack thereof, has played a major negative role in his "not getting the job done" as H.C., especially regarding the offense.
I can only hope and expect, as an alum, due diligence is being done regarding Charlie's replacement, with him on board to accept an ancillary role (Ex. recruiter/NFL-liason +/- QB coach(he's got to better than Pawlus).
Just a thought: Lou returns as H.C. with Skip in the wings being groomed, and Charlie doing what he does well; all other coaching positions are potentially "replaceable".
I used to get a kick out of We_iS ND!
(What the heck is so hard about putting out a decent, competitive ND football team?)
Go ND! but this is not who we are, I hope.
P.S. Does anybody else recognize a relationship, at least temporal, between the "downward spiral" of football fortunes and the de-emphasis of Fightin' in "Fightin' Irish", as in "Here come the Irish", "Go Irish", and the near omni-prescence of "Irish" on fanware? Or am I just really off the deep end after....?
Lastly, "No bowl game (soup) for you!".
It is obvious that CW cannot coach at Notre Dame. He himself said that ND does not need a coach who finishes with a .500 record. I am not sold on the recruiting angle, Holtz could take an athelete and make him an All-American. Holtz's players were over-achievers, they were of the type that made ND football magical. CW's are not.
On campus I would venture to say that 90% of us see CW as an egotistical, selfish, person who has a sense of arrogance that has turned many into rooting for the opposition on Saturdays.
CW is a bag fit for this great university. Send him off and get a coach who we can truely be proud of.
OK, since someone decided to mention Demetrius Jones, consider this: The man who started at QB for Notre Dame last season was the FIFTH string QB at Cincinnati this year. He is indeed going to A BCS game, but his only playing time against Syracuse was on SPECIAL TEAMS!! My point is only this, our depth compared to the top rated programs today are pathetic. And I am willing to consider the possibility that many of our "top talent" was peaked in ability by the time they got to ND.
All that having been said, it is time to move on regarding CW. Doesn't matter whether it is his fault or not anymore. Only reason to keep him one more year is to take the time to make sure we get a great fit for the next coach...
There is a trend in College Football now to name an assistant as heir apparent. Texas, Penn State, etc. I am guessing if this is the same case with Kansas State's bringing back Snyder to fill in the gap as they search for a new coach. For our money's worth, this is something to consider. We need an experienced coach with a good college resume who can coach for a year or two (or for as long as he is able to do so effectively), while this is going on we can start identifying the right coach -- the search process should be thorough and exhaustive build a good relationship and the coach has to understand what it means to be a ND head coach. We certainly do not need a rent-a-coach, ala Hessian mentality.
Let's not kid ourselves, Charlie is clearly not a good fit for ND other than the fact that he was a student and loves ND as much as any of us here. Outside of that, nothing else fits.
I would probably blame Dr. Kevin White (I've always been queezy about people insisting that their PhD be part of their first name). Let's look at his accomplishments:
* O'Leary Debacle
* Willingham -- not good fit
* Weis's mega contract
SO as painful as I am about to say this, fire Charlie! Oh yeah, send Kevin White the bill. His stupid ass 10 year contract put us in this predicament.
Maybe asking Lou to do a two or three year stint and help us find the next right coach.
-- Domer floating away in Orlando, FL
Anyone else think our AD is missing the boat on a few things?
Notre Dame athletic director Jack Swarbrick said nothing will be decided soon.
"There's no guarantee for my women's soccer coach, which is on its way to the Women's Final Four next weekend," Swarbrick said. "We sit down and evaluate every program the same way at the end of the season. We look at a host of factors, from graduation rate to GPA, and we ask how can we make things better. That's the way we do it."
Great Jack, just great. If Charlie graduates and his kids have good GPA, everything will be a ok. What don't you wake up and stop with the PC BS? Hey, I know, I'll spout how great academics are and everyone will think I care. Give me a break. If ND wasn't making all that money off football Jack, you may not even have a women's soccer team. Please spare us the drivel Jack.
Guys, I know it looks bleak now, but don't give up on your team. I have never heard so much bad mouthing both players and coaches alike. I will not give up on my team or Charlie Weis. I still think he can turn this boat around and have us in a BCS bowl next year and a Nattie in 2010. Clausen will be a Senior and all the nay sayers will have to eat crow. Please don't bail on this team or Charlie.
From a silent 1987 Alum , Sorin Member, person of few words :
1) There is no choice, the CW relationship with ND football must be terminated. "Disgraceful" is a generous way to describe the Weis Era.
2) Candidate #1 : Bryan Kelly and his entire staff from the University of Cincinnati.
Candidate #2 : Skip Holtz and portions of his staff from ECU. Lane Kiffin is bringing his dad ( Monte Kiffin D Coordinator from Tampa Bay ) to Tennessee to help coach. Skip can bring Lou, he needs to get off the ESPN TV set, he has been there too long.
I realize that people are upset and rightfully so but the administration has created this situation. The hiring and then firing of Willingham changed the whole dynamic. He was a panic hire and a controversial fire. The school fired him banking on getting Meyer. When that fell apart, they were left scrambling. Now, that Weis has struggled, the school has a hard time justifying keeping him as HC.
From a talent perspective, Weis has stabilized the program. My concern is firing him could create another scramble for a coach. Look across the college football landscape, there are not a lot of top-notch head coaches out there. ND cannot afford to hire an coordinator or unproven head coach.
People mention Kelly at Cincy and the coaches at Boise and Utah. However, if the school is going to make a change, they better have "their guy" locked up. We cannot afford to be turned down or conduct another circus hiring process.
I think the school can afford to roll the dice with Weis for one more year. This will give the new AD time to survey the landscape and start evaluating potential successors from the start of next yr rather than 2 weeks before the season ends. We would be operating with a plan rather than reacting to events.
I know it is not the best situation but it is better than becoming a coaching carousel.
Once upon a time, long, long ago, Notre Dame had a football team, and with every Fall season came true visions of glorious weekends that would count down to a National Championship . . .
~mpsND'72
Totally agree with the Ol' Bull's thoughts, but better: "No soup(bowl) for you!"
I seriously think maybe we should push our football down to the Ivy League level.
Do we want Our Lady's University to continue running a professional sports team? Do we want to continue to operate in an environment where cheating and steroids are almost everwhere and scholorship is almost nowhere.
The reason ND has mostly stayed away from college head coaches isn't because idiots were making the hiring decisions, but because they felt that almost all of the college head coaches were compromised.
The last time we got back on top we did it with a coach for whom the evidence strongly indicates he cheated at his last stop, and who also brought a lot of steroid users to the program for the first time
(1.Re the allegation that Holtz gave $200 to a quarterback at Minnesota, what possible motive would his long-time assistant coach have to falsly testify and ruin his relationship with his patron and destroy his current job and his prospects for future employment in football? 2. Re steroids: numerous Faust players in their own words said that the Holtz players brought rampant steroid use to ND. See "Under the Tarnished Dome" for quotes.)
Should Notre Dame be about the ways Jesus or the ways of the World? The only chance we have of pulling ND out of the jaws of the secular world is to en mass stand up boldly against the flood of secularization that has summerged much of campus already.
I can't believe there are people posting that Weis should get another year.
That is like saying George Bush should get another term.
Brian Kelly is the answer. Lou Holtz is not coming back and Skip is unproven. As for any of these NFL coaches you people continue to suggest, how much more proof do we need that NFL coaches cannot make the transition? Wake up.
Kelly has won two national championships and is dominating at Cincinnati. Dominating with his fourth string QB. He also turned Central Michigan into a MAC powerhouse.
Remember when the Rock and all of you "real fans" mocked me for criticizing Weis at the start of the year?
I TOLD YOU SO. Yeah. That felt good.
ND has become the laughing stock of college football. It's going to take more than a new coach to fix this. ND should start by junking the NBC contract and getting back to basics. This program hasn't been the same since the BC loss in 93.
By the way, the worst thing this school could do is join the Big Ten, or any other conference. Why would we further wreck the program?
ND is the laughing stock of college football. This program has not been the same since the loss to BC in 93. ND has to get back to basics. Start by scrapping the NBC contract.
Charlie is not staying on if he is to be replaced.
ND has become the laughing stock of college football. This program has not been the same since the loss to BC in 93. It's time to get back to basics by not renewing the NBC contract.
We had our chance to get Urban Meyer, our administration offered him such a large offer he left the building and never returned. Who's to blame for that one. Lot of people want CW to be shown the back door. Whom do you put forth to take his place. After reading all of these posts, I have Lou Holtz and going after Urban Meyer again. Right! More dumb thoughts. Not one name was mentioned. That is because there are not any big names, only little names. Unless you want Phil Fulmer. Charlie and Corwin Brown have brought in a boatload of talent. They have signed four and five star offensive lineman. Chris Watts is coming, so is Cierre and Shaq. Unless you hire a total stud, and I dont see one out there, stay the course.
If it's even possible, then it sounds right: Lou Holtz, Head Coach; Sylvester Croome, OL Coach; Bob Davie, Defensive Secondary Coach. In a great cause.
Does anyone ever remember a coach having these kinds of "growing pains" and going on to run a NC caliber program? I am honestly curious, but my guess is that it has never happened. Holtz, Saban, and Pete Carroll certainly did not have similar problems. And Bama and Southern Cal totally sucked for twenty years before they got hired (in fact our recent struggles remind me a lot of SoCal in the 80s and 90s; completely blew; lost to us 11 years in a row). And man power is not an excuse. Our players are heavily recruited. Charlie does less with more. We have better talent than BC, Pitt, Cuse, and MSU. It's what happens to them when they get in Charlie's program that is the problem. The bottom line is that ND does not need a head coach for whom we need to make excuses (like we're inexperienced, or CW is learning on the job). There are countless better options out there. I think you could throw a dart and find a better coach than CW. But there are proven winners out there. Cincinnati beat Pitt, Cuse, Louisville, and WVU and I'm pretty sure we have better talent than them. So let's just end this nightmare. I'd kinda like to keep Corwin Brown, though. Question: is CW just another in that long line of obiese head coaches who totally suck for three of their first four years, then magically turn it all around and win a national championship? Seems like an unlikely scenario.
I say keep Charlie, but replace his entire staff. ND should hire the former assistants from Michigan. Lloyd Carr had outstaning asst. coaches who all were replaced with the coaching change. I've had a tough time watching Charlie since the hiring, but his asst. coaches are not very good; oc is terrible, qb coach is a joke...
This idea would save ND the money they are worried about and not put us in another failed search for a head coach.
How many f'n wide receiver screens need to be called before you realize it's not working. My eight year old daughter could have called better plays. Biggie needs to go and we need Houston Nutt.
Go Irish!
How many WR screens need to be attempted before you realize it's not working?
Get rid of Biggie.
Hire Houston Nutt.
Go Irish!
I just don't know what to think. I'm not sure any coach can get it done consistently at ND anymore. I wonder who would realistically even come to ND.
Maybe this team just needs to hire a shrink.
I'm tired of hearing how CW is a great recruiter. I think last night proved ND's talent is not even close to SC's. Their 3rd team defense is better than our 1st team. Their 4th string tailback is better than our starter. I have to believe we have some talent in the OLine but they couldn't push my 74 year old mother off the line. Her bunco group shows more emotion than those guys. What's wrong? - coaching, coaching, coaching. Sorry CW but you just don't have what it takes.
I feel for the players. I feel like they all got conned. "Hey, like to look at my shiny rings. I can get you to the next level, just come play at ND, and all your dreams will come true". What a waste of talent. Sometimes I wish these guys would transfer to salvage their NFL chances.
I just turned over again. What has happened to the pride and respect that those who went before earned for this program? Who has the guts to do what is right to straighten it out?
I agree with the above poster who seeks to return to basics and not renew the NBC contract. In my opinion, NBC Sports is nothing but propaganda for Notre Dame. Their broadcasts make one believe that ND is a top team, week after week. The continuous use of the words "tradition" and "glory" give recruits and players a sense of entitlement to victories. Everyone is on television now! It is time to get back to basics and focus on rebuilding a program. A program without unjustified arrogance would be just fine!
In the ocean of conversation about Charlie's future, I'd like to speak to the issue of the ND-USC series and (specifically) an SC fan's assertion that "Notre Dame's glory days are long gone." Perspective on the future is often helped by a look at the past:
After this most recent debacle, Notre Dame still leads the series 42-33.
Notre Dame still holds the single greatest victory in the series, 51-0 in the Coliseum in 1966.
Notre Dame holds the longest winning streak at 11 games (1983-1993). Another way to see this is that SC was winless from 1983-1995 (1994 was a tie).
In the twenty year span of 1983-2002, USC defeated Notre Dame a paltry four times.
As terrible as this 7 game streak is to endure, (now lowly) UCLA beat USC for 8 straight years in the 1990s.
All the talk of "glory days behind them" was applied to USC in the 80s and 90s. When Gerry Faust switched to green jerseys vs. USC at halftime it was considered absurd since USC was no longer an opponent worthy of such psychological warfare.
ND will be back. These things run in cycles, and we are down just as they were. Go Irish!!
...$500 worth of tickets...and my son and I left after the first ND "offensive" series after halftime...we were so embarrassed at the mediocrity...we both took of our "Irish" caps on our way to the parking lot...
To the Anonymous USC fan crowing about how our glory days were behind us, well, I seem to remember a time not so very long ago when USC couldn't buy, rent, or lease to own a victory against ND. For over a decade, as I recall (anybody remember the Dog Joke?). But memory was never a Trojan long suit.
Yes, we're having a bad stretch, and yes, there's plenty of blame to go around, and no, I don't know who the coaching savior of Notre Dame is, our Pete Carroll if you will. I think, though, that we've disproved the notion that good players who can make grades won't come to ND. They just need someone who can coach them. Kind of like USC when they tried everything up to and including the Second Coming of John Robinson to try to break their losing streaks to us and UCLA.
But let's not go the way of USC just yet. If you've ever seen an SC-ND game program from the Coliseum, you'll realize that in Trojanland, you can endow a football scholarship the way some schools - real schools - let you endow an academic position. We haven't gone that way - yet (although I wouldn't put anything past an administration that's currently selling mausoleum space) - and I for one would oppose it. But, as I said earlier, panic doesn't look good on us. We realize that a change is needed, but this time let's think it through and work towards getting a good coach who's a good fit, who "gets" Notre Dame even if he isn't necessarily one of us, and who can recruit and develop high school kids into college players.
As for the Trojans, well, at the risk of mixing up my ancient history, perhaps they could do with the proverbial slave, riding in their cart and whispering into their ear that all glory is fleeting. It's a lesson we've learned, painfully, but nobody is immune.
i've been going to south bend since 1955 @ 5 yrs. old. seen most all but never worse thaN LAST NITE! WHAT the irish need to do is return to basics scrap the nbc deal before nbc scraps them and get some coaches and play notre dame football!! 91 yds cmon oregon state carved up the middle on the ground vs the scum lords!!
The results of last night's games did not clinch a Rose Bowl for USC, as your post claims. They still need to beat UCLA next weekend. In fact, as it was a non-conference game, it actually had no effect on USC's bowl destination.
Hey guys this is my first time posting on this site (love the website by way):
First off, Weis NEEDS TO GO. C'mon, all this "one more year" talk is just plain stupid. Weis can't and won't evolve into a decent college head coach in just one year. I'm sick of getting embarrassed. As many of you have already pointed out, Weis only had 2 good seasons because he had a small handful of good players who covered up his poor coaching (Quinn, Smardzija, Walker, Zbikowski...etc).
Sure, Weis can recruit, but who cares. Look where Boston College is right now. They're all mediocre recruits who are most likely going to the Orange Bowl. It just shows that a team doesn't always need talent to win - but MOTIVATION and PASSION, and I have seen NONE from ND this year. Clausen has gradually gotten worse - its time for him to be benched.
Weis has constantly made excuses. We get our asses handed to us from teams like USC and BC and its getting old fast. Since when does Notre Dame lost to Syracuse? Pitt? Almost lose to Navy for the 2nd year in a row! WE'RE TALKING NOTRE DAME FOOTBALL EVERYONE. I'm just fed up with Weis' BS.
We NEED a coach is understands Notre Dame football. Weis is NOT the proper image of Notre Dame. He's arrogant and stubborn - I've had it with him.
it could be worse. in detroit we have the lions. they're on their way to 0-16. at least notre dame wins a game or two.........
Just think Weis is the highest paid coach in college football and this is what we get. Amazing! He's got the talent but no clue on how to run a team. That's what you get when you take a guy that's never played the game nor run a team in his career. Wake up ND. I do give Charlie lots of credit for self promoting and pulling off a great sales job on the University. Bill Jr - NJ
you know what? how many alums were happy to dump ty willingham (sure- a lousy coach) when weis came along. how many of us thought he was the second coming? and how many of us applauded that huge contract to keep him at nd? well, chickens are coming home to roost. it would serve nd and alums well if we suffered through the remaining years of his contract. break out the hair shirts!!!
Look folks! Life is a cycle. ND will return to glory again -- it's a matter of when and at what cost? ND football in the past has had its share of mediocrity and will again in the future. We need to pick our chins up and look on the brighter side of life. Whether Charlie stays or Charlie goes, life will go on and ND football will prevail. Let's not have a heart attack over this latest dry spell.
After all it was only since the 92' season when we sniffed #1 for a week...So let Charlie finish up his career at ND. It's only 10 more years on this beautiful contract conceived by Kevin White. He should feel fairly comfortable and completely free of guilt in cashing a huge check and not delivering.
I really don't see any good reasons to keep on pounding the man and demanding excellence. We should be glad that our players are over-hyped by ND sponsored recruiting services, an acerbic and arrogant football coach who blames his players instead of taking responsibility for his ineptitude; and let's just accept the fact that ND football is no more than a shadow of its former self.
Go Irish! Play like a mediocre champion today.
It is tough to say what the answer is to the disappointmet that is Notre Dame football. I lean towards letting Weis go, but only if we have a suitable alternative. I've read the names Stoops, Meyer, and Richt in the comments of various articles and wonder what would make anyone think those coaches would even think about coming to South Bend. Let's be realistic about possible alternatives. I am not sure there is anyone I would be excited about if I woke up tomorrow and read he was our new coach. Is that a good enough reason to keep Weis? Are there going to be better candidates in a year? I guess we'll have to wait and see.
I believe the Weis apologists who cling to the "youth of our team" and "top ten recruiting classes" are eternal optimists who've lost sight of the reality of our program. Floyd is awesome, but USC/Florida/Oklahoma have three Michael Floyds. Our depth does not come close to the top tier schools. Give Weis a few more years and maybe that changes, but I don't buy it.
I think we have to be realistic about where we are as a program. A championship in 2010?!? I'm sorry to say that is not going to happen. There is a big difference between the top ten schools and everyone else. Notre Dame has the potential to be a top 25 team over the next couple of years and maybe even crack the top 10 for a couple of weeks and make a BCS, but we are nowhere near winning a championship. The '05 and '06 seasons were the best in the past fifteen years and it felt good to be mentioned among the nation's elite, but we were still nowhere near the level of a USC or Florida. We haven't had the speed to compete for a championship in fifteen years. Everytime we play a top ten caliber team, we lose by 20 points. The '00 Fiesta, '05 Fiesta and '06 Sugar Bowls were embarassing. Every USC game with the exception of '05 was a joke. Maybe we win nine or ten games the next couple of years, but we won't come close to beating USC and we'll get blown out in a BCS if we play a SEC/Big 12 team. If we played a SEC schedule the next couple of years, would anyone be talking about making a BCS? Is 9-3 to be considered a great season? The answer when Holtz was around would've been a resounding NO. But he isn't here and we aren't what we once were. It sucks, but it's the truth.
My first year watching Notre Dame was 1988. I never thought twenty years could seem so long ago and so far away. I hate thinking of Notre Dame as a mediocre program. I convince myself every August that we'll turn the corner. I hope I am wrong about the future of our program and I hope we experience a Saban/Meyer/Carrol type turnaround, but with each blowout loss and 2nd half collapse, 1988 seems farther and farther away.
Sorry for rambling,
'04/'05 Double Domer
I don't think Charlie has the talent. It's a team that has no depth, therefore the players are not pushed by somebody that could take their place. Guys, "you've gotta have the horses!" Next yr. should help the Clausen situation as he will have a ligitimate backup, that could take his place. Also, I don't know if anybody has noticed, but our running backs are not very capible of "cutting". The linemen put on all that wt., but now their slow. This team lacks speed!! Every top 10 program out there is 3 deep in players at almost every position, that alone creates heart, passion, a will to play hard on every play. We gotta get more and better players!!
I recall after last year's loss to USC when Weis intoned "enjoy it now" at the post game press conference. This was to serve as a stern warning to all the ND bashers that ND would be back and very soon. Well, for the second time Weis looks like a goat. I guess he should come out and tell everyone to enjoy it just a little longer.
When he was hired he promised mean and nasty and his teams don't even come close. We keep reaching new lows every year such as losing to 8 loss Syracuse who Cincy just beat 30-10. Anyone think Cincy comes close to ND in recruiting rankings?
I've never seen such a pathetic display of offense as I did last night in the coliseum. I've said it before but Weis is just a heavier, younger version of Bill Walsh at Stanford. Walsh took college football by storm his first year back then got progressively worse each year. Sound familiar.
If Weis had any integrity he would resign effective immediately, but no, he must force the university to fire him so he gets his mega buyout then can scamper back to the NFL as on offensive coordinator. Buyout is rumored to be 10 milion but if Weis cared for ND like he claims to then he should ask for 3-4 million and walk away.
1. For all those crying U Texas fans today, we know how you feel - we got jobbed like this in 1993.
2. It may just be coincidence and anecdotal, but I heard from two people in my corner of the world, Western Pa., a coach and a recruit father, about how arrogant Weis is on the recruiting trail. If he's this way while wooing the players, how must he be when they are tied down?
3. Those of you who say that we must get a good replacement, a proven college head coaching winner, before we fire Weis, you are absolutely correct. Never quit a job before getting another one and this works in reverse. A network said that Brian Kelly is looking at Washington; if so, he would surely look at us. He has proven success at three programs.
A week or so might allow a surprising candidate to put his name in.
Ciao,
Roman Three
Any decent farmer who saw a goat that size would slaughter it. Do the alumni a favor, sacrifice the goat ASAP.
Bring in Brian Kelly and Staff Tuesday!
Alumnus '87
Seems like that AD is not going to meet with Charlie until December 8th. I'd give anything to be a fly on the wall during that meeting.
First things first - USC should have received the death penalty for their many NCAA violations in the recent past. Why they are not on probation is a mystery. IU basketball got 3 years for phone calls. The conduct of USC and their athletic department is a disgrace to all of college athletics. The athletes at USC are professional athletes from the moment they step on campus.
Second - ND needs to tread very cautiosly here regarding the future of Weis. I don't believe that hiring Kelly as the "hot assistant" is the right move I do believe that given the opportunity to woo a Stoops, Meyer or other established, experienced coach, ND would have to consider a change. Don't say it can't be done - UNC basketball hired Roy Williams away from Kansas.
News Flash: WNDU reports ND Can't afford to buy out
Weis! Congratulations Weis apologists, the football program is done. I go to sleep this evening mourning the death of our program.
For what it's worth, we did better against a USC team with an extra week's preparation than a senior laden Ohio State team. If you look at what matters most, the score.
Sure USC makes us look puny and slow, but let's face it, the NCAA drug testing is a farce. If you had to put money on one program loaded up to their eyeballs, who'd it be?
Everybody wonders what happened at/after UNC. Newsflash. This always happens to ND once the rankings and national title are out of reach.
I would say this is Weis' first bad year. Last year was supposed to happen. Nobody's going to coach a team starting 8 freshmen missing 10 scholarship players against 8 bowl teams and going to win much more than 3 games.
That being said, if ND is too full of itself to grant a second chance, then the Spirit is forgotten.
Say you get a new coach that goes 10-3 in the next two seasons. Is that good enough? What if he follows that up with two seasons of 9-4? Won't you always wonder if things could have been just a little better if Weis was still around?
What would Hesburgh do?
Ness Monster-
while i am proud of ND's academic tradition, and maybe some shots at USC's lack of football/academic synergy is warranted, let us not forget we won our last National Championship with a Proposition 48 QB at the helm.
scoring under a 700 on the Old SAT test was hardly ND material.
i don't know. I will defend keeping Charlie one more year, to finish out his original 5 year contract.
Then, if Charlie has ANY class, and doesn't post at least a 9-3 record next year, he should tear up his 10 year contract and start working on recruiting his replacement.
I actually felt sorry for Jimmy Clausen after that game, he didn't have a chance and knew he was going to take a physical beating. In fact I even feel sorry for Charlie because he has a family and this has to be real hard on them. But ND needs to get back to being competitive and the first thing they need to do to get some of their respect back is to schedule the good teams like they used to. It is pitiful when you see them play Duke, North Carolina and Syracuse. Play the best schedule you can and stop worrying about qualifying for the BCS with a cupcake schedule, you already have enough money with that NBC contract, how much more money do you need?
This team desperately needs a heart surgeon. Any heart will do (especially when you don’t have one). A coach can only do so much ( and I am not defending Jabba the hut). The upper class-men should be the ones responsible for getting the underclass-men motivated on the field. They are as successful at that as their record.
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