Christmas For Sale at ND
posted by John Vannie
The irony was not lost on me. On Pearl Harbor Day, Notre Dame announced its football team would play in the Sheraton Hawaii Bowl against the University of Hawaii. The game will be played on Christmas Eve, which has caused quite a stir among Irish fans who are already displeased with the fact that the football program is in such dire straits.
Notre Dame alumni cannot blame a surprise attack by the Japanese for obliterating their once-proud football program. That honor belongs to the administration, whose mismanagement bordering on gross negligence during the past 20 years has steadily reduced Irish football from a national treasure to a punch line. The University has only one enemy in this war of attrition - its own leadership.
Christmas Eve is not exactly an appropriate time for Catholics to get cozy by the television and watch a four hour infomercial on the joys of Sheraton hotels interspersed with nauseating servings of mediocre football. I don’t feel quite the outrage over this latest blasphemy as some of my more vocal colleagues, mainly because I will simply choose not to tune in.
My strongest emotion is one of pure sadness. Notre Dame was once a headline performer, but it has been reduced to a barely recognizable warm-up act in a third rate lounge. The payout of $750,000 won’t cover the University’s travel expenses, but the administrators will tell you between sips of their fruity drinks that the real motivation is to reward the players for their six wins against some of the worst teams on the planet. It apparently is of little consequence that they had to sell Christmas to earn it.
One can only hope that as December 7, 1941 marked the end of the Great Depression, the 2008 Sheraton Hawaii Bowl will someday be known as the point in Irish football history from which the program rose from the ashes and returned to glory. The problem with such optimism is that Notre Dame does not have a Churchill or Roosevelt at the helm. It has Neville Chamberlain in a smock.
Some misguided historians say that Chamberlain’s policy of appeasement bought a much-needed year for Britain to get ready for the inevitable world war. Maybe Notre Dame’s strategy to keep Charlie Weis for one more season is similarly brilliant, and will result in a home run hire twelve months from now. Then again, things just may get worse.
In any event, don’t waste time wondering if the bowl game is a just reward for the team after months of hard work, or whether the extra practice time will detract from their academic performance this semester or lead to a lick of improvement next season. The entire circus is irrelevant and the benefits are inconsequential. Besides, the team’s performance in Oahu will be eerily similar to what we’ve already experienced in November.
The best advice I can give you is to stay home and have a merry and blessed Christmas, and you can do that by keeping the silliness and depression out of your living room.
Notre Dame alumni cannot blame a surprise attack by the Japanese for obliterating their once-proud football program. That honor belongs to the administration, whose mismanagement bordering on gross negligence during the past 20 years has steadily reduced Irish football from a national treasure to a punch line. The University has only one enemy in this war of attrition - its own leadership.
Christmas Eve is not exactly an appropriate time for Catholics to get cozy by the television and watch a four hour infomercial on the joys of Sheraton hotels interspersed with nauseating servings of mediocre football. I don’t feel quite the outrage over this latest blasphemy as some of my more vocal colleagues, mainly because I will simply choose not to tune in.
My strongest emotion is one of pure sadness. Notre Dame was once a headline performer, but it has been reduced to a barely recognizable warm-up act in a third rate lounge. The payout of $750,000 won’t cover the University’s travel expenses, but the administrators will tell you between sips of their fruity drinks that the real motivation is to reward the players for their six wins against some of the worst teams on the planet. It apparently is of little consequence that they had to sell Christmas to earn it.
One can only hope that as December 7, 1941 marked the end of the Great Depression, the 2008 Sheraton Hawaii Bowl will someday be known as the point in Irish football history from which the program rose from the ashes and returned to glory. The problem with such optimism is that Notre Dame does not have a Churchill or Roosevelt at the helm. It has Neville Chamberlain in a smock.
Some misguided historians say that Chamberlain’s policy of appeasement bought a much-needed year for Britain to get ready for the inevitable world war. Maybe Notre Dame’s strategy to keep Charlie Weis for one more season is similarly brilliant, and will result in a home run hire twelve months from now. Then again, things just may get worse.
In any event, don’t waste time wondering if the bowl game is a just reward for the team after months of hard work, or whether the extra practice time will detract from their academic performance this semester or lead to a lick of improvement next season. The entire circus is irrelevant and the benefits are inconsequential. Besides, the team’s performance in Oahu will be eerily similar to what we’ve already experienced in November.
The best advice I can give you is to stay home and have a merry and blessed Christmas, and you can do that by keeping the silliness and depression out of your living room.
95 Comments:
"Besides, the team’s performance in Oahu will be eerily similar to what we’ve already experienced in November."
Why bother playing if we already know how we will play.
I know Vannie's comments come from a love and passion for ND football, but I wish he'd grant the possibility that we might do well and that we might turn a corner. Maybe he would also hold out the possibility that Weis might learn something from another failed season and flip the switch.
I'm glad they are playing. Floyd and Smith will be back and the rest of the team will be healthier. I think it's a good chance to end the season on a high note. It's not like the season could end any lower.
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Maybe it is time to see Notre Dame as first and foremost a university - whose mission is to teaching and research, and preparing it students to be leaders and agents of change in the 21st century.
Inter-collegiate sports, from baseball to fencing to football - is a secondary concern - an aspect of student life and recreation.
Football served a purpose 80 years ago to put Notre Dame on the map as a symbol of catholic achievement in a WASP USA. Frankly I would rather measure success in 2008 by the number of Rhodes Scholars and Marshall Scholars and Nobel Prize winners among the faculty.
In the 1930 the University of Chicago -- home of the first Heisman Trophy winner -- left the Big 10 Conference and de-emphasized football. Look what the U of C became. Frankly I would criticize the current ND administration for not being daring enough to do the same.
Go Irish!
Hopefully with Floyd back they can pull it together and get a win, although it'll be a tough game. That will at least provide some momentum going into next year.
JVAN, you are passionate about ND football as are most of us that read your comments. Rome is not necessarily burning and we need more positive feedback to lift these guys up. Let's get behind them. A win in Hawaii could give everyone--fans, players, coaches, recruits--a giant lift heading into the slow season.
Awesome article and it speaks truth to the very heart of the matter... not that the Pollyannas will get it.
"A win in Hawaii could give everyone--fans, players, coaches, recruits--a giant lift heading into the slow season."
What makes you think we'll win?
Real Catholics celebrate the Epiphany.
Go Irish!
So, did everyone here get angry when the Irish played in New Year's Day Bowls? It is the Solemnity of Mary, after all.
Thanks Sean Hannity. I'm getting pretty sick of people working themselves into a faux outrage at the AD and admins with every piece of news involving this team. The problem is that we stink, if the game interferes with your Christmas plans don't watch it.
Your ship has sailed, JVan. Very curious to see where you'll be when ND turns the corner.
Vannie, I know you are irritated with the state of the football program, but let's not get sanctimonial about playing on Christmas Eve.
seVery good point, Anon, about playing on the Solemnity of Mary, Mother of God.
Besides, the game will be on Christmas Eve, not Christmas Day. Yes, I know the vigil is part of the solemnity, but I think this is just an excuse to complain about what the administration chose.
What other choice would people have wanted? Houston? NFL Network, so low ratings. Detroit? Not exactly a great fan destination right now. Toronto in December? No thanks.
About the only other option that might have made sense was Shreveport. But I doubt the payout would have been that big there, either, and it amounts to a home game for LA Tech.
I can understand why the admin, players, etc. would choose Honolulu over the other options for myriad reasons.
But some folks are simply going to rant and rave until the team's performance turns around. And it will. And many of those fans will be as unsufferable in victory as they are intolerable in defeat. That's the nature of fandom.
The last Christmas Aloha Bowl I remember featured fisticuffs between the Rainbow Warriors and Alabama? So long as we keep things classier than that (and there are no snowballs there so I don't see how we shouldn't), I'm all right with the kids hangin' loose. That's better than most of us deserve.
Enough with the doom and gloom. There is nothing new here. Are these articles now a form of catharsis for you. If it bothers you so much, don't watch, don't contribute to ND and find a new team to root for. We are a 6-6 team and we are going to a 6-6 bowl and there are obvious postives as ennumerated by other commenters above. You obviously have a passion for ND but sometimes there is a need to reign it in. Otherwise you are just another shock jock.
With all circumstances considered, I can't think of anything better than watching Notre Dame play in a bowl game on Christmas Eve while enjoying some spirits with my brother and father.
Go Irish!
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hey this could be a good thing. maybe a nice christmas gift if santa doesn't kick us in the nuts.
maybe a linebacker recruit will get some extra viewing time of ND.
we're ND fans, we watch to cheer or suffer.
I must say that after reading this I've come to a conclusion. I won't read anything from here again. To say that you simply won't watch a game is absurd. If your a "fan" then you suck it up and cheer them on. Sounds to me like your more then a bandwagon ND fan because if this was the gator bowl then you'd be fine with it. I will watch them because one they are student athletes and have earned a bowl game. Respect the university and keep your mouth shut.
Well, Jason, if we would have only defeated Syracuse then we would have been playing in the Gator Bowl. That we could not even do that at home on Senior Day is all you need to know about the state of the program.
Sadly, I agree. Enough of the "fruity drinks"--tell it like it is.
It would have been far more dignified NOT TO ACCEPT A BOWL BID of this kind--the type Charlie himself derisively called a "toilet bowl" only last year. However we view the ironic appropriateness of the HC actually being relieved by last year's losing season, it shouldn't be lost on us that there is a different tune this year. Aesop called that kind of shift in perspective "sour grapes."
The post is solid and shouldn't be criticized as "negative" when it is no more negative than what Weis himself stated last season. It has in its DNA far more real appreciation for ND football tradition than the decision to go to Hawaii on Dec 24 ever will.
I'm astounded at the bedwetting today reagrding this bowl bid. ND Nation is turning into a bunch of ninnies. Show up, play the game, and scratch, claw and FIGHT to restore some dignity to our football program. No matter what the day, place, or hour. Strap-in and play the game. The ninnies don't have to watch or care. God created women's soccer for these people.
"And our hearts forever praise thee Notre Dame" (except when administrators make decisions that we don't like)
"And our hearts forever love thee Notre Dame!" (except when student-athletes compete and lose, then we turn on them with vengeance)
Somehow this doesn't feel like the Fighting Irish spirit...
If I was a player, the Hawaii Bowl would sound pretty good to me--and a heckuva a lot better than going to Houston or Jacksonville. Playing on Christmas Eve is not the same as playing on Christmas Day. Personally, I'm happy to have an ND game to watch as I wrap presents, and I'm hoping the team will give one--a win--to me and the rest of the Notre Dame family--even the black sheep like you know who.
Some fan you are Vannie, and everyone else whining how "I don't get to go to the bowl game this year." Too freaking, bad. We should all be so lucky to even THINK about having the opportunity to attend a bowl game. Go ahead, don't watch the game, I'll be rootin for those boys. You make it sound as if the school is committing a sin by playing on christmas eve. Vannie and the like would be complaining just as much if we were in the Texas bowl. Hey Vannie, I'll let ya know how a couple of guys by the name of Bruton, Grime, Crum and Kunz play in their last game!
This is an important bowl:
1-End that nearly 15 year without a bowl win drought
2-Recruiting in Hawaii
3-Experience for when we play in the BCS next year
GO IRISH!!!!
If I was a player, I'd much rather play in Hawaii, than Houston, San Antonio, or even Jacksonville. And as a fan, I'm glad to have an ND game to watch as I wrap presents on Christams Eve. I'm hoping the Irish will give a present--a win--to me and the rest of the Notre Dame family...even the black sheep like John.
I would like to believe in ND under Weis, but I too feel more like Vannie. I can tell you this, Weis has given me absolutely NO confidence that he can coach. Even if he somehow coaches a win against Hawaii (I think it is very unlikely), he will not all of a sudden become a good coach next year. I strongly believe, if Weis stays, ND loses at least 3 games next year. Why? Because he has not changed in 4 years of coaching at the college level.
Holtz brought a boot camp mentality to ND. It toughened up the players to the point where NO ONE was tougher than them. His teams consistently won the line of scrimmage, especially on offense. That type of mentality, which is what is needed to win college football games, simply is not taught by Weis (nor was it by Willingham nor by Davie). Until he changes and it is taught, ND will simply be as competitive as, say, Purdue has been under Joe Tiller. There is just not a big difference between Charlie Weis and Joe Tiller, and that is not good enough.
It would be interesting to see ND lose this game. There would be an uproar to get rid of Weis that, I imagine, Swarbrick could not withstand. Being a smart attorney and anticipating this, I imagine Swarbrick is making moves right now. Think about this series of events: Tebow wins Heisman; ND loses bowl game; Weis remains coach into 2009 (afterall, Swarbrick said he would be ND's coach in 2009); Florida wins National Championship in 2009; Meyer, having accomplished everything possible at Florida leaves for ND; Swarbrick fires Weis. This might be farfetched, but I would be surprised if Swarbrick is not at least looking into this possibility. Afterall, the guy is good at making things happen.
Once can hope...
We have an opportunity to end the bowl loss streak. If successful, it's one less thing the team needs to hear about when preparing for next year's bowl game.
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News Flash: Not everyone associated with ND is Catholic. The level of outrage at playing on Christmas Eve is hilarious. Maybe you would have a small point if it was on the 25th, but even still don't be ridiculous.
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This won't bring up anything that hasn't been said before, but honestly, who chooses to fill their head with negativity on such a consistent basis? Sure, reality is that this team is not a good team, but why consistently say that in different ways? Don't you think that the more negative you are, the more destructive you'll end up being? As many have said here before, I'm a fan win or lose. I've been watching ND football since I could see and I've never known ND to be a powerhouse because I'm only 21 years old. In many ways, if not every way, I consider myself more of a fan than any of you bloggers who consistently cry, piss, and moan about the state of our program when you're doing nothing more to better it than the administration! Show some support for your team! I don't think they're trying any less than their best to bring this program around so let's do the best we can do as fans and continue to root for our team. How can we expect the players to keep playing when they lose if we as fans quit being fans when they lose?
I want a coach who can bring us back to prominence more than anyone because I've only heard of how the sun shone off the golden dome and helmets during the glory days. You all need to man up, grow a pair, or go put your helmet on and teach the boys how to play football. Maybe you'll learn a thing or two in the process....
so many debbie downers around here. whatever happened to enjoying watching notre dame play football. i pray you don't treat your children (present or future) like you treat this men who play for ND. sometimes supporting the team is more important than your friend teasing you. grow a pair people.
reps to the optimists here. things are bad but i've never see a more pathetic showing of our fans.
I was hoping for a better season but I thought at the beginning of the season that our number 1 priority this year was to get a bowl victory. Seriously, if this team is going to win a National Championship in the next few years, with Chuck or not, they are going to have to get this monkey off their backs now. Let's see some from this team and get a bowl victory!
My wife and I are hosting our in-laws (Michigan fans) on Christmas Eve, and can't wait to see their faces as they are forced to watch and listen to our beloved Irish play on national television while the "skunks" are home licking themselves.
NOTRE DAME OUR MOTHER,
PRAY FOR US!!!
OUR LADY OF VICTORY,
PRAY FOR US!!!
Anonymos 4:48 - While I respect your comment, it appears in similar wording in the Observer every couple of years. Sorry, we are not just going to stop striving for excellence in football, as though it were mutually exclusive to academic and spiritiual greatness. (And the U of C is great, but makes a cold, secular model for what we should aspire to).
I don't like the Dec. 24 timeframe, but I also don't fault the team for accepting the invite. If ND wins, it can be a small step forward. If they lose, it will just affirm what most of us already know from watching this horrible season.
NDNation has become a bitch fest. The negative energy coming from nearly every post makes coming on this site a hazard to my mental well being. Its like a competition between to nagging girlfriends to see who can bitch the loudest and longest. Just except the realities with which were presently presented and support your team.Just support your damn team.
Ouch! I think this game will tell us a lot about what the kids/student athletes think about Weis coming back next year. If they play with no emotion (other than the D which really stepped up this year) then we know he has lost this team. If they really step it up then we know we have a chance next year. I have 2 kids at ND and both told me at Thanksgiving that they had heard from various players that they had lost it as a team. This is very disconcerting and really makes me wonder if the AD spoke with the players. In any event as a die hard fan I will be watching intently to see what happens and hope Charlie can turn it around. I am not optimistic about CW but I will always "Love Thee Notre Dame"!
This website continues to degrade itself. It borders on unreadable. Why bother to post this response? Some misguided notion that if you read this message and those like it enough times you'll quit crying and go back to being a good resource for those who love Notre Dame and its football program.
Enough. You're acting like the spoiled brat Notre Dame haters want you to be.
Some misguided notion that if you read this message and those like it enough times you'll quit crying and go back to being a good resource for those who love Notre Dame and its football program.
What do you expect a "good resource" to do in this situation?
The program is being mismanaged. The players want change as desperately as we do.
Yet when we put out the warning signs and suggest people try and help effect change, we get complaints that we're "whining" and "too negative".
What are we supposed to do? Pretend everything's hunky dory? It's not.
I will be on the road to my kids home on Christmas eve but I will be ensconced in a motel room with my B&B and watching one more Notre Dame
football game in 2008. And I will be on the side lines in spirit cheering them to victory.
Go Irish
Accepting a bowl bid to a third-tier bowl in a nice destination is what teams with 6-6 records do. Especially teams that need the practice. It's been a long time since Notre Dame was good enough to turn down such an opportunity.
So, first step towards providing a decent resource? Don't complain about every decision just for the sake of complaining. Turning down a bowl, or going to a different one of the options available wouldn't have been a better choice. You know it. I know it. Notre Dame Nation knows it.
Well said Vannie. I am starting to think that you boardops, Andy and a few others are the only ones left who really recall what Notre Dame football once was. What especially saddens me while reading your post is the realization that it may be too far gone, and will never be back.
"What are we supposed to do? Pretend everything's hunky dory? It's not."
you're supposed to quit whining fo a couple weeks and try to support Notre Dame in winning a bowl game that will be watched by a lot of people.
Ok, why is it necessary to compare such a tragic event as the bombing of Pearl Harbor to the fate of a football team?
Your emotion is one of "pure sadness"? If ND going to a pointless bowl game causes you that, then its safe to say you have led an emotionally empty life.
Meanwhile, in the real world, the country is in a financial meltdown and people are losing yet some how you believe that ND playing a bowl game on Christmas Eve is worth a comparison to Pearl Harbor.
It's because of ND fans like you that I can't protest when other people tell me how oblivious and out of touch we ND fans are.
And if ND loses, spare us a comparison to the Holocaust, will you?
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Lighten up. Vannie is right. And I am sure the Church is pissed because millions of Irish fans will forgo Mass on Christmas Eve to watch the game -- significantly reducing the collection take!
Great post, Vannie. Too many ND fans -- and many of your colleagues at ND Nation -- are mere cheerleaders who just don't get it and/or are afraid to criticize the ridiculous state the program now finds itself in. The result of this has been lowered expectations and standards -- all of a sudden, 9-3 is considered "pregress." Sad, indeed.
continued talk like this would ordinarily result in a one sided ass kicking. lucky for you you rant with a nom de plum.
all the blogs that make it then are removed plus all those that never make it lend one to think that this site is a controlled site
Be strong and tell it like it is. Time will prove you right. All these people telling you to be quiet and support the team are not worth listening to. Don't apologize for seeing what they don't see. Somebody has to keep the standards of champions during this long, long exile on mediocrity island.
Amen to bravely telling it like it is and not settling for 9-3 "progress" or other forms of mediocrity!
I will be watching the game does it matter that we get to watch the game on Christmas Eve? I mean at least it will be something to do and talk about with my family. Worst article I have read all year. So tired of hearing about the "administration." So you are too much of a devot Catholic to watch a football game on Christmas Eve but still willing to throw stones at people because its somehow their fault we are in a lower level bowl? Did they line up in any games this year?
The Irish are in a bowl game, and I will cheer for them even though I wish they were in a better game.
Cheer for the team now, and hope they will become among the elite again (soon.)
Lets say this trip might be to secure the service of the 5 star
recruit Weis went to see after the USC game?
What better way to introduce the kid to his new team mates then a visit at the bowl game?
Who knows,he might have some friends? Some BIG friends to help
on the D-line!
Just like in a relationship, at some point you have to know where to draw the line. I just can't keep loving somebody that insists on hurting me over and over again. After 21 years together I'm callin it quits! I put too much into ND football every year. For the past 6 years I've made just about every home game and I've traveled to 3-4 away games per year. As much as I want to hang in there and just hold on for one more year, I can't do it anymore. I want to cheer again...I want my team to win again. There is no chance of that with ND anytime soon. Take care guys! Maybe one day I'll come back, but as for now...GO SC!
I will be cheering, as a fan and as a Catholic. I am sure Christmas Eve will be enjoyed once again over some fine spirits. GO IRISH
I don't want to get back to the importance of recruiting again, but.. last year is done. Charlie is staying another year. Is torching the program at every opportunity at this point going to do anything productive? No. What it might do, however, is change the minds of any decent recruits already committed to ND, and keep any decent prospects left from committing. All that will do is push the program farther down, and leave less talent for whoever the future coach might bring.
I used to look forward to perusing this site every morning when I started up the computer. This site has gotten to be lame and a poor excuse for whining and bitching. Support the team through tough times and bad. You've really ruined a good product that used to provide great news and analysis. Go pick another team to root for!
"Go SC"...Obviously you are not and have never been an athlete. If you were, you would know that you do not jump ship (and loyalties) because of some bad circumstances. Man up and take it. If you were an athlete I would have hated to be your coach or teammates. No TRUST!!! Teams, like people, go through all sorts of adversity, but it is how you react and bounce back that can make you stronger.
Vannie and Coffey are entirely correct in their pessimistic outlook of the football program. For the second year the team underachieved against a very weak slate of teams. It's very possible that ND will lose in the bowl to post a 6-7 record.
The decision to retain Weis mystifies me given the total state of disarray the program appears to be in. Given the team's performance the last three games it seems Weis has lost the players.
Every other major program would have axed the coach after 3-9 and 6-6 seasons. The university AD and administration have a history of horrible decision making so I wouldn't be surprised if they hired Lee Corso after Chuckie gets canned in 2009.
My God, even Faust could beat a few top 10 teams occasionally. Charlie can't even beat anyone ranked in the top 25!
I am thrilled that Notre Dame is going to Hawaii, and I resent the negative tone of Vannie's comments.
Would I have preferred a different bowl? That isn't a consideration. We got what we earned. It certainly beats '07!!
Drawing a comparison to the announcement to Pearl Harbor on December 7, 1941, is wrong.
I agree that for the Seniors and the other players on the team, it will be great for them to play in the bowl. Those who suggest ND shouldn't have accepted the offer are WRONG.
John,
Outstanding piece! Couldn't agree with you more. Even if the Irish win, does anyone realistically beleive that learning-on-the-job Charlie gets it?
This joke has to stop and buying another year for a real coaching hire is probably the right move. But as you write, can you trust this Administration? Othe than Lou, just look at their results since 1981.
Notre Dame on TV beats its a wonderful life and miracle on 42nd street every time
gutsmo: as an alum, I can't quite figure out what the big deal is. The game is perfectly timed so you can race over to midnight mass! This is something that the players should enjoy so good for them. ND will win more games next year than this year. Let's not be spoiled little brats and whiners.
...ND is listed as a 2-point dog to a bad Hawaii team...amazing...
The anonymous poster, who stated Notre Dame should de-emphasize football truly has no clue what it means to be a fighting Irish fan, that was a defeatist statement if I've ever heard one, it was hoping to sound intelligent at best and Chamberlain at Munich at its worst. Imagine the New York Yankees who have not won a World Series in a few years saying well since we haven't won in awhile lets just fold the team. You should be ashamed of yourself for saying ND should throw in the towel with major college football, like the University of Chicago did, I'm sure Jay Berwanger would disagree with you, as well a great many of Notre Dame's alumni, current student body, and administration. Notre Dame is the greatest institution in college football. No school has as great a tradition as the IRISH and though times are tough right now Notre Dame will rise like a sleeping giant and when that season happens I will be proud to say I stuck with the Irish through the tough times. That's what made 1988 so special as the Irish marched through a hellish campaign of Michigan, Purude, Michigan State, USC, Penn State, and Miami, to defeat West Virginia in the Fiesta Bowl for our last National Title, make no mistake we will capture that national title again and be the Kings of the College Football Universe!
GO IRISH BEAT HAWAII!
The negativity comes from people defining themselves by the way ND plays and (hopefully) wins, thereby boosting self-esteem or creating a psychological sense of the world as ordered by a higher being. ND represents, to many, so much more than football:
a) the right way of doing things
b) never quitting
c) christian behavior
d) fierce competition
e) Catholic ideals
It's almost a manifestation of chivalry: ND players represent the knights of old, defending the castle, the home-turf, the women, the children, the religion and acting with justified ferocity.
THAT is why people get so upset.
When ND tanks, as it has in the past decade+, the world seems out of ORDER!
GO Vannie! You are spot on brother! Don't let the so-called catholics w/ their spirits as companions on Christmas Eve bother your thoughtful take on the current mess ongoing at ND. Eventually - folks will see and exclaim "The Emperor wears no clothes!"
I am close to taking ND Nation off my favorites list. The ONLY way for a football team to get better is to PLAY football. Get over the "Notre Dame should only play in big bowls" thing. Admit that there is virtually nothing CW or JS or ND can do that will satisfy you, and move on.
On the other hand, I am heartened by the many posters who took exception to your comments. Maybe there is hope.
This is the the sort of post that leads me to lose my job because it inspires me to respond, on work time (and reminds me of the cartoon with the guy who refuses to go to bed because "someone is wrong on the internet").
Notre Dame did not control when the accouncement was made (and, if ND were playing in a BCS game would that be better, given that it would have been announced on Pearl Harbor Day).
Last year, this team won three games. They should have won a few more with the athletes they had, but to win three games in a season is a nightmare for the Irish -- and for any big-time program. It drives away recruits. It stifles development and demoralizes a program. Yet, Weis managed to keep most of his recruits despite going 3-9. That, alone, was an accomplishment.
This year, Weis got them going in the right direction. On the win-loss side, he still only won six games. But, he beat up a couple of okay Big-Ten teams that we lost to last year. In addition, he's got better athletes coming in next year. This is a truly significant, as next year's juniors will all have been pursued by Weis. This should tell us how his kids perform.
Weis has maintained the academic requirements set forth by the administration, too. It may be that we're done winning national titles. Realistically, I wonder how we can return to that level with schools like Florida, Oklahoma and Alabama ahead of us. But, I am a believer. I think CW is going to get these kids to create holes for a running game and he's going to ensure Clausen has time to find receivers.
The one truism about some Notre Dame "fans" is this: ND was always better some other time. Two years ago, when we were in a BCS game, you were probably saying, "yes, but when Coach Holtz was around we were blowing out tougher opponents." Twenty years ago, when we last competed for a national title, you were saying, "Yes, but Coach Parseghian didn't have to get his chip against lowly West Virginia." The grass is always greener -- and things are always worse than they are.
I'm not saying CW is perfect. He's made mistakes. Why he chose to kick a 53-yard field goal after the kid just missed from 48 is beyond me. But, Charlie has proven he's competent by competing in two BCS games in his first two years. He'll get these kids to turn things around.
And it starts in Hawaii.
To comment #67 that ND beats watching...Miracle on 42nd St., it will take a miracle to beat the Hawai'i. They're not complaining about playing ND..To them, it's the greatest thing that could have happenned ..It's the only bowl televised that day. Also, this year they defeateded the New Mexico State Aggies ~ 25 miles from radium Springs!
I just don't get this post. This is not the first time ND has played on Christmas eve. I think that vailing the objection in religious indignation is misplaced. If ND were playing for a national championship and it was on Christmas eve. I think that objection would evaporate. I realize that the NC is not played on thta date, but my point is that you are using any objection to voice displeasure with the season. I know you are unhappy with retaining Weis. OK WE GET IT. But these kind of objections are not well thought out. It has the flavor of emotional and irrational responding. I can get taht on CNN or the newspapers. I want something with substance. That is why I have visited this website. If the posts continoe along these lines, I really see no sense in visiting. I was hoping for better from you.
About being non-deserving, I quess you never played or coached the game; you who preach pro-active recruiting.
Of course Oahu over Shreveport, Toronto,etc; you who moan about the advantage warm weather programs have.
Me; I'm gonna enjoy my traditional Christmas-Eve seafood laced feast, and go to my usual midnight Mass, with as much of my family as I can make happen.
What's wrong with some ND football, on TV, thrown in? If the "infomercials" or timing are issues, tape it or Tivo-it, or don't!
PS Know anybody who wants to buy Gator Bowl tickets?
Mike Coffey said:
"What are we supposed to do? Pretend everything's hunky dory? It's not."
I wish that there was a greater effort to differentiate between the players and the coach on these negative posts and articles.
I have no problem with multi-millionaire coaches being taken to task for their weaknesses and imperfections. I do, however, have a problem with Notre Dame alums turning their back on a group of 18-22 year old young men wearing the ND uniform. Watch the game, don't watch if that suits your mood. But this is NOT the NFL. The players ALWAYS deserve support and fan encouragement.
We are ND
If I didn't know better I might have mistook this for an Onion article. Good grief, as if Notre Dame is the only school that celebrates Christmas.
If you are saying that Notre Dame is no longer a great team yet you will give up on them like that you're obviously missing the main point here. If football should be second-class then you shouldn't care and just enjoy the bowls we do go to.
This trip is all about Manti Te'o leave it at that. He is one of the highest rated remaining recruits left along with Jelani Jenkins. He's a playmaker something we are sadly missing.
As far as playing on Christmas Eve, please everyone that's complaining get over yourselves true Irish fans would watch them while there wives were giving birth.
All I want for Christmas is a Notre Dame bowl victory.
Vince from CA said:
"As far as playing on Christmas Eve, please everyone that's complaining get over yourselves true Irish fans would watch them while there wives were giving birth."
Funny this comment was made because the night my youngest son was born was on New Years Eve '00and as the nurses, doctor, and I wheeled my wife to the delivery room, the doctor and I talked about ND Football all the way there. The Doctor delivering my baby just happened to be a Notre Dame Alum.
Back to the article written: It is pointless and unnecessary. Look, alot of fans are frustrated and as I've said in other post, if you're that disgruntalled with the football program than don't watch. Go be a sunny day fan for Florida or USC. Real fans support their team through good and bad times. Who cares if it is Christmas Eve, what better time to watch Christ's team. Not to mention the extra practice time, whether you believe the team deserves it or not, is extremely beneficial to the program. Also we lost to Syracus, GET OVER IT ALREADY. So you would rather have it that we lose a game like that and be humble and not play in any bowl game so we get nowhere in the future. You make no sense, you come off like you are a fan and a patriot, but you sound like a whinner. I'm sure you will read this and find some way to snap back at me, but really take a look at what you are saying. If you are a real fan stop comparing this bowl game to the disaster at Pearl Harbor, have more respect for those who gave their lives, and support this football program. I'm not saying you can't be angry, but this panic and anger is not helping this program, nor any recruit that may want to know what fans think, and it is getting old.
These are the facts (and I won't pretend like I'm and ND insider either, making comments for the kids on the team, because I'm not):
1. Wies is coming back, and good (trust me I will be one of the first to say he has to be replaced if this team can't turn the corner with the changes that will be made, but I will do it with respect).
2. It is apparent there will be some coaching changes at the assistant level just based off of Swarbricks press release.
3. Notre Dame Football has some of the most talent it's had in years assembled (so let's throw some support those kids way and bring up moral).
4. Your life will go on no matter what happens at ND
5. With God all things are possible.
Those are the facts as I know them, agree or disagree, those are the facts.
So Vannie thinks that this little "irrelevant" bowl game is too pathetic to waste his precious time watching, and he's offended by his alma mater's brazen suggestion that he modify his holiday plans. And we wonder what gives people the impression that ND fans are elitist.
ND gets the benefit of the doubt every time they are under consideration for a prestigous bowl game. Heck, 7-5 would have been good enough for a Jan 1st game this year, and 6-6 was nearly good enough for a Dec 31 game vs Oregon St. Meanwhile, Boise St and TCU had ten times the season that ND had this year and they got stuck playing an earlier game than ours? Where's their outrage?
The hypocrisy here is that had we qualified for the Sun Bowl the complaint would have been that ND's miserly administration did a money grab even though it knew they don't match up well with Oregon St, thus perpetuating the bowl losing streak.
We get the benefit of the doubt for the more prestigious bowl often enough, now it's our turn to take our medicine and play in a lower bowl game deserving of the 6-6 season we had, just as 2 other teams play on (gasp!)Christmas Eve every year. I don't recall Lou Holtz bitching that his son had to coach last year on Christmas Eve. Get yourself some real problems and stop whining about this one.
A true ND fan would not have a problem watching a football game on Christmas Eve. Our family holds the tradition of watching an ND football game as close to our hearts as we do the dinner we will eat and the time spent with family that evening.
For those that have a problem with the bowl game being played on Christmas Eve, the solution is as easy as turning off your television and not listening or commenting on the fact that they have earned the right to play in a bowl!
When you grow up singing the ND fight song instead of "Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star", you never lose faith.
Congratulations to the ND football team on being bowl eligible and to Charlie Weis for being able to come back and prove to all of those that have jumped off the band wagon that we will again rise from the ashes and that the dome will shine with all of its' glory.
Most of those that are now complaining about Weis are the same people that thought that he would be the most successful coach in ND history!
Remember, WWLD (What Would Lou Do?)!!!
Vannie is so right on (unfortunately). The days when ND would not participate in bowls are only remembered by old (very old) fans. I started on the ND fanship
in the late 1930's;listening on the radio to the great USC v. ND game.
Trying to catch the past is like trying to grasp the wind. I never thought I would be thinking of just skipping a bowl that had ND in it. But the halcyon days are long gone. The Subway Alumni is gone (in NYC those of us who were rabid ND fans). Can they ever repeat over the next decades? I strongly doubt it.
Christmas (Eve) will still go on. It will not stop because ND chose to play on that day. Toys will be delivered, prayers will be answered, and GO...sh (I didnt say it) ND will win the Sheraton, Teo come to our school, warmer weather, feet in the sand, go out end the season, plastic thing of many colors wrapped around my neck bowl.....lei?
...even though deep down, you already know.
For those that missed Todd Burlage’s star turn at Charlie Weis’ Nov. 11 press conference, here’s the question in question...
Obviously, I think everybody’s (email) inboxes in this room were stuffed over the weekend. And everybody wants to know, why are you the right man for this job, Charlie?
I’m not going to shoot the messenger – I’m fully aware that Todd was asking this on behalf of a disgruntled fan base. And Weis pretty much gave the diplomatic answer we could expect, since he realizes the futility of going all Mike Gundy on the press. So I’ll take it upon myself to explain to Todd, and those who felt enough need to know that he felt compelled to ask. Here, in a nutshell, is why Charlie Weis is the right man for this job...
1) Recruiting, Recruiting, Recruiting – To put it simply, Notre Dame hasn’t recruited this well since Vinny Cerrato skipped town. Clearly, much of the credit falls with a quality overall staff effort, with Rob Ianello leading the way (Brian Polian is a rising star, and most of the other assistants have contributed). But as head coaches go, you’d be hard pressed to find one that works as hard, and closes as well, as Charlie Weis. Even during last year’s on-field debacle, these guys pulled the No. 1 class in the nation. There’s no reason to think that won’t continue.
2) Getting It – As we’ve seen with some prior coaches, it’s not easy for someone that didn’t attend Notre Dame to really understand Notre Dame. Weis did – and he was here for the 1977 national-title run, so he knows what it’s like on campus when this team is winning. It’s not possible to overstate his passion for this place and his desire to return it to prominence. As I said just last week, you don’t care more than Charlie does.
3) Love Takes Time – To put it mildly, the program was in a state of disarray when Weis arrived, and he knew it. Sure, he could’ve gone for the quick fix (well, not entirely, since recruiting junior colleges really isn’t an option), but Weis came from the Belichick family. He knows the importance of building something to last, and doing that takes time. Will there be bumps on the way? Clearly. Is it progressing at the rate he’d like? Not across the board.
But this isn’t basketball, where one great class of NBA-ready freshmen can completely swing the pendulum. In football, when you’re building for the long term, the short term isn’t always going to be pretty. The tradeoff is well worth the wait, though. At least to him. And unless your name is Jenkins or Swarbrick, Weis doesn’t really care how patient you are. He’s going to keep doing it the right way, not the fast way. The quick fix is for coaches that are looking to move elsewhere. Weis is not.
4) Veterans’ Day – Those rising up against Weis now will point to the three top-10 recruiting classes he’s assembled and say that there’s enough talent to win more now. However...which of those classes is not a top-10 class? (Just say “the seniors” and nod.) According to ND Facts Machine Lou Somogyi, there has been one constant at Notre Dame – when a recruiting class falls outside of the top 10 nationally, the Irish fail to finish in the top 25 when that class becomes seniors. That has never not happened.
Since the 2005 class is the smallest and lowest-rated in school history, what were we really to expect? Good seniors beat great freshmen and sophomores – and for all the grousing about how much more talented the Irish are than Boston College, the senior classes don’t really compare. You’ll see on NFL Draft weekend next spring.
It may seem tired to bring up the recruiting sins of the previous regime in Weis’ fourth year (I’m tired of it too), but they’re still a factor, like it or not.
5) If Not Him, Who? – Notre Dame fans love to believe that this is still every coach’s dream job, but let’s face it – times have changed. Even with the athletic department now paying out competitive salaries, and even with the overhaul of the facilities, it’s a tough job to want. The academic restrictions make it tougher to recruit (which is why Weis’ success is all the more impressive). The media spotlight shines brighter here than at any other school.
And, perhaps most importantly, coaches aren’t stupid. They’ve seen how quickly the hook can come here. They know that the fan base and the alums are more impatient and demanding here than anywhere else. So if they can recruit more easily, get just as much money and take less heat somewhere else, why would they? Besides, would you trust someone like Nick Saban to “get” Notre Dame?
Finding someone who a) wants this job and b) is capable of doing it isn’t nearly as simple as you think. There’s a reason the last few coaching searches went the way they did.
I really don’t understand the quick and massive swing in public opinion. If there were one fewer turnover against UNC and the Irish are 6-3 with a win over a ranked team, the complaints would be substantially quieter, but would the team really be measurably better than it actually is? I’m not going to say that results don’t matter, because that’s the point of the game – but in a big-picture rebuilding process, which is what this is, those results need to be secondary.
The big thing is making sure the foundation is sound and the infrastructure works – and while I’m not going to pretend that The Plan is moving along perfectly, it’s reasonably close to being on schedule. Rookie mistakes (read: turnovers) essentially cost this team at least two games and maybe three. They’ve been competitive in every game so far (yes, even BC, although the line-of-scrimmage battle was certainly uneven there), something you definitely couldn’t say a year ago.
A get-rich-quick scheme seldom works. Just ask Wall Street. Charlie Weis is making the safe investments – and they’re not paying off yet, but they will.
Ryan O'Leary
I am so tired of people touting the extra practice time as a bonus.
Most of our coaches CANNOT coach! Every single offensive player - GT and Kyle Rudolph being the exceptions - got worse as the season went on.
If anything, these kids have had too much time with their alleged coaches.
I am writing from a vacation in Kona right now...and the Rainbow Warrior fans can't wait for us to get here.
That is sad.
I think you need a break from ND football. You are a great contributor, but your thinking as of late has been extremly negative. Maybe it is time to take a step back and get ahold of yourself.
Spending one Christmas Eve watching a football game with family is a perfect way to celebrate. I doubt my viewing the contest will change my Catholic standing too much. In the fall of 2000, my church had the audacity to schedule my daughter's confirmation on a football Saturday. I attended the confirmation to stay in my wife's good graces, not God's. We did end up beating Purdue on a late field goal which I listened to thru a tiny earphone. Good guys won and no lightning bolts have come my way yet. Might not be the same if I were a Michigan alum.
I agree with this article to some degree... I think that the negative articles are more based on a poor season record than on the fact that we're playing a game on Christams Eve. No one would be saying ANYTHING if the champioship game was on the 24th other than how were going to kick some butt! I understand that the BCS championship games are not typically on those dates...but you get the idea.
As a long time fan of ND I am glad the seniors are getting one last game, however it is sad to see that the program has suffered so much that we are worried at losing to a team like Hawaii. I am not a Charlie fan at all never was(I just don't think bringing Charlie back makes sense) but I hope they can pull off a win and restore some glory back to Notre Dame. Go Irish.
AD making a great decision here. The bowl pays $750k but the travel expenses for the team is estimated at over $2 million. A lot of money to lose for a loss.
I'm just jealous of the 175 non-football players/coaches (apparently the B747 charter had 275 passengers) getting a free vacation in Hawaii on my tuition dollars while I sit home with the rest of the ND band members.
I've been blessed to be in the band, and I wouldn't trade the experience for anything, but...
Call me selfish or bitter if you want, but Pittsburgh, Syracuse, and SC were not how I envisioned my last 3 games in a uniform.
Hope those admins enjoy their fruity drinks...
GO IRISH!
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