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NDNation.com Staff: Scott Engler - Michael Cash - John Vannie - Mike Coffey - Kayo - Bacchus

Monday, November 24, 2008

Chasing Greatness

posted by Scott Engler
(The Rock Report) - Notre Dame has lost four of its last six games and will likely finish this season by losing five out of its last seven (2-5); this following a horrendous 3-9 campaign last year.

We’re in historically bad waters.

I just read Charlie’s defense of this season where he rationalized our current poor season by comparing it to last year’s season. And as the main "perpetuater" of theories as to why not to rush to judgment on Weis, I can say with no doubt in my mind that they do not hold water anymore.

They held up thinly after the Pittsburgh loss.

The debacle in Boston blew them all to hell.

The loss to a two-win Syracuse team has brought us to a low not seen in either Willingham or Davie’s careers. No coach has ever lost to an eight loss team before.

You can’t blame this on lack of talent or age anymore. Our offensive line, collectively, is almost three full seasons through their careers. Our quarterback is now a veteran as are our running backs and wide receivers.

This team is all grown up and excusing a loss to a two win Syracuse team based on the premise that this team “just doesn’t know how to win” is plain stupid at this point.

It’s the coaching.

I started the argument about how Notre Dame had gone up double digits on every team but two this year, so let me end it. It had meaning only as it compared to last season, meaning it differentiated this team from last season and demonstrated progress. But that’s only valid for the first part of the season. At this point, comparisons to last year are irrelevant except that for the fact that Notre Dame is actually performing worse now than it did last season as the same point. We were winning against the Syracuses (Duke) of the world last season.

After four years, as I wrote after BC, Charlie is still throwing darts and he’s losing this team and the fans.

Let’s look at this one level down.

Our offense is more disappointing than our defense right now. How has Weis handled it?

Appointing Haywood as play caller was a horrible move. Haywood, under Weis, was a glorified running backs coach. Weis didn’t give him the reigns, but gave him a set of parameters to call plays. Given how Weis’s offense has worked since mid 2005, I can’t see how he thought this would work.

I was also perplexed when our linemen all beefed up considerably in the off-season. I understand we were weak, but how can you run screens and pulls with slow linemen? When Charlie said we were going to “pound it,” at least I though we were going in the right direction. We didn’t and still can’t even against bad teams. His offense has proven easy to figure out or at least befuddle. Our offensive line still can’t block (and hasn’t been able to since 2005) and now Clausen looks inconsistent.

I have no idea what would work on offense for this team, but it’s clear that Charlie doesn’t either. And this is his specialty.

Moving Polian to special teams (after a disastrous year coaching the linebackers) where he had no experience was puzzling (except that Charlie promised to take responsibility.) To give credit, we’ve seen some progress here to be sure.

On defense, more puzzling strategery. A year after firing Minter and hiring Brown, Weis effectively brought in Tenuta over the head of Brown. So we’re running a third new defense in less than two years.

In other words, every facet of the game is in some sort of disarray and Charlie is absolutely clueless how to fix it.

Clueless.

And what’s more tortuous than anything is watching Charlie try to motivate this team. He purportedly used to motivate by threatening players draft status, now he’s tried to become a player’s coach who wants his team to show personality.

Again, clueless. Throwing darts.

Charlie tried. He made his bucket list and went after it, but trying isn’t working… at all.

Talking hasn’t worked either and Charlie’s proven himself a bit of an exaggerator, which is fine if you back it up. We haven’t.

We listen to Charlie talk about “pounding the ball” only to send our linemen off square dancing. He talks about toughness and nasty, yet Notre Dame continually loses the battle in the trenches. He talked about “putting 50” up on the board, but we’re still a pedestrian offense. He talked about 6-5 not being good enough, yet we’re 6-5 heading to 6-6.
“Charlie ball” hasn’t worked well since 2005.

We’ve waited four years for Charlie to figure this out and he just doesn’t know and worse, he doesn’t know what he doesn’t know. On top of that, Weis’s demeanor and public actions alienated the ND fan base from the start making his internal support non-existent. Why a coach making Weis’s money would pursue a public lawsuit for 600k is puzzling to me as was the decision to do “60 minutes.” Regardless, Weis has become a lame duck now. He won’t have support even if he wins at a good level. He has to win at a great level to keep support and that’s not going to happen. Weis made some poor decisions out of the blocks and now we’re faced with a tough decision.

It’s one that has to be swift but sure.

Here’s why it has to be done now.

A debacle against USC will surely result in lost players from this recruiting class, which is a borderline top 10 class as is. Notre Dame probably won’t get any more big name recruits at this point.

Looking to next season, Notre Dame is positioned for the top class in the country, but more foundering after these last two seasons will surely kill next year’s class as well.

And then we’ll be at square one with back to back poor classes that will send Notre Dame back down the chutes and ladders four years from now. You can’t have back to back bad classes at Notre Dame without setting the program back and that’s where we’re headed again.

So here’s the decision criteria: You have to have high confidence that Charlie will win big next season (and I mean 80% confidence) or you have to, in good conscience, change him out now so a new coach can save this year’s class and build next year’s.

No rational person can have 80% confidence after watching this team against BC and Syracuse.

In other words, it’s not a decision, it’s an imperative. There can be no waiting to “see if he works out.”

Charlie has to step aside and Notre Dame needs to find a homerun; someone who’s done it before. In executive recruiting for 300k jobs, it’s essential that you find someone who’s actually done the pieces of the job you’re recruiting for. No one hires a high level executive without checking the right boxes. Yet at Notre Dame, with a head coach position worth 10x that, we still are hiring offensive coordinators, defensive coordinators and coaches that haven’t proven themselves.

Such willful negligence would be grounds for removing the board in many companies. In fact, most companies.

To be sure, it’s worked for some schools, but that’s more by luck than design. Bama, Texas, Oklahoma and USC all floundered around before getting wheel of fortune to work.

Weis can leave with a lot of money and the knowledge that he’s got this team on the right track as far as talent goes.

Notre Dame needs someone who knows what they’re doing.

The players deserve it. They didn’t come here for this.

Tradition demands it.

On the job training is over.

Notre Dame has made some strong administrative moves of late, now it must make a hard, but right choice to finally put this team back on the path to greatness. I'm not advocating ND firing Weis without a plan (that's how we got here) but we need to plan for a change ASAP and make the move when the time is right.


~ The Rock
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162 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Who would come to Notre Dame? I am as big a Notre Dame fan as there is, and am an alumnus to boot. But really, who would come to Notre Dame if Charlie is fired now?

Rationally speaking, I understand you would love to have some proven head coach come in right now, but unless that kind of person is already putting phone calls into the powers that be, you're being completely irrational.

If you were one of those proven head coaching types, why would you come to ND? You would see a school that fired one coach after just 3 seasons (not the wrong move in my opinion), and then it fired another after 4 years (the first two of which ending in BCS bowls). Why would you ever want to walk into that job?

You would think to yourself "I could finish in the top 10 my first two seasons, and still not have enough good will built up to see my fifth." NO HEAD COACH WORTH ANYTHING WOULD WALK INTO A SCHOOL LIKE THAT.

11/24/2008 05:13:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Nothing to debate really. What if CW was to reload coaches for ST, OL and OC and got some high octane, high results-oriented guys in each spot. Would this change anyone's thinking about keeping CW?

11/24/2008 05:29:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

How would a loss lose players from this recruiting class? We lost one last year after going 3 and 9.

I think you are worrying too much and need a new diaper.

11/24/2008 05:30:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Notre Dame is being punished for hiring a fraud. Charlie the cheater of Spygate has shown his true character. He removed the mirrors from his home long ago. I am surprised he hasn't claimed a connection to the success of Matt Cassell for the Patriots. He sure duped ND into paying a King's ransom for an imposter. Saddest comment is that ND enables CW to continue his scam.

11/24/2008 05:38:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Nick Saban walked into Alabama after the school had 3 + 1(never coached a game) coaches. Each of those coaches were only there about 3 years. For the right price (mega $) ND can probably find a super coach. But, with the floundering economy, I question whether many people have that kind of money ready to spend. Perhaps when the market becomes less volatile!

11/24/2008 05:38:00 PM  
Anonymous SoCal Domer said...

How bout this short list guys if we could somehow convince Congress to bail out Wies' contract and somehow convince these guys to leave.

Mark Richt- Geo
Chris Peterson-Boi
Gary Patterson-TCU
Kyle Wittingham-Utah
Skip or Lou Holtz
Tedford-Cal
Turner Gill-Buffallo

I also know that Greg Robinson is available. I just found out that San Diego State Chuck Long was fired today!

11/24/2008 05:39:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I have not heard a viable plan B from ANYONE. Unless you have a plan B, I'd stop criticizing plan A. It's counterproductive.

Charlie aside, do you really have more faith in the administration to even identify a good coach than you do in the current players pulling together and winning 10 or 11 games next year? I for one do not. Their track record - between Davie, Willingham and supposedly now Weis is not good in this department.

11/24/2008 05:43:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Completely agree. Add to Anonymous comments, Why would a recruit in the stands come to a school where the players are booed and pelted with snowballs?. Charlie may or may not be the right fit, but I would say that if the subway alumni run him out, they will be lucky to get a Div. II coach. Remember, that Urban spoke to both Lou Holtz and Bob Davie before rejecting the ND job. You think that any coach wants to come to a cold weather climate to coach and be second guessed by mis-informed armchair coaches? My suggestion is that the lynchmob take a deep breath and ask themselves if they would want to coach here given the high level of scrutiny and malign. Better yet, you are a 17-18 year old looking to make your college years memorable you see an angry mob instead.

Let's highlight what the true Notre Dame alumni remember, that ND is a special place for the people and not a win-loss record. If that doesn't work for you, then cheer for teh Basketball, Soccer, Swim and Baseball teams instaead.

An Alumni with Proper Perspective.

11/24/2008 05:50:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Most people who still support Weis are ghastly afraid of transfers and de-commits.

And since I am one of those people, I would like to give him another year to prove himself.

I was not expecting much from this year. I think most fans are upset not because their expectations were high before the year, but because their expectations changed during the season as the players showed signs of hope.

I am going to remember the signs of hope as next year starts. Teams learn how to close out games as they get older. Next year, they will be able to close out games as players and will make Weis's job look easy.

If they don't, fire his ass and then find some new players with some heart. There are absolutely zero excuses to be made in 2009.

11/24/2008 05:55:00 PM  
Anonymous Rocky said...

Not disagreeing that we should think about replacing the coach, but I disagree with the urgency expressed in this post. The premise that we will go from a "borderline top 10" class to a "bad" class if CW gets retained for 2009 is not a reasonable expectation, or at least it wasn't adequately supported in this post. I don't recall U-Dub having any defections from Ty's only decent class when he became a lame duck at the end of last year. Going from Top 10 to bad would require a mass exodus of the current year's commits and that is much more likely to happen if we do fire him. Remember that Weis, unlike his predecessor has sold these recruits on the university more than he has sold himself so there are plenty of reasons for these kids to honor their verbal commitment regardless of what happens. Will there be some defections? Of course, but I don't expect to see a mass exodus. I felt the TW firing was urgent because we couldn't afford 3 straight bad recruiting classes. In this case, absent evidence to the contrary we will only be risking 1 bad recruiting class. If the powers that be decide that the benefit of having a full year to scope the coaching landscape increases our chances of landing a home run hire then I don't have a problem with that.

11/24/2008 06:21:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You need to breath into a paper bag. Stop panicking. What you are basically doing is selling your stock at the lowest point. That's not a good strategery, to use your George Bush reference.

Lou said it many times, things are never as good or bad as they seem. The truch lies somewhere inbetween.


Disagree with your comment on Defense. Defense is getting better. Agree with your comment on Polian. As for motivation, a little success will help that.

Which brings us to offense. The decision to give the reigns to Haywood with such a young team was well meaning but didn't work. Weis needs to take the reins and ride it or he is done.

Disagree with your 80% rule. Can Weis have a very good 9+ win season next year? Yes.

So stop panicking and give the man some breathing room.

11/24/2008 06:23:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Charlie is not leaving.

We need to fire Haywood and Latina. We need a OC and either a line coach or running backs coach (whichever the OC is not). They both need to be old-school types. It would help if one of them was a former Marine.

Speaking of Marines, ND needs to start recruiting a few. The young Marines play full contact football, and they know how to kick ass. That is something that this team is having trouble figuring out.

11/24/2008 06:31:00 PM  
Blogger DMW said...

ND never wins without an experienced QB, especially in this system.

Changing head coaches won't make a difference.

11/24/2008 06:57:00 PM  
Blogger Felipe said...

A good read, but I agree with "Anonymous"...present a viable plan B first before stating the obvious, even though the obvious, to some extent, is worth rehashing.

I don't think Weis is a fraud, but he's entering a horrendous patch that, like you mentioned, would lead to the resignation of any top CEO. Something "worked" in '05 and again somewhat in '06 (although I think we can all agree '06 was a huge letdown)that gave us some hope. Then Brady Quinn graduated and the rest is history.

We're doomed.

11/24/2008 06:58:00 PM  
Anonymous SoCal Domer said...

Does anyone know why Notre Dame doesn't recruit Prep Schools or JUCO players? I've been trying to figure that out for a while now. Since were talking about Marines, there are a lot of great players out of Hargrave Military Academy In Chatham, VA that we are missing out on.

11/24/2008 07:05:00 PM  
Anonymous PghIrish said...

Let's chill out, Charlie's not going anywhere soon. Need a new OL coach, and many of our problems resolve themselves. Haywood may get hired by UW, or elsewhere, so no need to fire him. Winning will fix some motivation issues, although I am tired of seeing the Irish be the lesser motivated team almost every game, especially at home. The world will keep spinning on it's axis.

11/24/2008 07:21:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

After last season Charlie made the decision to not be just an offensive coordinator, but to actually be the head coach, more like Mac Brown at Texas. After last season, Texas had to go out and get a proven defensive coordinator, now head coach in waiting. We did the same with Tenuta, and overall our defense has been better with less or equal talent to a year ago. Charlie needs to decide if that is the model he is going to follow. If so, then he needs to get rid of the ast coaches who have underperforming units, and bring a proven line coach, receiver coach, and proven college offensive coordinator. Charlie has put a premium on coaches who can recruit and not coaches who can coach or coordinate. As bad as most alumni feel now, I don't think getting a new head coach now will do anything to ensure future success any faster. Nor do I think the administration is ready or willing to do anything now. If the team continues to suck next year, it will be apparent, and possible successors vetted so a relatively smooth transition can happen.

11/24/2008 07:22:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

He peaked to early. If the BCS bowls happened last year and this year instead of the 1st two years...I don't think this would have come up.

11/24/2008 07:26:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Who would come to Notre Dame?" Who cares. This is a time for Swarbrick and the Trustees to be proactive and call all the best coaches and market Notre Dame. I understand the tone of your question, but I think the situation as far as talent and facilities is much better than when Weis took over. I now wonder if Meyer would've come to ND if we had the talent we had now back when Willingham got fired. If so, then I think we have a legitimate shot of getting a proven head coach. When Willingham got fired, the pieces weren't at Notre Dame, but now the pieces are there, so getting a proven coach who knows what to do with those pieces would be coming in a different situation than when Weis did.

Or, Weis needs to replace his assistant coaches, but does he have the push or pull to get the top coordinators. He got Tenuta, so maybe he can get a quality OC or at least a better OL coach.

Here are my prospects for HC:

Phillip Fulmer- I don't think he could stomach coaching another SEC team besides Tennessee. Plus, he has coached Clausen's older brother and was a OL coach. I think he could put together a good and proven offensive staff.

Leach- I wouldn't mind seeing that offense at ND and we have the personnel to do it. And we would have a better defense to compliment a high powered offense.

Todd Graham- What he did at Rice and Tulsa speaks for itself. He played college ball and briefly in the NFL. He has an impressive coaching resume and is from Houston, TX. He could really help with recruiting more players from Texas. He also mentored Major Applewhite. Imagine sometime down the road if Graham came to ND grabbing Applewhite from UT to become OC at ND. I know he hasn't been at Tulsa long, but come on Tulsa or ND. We can pay him more.

Tom Clements- Ok no HC experience, but he won a national title at ND, coached under Holtz and several other head coaches, so he has seen different styles where as Weis has only seen Parcells/Belichick. Plus he was a QBs coach and played the position. He has developed more QBs with lesser talent than Tom Brady.

Want a quick fix. ND should swallow its pride and try to get Dennis Erickson. I think he knows a little bit about beating USC and us.

And besides, I'm sure Parcells has a spot for Weis with the Dolphins.

11/24/2008 08:25:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I completely agree here. Charlie needs to go. If he gets out now we will have time to find a good coach unlike what happened when charlie was hired. And this time lets not make any mistakes with the guy that we want. We lost Urban Meyer to Florida because we didn't want to offer him what he deserved and he could have us in position for a national championship right now. He has done an amazing job with florida (wish that was us!). I also have to disagree with the comment that says nobody would want to come to coach Notre Dame. Now more than ever a coach would love to come to Notre Dame. They see the talent here and they would love to be the guy known for bringing this most storied program back to glory. Every guy out there knows that this school has the talent and facilties for them to do that. I dont know a coach out there other than Urban Meyer or Pete Carroll that wouldn't jump at the opportunity to coach Notre Dame. It is totally obvious. If Charlie Weis gets out now he would probably be playing the biggest part in bringing this team back to glory even though he wouldn't be the one getting the recognition. No time better than now. Fire Charlie or request his resignation (whatever you want to call it).

11/24/2008 08:30:00 PM  
Anonymous Bern said...

I agree that firing him should be considered but you cannot do it unless you have someone who has successful college head coaching experience and wants to come to ND. Firing coach after coach is a problem. If they can be competitive against SC it may give him a little breathing room. They very well may lose by 40 or 50 points. I think Weiss is a smart person who has tried very hard to make his team a success. He must realize that while his team has a lot of problems he cannot win with the play of the offensive line. It is astonishingly soft. At very least Latina needs to go. The running backs are also an issue. I realize the line does not open holes but they still seem to get knocked off their feet so easily -especially Aldridge. Allen is just OK. The offensive seems to rely on throwing the ball up in the air and hoping that their covered receivers out jump the defenders. I can’t believe this is same guy who coached the offense the first two years.

11/24/2008 08:33:00 PM  
Blogger Lucky said...

Great article. I wanted Weis to succeed as bad as anyone, but there are no signs of improvement from last year. While the wins have doubled since last year, you have to look at the quality of opponents this year. ND is playing the 91st worst schedule in the country and cannot win the games they should.

Weis has shown that he is an excellent recruiter. There is no disputing this; however, he and his assistants cannot develop this talent. The college game requires two absolutes over recruiting. The first is developing talent. This is not being done at ND, and hasn't been since Lou left. How many times do you see ND players produce next to nothing on the field at ND, then go to the NFL and have great careers? David Givens, Ryan Grant, etc. Secondly, motivating players is imperative at the college level. These are young men playing that thrive on emotion. Weis cannot motivate players. Just read the comments from players on the team (Tate) who acknowledge the lack of motivation in the locker room. Developing talent and motivating players will always trump having 5 star recruits whose talent is not developed.

As for those asking for a plan B, I will propose this:

1. Buy Charlie out of his contract. It is costing ND more in revenue, bowl payouts, donations, etc to keep playing mediocre football than it would cost to buyout Charlie's contract and pay for a decent coach to come to ND. Winning will expedite this initial financial loss.

2. Go after a proven coach at a second tier school. This means going after a Gary Patterson of TCU or Brian Kelly at Cincinnati. Take a look at both coaches' resumes. They are outstanding coaches that have proven themselves at every school they've coached. For example, Gary Patterson has averaged 10 wins a year over the last 4 years. He is doing this with players nowhere near at talented as those on ND right now. He has the No. 1 defense in the country (again) and does this with inferior talent. However, his ability to develop talent and motivate makes his teams successful. Imagine what he could do with a more talented team?! Not to mention a bigger paycheck.

Brian Kelly has won two Division two Nat'l Championships. He then turned around a terrible Central Michigan program. He is now turning around a Cincinnati program.

These are two proven winners whose teams would dominate ND because the coaches are superior, not the players.

By bringing in one of these coaches, or a handful of similar ones, ND would be able to compete at a high level immediately.

Remember, nobody wanted to take the ND job after Willingham because it was one bad recruiting class away from the abyss. Weis' recruiting has stocked the cupboard. There are plenty of coaches (Patterson/Kelly/etc.) who would love a chance to prove themselves at a bigtime program like ND. The difference now, compared with 4 years ago, is that they would have a chance for immediate success with these players.

Notre Dame strives for excellence in all facets of life. This includes academics, the professional world, community service, and athletics. This endless pursuit of excellence is what makes Notre Dame, Notre Dame.

Go Irish!

11/24/2008 08:36:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

OK, I like the string of comments by everyone here. This is exactly what I've been saying to other ND fans, don't say fire CW if you don't have a plan. Ty was our 2nd coach, CW was our 2nd coach, this proves to me that it will be tougher to get our 1st choice. The other problem is that if we fire CW, then this shows that if the next coach comes in and goes to 2 BCS bowl in their 1st 2 years it means nothing. They can still be fired 2 years later.

The coaching carousel has to stop. Give CW 1 more year.

I am also a fan who is deathly afraid of losing Wood, Evans, Watt, and the other recruits coming in next year. If we give CW until 2009, this team will be better.

I totally agree to get rid of Latina and Haywood. These firings are overdue.

By the way, Mark Richt is never going to come here. He has a great situation, top 15 teams every year, and a secure situation. Why would he give that up to have his job in jeopardy in 3 years?

11/24/2008 08:52:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I understand the ire directed at Charlie and the program overall, but why the Haywood-specific abuse? Before the BC game, I recall a much more productive offense than last year when Charlie was calling the plays. Charlie's playcallng has been very predictable since midway through his first season.

11/24/2008 08:53:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm a hockey player who thought I knew a little bit about college football, but I, for the life of me, cannot figure out and have not heard one good explanation of why this team simply cannot run-block or pass-block! What's up with this? It seems to be a lot of problems go away if that stinking line could block. Jimmy isn't harassed every other play. The receivers get a chance to run their routes. We burn time off the clock when we're in the lead. Our red zone offense is more effective. We keep the recruits because we're not in coaching turmoil. We're probably 8-3 instead of 6-5. Hence, could someone explain to me why we can't block and then tell Charlie. And soon!

11/24/2008 08:55:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

please tell me that CW gets fired unless we pull of a miracle on exposition blvd.

He sucks, we suck and the whole frigging symstem sucks.

The world is a freaking mess...only when Notre Dame Football is back to its proper glory will the world be a better place.

lets get chucky or urban and get up off our asses and start winning.

This is unacceptable.

somewhere, Knute is crying.

IRISH LADD

11/24/2008 09:01:00 PM  
Anonymous ccb said...

I agree that Weiss must go at season's end. Whether or not his leaving hurts or helps recruiting,however, is irrelevant for the long term health of the program.

The disjointed team that has shown up
for the 2nd half of the season is in
a rapid regression.

A prospective coach will look more favorably at the chance to take over a 6-6 team w/ good potential
than a poor 3-9 team next year
heading for the exits with recruits
running the other way.

finally, looking out for ND the next decade means evaluating & hiring top talent. ND certainly can pay the salary, attract the
talented coaches here with the opportunity to rebuild the most
storied program in college football. Coaches are smart enough
to figure out why CW gets the axe and Ty's record at UW speaks volumes

Rebuilding ND means being put in the same category w/ Holtz, Parseghian, etc. & getting paid alot more than they did.

CW would have been run out of USC,
Fl, TX, OK easily - that's the biz.

Finally, take a look at Mike Riley,
OSU, proven winner and probably takes his team to Rose Bowl this year - beat USC 2 out of last 4 years w/ JC transfers.

11/24/2008 09:20:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I just watched the ND men demolish a depleted Indiana basketball squad. IU got Tom Crean to go to Bloomington under much worse scrutiny, and MUCH less talent remaining. Is ND a basketball schoool now? They were a heck of a lot more entertaining to watch than the fball team on Sat. How, as a player, or coach, do you not get up for this game....Senior Day, last home game, bowl implications...were is the pride? I saw it on Syracuse' side. I passed up season tickets this year and chose not to go to the Syracuse game because I couldnt bare the thought of it even being close, let alone losing to the Orange. Ive been a life long fan of the Irish and this sickens me to see where we are now. We have too much talent to be were we are. I agree with the Rock, we need a change as soon as the USC game is over. I expect Weis to MAN UP and step down, do not take any buyout money, help the school get a great head coach, stay on to recruit if needed and ease the transition. I pray the powers that be bring us a leader, and bring us back to glory! We cannot allow this mediocraty to continue for another season.

11/24/2008 09:21:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Why don't we give Weis until the end of next year. 8 or 9 wins and maybe he keeps his job depending on who we beat and lose to. Same struggles similar to this year, Weis steps down & a proven college coach comes in. ND suffers from bad PR right now, firing Weis after USC may not be the best long term solution.

11/24/2008 09:22:00 PM  
Blogger NDalum04 said...

As a fan and alum I feel ya on both sides of the argument. However, I think the truth of the matter is somewhere in between (thanks Lou). Props to the anon poster who finally did some homework for us and gave us a respectable list of potential candidates for replacing Weis. Electronic high five to you, anon poster!

Having said that, I think we keep that list (and maybe add Urban Meyer who reportedly has not gotten over his love affair with ND and since his family is growing up may reconsider a move to South Bend) in our hip pocket and work those names through next season. I don't think pulling the plug now would give us the immediate results that some of us are predicting.

I do agree that we could see some immediate improvement by replacing some of the assistants. There are pretty good rumors that Haywood is being looked at by a couple of programs (and with the BCA's recent mandate he may get more than a couple of looks) and we certainly need some help for CW on the offensive staff. Any offense is easy to befuddle when the OL is as inconsistent as our hog-mollies have been for the past few year. I would say hire Fulmer as the OC but can you imagine that clash of titans on the sideline every week?

Who are some good assistants out there that would be willing to jump ship for not a HC position but an ND assistant position?

11/24/2008 09:29:00 PM  
Blogger NDalum04 said...

Irish Ladd my man...your posts have been some of the most entertaining over the past few weeks so I mean this with all sincerity...relax...

I live and breath ND football too but...

"only when Notre Dame Football is back to its proper glory will the world be a better place."

That's a little dramatic now isn't it? Although if Knute could have seen the lack of emotion from our boys last week he would likely be crying...I'll give you that.

11/24/2008 09:35:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Anonymous said...
He peaked to early. If the BCS bowls happened last year and this year instead of the 1st two years...I don't think this would have come up."

Probably the dumbest thing I have ever read. If this was the case, obviously no one here would be angry.

11/24/2008 09:55:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I was at the pep rally friday night and I said to my son who came with me from NE. to see the game. I can see why the players do not seem motivated by watching chuck speak at the rally. It is a pep rally chuck lets show some enthusiasm. I do not have the time to go into what all is wrong with this program at this time,but if you think one more year is going to help him learn to coach you are dreaming. We have played nobody this year and are a paltry 6-5. If ND was in the big twelve south we may have gotten lucky and beaten texas am. Other than that we would not have won a game. Sorry charlie, you need to resign.

11/24/2008 09:59:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

O whether or not charlie weis should get another year. I dont know what the administration will do, and neither does anyone else at this point. But here's what i am concerned with, i see a lot of charlie supporters saying hes just about to turn the corner and if we give him another year he'll prove that to you by winning ten games and everything will be fine. And if that is the case then ill be as happy as everyone else, but what if charlie comes back next year and wins 7 or 8 games? Is that good enough? I mean where do we set the bar for next season, how many wins is good enough? Because he improved from 3 wins to 6 now if he wins 7 or 8 does he get another year after that? If people out there say that 7/8 wins is good enough i worry that this turns into a take it year by year type mentality and that cant be good for recruiting or the mindset of a football team.

Now like i said i dont know whats going to happen, but it is my own personal belief that charlie has taken this team and this program as far as he is capable of taking it. In saying that, i also dont know that firing him next sunday is the right answer either simply based on the fact that i dont have an answer as to who will replace him. I think we all agree that this program is better as a whole then it was when charlie took over, and even though i dont think weis will ever be able to take this team to the elite level, i also understand that although it is possible that a new coach could take this team to that next level, it is also possible that a new coach could take a step back to the depths of Willingham which is scary. So its a very difficult decision and its one that im glad i dont have to make, but in the end im just going to have to trust the administration and the higher ups to do whats best for the program. And if they decide that weis and co get another year i will certainly back him and hope that he wins 10 next year, but again what if he doesnt win 10? Are we back to this same conversation 12 months from now?

My list of calls would include:
Peterson @ Boise St
Kelly @ Cincy
whittingham @ Utah
Patterson @ TCU


These are just a few names in my head that i believe at the very least deserve consideration and a phone call to gauge interest.

11/24/2008 10:01:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey Bill Snyder returned to Kansas State. Come on Lou, one more for the Gipper and for the sanity of our university! If Lou comes back, now we can wear shirts that say "Return to Glory" with more certainty.

11/24/2008 10:11:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Brady Hoke of Ball State. He can coach, (26 years experience), and he's got a great first name!

11/24/2008 10:18:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

domer 04

thanks man

I'm sorry, it's just that I can not and will not accept mediocrity...

we are both alums right?

this is unacceptable.

lets sack up..and get a real man to coach this team...

Hell, lets bring back TY (just kidding)

but on a serious note

look at Alabama with Saben...North Carolina with Butch..USC with Poodle....

I could go on

they all sucked...it was the coach that made them great

Weisboy is a goner

lets get chucky

IRISH LADD

11/24/2008 10:26:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

subway alumni are the real alumni. notre dame football made notre dame what it is, not academics. wake up. how can any of you morons say anything different..."a special place for people???" it's the football program stupid. the university is talking out of both sides of its mouth - spend $4mil a year on Weis and $26mil on new football facilities yet it's about more than football - c'mon. as a fortune 500 executive it still boggles my mind to see companies spend millions on facilities, product development, etc. and then not spend the time and money to make sure they put the exact right person in charge. we have the facilities, we have the tradition, an unbelievably beautiful campus - we need to do pursue the next coach with care and purpose. my opinion - there's a guy available right now that knows how to win here, is 11 years younger than Paterno or Bowden, and has a son that is an alum with head coaching experience he could appoint as assistant head coach and offensive coordinator and the designated future coach - we all know who he is - bring him back...now!
Mendoza MBA Alum 2009.

11/24/2008 10:27:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Great post Lucky.

Mike Riley is a decent coach but has produced inconsistent results and and suffered numerous blowout losses while at Oregon State. Plus as an Alabama grad and former USC assistant he's probably not the best fit.

Bottom line is that Weis cannot motivate nor get players to play up to or exceed their natural ability. Holtz was a master at that and that's what ND needs, not a guy who can only win when he has the "right" players and the stars are properly aligned.

ND must move on after this season. If we have an O-line chock full of HS all stars, the most after quarterback, highly recruited RB's, a top WR in Floyd and top athlete in Tate and still cannot produce or form an identity then it's time to look at the coaches.

Those people who still are of the "Aw shucks give Charlie more time" mentality would have retained Faust forever. Even if Charlie isn't fired there will be several de-commits from this recruiting class on signing day. Charlie's sales pitch will start wearing very thinly on these recruits when he continues to turn in mediocre seasons.

Bill Snyder is coming back to K-State at 69yrs old so maybe Holtz could return to ND at 70. Anything would be a step up from the current failed regime.

11/24/2008 10:34:00 PM  
Anonymous Ol'Bull'71 said...

Believe me, I hear you, and other than the "fire immediately" part, I agree. Charlie should go, absent your "if" of an epiphany with miraculous season next year, but with dignity, pride, and, yes, with our thanks, for what is a valiant effort by a good ND alum and man.
But, what is needed is continuity, stability, and reason, if we're gonna keep what strides Charlie has made, especially in recruiting.
I always thought Charlie would succeed if he stayed "healthy" enough to do the job (its a demanding job for sure; look how even Ara aged in his tenure; rumor has it Rockne committed suicide, my bad!). Well, I'm not sure he has or is healthy, certainly not enough to get the job done. I think Charlie would agree (?reason for lawsuit, reason for Haywood, Tenuata, Pawlus,etc)
One Answer: due diligence is to be done by the School, with Charlie on board, in finding his replacement, at which time Charlie steps down to accept a lesser, even if created, position for him (ex. recruiter/NFL-liason extra-ordinare). Think about it! Would make for a smooth transition, maintains some stability, softens the "buy out",and does not give any fodder to ND-bashers; the best part, it would leave May and ESPN speechless for once, and then piss May off!
Think about it; Charlie,and ND the School, ND-mans-up!
Unique, and maybe ever clever, never mind gentlemanly and even, dare I say it, Christian!
Pretty crazy huh? but we might be able to pull it off, with the right people. Who? I'm not that smart, but the large list to be considered should include Stoops, Brian Kelly, Paul Johson, Skip (and Lou) Holtz; how about Gruden or even Parcells?

11/24/2008 10:35:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I truly believe that THE ROCK..is a man of greatness...because he speaks the truth.

He, along with I, are simply yearning for the days that we ARE NOT A JOKE...

Im sorry, but when the head of your football teams calls your last years team CRUMMY...wtf?

Rockne would be pissed...

wake up the echos? how about a friggin pulse?

get him the hell out of here..

IRISH LADD

11/24/2008 10:38:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

4 words...

BRIAN KELLY OR LOU HOLTZ

11/24/2008 10:50:00 PM  
Blogger HP Texas said...

LUCKY posted,
"For example, Gary Patterson has averaged 10 wins a year over the last 4 years. He is doing this with players nowhere near at talented as those on ND right now. He has the No. 1 defense in the country (again) and does this with inferior talent. However, his ability to develop talent and motivate makes his teams successful. Imagine what he could do with a more talented team?! Not to mention a bigger paycheck."

I absolutely agree. Notre Dame needs a proven winner in the COLLEGE RANKS. The ability to motivate and work with 18 and 19 year olds is completely different than calling plays for 30-year-olds with families to feed.

A guy like Gary Patterson from TCU has proven that year after year. This year, he will be leading the Horned Frogs to their 8th bowl game in the last 9 seasons. Let me repeat that: 8 bowl games in 9 seasons as head coach of TCU. Additionally, with a win in their bowl game, this will mark Patterson's 3rd 11-win season in 9 years.

Put a guy who wins 11 games every 3 years with the talent that has accumulated in South Bend, and the possibilites are endless. Weis is not the man for this job, as we all were lead to believe in 2005. I just hope the higher-ups at Notre Dame are not too ostentatious to consider a proven winner like Gary Patterson from TCU or Brian Kelly from Cincinatti as the new head coach of Notre Dame.

GO IRISH!

11/24/2008 10:54:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

At this point replacing Weis is the lesser of two evils. If ND keeps Weis it will be terrible for all of 2009 and the decision to get rid of him will be worse, if they fire him now it won't be pleasant but it will over with quickly. It is like when you finally get around to firing someone after giving so many chances, you're like why didn't I do that sooner..... Fire Weis Now!

11/24/2008 10:56:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I would like to start off by saying i cant deny charlies work ethic, its incredible, but if the product on the field is still 9-16 over the past 25 games does it really matter if charlie starts work at 5 am? You can work as hard as you want, if you dont produce a winner i think that becomes irrelevant. On top of his work ethic I cant deny the mans incredible recruiting record. Its his recruiting that puts this program under charlie head and shoulders above anything ty ever produced. Ty was a poor coach and a poor recruiter, at least Weis has recruiting to fall back on. However, Ive been waiting fourteen years for notre dame to be an elite program again and its clear that isnt going to happen under weis. I wasnt the one who hung a banner in the gug after the 2005 season saying 9-3 isnt good enough, charlie understands the expectations of the program, well if 9-3 isnt good enough is 6-7? The weis era needs to end, and the sooner the better.

11/24/2008 11:04:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I was upset after the pitt loss, i was embarrassed by the lackluster performance against BC, but saturday's performance was beyond embarrassment. Although i've been critical of charlie in the past ive never been in the fire him tomorrow mindset until now. I wanted to give charlie another year, and i still would have even with an escape over lowly syracuse, but a loss at home to them is simply unacceptable. A coach instills a mindset in his football team and the mindset of this team seems to be that when they have a lead they feel that they are naturally talented enough to just sit back and win the game. I feel that like their coach, these players think they are better then they are, and they think they are good enough to take plays off when they have a comfortable lead and i dont think a coach that instills that sort of mindset will ever get this program where we all think it should be. Sorry Charlie, but your time is up

11/24/2008 11:13:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I don't believe that Weis is going anywhere but "on the road for three weeks in December" as reported. How convenient. I think that there will be as many Weis sightings in December as there were Cheney sightings in October. By the way, who runs practices while Weis is on the road - Charlie Jr.? What a load of cr#$ ND signed up for with this guy. Didn't even play high school football!

11/24/2008 11:21:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Bring Lou back! He is a proven winner. Im tired of excuses and mediocre teams.

11/24/2008 11:26:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Can CW lose to SC again next year? How many years in a row is acceptable? CW screwed up his first two classes and is paying for it now, I don't know if next year is any easier.

11/24/2008 11:47:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I've been tormented by this latest ND football debacle. I think that Charlie's arrogance is not a good fit for ND -- besides being in over his head, Charlie has made himself out to be proverbially larger than his true ability. I miss the good old days of Lou's confidence with a sense of humility.

Oh btw, I have from reliable sources that Charlie treated Holy Cross priests with his usual surly and condescending attitude. This again, is a great contrast against Lou's eternally complete respect and reverence for the ND priests.

Comes Monday all of Weis kool aide drinking myopic supporters can help the football team pick the splinters off their butt cheeks because it's obvious that USC will lay a good old fashion spanking this weekend.

Painful Double-Domer

11/24/2008 11:47:00 PM  
Blogger IrishLackey said...

you lost me when you said our qb is a veteran along with rbs and wrs? huh??????

11/24/2008 11:49:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Is anyone paying attention ? Notre Dame is losing even with a weak schedule. Next years schedule is even weaker. We could win every game next year and not finish in the top 10. Who cares if we beat Washington and Washington State ? They have won two games between them this year ! And one win came because they played each other.

11/24/2008 11:49:00 PM  
Blogger Joshua said...

I think all of need to take a step back and pull our heads out of our butt. Even the great Lou Holtz had losing seasons, and did we need him fired,no. Are there changes that need to be made yes, but not at the top. The line and strength coach may need to go because that is the root of the run game not happening, also a change in blocking scheme.

Also let's take a look at where we are last year was oh my god bad. You people need to realize that this year has been much better we have been close to winning 3 out a 5 loses which was unthinkable last year. Finally all of you people who have light fire and ran from the Weis band wagon if we pull off the win on Saturday night, I am sure you will be running to claim how you never lost faith.

Is now the time to pull the plug? no. Next year if we are not winning the games that we lost this year, and if we do not compete with the USC's of the world then it maybe time to go another way. If we keep calling for a new coach every four year we will be an average team forever. But what do I know I was only a fan during the Bum Davie fallout, the O'leary debacle, and the Ty shame. So yeah let's do it make the change here are some great sorry coaches we can get: Bruce Snyder, Bob Toledo, John Cooper, Any Bowden not named Bobby (either we will suck or get busted for cheating), and the list goes on and on. The grass is not greener on the other side so let it go.

11/24/2008 11:53:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

We would not be having this discussion except for three plays:
1. North Carolina - Clausen opens the second half with an interception right to the NC LB for a TD.
2. Pittsburgh - Clausen misses a wide open Floyd on a slant in OT. We settle for a FG. They match it.
3. Syracuse - In chip shot field goal range, we have a penalty and a sack and take us way out of FG range.
That's a 9-3 season, assuming we lose to USC.
In this quarterback centric offense, a junior QB does not make these mistakes and Charlie looks much smarter.

11/24/2008 11:56:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Cut him loose. Ironically, I read Charlie's book 'Now Excuses', and now it seems as though that's all he offers the fan base every press conference.

We could pursue Turner Gill as a new head coach. If he can be successful in Buffalo and recruit to that frozen north east town, imagine the 'Magic he could bring to South Bend

11/25/2008 12:00:00 AM  
Anonymous knute-hampshire said...

First, I have to say that at least the overall tone of the comments here is significantly more rational and constructive than anything I've read in the past few days and weeks. Calling the coach a fat, arrogant idiot and demanding his head on a platter after every setback without any inkling of a backup plan is as childish as it is frustrating to read. That said, kudos to the posters here for at least taking the conversation to a more mature, realistic level.

I think a lot of what's happening is an extension of the "perfect storm" that was so often referenced during last season's forgettable campaign. That is, many of us - myself included - considered last season "the rebuilding year" and kind of forgot that it's a bit more of a process than that. Not a smooth, linear process, either, but one that is fraught with maddening stumbles following hope-raising progress, and one that can be downright painful to watch at times.

Thinking back to the end of last season, I remember just wanting to look like a football team again, and swearing that I wouldn't ask for more than that. I quickly forgot that promise after a 2-0 start, however, and found myself wondering if we could perhaps be 9-3? 10-2? And what if we really put it all together, mixed in a little Irish luck, and ran the table up to the USC game? Could we possibly build the confidence and momentum needed to take down the Trojans and actually make the Return to Glory a little earlier than expected?!

Needless to say, I got way, way ahead of myself, and in the process, set myself up for a lot of heartache, disappointment, frustration, and yes, even anger as the season wore on. Imagine, then, what it must be like to be a coach or player in this situation. Without any doubt, they're as frustrated and disheartened as we are, and then some. I think that alone explains a lot of the "lack of emotion" that we've seen. I use quotations around that phrase because I don't see it as a "lack" of emotion at all, but rather the presence of some very real emotions that, if you really think about it, are perfectly understandable given the circumstances: frustration, confusion, disappointment, embarrassment, anxiety and anger, to name just a few.

Sure, I'm sickened that we lost to Syracuse, and I most certainly would have liked to have seen us win a couple of those close losses. I'm more than a little concerned that despondency and gloom have taken hold where determination and persistence would be more productive, and I'm willing to lay a healthy portion of the blame for those things at the feet of the head coach.

Still, as difficult as it has been to suffer through another season of irrelevance, I feel as though this is a part of the process, and that deep down, we all knew (well, those of us who are sane and rational anyway) that we weren't likely to go from 3-9 to 9-3 in one season. Remember that 2005 team that we all loved so much? 9-3. I hate to break it to all the Charlie bashers out there, but 9-3 is a pretty darned good season, and I don't care if "We Are ND" or not. In the grand scheme of things, it’s a good season. It's not a great season, it isn't what we all want, and it certainly doesn’t land you a spot in the BCS Championship Game, but it's also not a realistic expectation coming on the heels of a 3-9 season that looked even worse than that.

I guess all I’m saying is that it shouldn’t be all that surprising if the players look a little shell-shocked right now. They expect more than this of themselves, and they should. They didn’t come to Notre Dame to be mediocre, and at 18/19/20 years old, they don’t know how to respond. It’s also not that surprising to see the coach look a little bit shell-shocked, too. I mean, what’s he supposed to do? Take it in stride? Losing to Syracuse was a definite, no-way-to-sugar-coat-it setback, and one that took Charlie as much by surprise as anyone.

Now, for those who want Charlie out, I’ll acknowledge that there’s something to be said for the idea that it never should have happened, and that the loss to Pitt never should have happened, and that the BC game should have at least been more competitive, and that because those things did happen, he should be gone. If you view things in black and white, then maybe you’re right. Maybe it’s time to start over again, and see if yet another coach can come in and fix this thing. But just consider this: isn’t there also some validity to the idea that we did, despite some ugliness along the way, become a better football team this year? That we do have a slew of good recruits in the fold? That our young players have gained some invaluable experience? And isn’t it plausible that although the breaks just haven’t gone our way this year, that even if they had, and we’d won another game or two, that we’d still be pretty far short of where we ultimately want to be? Wouldn’t we still be hoping just to stay in the game against USC, and hopefully break the endless string of bowl losses? Wouldn’t we still be looking to next season to determine whether or not we were really on course for greatness vs. simply going from terrible to competitive?

To me, that’s what it comes down to. I won’t sit here and say that I’m 100% convinced that Charlie is the man, but I also won’t say that he’s an incompetent boob who has no prayer of getting us to the next level. Right now, regardless of the final score of the upcoming USC game, I see the risks of canning Charlie and starting over again as far, far greater than the possible reward of staying the course and seeing what happens. He’s done a great job recruiting – even the haters admit that much – so what’s the harm in letting him have another season to see if he can get it done with a roster full of his own guys? If we aren’t markedly better next year, we’re really not that much worse off for having waited, and if things do start to really gel the way we’ve all been hoping they will, we’ll be thanking our lucky stars that we didn’t let emotion and impatience cloud our judgment and force a hasty decision.

I’m not apologizing for his shortcomings, and I’m not saying that a positive outcome is a slam dunk by any stretch of the imagination. I think there are some personnel changes that need to be made, both on the field and on the sidelines, many of which have been mentioned on this board already. I buy into the idea that the team needs to find an identity that goes beyond “young and inexperienced.” I just don’t see what good it does to dump a guy who works as hard and “gets ND” the way Charlie does, blow the whole thing up again, and start over with some other unproven guy who brings every bit as much uncertainty as we’re faced with right now.

Stay the course. Give Charlie a chance to prove himself. Despite the continued trials and tribulations, I think with the team we'll be putting on the field next year and beyond, he just might prove to have what it takes after all.

11/25/2008 12:17:00 AM  
Anonymous southbendblarney.com said...

ND needs stability. As such, I don't have a problem with Weis getting another year. Shouldn't change just to change-only if the administration could get their #1 choice.

11/25/2008 12:30:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Last years team was "crummy" and this years team is "decent"? This is decent? CW is not being honest with the players, the fans or himself. He has has four years and for my money the trend is down. My gosh Ara took a miserable team with barely any talent and won a National Championship in his third year. No I do not accept the premise that we are getting better, nor that CW has the team headed in the right direction. If you look at the numbers we should not have gotten rid of Davies or TW they weren't any worse than CW. Charlie camein and shot his mouth off about all he was going to do and what was and was not acceptable. It hasn't happened, he has been damned by his own words. Let's just be honest, I'm an alum, he's an alum, most of you are too....doesn't mean that any of us can coach and it has become painfully obvious that CW can't.

11/25/2008 12:44:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Realistically speaking, CW will be back next year. My hope is that the AD and administration and Charlie himself can work out a deal to save faces for everyone -- somewhere along the line of it's not for me and I need to move on. Remember that White was actually pretty impulsive with his hiring process:

1. Flew to Rome to meet with PJ Carlesimo

2. George O'Leary without proper vetting

3. Ty & Davie without proven success record

4. Weis's mammoth contract


We *all* know that Charlie's time with the on the job training is up. The next step is how do we go about this process rationally and what makes the most sense for the University and its fans. $20 million is not throw away money like pro teams, say the Yankees.

We should also remember that there is more to Notre Dame than football...There's...There's...There's...

Oh forget it! Fire Charlie. Do what it takes, get him out of here...

11/25/2008 12:58:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Let's be extremely irrational and impulsive about the whole replacement HC process. Let's bring in Marty Schottenheimer.

11/25/2008 01:02:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

IRISH LADD wrote: "please tell me that CW gets fired unless we pull of a miracle on exposition blvd."

Nice try my friend. We'll beat SC if pigs fly over the coliseum and Syracuse beats ND. Wait they did beat ND. You never know ;-)

11/25/2008 01:07:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I heard on the sports Radio today Petros Papadakis completely poopooing on CW. His basic points are: CW is (was) an offensive geek with no interpersonal skills.

Keep in mind that Petros is an USC alum & apologist, but his point is pretty accurate: CW is not head football coach material. To be a Div 1 head football coach, you need to know how to manage people & the game. Neither of which CW has demonstrated to have what it takes.

I think that it's wishing on our part for Lou -- but realistically speaking, we made our bed with CW we need to sleep in it one more year.

Can CW honestly stand in front of the media and say I did a good job with another 6 & 6 or 7 & 5 season?

BTW, the love affair that the Media has with Charlie is all but evaporated...

In the same way that GW re-defined incompetency with politics, CW is doing the same thing with coaching.

Time to find a new head coach.


Pasadena Domer

11/25/2008 01:17:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

joshua

what kook aid are you drinking you idiot?

grow a pair...this is not some rinky dink college football team..

this is NOTRE DAME..you pansy.

Let's get some fire in our belly.

You may be a little baby who wants to suck his thumb and sit idly by, wanting to give CW another year...

HEY...WHY DONT WE HIRE ANGRY EAGLE...at least he's got some fire.

go irish..........

IRISH LADD

11/25/2008 01:55:00 AM  
Blogger DMW said...

I don't think anyone besides Knute Hampshire (I'm from NH too) has made sense. What do you think a different coach would be doing differently?

Yelling at the players? We criticized him for that. Running the football up the middle? We can't.

Really, I'm all ears.

11/25/2008 03:47:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Whether or not we keep CW or not his philosophy or lack of one must change. The talent is there but if we are going to be a huge OL we have to learn to block straight ahead and get off the ball. Most of outside runs and screens are being run down from behind.Need of new offensive line coach and coorirdinator is obvious.
Time has come to get answers from Weiss on willingness to adjust,not to assign blame to young kids.

11/25/2008 08:42:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The head coach is the most critical position in a successful program. In the late fifties and early sixties, ND suffered under Kucharich. They fired him and had Devore as a one year, Interim, coach while they found Ara. Ara took the same players and almost won a NC in his first year, and also had a Heisman winner and several All Americans that year.

Coaching matters.

ND won't lose the recuits or have poor recuiting if there is a clear plan that a big name coach will be hired within a year. It worked before!

11/25/2008 08:49:00 AM  
Blogger John said...

What would another coach do differently? How about introducing some deception into the offense? Virtually every time they line up with one back deep it is a deep handoff. Every time Claussen is in shotgun with backs on either side of him it is a pass with those backs blocking. If a receiver is in motion, they run to that side. No creativity. No linebackers being confused. The reads are all too familiar. Someone said 3 plays made a difference between 6-5 and 9-3. What about all the 3 and outs? Inept offense. I say bring on Lou & son now--a 2 for 1 to send the old man out in glory.

11/25/2008 09:00:00 AM  
Blogger John said...

What would another coach do differently? How about introducing some deception into the offense? Virtually every time they line up with one back deep it is a deep handoff. Every time Claussen is in shotgun with backs on either side of him it is a pass with those backs blocking. If a receiver is in motion, they run to that side. No creativity. No linebackers being confused. The reads are all too familiar. Someone said 3 plays made a difference between 6-5 and 9-3. What about all the 3 and outs? Inept offense. I say bring on Lou & son now--a 2 for 1 to send the old man out in glory.

11/25/2008 09:00:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

seriously? our quarterback is a veteran? Would you call Brady Quinn a veteran in the NFL after his 2 years? Our team is young and immature. Keep running your mouth, but nothing is going to happen until we see what happens with a team made mostly of junior.


next year.

11/25/2008 09:11:00 AM  
Anonymous tednict said...

Suggestions to go after Urban "the liar" or Saban are ABSURD! Lou Holtz is not coming back. That is equally off the wall. His son at ECU started hot, but has melted since then. NOTHING TO OFFER AT THIS TIME.

If a change is coming, and I believe it is time, we need to go after Kelley at Cincinnati or Patterson at TCU. They are winners, and while that doesn't guarantee anything, at least they can show they have done it. That is something Weis, Willingham, and Davie couldn't show.

11/25/2008 09:28:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

First, I admit that I have no contact with any players or coaches at ND. So I would like to know if anyone knows how the players feel about CW.

Secondly, how does the staff get along with each other and CW?

The program is now a disgrace. The schedule was weakened and we can still not win.

11/25/2008 09:38:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Charlie should be back in 09. Anything less than a bcs berth and he is gone. Latina needs to go. The offensive line can not open any holes which is pathetic. The biggest problem that I see is Notre Dame Stadium. What a lackluster fan base. Everyone loves to sit on their rears and watch. No cheering, not loud, not intimidating. Everyone should wear green and make noise the entire game. It shows unity and will pump the defense up.

11/25/2008 10:12:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The fact that someone actually used a George Bush reference in these comments is all anyone needs to know about Charlie Weis supporters. Like Bush, and Weis, they couldn't manage the men's room on a Friday night, much less a college football team or the United states of America.

I can't believe someone actually referenced George Bush in defense of Charlie Weis. No wonder this program is a mid major program these days; the fans don't demand any better.

How's that for perspective.

All year long I have been attacked on this board for pointing out the obvious, Charlie is worse than Davie and not much better than Willingham. I'll admit that he has recruited well. However, he is a terrible coach, especially on offense. If offense is his specialty than the economy is George Bush's specialty (pick a Bush, any Bush).

Earlier in the season I pointed out the terrible O line play and Armando Allen's complete lack of field vision. You Weis lovers and The Rock himself mocked me. I told you so.

I pointed out the laughable defensive line play, admitting that the lineman from Stanford was right about the constant blitzing that resulted in very few sacks. The delusional fans on this board, and The Rock, insulted my intelligence. I told you so.

Finally, I pointed out the lack of preparedness, intensity, and urgency from every player on offense, with the possible exception of clause. Again I was mocked and insulted. I Told you so.

I suggested a Brian Kelly regime was the way to go, or possibly Skip Holtz. You people said I wasn't a "true fan." How is Brian Kelly doing at Cincinnati? CINCINNATI!!! Is there any doubt that that team would blow these losers at ND out of the water? Yeah. I told you so.

Weis was a mistake. All of you out there defending him sound just like those still defending George Bush, delusional and completely out of touch with reality. Do you ever watch Notre Dame?

Like George Bush before him, Weis is a complete failure at the job he was hired to do. Let's get some freh blood, with a proven track record of National Championship Coaching, let's hire Brian Kelly.

11/25/2008 10:16:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Go after Stoops or Miles - why settle for anything lees at this point and continue the slide? Go after the big dogs and dont take no for an answer and do it right this time. Most of you guys are already lowering the bar here....DO IT RIGHT THIS TIME!!!!

11/25/2008 10:23:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm as unhappy with the season as everyone else, my 5 year old granddaughter askes me if I'm mad at the TV on saturdays. That said give the man another year. Brady Quinn and company didn't improve until their Junior year, let the kids grow up some more. If the team shows no improvement next year then we can look for a new coach. CW is a great recruiter and we're getting some great talent, be patient.

11/25/2008 10:30:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I have watched ND these past few years under Charlie and in the past even last year defended him. But no more. The offensive line stinks has for every year Charlie has been at ND. The Defense is getting alot better.

The only question I have is who can we find right now out their to replace Charlie with?? And by right now I mean A) would want to come to ND and B) is able to leave where they are at now.

11/25/2008 10:34:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well if you read quotes after last game from golden tate and sam young it seems to me like this team has quit on their coach. I dont thinkn these players any longer believe in his philosophy or his mindset and if he does get fired i bet there are less defections then you think. I think these kids love this school and they want to win and they deserve to, and guess what, charlie isnt delivering. Assuming that charlie loses to USC and the sun bowl (im sorry but if you cant beat syracuse at home i find it hard to believe you can beat anyone right now) his record will be a platry 9-18 over the last 27 games. I think any coach at any big name program with those kind of numbers would be on the hot seat. Also, i agree that if they decide to keep charlie then a lot of at least offensive staff changes need to be made, but the thing that scares me is that i think weis brought in all these inexperienced coach becasue he wants complete and total control. He wont allow anyone else to control this offense because he believes that hes the best OC on the planet. So i doubt you will see much difference in play calling or offensive philosophy if he sticks around for another season. And becasue of that i dont think this team will be that much improved next year. I mean if this team wouldve started 1-4 and then finished 5-3 maybe the seat wouldnt be as hot right now but the fact that this team has regressed from 4-1 to what will be 2-6 is scary and that shows me that something more then just inexperience is happening here

11/25/2008 10:38:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hire Mike Brey to coach the football team.

11/25/2008 10:42:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Kudos to Knute Hmpshire for making the only rational argument I have read on this entire post.
As a bona fide alum not a bandwagon riding fan I am disgraced to be surrounded by the arrogance of the other posters.
To the subway alum who posted that "there's nothing more to Notre Dame than football", that is BY FAR the stupidest thing I have ever read. What an IDIOT! He couldn't be farther from the truth and obviously has absloutely no idea why Notre Dame is great. It has NOTHING TO DO WITH FOOTBALL!!! GET A FREAKIN' CLUE!!! If you want a school that's great because of football follow Florida or Oklahoma. If you don't understand what Notre Dame is and why it's special then you don't deserve to root for any of its teams!

11/25/2008 11:15:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Charley is ok. NOTRE DAME football
would be very good, if only the
offensive, and defensive lines had
a good strength program. Remember last year when Trevor Laws made a
comment about the younger players not being in the weight room. The
offense would improve 80% if they
could only run the damn ball.

11/25/2008 12:00:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Bit over the top. Just like when similar comments were being made couple years back about CW being a "robot genius". I agree with some of the above commenters that we don't need wholesale changes, we need a couple key assistant coach changes. A good experienced running backs coach and an offensive line coach. Unless there is a front line head coach out there ready to sign on the dotted line putting the team through another head coaching transition will only create more dysfunction to already a poorly functioning team dynamic.

11/25/2008 12:14:00 PM  
Anonymous Joe said...

USC is going to hang a big fat 50 on us because they're looking for style points, so last year's 38-0 debacle will seem like a nail-biter in comparison. We are THE joke of college football. Most teams I watch would kill us. Pretty much anyone from the SEC would B-slap us like an Ivy. Oklahoma or Texas would probably score 80 on us before the 4th quarter. What's the answer? Fire Weis. Fire Weis. Fire Weis. Fire Weis. Fire Weis.

We need a real football coach. Now.

11/25/2008 12:23:00 PM  
Anonymous IRISH STING said...

CHECK OUT BRIAN KELLY AT UC THIS NEXT SAT. AGAINST SYRACUSE AND THEN IN THE ORANGE OR SUGAR BOWL FOR A LOOKSEE AT A GOOD COLLEGE COACH. HE WENT THROUGH FOUR QB DUE TO INJURIES AND DID NOT LOSE A BEAT. NOW THAT IS WHAT I CALL COACHING. THE LINE BLOCKS FOR RUNS AND PASSING EVEN ONE ON ONE.

11/25/2008 12:28:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

OK enough of the excuses people. ND is a young team, give Charlie more time?!?! Please remove your heads from the sand! I know my fellow fans love to talk recruiting stats. Go to rivals.com and check our recruiting classes as they stand now vs Syracuse or Navy (haha). No more excuses ok??? Charlie needs to go. It has nothing to do with talent. It is 100% coaching at this point. In case you have not checked, our schedule was not loaded with top 25 teams, and we just lost to a team with 2 wins and a lame duck coach.

11/25/2008 12:45:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

College football success is having a system and having the players for the system. Charlie does not have the system.

I would like to see Mike Leach - look at what he did at Texas Tech, imagine what he could do at ND.

-1994 grad

11/25/2008 01:00:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Charlie Weis' new book is out: New Excuses: Every Week.

11/25/2008 01:19:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The most important thing is dont under sell this time - go for Stoops and dont take no for an answer! Do it right this time for crying out loud....

11/25/2008 01:33:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

CHARLIE IS NOT GOING ANYWHERE!

Put all the fantasizing aside and deal with reality. He is not leaving. The problem right now is that this team actually came with in a few plays of being 9 and 2. That is what is eating at everyone. The realist among us figured 7 and 5 was the best we could hope for this season. That we are going to finish pretty close to where we should have with this young team is overshadowed by the fact that they came within a hair of 9 and 3!

So, we can either churn or we can start spinning this in a more positive way. The more we spin negative, the more we put doubt into recruits heads, the more danger this ship could be floundering vice sailing smoothly in the next couple years.

While we are on the nautical theme, the idea of getting some motivated young devil dogs into the mix either as coaches, grad assistants, players or all of the above seems like a very outstanding plan.

11/25/2008 01:35:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

GET A GRIP!

Stop the whinning and hysteria and give these developing young men the support and loyalty they need. The coaches are busting their butts and results will begin to show dramatically over the next two years. Charlie is rebuilding the right way; he is a man of character and honor and deserves the patience and respect of true Notre Dame fans.

11/25/2008 02:14:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Before CW, conventional wisdom was that ND could never again become an elite program because academic standards were too high, and therefore we could never get good athletes, and especially not fast ones.

CW blew that conventional wisdom out of the water and has recruited good, fast athletes that would make any team drool.

If we dump CW, we could actually regress, lose the ability to land good, fast athletes, and go back to the days of weak, slow, no star recruits; and no hope of being competitive with the great teams.

CW's extreme succes in recruiting cannot be overstated.

With the amazing players he has brought in, 09 will be much better than this year, and in 10 -- when the amazing sophomore and freshman players are seniors and juniors -- we will be unstoppable.

But CW can't coach them, you say. Nonsense. By the time M. Floyd is a junior, and G. Tate is a senior, anyone could coach them to victory. But not anyone could have recruited them in the first place.

But I can't take the physical and mental pain of these humiliating loses during our rebuilding, you say. Just close your eyes and imagine the suffering of the Michigan fans, and a toothy smile will steal across your face, and a warm buring will return to your heart, which will allow you to get through it.

11/25/2008 02:18:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I hope Charlie doesn't go anywhere. He is a good, aggressive coach and recruiter. I hope all of you kiss his butt next year when we are in a BCS bowl game again. This team is still very young and they will know how to finish next year. - a subway alumn

11/25/2008 02:21:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Charlie isn't going anywhere, and, he shouldn't-- not yet anyway.

(I agree with everything the last Anonymous guy wrote.)

3 of ND's losses were by 5 points or less.

Also, if it weren't for just a scatter of plays that didn't go in their favor (and frankly, some bad calls) their record would be much better-- for those of you screaming for Charlie's head, you wouldn't be saying squat right now, if that were the case.

For those that want Charlie's head on a platter, I ask you this:

Do you even remember the Tyrone Golfingham days??

Are you seriously ready to start the coaching carousel again? If you say "yes", then you're foolish indeed; and, you'd be making that decision based on emotion.

Charlie has made some significant improvements this year. The recruiting has been good. Defense looks better. The team looks good at times, and they flounder at others-- consistency needs to be established.

I think Charlie can do it. Give him time.

Lastly, I think looking at firing Latina is needed-- the offensive line still looks terrible at times.

11/25/2008 02:44:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

First off, last Saturday I was physically ill after the game. I was ready to riot, but that didn't happen cause I was at home. Obviously, no one told the offence that there are 2 halfs to a football game. The defence can only bail the offence out so many times. The offense needs to step up and play some ball.

I agree that some staff changes are needed. The OL has protected the QB but has failed to punish any DL in run blocking. We have the talent and now some debth,unlike last year where there was no debth. The RBs would florish if they had a better coach. The OL has the size but aren't nasty.

Last week, there were 6-8 players in the box stopping the run, that leaves the 2-4 players in man coverage. Why not pass????? The safties were 20 yards off the ball! Being stubbron will only get CW to the unemployment line. Run plays that will get you a 1st on 3rd & long, not draws that gain one or two yards.

I'd wish someone would put a large chip on all the players shoulders, maybe that would put some numbers up. The players seem to not have any kind of modivation. If you can't modivate the kids, bring in someone who can. Bring in tony robbins if that what it takes. Beating teams like Washington won't aspire anyone to take on high caliber teams. I'm sure Weis could open up his NFL black book and bring in some pro atheletes to help out with modivation. That's where some of the players are aspiring to be ??? right? Weis did do this in 05, we had USC on the ropes, didn't finish them off thou. Players that year were modivated! Bring back Lou Holtz, he'll inspire the heck outta evryone.

Just my 2 cents
Go IRISH,

11/25/2008 02:44:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It is clear to me that most fickle ND fans have never played a down of college football. The level of improvement each year is critical to understand. Charlie once said that the biggest improvement comes between Freshman and Sophmore years. He was wrong. Most Freshman and Sophs don't even belong on the field. Those that do (Floyd, Tate, Clausen) are still mentally and physically young compared to most guys they play against. Several younger guys (Rudolph, Allen, Kamara, and Robinson) do not even belong on the field yet. Given this situation, these guys are going to press, they are going to make mistakes and be inconsistent. That is the team we have right now. I don't blame that on Charlie. It is what it is. Now, as for the OLine, they are not good relative to the run game, but I don't know if it's the scheme, the talent, the coaching, or the backs.

11/25/2008 02:48:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"It is clear to me that most fickle ND fans have never played a down of college football."

Wow, we have a genuis in our mists. No sh*t Sherlock. Most of the 10 million people who are ND fans have never played college football? I would have never guessed that. Hmmmmm, Charlie could use a good Offensive Coordinator next year.

11/25/2008 03:04:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am a 35+ year alum,and have sent three kids to SMC/ND so I think yhat I have earned the "right" to be a critic.
No one questions that CW has recruited good players, although some of the stories of how he has dealt with these high school players....if true well he is an embarassement.
Yes we have lost some close games but we have won some close ones that shouldn't have been that way. Remember Navy?
No Charlie is the living example of the "Peter Principle". If you want to hide your head in the sand and not acknowledge it, well I've got a brige to sell you.
Notre Dame is far, far more than football but football is a very visible part of the university thanks to the clever marketing that the powers that be have utilized with NBC. No one ia advocating improving the football program by sacrificing any other part of our great school, but when something is broken when it is getting worse, and face it, it is. IT SHOULD BE FIXED.
The final absurdity is the talk about a bowl game. Give me a break! The ultimate reward for mediocrity, just becaue you have six wins against teams with losing records and "qualify" for a bowl doesn't mean you have earned it. Just because you get invited doesn't mean that you shouldn't have some small amount of pride and turn it down. I remember the Lou Holtz story from the Sugar Bowl against Florida - you know the bowl game we won - where a waiter in NO had asked him what was the difference between Cheerios and ND? Cheerios belonged in a bowl ND didn't. Well Lou proved them wrong that year. But to paraphrase Sen Benson to Dan Quayle: Mr Weis you are no Lou Holtz!

11/25/2008 03:22:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

3 of ND's wins were by 8 points or less.

Also, if it weren't for just a scatter of plays that did go in their favor (and frankly, some bad calls) their record would be much worse-- for those of you who weren't screaming for Charlie's head, you would be saying quite a bit right now, if that were the case.

For those that don't want Charlie's head on a platter, I ask you this:

Do you even remember the Lou Holtz days??

Are you seriously ready to start with a better coach? If you say "yes", then you're smart indeed; and, you'd be making that decision based on stats.

Charlie has not made any significant improvements this year. The recruiting has been good. Defense looks better over weaker competetion. The team looks good at times, and they flounder at others-- consistency needs to be established.

I do not think Charlie can do it.

11/25/2008 03:26:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Let's go negative again...

The funny thing with the Lou posts. Remember the criticism of his offensive style and its lack of appeal to recruits. We needed to get a "pro-style" attack to get the real "blue-chippers." Remember, that was the philosophy that brought Ty and the "West Coast Offense" to South Bend (and the Callahan experiment to Nebraska). Now, we are envious of coaches like Urban Meyers or Kelly or Johnson. How is the system experiment going at Michigan?

Charlie isn't going anywhere. I have to agree with the posters who are saying we need to try TRY to be POSITIVE. These kids are going to get better.

WE ARE ND! Grow-up and quit whining.

11/25/2008 03:51:00 PM  
Anonymous Tridentum said...

Some of these posts are comical. A BCS Bowl in 2009? Dear delusional dreamers here is the straight skinny - Charlie will never be an effective college coach. He can't inspire, he can't develop young talent and he no longer even believes in himself. He has shown absolutely nothing that warrants the privilege of another year, but he'll get it because the administration lacks the steel to do what is right. There really is nothing more to say. Get ready for another mediocre season next year. No doubt some of you will be trumpeting success after the Irish go maybe 7-5 next year. I can hear it now, "Just give Charlie one more year and he'll deliver a NC. His players are young, hes's got a great class coming in, and Willingham..." I love the Irish. It kills me to see what has transpired. They'll be back at the top one day, just not with the New Jersey Robot Genius at the helm.

11/25/2008 03:58:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Charlie needs to go. He does. The problem is the problem--it has taken on a life of its own, and once it does that, leadership is impossible. Further, a real leader recognizes it.

There is a time to search, and a time to give up. It's time to give up.

The question, "What coach would come here?" is silly. Who wants to be president? The type of man we need is the type of man who would come.

11/25/2008 04:07:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

No, let's stay positive.

Everything is wonderful and rosy. We continue to lower the bar and it makes it seem all the better.

Yes, every game these kids are getting better and better. I so enjoy watching the heart and emotion that they play with, it's inspiring.

I love the way Charlie is bringing up his young son, right there on the sideline. Hey, no need for formality, it's all fun and games at ND. Come to ND and we will teach you how to coach.

11/25/2008 04:18:00 PM  
Anonymous Bill '86 said...

All these comments are directed at the X's and O's. Hogwash!! ND has more than enough talent to compete at the elite level and CW has the football knowledge to lead them. The problem is the soft side i.e. getting these talented individual atheletes who are used to being the high school heros of the day and motivating them to play as a team. Time amd time again in any sport you want to choose, "cinderalla" teams emerge who play as one and cover the holes in the depth chart with sheer will. This is what ND lacks and has lacked since Lou won his last title. It doesn't matter who you replace CW with, without the ability to build a "team" it will just be more of the same...The Notre Dame FOLDIN' IRISH.

11/25/2008 04:18:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

What is the difference between whinning and honest criticism based on facts. You don't make a silk purse out of a sows ear and wishing and hoping that something should be so when the facts and statistics point outherwise is delusional.

11/25/2008 04:22:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The real question is:

What's good enough for next year?

Is 9-3 against a watered down 2009 schedule good enough?

I think after these past few seasons we are not going to be afforded the luxury of going 9-3 and getting into a BCS bowl, based on our watered down schedule. Maybe in the past, but no more. People know the difference between Washington State and Penn State.

So, I bet Charlie comes back and goes 8-4 against an easier schedule and keeps his job next year. Kind of hard to fire an 8-4 coach (though Nebraska would).

So, in my opinion it's now or never to jettison Weis or he will always be just good enough to save his neck.

Of course, 9-3 gets me fired at Notre Dame.

11/25/2008 04:29:00 PM  
Blogger TimmyIrish said...

Mercifully, I am military and stationed overseas (and an alum), so I have been spared the embarassment of watching most the games this season on live TV...however, it doesn't sound much better on satellite radio either...
I think that a change is inevitable, but I am very afraid of how it may be done. I do not believe the University should remove Coach Weis without having his replacement ready to roll out on stage the minute the firing announcement is made. No more experiments. The traits of a winner must be backed up by head coaching experience and "real" success. We can't hire on potential. If their is not someone like this available to take the reins, it does the program no good to fire Charlie now. We'll just keep riding this miserable roller coaster that seemingly will not stop.
Even though we've been in Germany, the loses still hurt...It's been a long time since we've had the magic back at ND stadium.

11/25/2008 04:37:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Why do people keep putting Skip Holtz in the coaching mix? He is average at best. His best season was 10-3 at UConn, but mostly had
.500 seasons. He is not his father and would not make a good head coach at ND.

11/25/2008 04:54:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Right now I see a team with no heart, and worse the fans. you're not helpin', your hurtin', and keep it up and the entire incoming class will bail. I would like to applaud the absolute genius idea to plunk our own players with snowballs...absolutely genius. If I'm a recruit, nevermind, if I'm a player I say I know I can do better than this. So lets make a bad situation worse, by demanding the firing of a coach who is the victim of Davieham still. The first two years I never heard one of you experts ripping CW, but now during a major youth movement's maturation process, you all become experts. When this turns around, and all is right again, half of you fans aren't welcome back. I bet half of you are rooting for SC this week, just so you can say I told ya so. There are very few logical fans that I've talked to, so lets all just step back n let it play out one more year. (if not then he's gone).

Go Irish

11/25/2008 05:06:00 PM  
Anonymous ACS7 said...

Before poo-pooing what I am about to ask you to digest...just please recall where Jim Tressel came from.

You want a proven winner. Best won-lost record in college football as a head coach with many years of HC experience. Multiple National Championships.... Awesome Offensive and Defensive teams - annually... And who would JUMP at the prospect of coaching at ND.

Folks - it's Mount Union's Coach Keres.

Before you laugh this off - check him out. I ask again that you consider Jim Tressel's journey and experience before scoffing at this.

The names being bantied about are not coming to ND - period.

A second recommendation would be to find out who is really calling the shots for Penn State and get his butt to ND for an interview. However, having said that, Coach Keres is a gold mine in waiting.

Thanks for hearing me out Irish Lads !!!

11/25/2008 05:08:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"The first two years I never heard one of you experts ripping CW, but now during a major youth movement's maturation process, you all become experts. When this turns around, and all is right again, half of you fans aren't welcome back. I bet half of you are rooting for SC this week, just so you can say I told ya so. There are very few logical fans that I've talked to, so lets all just step back n let it play out one more year. (if not then he's gone)."

Um, did you not watch our performance in the two Bowl games? Are you for real? Even our regular season was far from tough (we beat one team in the Top 25). So, yeah, there were a lot of us not impressed then.

And glad you get to decide who's a fan or not. Get lost, you're not even a Notre Dame fan, you're a poser.

11/25/2008 05:17:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Strong disciplinarians win at ND. If you believe, as I do that Charlie is staying, then we have to find some way of letting him know that he needs to find a way to be that hard-ass. Picking the right group of assistants may help.

As a coach (High School not College...yet), I would never accept my team not being able to run the football. I have never coached an O lineman that did not want to drive the guy across from him into the first row of fans. And yet, our guys cannot find a running game? Again, I think that comes down to discipline and desire.

Charlie is probably with us for another couple years. Hopefully, he will find the right O-line coach and a hardcore, super OC who can get these kids to open some holes.

11/25/2008 05:19:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"So lets make a bad situation worse, by demanding the firing of a coach who is the victim of Davieham still."

Wow, so you're that one guy who is still blaming this on Ty. Good Grief man, talking about illogical. Ty is not the problem any longer. He's gone and fired again. You are delusional and really hurt any credibility you are trying to establish by blaming Ty.

Speaking of which, if they don't fire Weis, he may have pretty good grounds for a discrimination law suit. Davie .587 and five years, Wies .587 and five years, TY .587 and three years? Hmmmmmmmmmmm, bet he could win it.

11/25/2008 05:21:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I like the Marine comments earlier.

11/25/2008 05:21:00 PM  
Blogger jim / Redondo Beach said...

...as you know...I have always been the "half-full" type of blogger...questioning various aspects of the team no matter win or lose...I hate that I have been right...

11/25/2008 05:26:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

CW is toast. Go after Paul Johnson at GT right now. This guys has proven he can win with any talent and is a class guys to boot.

11/25/2008 05:34:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Rumor Mill at the ND Syracuse game was that CW will resign after the S. Cal game saving face because of the "need to attend to his medical concerns" and that it would not be fair to the team to take several months off from the recruiting trail.

We all remember how he took 2-3 weeks off shortly before the 3-9 season to sue his doctor unsuccessfully.

It's also obvious from talking with students who know players on the team, that Clausen has an arrogance that his lost him the respect of his teammates. That's started when CW annoited him the heir apparant for the QB job before setting foot on campus....he obviously wasn't up to the job and the upperclassmen were not given a chance....resentment ensued .....team morale suffered and the result was 3-9 with a NCAA record for QB sacks...now you know why.

11/25/2008 06:04:00 PM  
Anonymous James said...

Let's please keep in mind that this might be the absolute worst offensive line in the history of college football. One of these guys is from Bedford, Pa and JoePa didn't even look at him! I have gone from being incredulous at their lack of effort/skills/manhood/technique to feeling sorry for them because they are getting no coaching and are not being challenged to compete.

BTW, I am so happy for BW that he is kicking so well these last weeks. I thought he made two great kicks last week and just didn't have the muscle to get them through. Here is a guy we should all support: early season struggles, but he maintained focus and achieved high levels of success.

11/25/2008 06:15:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Amazing, the rumors used to fly that Gerry was going to resign...not so.

How many Clausens have lived up to expectations?

11/25/2008 06:21:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I fully agree with your analysis. The booing and snowball stuff is as much of a concern to me as the lack of competent coaching. If next season gets off to a bad start, I fear such behavior and sentiments will increase only making matters worse - including recruiting. ND has to do something dramatic to rekindle the hopes of the players and fans, or we could find ourselves dealing with a far more serous predicament vis-a-vis the potential to get back to an elite level than we faced with Davie and TW. CW should recognize this and fall on his sword to prevent ND from having to deal with such a mess.

11/25/2008 07:04:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I dream of CW stepping aside to allow Lou to take over the reigns; and retain a position as assistant head coach and Off. Coordinator. It seems ridiculous but Kansas State just hired back Coach Snyder; and Lou loves ND as does CW. It would be classy and help handle the financial issues too. CW knows tons about FB, he has proven it. He just doesn't appear to be able to motivate the college age players and, as has been said, is learning on the job. But from whom is he learning? Lou would hold us spellbound and he would kick ass and take names. If CW loves ND and had this choice open to him I just wonder if he would take it.

11/25/2008 07:10:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

As i see it, the real question is how much longer do we permit this to go on? CW's signature game so far is a LOSS to SC in '05. The only game we played this season with any emotion was Michigan and guess what? Lou Holtz was on campus and probably addressed the team that day to motivate them. What else could account for this anomoly? The rest of the year they've played flat and haven't really put in a full 60 minutes of football, as is evidenced by the many dropped double-digit leads. We are completely pushed around by lesser teams for the last several years. Case in point is Navy. They are smaller, have no hope of moving on to the NFL due to their service commitment and they don't get the best recruits ever. But they do get up to play us, as do most programs. Syracuse looked at the past weekend as their bowl game with national exposure and they were stoked for the game. Their players said they could feel it in the air before the game. You know what they were feeling? Desire, intensity, a focus of purpose. We need to feel that every game and where does that come from? It comes from the top of the program. We have the talent so now we need a motivator. What's wrong with bringing Lou back? He's already involved with the University in that he's coaching the Alumni team that will play in Japan. He's a spring chicken compared to JoePa. He would have the O line ready to hit somebody in the mouth in short order. Who's with me?

11/25/2008 07:37:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

C'MON! The number of people who think that a guy with ego enough to be our coach will step aside to be an ASSISTANT truly, TRULY boggles my mind.

This is all about the money. Charlie will not leave without being fired, and that is going to cost us HUGE! So, we need to learn to live with this situation.

What kind of drugs were you guys buying from the janitors on campus (ref the blogger on RH)? Charlie as Lou's OC...WOW!

11/25/2008 07:38:00 PM  
Anonymous Pat K. said...

Folks, it's important to keep in mind what Charlie has been telling us - and we've been telling ourselves - for the last 15 months: the dream that is 2009. No one said that we'd be world beaters this year. Rather, it was said that we'd be better - and we are.

We have gone up double digits on most of our opponents this year, and that is significant. We couldn't do that last year. Sure, we still lack that killer instinct to put a wounded opponent down, but I am hoping that we will learn that next year.

You might think I'm ready to drink the kool-aid, but I'm not giving Charlie a pass on this year. He sold us all a dream of greatness in 2009. For the last year and a half, we bought into it. What changed - that we're not great this year? So what, no one expected us to be - not me, not you, not Charlie. So this seasons shortcomings (that many of us saw coming) have come to fruition and we all panic? Please.

Let's all step back from the edge and take a deep breath. Notre Dame is no better than what their 6-6 record will indicate at the end of the year. Yes, this can be viewed as upsetting, but let's look at the silver lining: a 6-6 record puts ND in a bowl (this is good) against a team who will likely be 6-6 or 7-5 (this is also good) and will be far less talented than the team that ND would have played on Jan. 1st if they had beat Syracuse. Bottom line: ND will win a bowl game - something that hasn't happened in the better part of 2 decades. Furthermore, ND's final record will be 7-6 (with a bowl win) as opposed to 7-6 (getting spanked in another bowl that they didn't belong in).

So, let's take it easy and issue the following ultimatum to Charlie at the end of the year:

You will win at least 10 regular season games and your bowl game or your gone.

Charlie sold us on greatness in 2009 and 2010, not 2008. So, he gets one more year, but that's it.

11/25/2008 07:57:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You need to bring in someone that can run a pro set offense and coach. While Paul Johnson can coach, we will lose a lot of players if they don’t think they have a path to the NFL. Maybe Lane Kiffin or Steve Mariucci (Strike that, we will probably need the DeBartollos to underwrite the new coach’s contract and they have already fired him once before.)


Whoever comes in will benefit from the Westinghouse effect. Change no matter what will be a buoy of hope and bring confidence to the players. Look what it did for CW when he came in. The issue is that you need to follow up hope with solid coaching or the new players that come in will drown under the high expectation and lack of skills required to utilize their natural talent. CW apparently has no clue how to developing young players and can not personally motivate them.

11/25/2008 08:15:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Charlie sold us on greatness in 2009 and 2010, not 2008. So, he gets one more year, but that's it."

Wow, I must have missed that memo.

Charlie said with all thing's being equal we would have a schematic advantage because of him. Um Syracuse recruits are better than ND recruits? False

Charlie said no more losing to the Michigan States of the World. False

Charlie said "9-3" will get me fired. False

Charlie said we would be Nasty and pound the ball. We are 92 out of 120 teams in rushing. False

Here are all the things that I know Charlie said. I don't remember Charlie ever saying, Hey, we'll suck in 2007 and 2008, but wait to 2009.

Love to see a link to that quote.

11/25/2008 08:20:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"No one said that we'd be world beaters this year. Rather, it was said that we'd be better - and we are."

I guess I will concede that we are slightly better than last year. But I'm not sure it was possible to be worse. I think any FBS team this year would be considered better than the team last year. To say we are better is not saying much.

11/25/2008 08:23:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Wow. I cannot believe there are people posting that we should give Charlie more time. He has had four years. How long has it taken Saban? How long did it take Meyer?

How long did it take Willingham to be fired. If this school does not dismiss Weis after next week's drubbing, you have to relook at the race issue. I mean, a guy with a worse record gets two more years?

Finally, was someone actually defending Brandon Walker on this board? Please watch the games before you defend one of the worst kickers I have ever seen in my life.

That is like defending George Bush.

The team is unprepared every week. The players have clearly given up on a guy who might be worse than Willingham. It is over, people.

The Weis era was/is a failure. Wake up.

Even The Rock who, against all common sense, had continued to defend Charlie, can see that he is not the answer.

11/26/2008 12:16:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Be patient."

We've been patient, for fifteen years.

11/26/2008 12:17:00 AM  
Anonymous Jonny said...

We are not (currently) better than we were last year. We have an easier schedule. The team last year that played pretty close with #2 BC and won a few games at the end of the year was as good or better than the team we have playing now. I think this year's squad from the NC, and Pitt games is better than last year's squad, but the amazing thing is that they have digressed below the level of play displayed by the 2007 team at the end of their season.

11/26/2008 12:27:00 AM  
Anonymous Bill v said...

Anyone who could see my previous posts (which have been very difficult on Weis, Clausen and Kamara-saying they are underacheivers because of their character and the inadequate assesment of their overall strengths coming in)would be surprised and confused to hear how I assess the strength of the team after a full season now.
The Irish are about the 14th best team in the country. If they play in a bowl - they are better than even odds of beating any 15th or lower ranked team.
Weis has most of the skills aside from his character flaws to do the job. His biases, which have pushed aside guys like Toryan Smith, Parris and Sharpley have caused this debacle. It is also the reason he has not developed the running game - he quit on it- I mean by not practicing for it any more. Like his constant rationalizing, he fled to the passing game and works hard at only that, in order to salvage a false reputation.
Clausen is a gifted thrower, but is not a true leader, and so only performs when he has all day to throw-hence he always folds in pressure plays and when the game is on the line.
Kamara likewise cannot make plays under pressure.
Weis is a guy with a character problem and likes guys with the same-it's a kind of self justification.
The reason it takes guys like Coffey so long to realize this is the same. That's why in "It's Time" he writes "And they certainly didn't have people in their job interview talking to them about the importance of Catholicism and other tertiary concerns."
He foolishly implies that God is not relevant sometimes. Definition of a character defect. He implies that saints "don't get it", that martyrs were pansies.
John Wooden must really confuse him.

11/26/2008 01:35:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Another thing to keep in mind is that entire conferences are leaving ND behind. On our best day, we are almost good enough to beat second-tier teams (MSU, Carolina, Pitt) from second-tier conferences (Big 10, ACC, Big East). If we had to play a team from one of the power conferences (SEC, Big 12) CW would really get exposed.

11/26/2008 06:11:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"The Irish are about the 14th best team in the country."

So ther are 106 worse teams in the nation? You my friend need to consider medication. Please let us know where they put you and we will alll visit. Good luck to you.

11/26/2008 07:35:00 AM  
Anonymous Bill v said...

My point is that they can beat those teams. The character issue has caused the late game meltdowns,
the fact that they took big leads over those top 25 teams like NC and Pitt show what they should be doing.
I'm not saying they deserve a 14th ranking, I'm saying that if they play a game the whole way through, that that's what they're capable of right now, and have been all season.
I'm not defending Weis. I've been one of few critics of him the previous two seasons.

11/26/2008 08:35:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Tom O'Brien of NC State would be perfect. Beat the crap out of us at BC just like Ara did at Northwestern. Naval Academy grad, Major in the Marine Corps, very successful assistant for George Welsh. Excellent recruiter. Buy Charlie out and hire O'Brien-oral commitments will rejoice!!!

11/26/2008 08:52:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

http://www.fannation.com/si_blogs/the_sweep/posts/26881-the-2008-all-overlooked-team?eref=fromSI

11/26/2008 10:07:00 AM  
Anonymous ND'71 said...

Having read "everything" I could, including these posts, it is my humble opinion given succinctly:

Charlie should and will get next year.

I believe CW health issues have played a part, and will going forward.

An orderly due diligence search should and will take place for his replacement, perferrably and likely with him on board and amenable to taking a lesser position

A Skip Holtz hire brings Lou with him, or maybe visa-versa.
I bet all (Lou, Skip, CW)would be amenable and workeable together.
ND should be willing and able to fork-up the $.

Next year, Claussen should and will be a different animal with somebody up his butt for his job (Crist). Let the best man win, with an eye over his shoulder.

11/26/2008 10:23:00 AM  
Blogger fredshaheen said...

Lou Holtz is the only coach in America that can return this program to greatness!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKN9Rr4peLQ

11/26/2008 10:25:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

a mobile strong armed QB ...a quick and nasty offensive line...a true playmaker at running back .... a beast run stopping nose guard.... a long armed, fast edge pass rusher and a shut down corner!

Problems solved!

11/26/2008 10:56:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Almost everybody who is not stoned knows it's time for Charlie to go!

And yet, I'm guessing 60/40 he'll be back. I'm also betting they will show some improvement next year in W's & L's, but will continue to be an under-achieving ball club.

Those who are predicting gloom and doom in the recruiting wars are right. Just like flipping a switch, the recruits will stop coming. Why? Because EVERYBODY now knows Charlie is NOT going to get it done!

We need to take advantage of his recruiting prowess, and can him before they stop coming. We need to hit a home run in our coaching selection too, and quit trying to "make" great coaches. Great coaches made ND, not the other way around!!!

I'm glad we hired a gut who loves ND, and who brought in assistants who love ND, but who wouldn't trade them all for a staff who leads us to victory. They can learn to love ND too!

11/26/2008 12:45:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This comment may be off topic, but since we're talking about head coaches and changes, I just want to mention after hearing Brown's interview on BGI, one day he's going to be one hell of a head coach somewhere. He's a coach players will play for.

11/26/2008 02:02:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Alright this is mostly to the person who brought up "spygate" as a mark against Charlie. The only controversy in "spygate" was that it even made headlines AT ALL. It was all a bunch of bullsh*t that ESPN (or NYESPN) FINALLY had to apologize for last year after beating us over the head with it day after day. There was NOTHING to "spygate." Do your homework, d*ckwipe.
And most of you chicken littles who call for a coach's head if he doesn't go 12-0 are subway alums who don't experience the ups and downs the way alumni do so you can sit there and say off with his head and never experience the gut-wrenching feeling that losing and coaching change brings. Let's all just take a step back from the ledge okay?
GO IRISH!!!!
BURN TROY!!!!
And yes I still f*cking believe we can beat the Trojans. If you don't believe what's the point of watching or playing?

11/26/2008 05:00:00 PM  
Anonymous UncleFreddy said...

A couple of points...
If not Charlie, then who? There is no one out there that makes me salivate as a replacement.

We recruitred the TOP class after a 3-9 season. I am worried about de-commits. If anything, a 6-6 record is a selling point to a recruit that we will need him (and he will play) sooner. Love him or hate em, that is Charlie's bread and butter.

ND needs some continuity. We cant keep completely starting over every 3 or 4 years. Long term that is more devastating and will mire us in mediocrity than a couple bad seasons.

Remember the original expectations going into this season. I dont think anyone pegged ND with more than 7 wins, even with a softer schedule. That expectation changed during the season, but no one should be that surprised if they remember going into the season.

In my opinion, the main problem is definitely the O-Line. Even if they have three years together, they stink. Poor fundamentals. Poor talent. Before Charlie goes, get rid of Latina 1st and get an O Line coach that knows how to have a run game as a foundation. Latina was the O-Line coach at Ole Miss for Eli and that pass-oriented offense. We need someone that needs to teach the explosiveness off the ball that Moore instilled for years. Pushing the D back to the goals posts, rather than "square dancing" with them (perfect description fot it by the way). If they do that, then I think that's where Charlie will see instant improvements.

Last, everyone complains Willingham got the shaft because we didnt honor the 5 yr contract. While I think that is complete nonsense, let's, for the sake of argument, assume it would have made a difference. Then on that point alone, we should not repeat the same "mistake". Personally, I think Charlie should at least get the 5th year to turn it around. These kids are very talented but still very young. If we do not make a BCS or at least come close in 2009, then I agree a switch should be made. And that switch should be made while the cupboard is still full, rather than how it was in Ty's last class.

11/26/2008 07:37:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I don't like Charlie Weis.

11/26/2008 10:08:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I've heard many comments about a new coach, but nothing to the obvious as a new Head Coach that would be an absolute home run. Hire Bill Cowlher before the NFL comes calling, break the bank and go after this great coach. We need to bring the Nasty and some attitude back to ND.

11/27/2008 08:08:00 AM  
Anonymous IrishJeff said...

If Notre Dame hires a new coach, they need to find someone who has a proven track record of success as a college head coach (which means this person would know how to assemble a coaching staff that can actually teach the players something), has the energy to recruit and motivate the players, embraces the Notre Dame tradition and community, and has integrity.

So who do we go after? Some of the names I've seen on here like Stoops, Tressel, etc. obviously aren't realistic. The schools they coach at have similar rich traditions, pay similar salaries, and are currently much more successful than Notre Dame, so, there would be no rational reason for them to come here.

I don't think Gruden's a good idea because I don't think he would have the patience to teach/coach college players. (That's why he always insists on having a 35+ year old guy as his starting QB - he has no patience with developing rookies).

The calls to bring Fulmer in are ridiculous: he's burned out as a coach after 17 years at Tennessee (look at the way that thing has slid downhill on his watch, their home loss to Wyoming a few weeks ago was almost as bad as our Syracuse loss).

Also, although I think the world of Lou Holtz, I don't think he should have to come back to the Notre Dame sidelines at 71, he's already a legend here and it's high time someone else come in here and assume the mantle of next great coach of the Irish.

Finally, Skip Holtz just doesn't have the track record yet(only one season of 9+ wins, which I believe is what Ty had on his resume when he was hired).

No, we need to look at somebody who's won consistently at the Division I college level and is hungry to make the jump to a more high profile program. When Holtz was brought in back in '85, he had six 9+ win seasons at the Division I level and, although Notre Dame had fallen upon hard times, he jumped at the chance to come here as it represented a big step up from his then-current coaching job at Minnesota.

So, if N.D. makes the change, I hope that they get somebody who has the skill set and track record to do the job.

11/27/2008 09:58:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Wow. I cannot believe there are people posting that we should give Charlie more time. He has had four years. How long has it taken Saban? How long did it take Meyer?"

Are you high?

Meyer and Saban have a great deal of college head coaching experience. They know all the ins and outs. Charlie does not--yet.

That's why Ara and Lou did so well when they came to ND-- they already had all those years of experience to tap into.

Charlie has barely gotten started with head coaching experience and learning to develop young kids.

He's was an NFL coordinator.

Stop comparing him to seasoned college head coaches. Anyone who does is a fool.

11/27/2008 11:05:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hold on just a minute!! Hold on! We are starting a true SO at QB, True SO at TB, True SO at C, True SO at OG, True FR at OG, True JR at OT! They are still young, with every intelligent individual on this site, please look at their ages. It seems trivial playing at 19 or 20 is different than 21,22, or 23. Next year is the first year that we may use FR in a spot role. There will be some youth, but only for a play here or there. Our best WR is a FR, SO, SO,and probably the other FR. Hang on 1 more year. If they choke next season, then bye bye! There are problems with changing coaches every two to three years. These are growing pains. Lou had growing pains, i.e. end of the 87 season, blowout in a bowl game and they go 11-0 in 88. HANG ON!

11/27/2008 12:15:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think it is funn to hear eveyone talk about howwe need to fire CW. After two cosecutive years of finishing in the top 10 he had to competely reboot his entire team. Willingham decimated our progrm, it has been talked about in several articles ON THIS SITE. Rebuilding a team into a top 10 team from scratch takes a little longer than 1 year.... Why dont you try supporting our beloved irish and CW instead of making it a volatile place for coaches and players alike.

Listen to what Charlie says.... UC is so good because when someone goes down another guy can step up and play just as well.... they are DEEP. When your team has to be rebuilt from scratch you are not going to be deep.

Point-in-case give the guy more than two bad years, we know what he can do with talent he just needs time to develop it and not just 2 seasons with ABSOLUTELY NO VETERAN LEADERSHIP. patience people, patience

11/27/2008 04:17:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yeah your post and this http://www.ndnation.com/misc/firecharlieweis.php aren't at all contradictory.

11/27/2008 10:16:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If "Spygate " was a bunch of BS ...why did the NFL fine the Patriots headcoach $500,000. The former Patriots player interviewed by Hall of Fame QB Steve Young described the Patriots highly organized scheme to steal defensive signals . It explains why the Pats were so dominant in the second half of many games during their Super bowl years and sheds light on the the falsehood of Weis being an offensive guru. It was best for all involved to sweep it under the rug and move on. In reality, it was worse than the NBA scandal of the cheating Ref. The NFL did a great job of limiting the damages.

11/28/2008 04:32:00 AM  
Anonymous Jack from ND said...

Like most of you, I believe Weis just isn't the man for ND. Here's a name though, that none of you have thrown out there....

Greg Schiano.

The guy turned Rutgers, bleeping Rutgers people, into a perennial Big East contender. He has been pulling recruits and knows how to win and develop his talent (Ray Rice, Kenny Britt, etc...). Give him the keys to a school like Notre Dame, and he will do with it what hasn't been done since Holtz. Now all that being said, we would have to pay a good buck for him to pry him out of NJ, but I believe it is worth it and it's possible. Notre Dame has more money than they know what to do with, and paying to get a coach that will bring us a title is most definitely worth it.

11/28/2008 01:47:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am as big a ND fan as there is and I want to know who would come to Notre Dame if they fire Charlie Weis right now.

I am not saying that Weis is perfect. He isn't. We knew when he hired him that he'd never run a program before. But, the guy can recruit. The guy is willing to give everything to this team. He is who we've got for the next year and these bloggers that are running around looking for his head are insistent on setting Notre Dame back ten years. Seriously. A good college coach gets the kids to win the games. Half of ND's squad wasn't recruited by Weis and he's won with them. The other half came from strong recruiting classes that are poised to compete next year.

Stop it. Stop blaming Weis for the weak performance of some of the players. He cannot catch the ball. He cannot block or tackle. he can get the best athletes with brains to show up in South Bend. And, he is doing that. Unlike Willingham and, to a lesser extent Davie, Weis is getting the athletes. Give him the time to win games.

11/28/2008 03:00:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

As a die hard USC fan PLEASE! PLEASE! keep CW.

11/28/2008 05:36:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Charlie Weis probably knows X's and O's better than anyone who has coached at ND. Lou Holtz didn't have a big playbook or trick plays. I even heard Nick Saban on espn the other day say he used a vanilla offense the entire season. What it comes down to is fundamentals and a team who is a cohesive unit. You can have great players but if they are not taught the fundamentals and they do not do their jobs they will not win many games. This team doesnt believe in itself b/c they are not properly prepared and they don't have a clear team goal. This is Weis' job.

11/28/2008 06:30:00 PM  
Anonymous LTNDFAN said...

I think that a lot of the problem lies in what seems to a lack of intensity on CW’s teams. I go back as far as the Michigan game in 2006 just after blowing out Penn State. I saw it myself and the announcer called it also as they players came out of the tunnel they looked flat. We have read a lot of talk about lack of emotion in the Cuse game this last week but that is what I saw the last 4 years most of the time. I think either CW does not know how to get a team up for a game or he does not understand that emotion is a much bigger part of the game at the college level than it is in the NFL. I am not saying that there has not been some strange game decisions made and some Xs & Os controversy but I can’t help but feel that more than a few games were lost the last four years due to lack of intensity. I remember hearing that Rockne once said something similar to you can only get the guys at their peak intensity twice a year but I think that the drop between peak and what we have seen is beyond what you would expect. Losing is one thing; not playing to the best of your ability for 60 minutes is another. I never played college football but I cannot imagine how a player can put on that golden helmet, tap the “Play like a champion today” sign, hear the Victory March and not be ready to play. However, that is what we have been seeing week after week. That lies with the head coach. Week after week we hear they wanted it more. I have to ask the question: Why?

I have never been an anti CW guy. I have always hoped he would succeed as I have always cheered every Irish coach since Ara began his tenure when I became a fan. I had to listen to the games on the radio then. I will never forget Rod Sherman catching that TD pass at the end and spoiling a perfect season. I saw Jack Snow here in Saint Louis a few years ago before he passed. He was doing a live talk radio show then from a sports bar. I said hello and wished him well but I did not bring up the USC game in 64. Sorry about rambling on but I love Irish football and I have always wished for the team and coaches to succeed. I have liked some coaches better than others. Sometimes I had hoped that they would be fired after a few seasons. If Charlie stays then I hope he turns it all around and stays a long time. If he leaves I wish him the best and I will hope and pray that his successor wakes up the thunder and brings ND back to football excellence.

11/28/2008 08:55:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It is hilarious that someone who is defending Charlie Weis, a coach that will have a worse winning percentage than Ty Willingham after saturday, actually asked me if I was high.

Hilarious.

No, I'm not high, I'm just watching Nick Saban win an instchampionship, just like Meyer did before him.

No, I'm not high, I'm just sick of watching history's greatest college football program lose to teams like Navy and Syracuse.

No, I'm not high, I'm just tired of the complete lack of preparation and heart this team shows every week, while Saban takes a 6-6 team to a national championship. Tell me again what was ND's record before Charlie took over? Yeah.

No, I'm not high, maybe you should check your condition.

Is this a USC board? Insults do not equal arguments people. Of course, there is no defending Charlie on the merits, so I guess insults are all you have.

By the way, how is Brian Kelly doing with the Bearcats? Anyone want to play Cincinnati right now? We live in a world where Cincinnati would beat the daylights out of Notre Dame. CINCINNATI.

Finally, all of you who are posting that no one has come up with a plan b, or are claiming there is no one out there good enough to replace Weis, need to check out some of the other posts. We have suggested numerous possible replacements; I have been talking about Brian Kelly for over a year. I'm pretty sure ND can find someone else to go 9-15 over two year of mediocre competition.

I'll say it again, we live in a world where Cincy is better than ND and there are actually Irish fans happy with that situation.

And they ask us if we are high.

11/29/2008 01:48:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Like most of you, I believe Weis just isn't the man for ND. Here's a name though, that none of you have thrown out there....

Jeff Jagodzinski.

11/29/2008 04:00:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"I think it is fun to hear eveyone talk about howwe need to fire CW. After two cosecutive years of finishing in the top 10 he had to competely reboot his entire team. Willingham decimated our progrm, it has been talked about in several articles ON THIS SITE. Rebuilding a team into a top 10 team from scratch takes a little longer than 1 year.... Why dont you try supporting our beloved irish and CW instead of making it a volatile place for coaches and players alike."


Thank you, well said.

11/29/2008 10:39:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Bring back Ara

11/29/2008 11:39:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

All I can say is Charlie get some help - you have talented five star high school players which equals nothing. You need five star players at the college level. You also need a staff a staff which you allow to coach and have responsibility. And finally you need an AD who will get on your ass and tell you what will get done. Without this you will not change. Charlie I hope you stay and win - but this is not about you. Get over your ego and get it done.

11/30/2008 11:13:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Tell me this, how do you go 10-3 and 9-3 your first 2 seasons, with players that Willingham recruited? Then go 3-9 and 6-6 your next 2 years with guys you recruited? But yet complain that Willingham couldn't recruit?

12/03/2008 03:02:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Weis never once complained that Ty couldn't recruit. Lord.

12/03/2008 05:36:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"No, I'm not high, I'm just sick of watching history's greatest college football program lose to teams like Navy and Syracuse."

Hey, I'm completely with you on that.

I asked if you were high because you, like other people, expect us to be like Florida or 'Bama whilst we have a fairly green head coach at the helm. An NFL Coordinator who's learning the college ropes.

One who brought us back to back BCS bowls right out of the gate.

Stop bringing up Saban and Meyer-- you just don't get it right after it was explained to you. THEY HAVE A WEALTH OF HEAD COACHING EXPERIENCE WEIS DOES NOT YET. PERIOD.

And now, people like you are deeming Weis a worthless bum. And, are ready to pitch him in the dumpster because you lost your bragging rights for a time.

The problems at ND are going to take time to straighten out. Charlie needs that time to grow.

I agree if he doesn't improve, we should start looking for a replacement for him.

Even he'd probably agree with that.

12/03/2008 08:51:00 PM  

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