Set the Tone
posted by Mike Coffey
I decided to drag out a Mike Brey-ism for this one.
I realize things both on this blog and on Rock's House and Cartier Field have trended very negative, especially since the Syracuse debacle and everything that's happened since. I've contributed to it, both here and there, and have decided to take a mini sabbatical until things cool off. We're in a slow news time anyway.
But before I go, my question to the readership: What do you expect us to do in this situation?
A commenter to Vannie's entry from earlier this evening requested we stop being negative, saying he responded this way in the hopes that my fellow Ops and I would "read this message and those like it enough times you'll quit crying and go back to being a good resource for those who love Notre Dame and its football program".
The problem is, we're trying to be a good resource, and we don't think we're doing our job by pretending everything is fine when it's not.
Things are bad, and have been bad to varying degrees for the better part of 15 years. Plenty of people on campus want change desperately, including a lot of the players. We have yet to see strong leadership coming from under the Dome, or any indication they're going to get this fixed. We're left to hope for this and have faith in that and pray for the other, but have precious little evidence any of it will happen. It's very possible we may be sitting here next year in the exact same position with the exact same problems. History has shown us that tends to happen.
We've warned of the dangers. We've suggested solutions. We've encouraged people to share their thoughts with the school admin. We've given examples of what other schools are doing and what we think needs to change. But all we're getting in response is blow-back that we're "whining" and "being too negative".
You're our readers, you tell us. What are we supposed to do here?
I realize things both on this blog and on Rock's House and Cartier Field have trended very negative, especially since the Syracuse debacle and everything that's happened since. I've contributed to it, both here and there, and have decided to take a mini sabbatical until things cool off. We're in a slow news time anyway.
But before I go, my question to the readership: What do you expect us to do in this situation?
A commenter to Vannie's entry from earlier this evening requested we stop being negative, saying he responded this way in the hopes that my fellow Ops and I would "read this message and those like it enough times you'll quit crying and go back to being a good resource for those who love Notre Dame and its football program".
The problem is, we're trying to be a good resource, and we don't think we're doing our job by pretending everything is fine when it's not.
Things are bad, and have been bad to varying degrees for the better part of 15 years. Plenty of people on campus want change desperately, including a lot of the players. We have yet to see strong leadership coming from under the Dome, or any indication they're going to get this fixed. We're left to hope for this and have faith in that and pray for the other, but have precious little evidence any of it will happen. It's very possible we may be sitting here next year in the exact same position with the exact same problems. History has shown us that tends to happen.
We've warned of the dangers. We've suggested solutions. We've encouraged people to share their thoughts with the school admin. We've given examples of what other schools are doing and what we think needs to change. But all we're getting in response is blow-back that we're "whining" and "being too negative".
You're our readers, you tell us. What are we supposed to do here?
Labels: ndnation, notre dame administration, notre dame football
100 Comments:
Keep doing what you are doing. And thank you for doing it.
Please just stop. I, like many others, used to visit this site regularly. I have stopped doing so because of the out-of-control self-righteousness of many posters, including, most obviously, ACross. This site has become nothing more than an echo chamber fostering group think and shouting down any and all opposing opinions. As a result, I no longer gain value or insight from this site, and I visit it only when I have exhausted all other means of procrastination.
The only difficulty with the "tone" that I see is one, arguably, of limited perspective, particularly when analyzing or commenting on action (or inaction) by members of the administration. How often do members of Board Ops (never mind, for goodness sake, posters) try to find out what factors actually lie behind the executive decisions? It's naive to rely on public statements as representative of the actual decision making process or the reasons behind it. Executives at every level - corporate, political, scientific, etc. - speak in message points. They don't share the facts, as they see them, that underlie their decisions. I think we on this board too often fail to take in account our inability to see what's behind the curtain and give the benefit of the doubt to the execs' reasoning. The fact is, they're not stupid. They just sometimes say things that make us think they must be.
The biggest problem that I have had in the last few days is the hypocrisy that has been coming from so many posters here, especially you El Kabong. I have been reading this site for years, and I have always thought you did a great job of keeping the boards under control. Sometimes to the point where I thought you went too far by not letting certain topics written about, but now you have turned into one of those posters that you used to try to censor. Just look at this article, you say that "even some players want change." That as irresponsible as anything said on this site. Maybe I am reading too much into that statement, but it leads me to believe that you know of some players that want this staff gone. That is probably true, but it is also probably true at every program in this country. A coaching staff will never be able to make every player happy.
As far as the bowl game situation. This team deserves to go play in Hawaii. Your constant attacks on the University for choosing to play in Hawaii are rediculous, and not to the advantage of the University. These players have given everything they had for years and deserve to enjoy time with their teammates at a bowl site just like any other 6-6 team in the country. Do not blame this season on the players, the blame lies completely in the lap of Coach Weis and his staff.
If you don't want to be negative then give us your plan for fixing Notre Dame football so we can debate it.
Mike,
I think we all are frustrated, but here are some things we simply can't get around.
a. Charlie is here for at least another year.
b. A 6-6 Notre Dame team is going to Hawaii to play a 7-6 Hawaii team on Christmas Eve.
There were, and still are, valid reasons for both of those decisions, just as there were, and are, valid reasons if the administration had decided to go different routes.
The question is what do we do now that those decisions are made: persist in agonizing about them or give the team our support, even when decisions were made that we disagree with? I think you can help with the latter.
No one is expecting a blind case of denial, believing that things are where we want them. But the fact is that there is cause for hope as well. And the question that defines the level of a fan's devotion to Notre Dame is whether they will stick with it through thick and thin.
The last three weeks there has been panic in ND fandom. That's different from dissent. We are the most manic depressive fan base in collegiate athletics. Try to fight that panic when it wells up in your own minds, let alone in ours. Help us see things rationally as well as emotionally. Don't throw gas on the fire.
I think what all of us have to do is challenge ourselves here. A lot of our angst comes, I believe, from how much our own egos as ND alumni and fans are tied to the performance of the football team. We all have been taking beatings from friends and co-workers, and we are all sick of it. But maybe we should ask ourselves whether our self-image should be tied to the performance of ~100 18-22 year olds, which we cannot control.
I love Notre Dame football, and I am very tired of mediocrity. What frustrates me more than anything is unmet potential--with players, with coaches, with system. That said, Notre Dame means far more to me than Autumn Saturdays, and I cannot let my frustration with football detract from the many other things I love about Notre Dame or affect my support for her. I, for one, am not going to refrain from giving to the University because of coaching or bowl decisions. Why should I penalize a needy student, or a research center, or some other element that alumnus giving supports simply because the team didn't meet my expectations?
I guess as a sample of 1, I would say that I would expect you guys to help set a tone of not being oblivious to our shortcomings, but also not leading the vicious cycle of despair. Be a source of objective, well-considered commentary and faithful (not blind) support. You have a bit of a bully pulpit here, and the integrity with which you use it is most often defined by trial, not success.
My expectations of NDNation are far different than my wants for the Notre Dame Nation.
I expect NDNation to continue to degrade those not privileged enough to have a formal affiliation with Notre Dame (alums). I expect NDNation to set goals so lofty and outrageous for our program that no player, team, coach, AD, or president could ever achieve. I expect NDNation to continue to look at the Notre Dame Fighting Irish football program as an investment and continually make references and analogies to the stock market, CEO's, and other financial markets that simply have nothing to do with Saturdays in the fall.
I want Notre Dame to be a symbol of hope to millions, rather than a dollar sign. I want Notre Dame to be something the entire family can rally around to enjoy, say, on Christmas Eve. I want Notre Dame Stadium in South Bend, IN to be the most feared arena in the entire nation. I want to cheer for bloodshed in the name of Touchdown Jesus. I want for us to never be considered the underdog, no matter what the odds makers say. I want Notre Dame to produce 5 All-Americans and 55 Academic All-Americans every season.
I just want my Fighting Irish back. But I know that the only way to achieve that goal is to hit the 'reset' button on our program and there are far too many people 'invested' in the program to allow that to happen.
You say that the players want change. Do you just mean winning? It is difficult to believe that players would not want the coach that recruited them to not be there... Be more specific when you involve the players; otherwise it just sounds like projection, similar to a quarreling parent saying, "Well Johnnie says that he likes when I make the decisions around here."
Keep doing what you are doing. Keep us informed. Provide us information so we will know what is going on behind the scenes.
Maybe you can post important names and addresses at the top of Rock's house, so we can write important decision makers and we can let them know our thoughts and feelings.
I think it's fair and reasonable to be negative about negative actions and outcomes, to a reasonable degree and for a reasonable amount of time. The issue that I sometimes have with NDNation (the boards moreso than the blogs) is that there are issues with both. The same posters make the same points, again and again and again, when I think most reasonable readers got it when those posters made the point the first time.
It's not wrong to express disappointment or anger with decisions by the university that you don't like. The problem is when everyone dwells on the anger and resentment instead of accepting the situation and moving on.
My suggestion would be to pick your battles. And maybe you have been. But then it seems that different posters pick different battles and so there is always a war going on. And it's tiresome and I'm afraid counterproductive.
What's not been impressive is that rhetoric on the boards appears to be an implicit race to the bottom -- who can be more outraged, exhibit more vociferousness, and so on. The angst against all things at all times with TOTAL vehemence is way over the top.
What I'd like to see is some goddamn moderation, some willingness to see things in goddamn shades of gray. Instead, all we hear is that everything is midnight black (the end of ND football is drawing nigh). And every minor issue is treated as make-or-break for the future of ND football, which makes many of the men posting here appear an awful lot like spoilt little boys.
Finally, I think you should adopt a no-ad-hominem policy; not a zero-tolerance policy but an understanding that folks should stick to the facts rather than pillorying fellow posters. It would raise the level of discourse.
Keep doing what you are doing. Frankly, I think you and the Rock were way too drunk on the Charlie Kool-Aid for way too long, and therefore reluctant to see the obvious problems for what they were. And your naive happy talk over the past few years is part of the reason we are now still stuck with an awful coaching situation -- by conditioning fans out there to think everything was great, there was no outrage from the fans until very recently, and the university apparently sensed this and had the temerity to insult our loyalty and intelligence by wasting another year with Charlie.
I'd rather that we simply talk about football -- i.e., statistical analysis, recruiting, etc. This board can be so great whenever people talk football.
I recognize that things are not going so well with the program. And I'm done defending Charlie. But I'm not done defending the program, and the players, and the students.
Sometimes a team gets good simply because it develops a chip on its shoulder and always looks forward to fulfilling its potential. I think that notwithstanding all of the current obstacles to success, that sort of mindset could move mountains.
Will it get us to 13-0? Probably not. I don't think Weis is capable of going 13-0 in his lifetime. I don't think he will ever beat USC. But I do think he could continue to recruit well for the next 5 years, and could go 8-4, 9-3, or 10-2 just about every year.
We can develop some consistency and have some good times with what we have. And perhaps it will lay the seed for a very worthy successor.
Everything is so toxic about the program this week that I'm not sure that we could woo a worthy successor, or even if one could succeed here if we got him. Sometimes I feel like things get so negative that even Bob Stoops would fail here.
But some positive energy can help things.
And there's nothing pollyana about it.
It's just like Tiger Woods always says -- you can't hit a good shot unless you know in your mind that you will hit a good shot.
This program will not start to play good football until we believe it. And screw Weis. And screw Jenkins. And screw Swarbrick. Our players will do it without them.
Get busy living or get busy dying.
I am certainly in favor of people providing honest opinions. That being said, I disagree with the opinions voiced here that we should "decline" the bowl game. Although no one is happy with the way this season has gone, I don't think we should act like such a game is "beneath us". Alabama didn't decline their early bowl game after going 6-6 last year. I also seem to remember a 6-6 U.S.C. playing Fresno St. in an early bowl game back in the late 90s. Those proud programs weren't "too good" to go and face their sub-par bowl destinies for those particular seasons, so the least we can do as a team is show up and fight also. That elitist "we're embarrassed to play in a bowl game like that, so we just shouldn't play" attitude displayed by some fans just makes us look silly.
This doesn't mean that we should stop striving to be the best, or that we should be pleased to be in our current situation. It also doesn't mean those fans have to watch the game, but, I'm glad the University accepted and that the players are going.
Since when is , 8-4 or 9-3 or even 10-2 good enough for ND??
Coffey keep up the good work. There is a distinction between being needlessly negative and objectively critical. You guys get it right most of the time. I won't read NDNation if it becomes a haven for homers unwilling to critically evaluate the program and where it is headed.
Now ND knows what we felt like with Ted Tollner, Paul Hacket, and Larry Smith... for 11 years. It's not to say that Holtz was not an excellent coach, but USC was so poorly coached that they made ND look like world beaters. USC could not even hike the ball consistantly under Hacket... the "genus" offensive coordinator from KC and the Jets... sound familiar? My heart goes out to all. Let the series get back to the great ballgames we all were so fond of.
I thought this was going to be a positive article or, at least, not another negative article. This site is getting out of hand. We are all frustrated, but I plan on finding my ND info from other sources.
You are correct in your view of the state of Notre Dame football. Everyone who believes that the program is okay, or is headed in the right direction and claims that you are whining, is a bedwetter.
First of all, thanks to you and all of the moderators for providing an opportunity and a place where Notre Dame nation can come together. It is kind of like the argument people make about ESPN, the WWL, ruining sports. I think, at times, the banter back and forth between posters is negative, but certainly we are all grateful for having this opportunity. Notre Dame and Notre Dame football are both obviously important to all of us and this site allows us to share that love with others.
I've been a part of this community for a few years now, mostly as just a reader. I think what's going on here makes sense. Concerns about Charlie, Mr. Swarbrick, the administration, BOT, and the general direction of the football program are certainly well-founded. We are Notre Dame and we have different expectations than almost every other program in the country. We want to go 13-0, but we want to do it with class, outstanding student-athletes, and while maintaining the values and traditions of the school and those who love the school. Notre Dame is supposed to be an elite university and an elite football program.
I worry mainly about elitism on this site; elitism is certainly different than being elite. Mods and other posters who belittle other posters and decision makers are in danger of practicing elitism. Varying opinions should be respected if they have solid reasons for stating them.
The people in charge of making decisions at Notre Dame are not idiots. People who are idiots do not get to the position they have attained. While people may disagree with the decisions they are making, they certainly are not idiots because one doesn't agree with them. We're not privy to all the information that they had that contributed to their decision.
Disagreement and voicing of concerns are healthy. Attacking people with differing viewpoints and talking down to those who want to have a discussion isn't. This does not just go for the mods and board ops to the posters, but also the posters to the mods and board ops.
Thanks for giving us this forum.
-louraisedme
I have been a regular lurker for the past 5 years. I think you have gotten at least a half dozen or so comments so far that resonate with how I have felt about ND nation the past number of weeks.
In particular, I think domerdaughter offered a number of coments I agree with.
I think a sabatical is a good idea. I would also encourage ACross to consider taking one or be given one.
Finally, I agree with some of the different comments that have pointed out a number of postives of the Board that attract such a wide viewership of posters and lurkers. Good, thoughtful, insightful information about ND football. Often times it reaches the detailed level of a root cause analysis. At its best its facinating stuff.
And honest, thoughful criticism is expected. But the past few weeks has far surpassed anything that is helpful or constructive. I find that the volume and intensity of the negativity distracts and detracts from even valid criticism. Everyone ends up reacting to the negative emotion and bad vibes.
Finally, let me say I have long been impressed with the job Board Ops have done individually and collectively. While I think things have been off track recently, regardless of whether my comments here are of any use to you, I am optimistic you will find a way to improve things.
Good luck.
For those of you who hate Charlie and the admin. for their percieved destruction of ND football I suggest that you refrain from going to any games, watching any games, or participating in any University functions until your demands are met. Put up or shut up. Do something and stop just writing something.
When I began to frequent NDNation it was a great site for information on all ND sports. It still is that, but no contains so many negative articles that it is difficult to keep comming back - I will, like a car wreck I suppose, continue to view some, but not all. Hypocritical perhaps, but hey you asked the question not me.
GO IRISH!!!
I say stop the negative whining. At the start of the season everyone said at best we would go 7-5. Well here we sit 6-6, and I believe in great position for next year. Another coach, another 4 years rebuilding. You can't put full blame on Charlie, even though some is reasonable. 2 BCS bowl games in the first two years, and the best recruiting since probably the early 90's, but now he sucks. I love ND, and I think Charlie is the right choice. I bet any amount of money when he does great next year all the haters are back on the Charlie wagon. I say when he does do well, you that choose to bash him at every turn, give your tickets to those loyal fans that are willing to stand by a great man, and great coach. GO IRISH
The defensive line showed steady improvement, it now looks adequate.
Next year it could be somewhat above average.
Linebackers now look average or better.
Defensive backs well above average.
There is tremendous talent on the offense.
If there is a reasonably good or better, offensive line coach somewhere out there, and an offensive coordinator, both of whom are even decent motivators, could 2 finds like that make all the difference?
I guess there's no chance of stealing Matt Cavenaugh from Pittsburgh.
He seemed to call a perfect game against us.
I feel that Coffey and Rock have done a great service to NDNation to be honest.
I too long for the days when Notre Dame was feared.
I am a California native, and have taken a terrible beating the last few years with SC and I have to be honest..this last game..was awful.
I was at the O6 game with Brady and even then, I knew we didnt have a shot.
ND used to be a great program and it can be again, I just know it.
Yes, I think that Urban comes here a couple of years ago..and things are different.
But it's in the past. there's nothing we can do about it.
ND made some egregious errors in the past fifteen years...
one, LOU should have never left.
two...the O'Leary debacle...
three...TY...
four...the ten year contract to CW
and five...the fact that ND refused to give Urban his seven exemptions...yet...if history serves correct, Tony Rice was a prop forty eight guy.
FOLKS..lets be honest...we suffer from hubris...ND was arrogant..and we need to start over.
WE can do it..
Look at SC in the 90's.
Just have faith. and pull for the blue and gold.
Please CW...hire a decent OL coach...a decent qb coach and a decent...OC...
please please please
thanks to Coffey and Rock and Vannie
god bless
and GO IRISH
IRISH LADD
Been a reader (hardly ever a poster) for about 10 years, and share the same feelings as domerdaughter. However, I want to voice my opinion on the Bowl Game.
We should most definitely accept the Bowl Game. We are not above this type of bowl. That would be an awfully elitist attitude...especially come from a school that hasn't won one in a very long time.
But, more importantly, say what you want about Charlie and our 6-6 record this year, but these players without a doubt deserve to go to this game. These guys bust their *sses all year long, juggling classes, practice, and games. They never get to go on Fall or Spring breaks like the rest of us do. Most have probably never been to Hawaii. I'm sure they can care less that the game is Christmas Eve...they are going to HAWAII! And hell, maybe they will win. The oddsmakers are only giving us 1.5 points. I'll take those odds to get us our first bowl win in forever.
One more thing, for those complaining about how the travel will cost more than the bowl payout. Last time I checked, the players don't make a dime for their four years of service, but the school manages to make millions off of them. Don't bring money into it the one time that this team actually costs the school money.
...My two cents.
I believe most angles have been touched on and hopefully some improvements can and will be made.
However, I believe there is one major component that has been missed in all of this. It is vital that we remember that just as we all peruse this site, so do the current players and their families/friends. Combine that with the potential recruits and their loved ones. Critical evaluation and analysis is always welcome and appreciated but the trashing of the coaching staff and administration coupled with unfounded assumptions can be incredibly damaging. Trust me on this. PLEASE trust me on this.
I simply request that those on this site that truly have ND's best intentions at heart please take just a minute longer to think about their post before submitting.
Because after all, you never know if perhaps a vital recruits Mother might be reading.
That's all. Go Irish! Good Luck in Hawaii.
I was a player in the 90'. I have kept up with this blog and others since. I have always found it amusing at how many people claim to always support the team with the last sentence of a post filled with alternating venom and their description of their blocking scheme in high school and how much better it was. (I cut open a frog in high school. Doesn't make me a doctor.)
Like most I alternate between anger over incredibly poor technique, and pride over incredible effort. Sometimes more of one then the other.
There is a fine line in any organization between support and blind faith. I don't pretend to know where it sits. But I do know that at a place that claims to be different, we should figure out where that line sits differently then everyone else does.
And right now this blog seems to be like everyone else.
Things are never as good or as bad as they seem. Hmmmmm.
Things are bad on the board right now and I expect them to be that way for a few more weeks, or at least until we know what staff changes are being made and how the next recruiting class turns out. Not much we can do about it until then.
You guys have built a great site, and I appreciate the honest exchange of thoughts. But I rarely come here these days becaues the negativity has taken on a life of its own, and anything remotely optimistic is greeted with sarcasm and disdain. I think it's possible to play a role in keeping the University honest and fight complacency without devolving into what the boards are these days.
That said, I respect you guys and what you've built, and I know I'll be back as a regular at some point. I just need to let things settle down a bit.
I have no problem with people stating their feelings with possible solutions What I can not stomach is the name calling regarding our coach and the dehumanizing of him. Am I happy about what took place this season? No. But to bring up CW's weight, spygate, his so called arrogance etc. I am sick of it. Besides the 6 years from 1988-1993 this football program has been nothing but mediocre at best (post dan Devine). ND fans refuse to see and believe this. Does any real true and knowedgable ND fans actually think ND has the talent on this team to compete with OU, OSU, Texas, Florida, Bama, LSU, USC etc. etc? Look at the NFL drafts the past 10 years or so. Please tell me where the so called talent is. Until ND can stockpile talent like a USC we will not see a title for a long time. Plain and simple these are the facts.
“Just leave us alone.”
Well, I'm not gonna leave you alone. I want you to get mad! I don't want you to protest. I don't want you to riot - I don't want you to write to the administration because I wouldn't know what to tell you to write. I don't know what to do about the losses and the coaching and the inequities of college footabll. All I know is that first you've got to get mad.
You've got to say, 'I LOVE NOTRE DAME, Goddamnit! My voice has VALUE!' So I want you to get up now. I want all of you to get up out of your chairs. I want you to get up right now and go to the window. Open it, and stick your head out, and yell, 'I'M AS MAD AS HELL, AND I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE THIS ANYMORE!' I want you to get up right now, sit up, go to your windows, open them and stick your head out and yell - 'I'm as mad as hell and I'm not going to take this anymore!' Things have got to change. But first, you've gotta get mad!... You've got to say, 'I'm as mad as hell, and I'm not going to take this anymore!' Then we'll figure out what to do about the losses. But first get up out of your chairs, open the window, stick your head out, and yell, and say it: "I'M AS MAD AS HELL, AND I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE THIS ANYMORE!"
- Howard Beale
Your loyalty is not to the coach, the current players nor the administration. They are the caretakers. Don’t misplace your loyalty.
My loyalty is to ND football itself. This is bigger than the current players.
I don’t want to hear anymore crying about negativity surrounding the program. The negativity exists because the state of ND football stinks to Heaven and if you can’t smell it you better get your nose cleaned. You say I'm not supporting our players? Must be I'm too preoccupied with supporting the legacy that Rock, Leahy, Ara, Devine and Holtz built.
Do not attempt to silence my voice.
We invest our hearts into Notre Dame. Take it personal. Take these loses and poor administrative decisions personal.
I say get mad. Get mean. Get tired of losing! Rage! Scream it from the mountains. Because when we all stop raging, our souls will be dead and the spirit of this place that we love will be dead with them.
I'M MAD AS HELL AND IM NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANYMORE.
NMB
You guys do a great job. Too many of my fellow Irish fans would rather pursue their illusions and continue to drink the Kool Aid than see the reality that not all is right with God, Country, and Notre Dame.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with being negative. But please, please LOSE THE SANCTIMONY.
One of the reasons that people hate ND is because when our team stinks we have a tendency to compensate by acting like we're better than everyone else. Now that we stink ACross is correcting people's grammar like an ass and JVan is acting like Bill O'Reilly's lieutenant in the War on Christmas.
Are those the kind of people you would like to spend time with in person or online?
Keep doing what you are doing, just try not to "set the tone" as one of disgust and rancor - it's typically not the analysis on Rock's House or Notes from the Geetar or Vannie's columns that upset us "Pollyannas" who don't necessarily agree with your assessment of the current situation. What disgusts me, at least, is the rancor and vitriol that many posters come to the board with. Personal attacks, off-the-cuff, indirect insults and anything less than support for the players should be below Notre Dame alumni and subway alums alike.
I like to think that I'm part of a silent majority out here who can't stand the nastiness that pervades on these boards these days, and most of us just choose to tune out, or at least not jump into the fire.
Please continue to keep us informed, continue to provide analysis, and continue to make suggestions. About the only thing I can think is that it may behoovethe quality of discussion if the boards and comments sections were patrolled more tightly (with all your free time, I know), and perhaps a slightly different tone was set than "Christmas for Sale at ND".
I will second the comments of Kris H., Michael, and the former player.
I will add a couple other thoughts. First, the time for commenting on whether Weis should stay has passed - the University has made its decision. If you are a genuine supporter of this football program, then you accept the decision and move on with a positive and constructive attitude. Doing so is not only in the best interests of the program, but in your best interests as well.
The fact is, if you strip away your emotions - your frustration and bitterness of the last 15 years - you should be able to see that the new AD made the right decision. Swarbrick is going to get this football program on track, but he is not going to make the mistakes of his predecessors. We can't expect this guy to come in and hire a new head football coach in December, when he has been at ND for less than five months! I don't want him to do that because he will most likely make another bad hire. I don't think this program can afford another bad hire. I want him to be intimately familiar with Notre Dame - administrators, staff, alumni and other supporters. I want him to have plenty of time to make contacts, explore options, and formulate a plan.
Moreover, the recruiting pipeline is still intact, so there is no urgency. He can, and should, wait another year. He's got some time here to plan, so let him take advantage of it. If Weis does not produce a significantly better team next year, then there will be unanimous agreement he should be replaced. We will know by the midpoint of the season. This would put pressure on Weis to forego a full contract buyout, or else go down as the most infamous head coach in ND football history.
If emotions are set aside, the best choice is to wait. And remember, Weis could still succeed, it all depends on whether he can put his ego aside and make the appropriate changes. He came into ND thinking he had all the answers and knew how to be a successful HC at ND. We now know he has some important deficiencies. If he would hire good assistants to cover his deficiencies and trust them, then things could improve rapidly. The question is can Charlie set his ego aside for the benefit of the school he claims to love, and are there any good assistants who would want to work under Weis given his track record of being a poor manager of people and players.
Finally, I want to echo Michael's comments about elitism on these blogs and other forums. In addition, I want to point out that, as a fan, there are some feelings and opinions you just don't express in a public forum like this because it is detrimental to your team. I know it gives you some fleeting satisfaction to be able to lash out publicly at the coaches and players because they didn't give you the result you wanted, but to do so is immature, self-serving and destructive. Well-reasoned criticism might be justified, but hyperbole and venom are repugnant and destructive. As a father, I sometimes have thoughts about the behavior of my kids that I would never express to them because, no matter how justified those thoughts may be, to express them would be destructive and counter-productive, leading only to more of the same behavior. Instead, I keep those thoughts to myself and wait until my emotions have dissipated before I address my kids. My goal is to change their behavior and be a source of strength and confidence for them, not a source of doubt and anxiety.
I am relieved that Swarbrick had the wisdom and conviction to wait a year before making any changes at the head of our football program. It was the right move, and the program will benefit in the long run from that decision. As the saying goes, it is always darkest before dawn. It is hard to see at the moment, but the football program is on the cusp of a return to national prominence.
Notre Dame has not challenged for a national championship nor won a bowl game in 15 years. Under 3 different coaches we have suffered record numbers of losses and blowout losses and are in the middle of long losing streaks against teams we have beaten regularly or at least been competitive with (USC, Michigan St., BC). During that span we have lost the lead in all-time winning percentage and have dropped from 2nd to third place in all-time wins. (We had a 33 game lead over then No. 3 Texas as recently as 1996.) Over the last three years our rushing "attack" has had consecutive historical low per game averages. Even with stellar recruiting classes things are showing no signs of getting any better. So, to answer your question, you are right on the money. You are telling it like it is and you should continue to do so.
It is fine for people to have differing views of whether or not giving Charlie another year was the right move. However, the bottom line is that he is coming back and anyone who cares about the program needs to support him and this team. There is no doubt that sites like this one that become overly negative are read by players and recruits. Venting about the last 15 years is not helpful to anyone. If we have this same conversation next year then so be it, being negative now doesn't change that either way. Charlie is coming back for 2009 and hopefully beyond that if things go well. I just hope that all the fans who are giving up on Charlie and Notre Dame football aren't given a seat back on the bandwagon when things turn around. These people don't deserve to feel proud and walk around with their chests puffed out when things go well if they are quick to run for the hills when times are tough. When Notre Dame loses my heart breaks everytime and doesn't recover until we win again, but the level of venom being spewed on this site and others only makes things worse. I still believe in ND and while I don't agree with everything that has happened under Charlie I will fully support him since he is and WILL BE our coach next year. I believe most Irish fans and alumni feel the same.
I like to visit NDNation for the links to news articles (especially Mike Frank). However, I stay off blog sites like Rock's House, etc. to avoid the myopic views and rude comments of supposed fans.
I love Notre Dame, win or lose, what tho the odds. I love being the underdog now. I have incredible respect for CW's knowledge, work ethic and humanitarianism. My experience has been that perseverance is necessary for success. With confidence, I await the break-through moment for Charlie and this team. Time will tell. In the meantime, I'm rooting for this staff.
NDNation is becoming something they've despised...a whining outlet. I'm beginning to see why some are ignoring this community completely. What once was a great forum has now become the pervue of a few. If you consider yourself Notre Dame men then grow up! Points have been made but your self-importance is wearing thin and your future impact will be diminished considerably.
I don't find that you guys have been too negative, mostly because that is the current state of the program. I am amazed that anyone thinks that we can be a BCS team anytime in the future. Consider the following:
1) The offensive line remains the worst group of blockers in the history of the program. How can they possibly improve next year to become competitive? JC's decline in performance is directly related to the OL lack of skills.
2) The receivers are at best MAC quality. Floyd is good but not exceptionally fast. Tate is good but not a great route runner. Let's face it, good is NOT BCS.
3) The linebacking performance is over-rated, especially with Crum making 1-3 good plays a game and 9-10 horrible plays. We never see the replay of him running the wrong way! How many plays do you watch and say, "where are the linebackers"?
4) The play-calling is worse than when Lou was so concervative. At least Lou had Bettis and Watters and a solid OL. CW play-calling is almost comical. He calls plays like he is playing PlayStation. He never competed and he just doesn't know.
5) The DB continue to improve but they were unable to stay anywhere near the Evil Empire's wide receivers.
6) Finally, if you had to pick a starting team from the 44 starting players on ND-USC, I can't find one position that you would pick an ND player. Maybe Floyd, but he didn't play against the EE. Their 4th running back was better than any of our three guys!
I love ND football, but am realistic about our future.
I suggest you stop posting whiney "poor me, what am I supposed to do" articles like this one. That would be a good start.
I think over the past year or so NDNation has started becoming a bit of a joke. It is sad, but true. I know plenty of alums (and subs) who just don't take anything from this site seriously anymore. We are all people who used to read the message boards all the time to get information and opinions. Now we just sort of make fun of them.
You know what you're going to get before you even log on. You're going to see a bunch of people having a competition to see who can be more outraged about something.
And using the excuse "Well we're outraged because X is happening and it's horrible!" isn't any good. Plenty of people realize what is going on and are pissed. But NDNation takes things to another level.
Example: keeping vs firing Charlie. Out of all my fellow alums, I'd say it was 50/50 on keeping or firing him. That doesn't make us idiots. We are very passionate and very knowledgeable about the program. There were good arguments on both sides of the table. But NDNation was probably 90% "Fire the fat man now!" Even trying to argue the other side wasn't worth it.
The decline of NDNation's usefulness is coming at a time where there are some very good ND blogs popping up. I'd suggest making a change before your site becomes totally irrelevant. I hope you do.
Kris H -
Well said! You summarized my feelings exactly.
The problem is really negativity – it’s the loss of perspective. And the resulting conclusion that Weis must be fired.
Anything positive is now completely forgotten or ignored by the lynch mob, while the unknowns are all concluded to be some sort of sinister cover-up.
Examine some facts that make an argument for keeping Weis:
- Could’a-shoulda doesn’t count. But to fairly evaluate the performance, any reasonable account finds that if 3 specific, uncharacteristic plays gone a different way, we’re looking at 9-3. It’s a fair judgment if these plays are common. But it’s lunacy to sit here today and lambaste the coaching staff that turned a 3-9 squad into a team that close to 9-3 the next year .
- The Navy game: we’ve gone from accurately pointing out the bad referee call on the first onside kick (fairly ended the game) to accepting that there was some significant problem with handling an onside kick. No, they won the game the first time but the ref tied their hands behind their backs.
- The sentiment, “can’t develop players” continues to be echoed. Ever heard of Golden Tate, Armando Allen, Jimmy Clausen, the entire defense? Compare this year to last year. I suppose they just developed themselves.
Rudolf’s development within the year.
The offensive line – there’s no argument they are bad, but they are much better than last year.
Seriously.
- Larger picture: What did Davie and Willingham ever accomplish on a large scale? Weis walked in the door and went to two straight BCS bowls. They were losses, but he put the team in a position to be there.
- Year 1, Holtz turned a 5-6 team into… a 5-6 team. Weis came in a turned a 6-6 team into 9-3. But now it’s decided that Holtz was a better coach.
- And this is the real killer: What message are you sending to {name your replacement}? Only 2 BCS bowls in 4 years and you’re fired.
Are things in great shape? Absolutely not. But the future with this coaching staff looks far better than it ever did with Davieham.
If Gruden was available, yeah, let’s make a change. Otherwise, it’s hard to make a case for anyone else.
Urban Meyer? Do we really want somebody of his character coaching the team?
What about the guy from (choose a successful school that hasn’t played anybody)?
Frankly, I’m willing to give another year to a coach who took a mediocre Willingham squad to back-to-back BCS bowls over a guy who’s a question mark against upper-echelon opponents.
"One more thing, for those complaining about how the travel will cost more than the bowl payout. Last time I checked, the players don't make a dime for their four years of service, but the school manages to make millions off of them. Don't bring money into it the one time that this team actually costs the school money."
It has nothing to do with the players. You can't have Father Jenkins writing about how we should save the University money and then send the football team on a trip that will do nothing but lose money. You can't have it both ways. We either need to save or we can afford to throw money away. The actions of the University are saying we can waste money. I'm fine with that, just don't go asking me to conserve.
"And using the excuse "Well we're outraged because X is happening and it's horrible!" isn't any good. Plenty of people realize what is going on and are pissed. But NDNation takes things to another level."
I'm outraged someone can post this on this blog. It's horrible.
Let's "Cheer cheer for old Notre Dame". Not "Cheer, Cheer then demand the coach is fired."
Obviously the past three firings haven't worked. It all started when Holtz was forced out, now you're suggesting he's brought back.
Let's try to support our team.
The problem is you and others have now made your points about what is wrong and needs to be changed many times. There is nothing new in the negative, whiney posts that fill these boards. There is nothing new and noteworthy. If you cannot add a new insight to the discussion, you should just shut up, and I think the ops should adopt and enforce such a policy.
More than that, I think the unfair swipes at Swarbrick need to stop. He didn't create this mess, and he needs some time to develop a solution. There have been many who have simply been wrong in their speculation-based harsh criticisms of his performance to date.
The over the top comments extending the negativity to the entire University and the manner in which the administration is leading it are just wrong. Notre Dame is a fine school and a fine place doing many wonderful things. All of us, alumni and fans alike, can and should be proud of the accomplishments of the members of the community who contribute to these accomplishments. And we need to have some faith. Notre Dame has been around for over 160 years, and the football program has been in existence for over 110 years. Both have succeeded before any of us came on the scene, and both will continue to do so well into the future. Criticize and recommend all you want, but let's not lose our faith that both our alma mater and its football team will endure and prosper.
I don't think withdrawing our support at this point will help to turn around the future of the football program. Swarbrick and Jenkins and the others in leadership are intelligent and preceptive. They know there are problems. Let's support them while they try to get things turned around. They have both more power and more information to influence the outcome than we do.
We are ND, not ND football. We love the University. Our Lady is that "shining beacon on the the hill" or at least above a dome and the lakes. That coaches like Ara, Lou and even Gerry understood and loved the place for what it stands for outside of the stadium pushed the performance inside. At least Charlie has returned the program to being in honor but not in spite of Our Lady's school.
The thing that always drove us in the past was our competitiveness. Within the soul of every Domer beat the heart of a lion that wanted to be the best. When I was there, 70-80% of the male students were varsity athletes in high school; somewhere in the 50% range were captains of a varsity team. Touch football games on the quad used to draw blood. We shook hands at the end of pick-up basketball games that resembled close combat if the scores were close. And so, the need to succeed is in our marrow.
Our program has seen better days. I do not know how the student body compares to my years there, but since these kids are the sons and daughters of my classmates, I would hope that the competitive fires still burn. We are afterall a legacy university. The competitive fires need to burn from within the general population. The emotion that the players seem to be missing may very well be a symptom of an overall malaise. We need to get back to the understanding that at our core we have always stood for and competed for excellence in every thing we do. That more than anything is what needs to be fixed.
The Fighting Irish have never quit on the field or on the court or in the classroom. We have never dropped our heads so quickly as we have these past two years. We need to fix that first and then move on. We need that swagger that WE ALL HAD. And if people think that we are arrogant, we are ND.
Start kicking posters off. You kicked me off a year ago for a lot less than what current posters are saying.
...as a "stop-gap" measure...Weis should take his linebacker crew and convert them to offensive linemen...
...I have never seen a group of players that have been so ineffectual as this group of people going through the motions...
...someone said it earlier so I'll paraphrase..."my lasting memory of this offensive line is during or after the play, having them glance back over their collective shoulders at Clausen being tackled for a 9-yard loss...or a tailback stopped for no gain"...then they huddle without emotion and the memory/nightmare begins again...
...at least with the converted linebackers they would at least try to pop someone...I'll take pop (dare I say "nasty?) over complacency any day...
I think the original commentary as presented was critical but constructive. But the decision has been made - we need to change course and support Charlie, even though odds are it will end badly. We need to see the chnages he makes and see how next year turns out. There will be plenty of time to discuss shit-canning him next year if there is not considerable improvement. The optimistic view is that a few changes will get a positive momentum going again, and some success on the field will be self sustaining. The pessimistic view is that it will be more of the same. At this point, we are in the situation we are in, and nothing is going to change. So we support our guy for now and hope for the best. Continuing to complain about the decision isn't helpful. Plus, it is not certain at this point the decision is wrong. We should accept it - for now - and see how things go, as not accepting it just generates negativity. Too much of that and it will become a self fulfilling prophecy. Charlie has made mistakes. Big ones. Lots of them. But he took the job when few wanted it (some behind the scenes suggestions to the contrary notwithstanding) and has worked hard to bring ND back to glory. He may not be the right guy for the job, but when you look at the body of work (2 BCS bowls in 4 years, although the order is not ideal) he deserves one more year to fix it. If things don't trend in the right direction, I will be right with you calling for change. But now is not the time. We called - the admin, who knows way more than us, went another direction. Nothing will change that now - we just need to be as supportive as we can at this point and hope for the best. Belaboring the point of change does much more harm than good at this point.
1. What I mind is the shouting down of any poster that defies the groupthink. It seems to have started with the Great Scheduling Debate. A genuine discourse devolved into a Two Minutes Hate, as those in favor of increasing the difficulty of the schedule (during a 3-9 season) pretty much stomped out any debate with personal attacks. I stopped reading for a while because it just wasn't interesting or pleasant. So it goes, far too often these days. I agree mostly with the above comment that I wish we would just discuss football more often, and perhaps look for something positive to say about the Irish now and again. Even if we have to force it.
2. Is NDNation now the loyal opposition? Whatever the party in power does or says will be inevitably criticized (A bowl game on Christmas Eve? Disgusting! etc.) It's becoming a gathering of like-minded individuals, rather than a meeting ground for the Notre Dame family.
I know you're smart enough to understand the difference between a well-reasoned opinion with stated preferedalternatives and plain old bitter carping. Vannie's post was just carping about anything and everything. It is clear that you guys are smart people who generally know how to shape a good argument. So before you post things like Vannie's post, read it through, have a beer, read it again, and then decide whether the post adds anything. Like Lumbergh said, "always ask yourself, is what I'm doing, good for the company [or website]." If you just get on here and flame everything and everyone, who wants to read that? If we should have declined the bowl, why? I personally think we can use all the practice time we can get.
This comment thread has been perhaps the most depressing string of posts ever left on or with NDNation. The "Anonymous" internet tough guys, the continually resetting expectations downward, the trashing of our players (I'm looking you right in the eye, James), the "give them the benefit of the doubt; they're not stupid" posts, despite all decisions over the past 15 years demonstrating that the benefit of the doubt is no longer warranted. Just depressing, nearly the whole lot of you.
I remember a Notre Dame that took pride in excellence, and fought to achieve it (as in, actually fought, not simply paying lip service to fighting as part of a catchy little slogan). I remember a Notre Dame that blazed hew own path when the doors were closed to her. I remember a Notre Dame that didn't try to get along with everyone else, if getting along with everyone else meant compromising her stated principles. I'm not all that old (33), so maybe I just remember this Notre Dame because of my father. I certainly don't see her any more. What I see instead is trying to get along to make US News and World Report happy. What I see instead is an institution that has grown exponentially in wealth and prestige, and as a result has apparently lost her connection with her own history, and thus lost her way.
What I see here at NDNation is the only place on earth where Notre Dame's institutional history is respected. NDNation reveres Notre Dame's history, and we collectively hold Notre Dame to the standards to which she previously held herself. We understand and appreciate how critical championship football is to Notre Dame, her history, her culture, her community, her family, and her future.
Unfortunately, I am also beginning to see that we at NDNation are becoming ever more of a minority as more and more of you who "don't get me wrong, I love ND football" continue to accept the mediocrity being force-fed to us. Don't worry, folks, there will be plenty more room for you on the bandwagon when Notre Dame completes her final capitulation, and Chuck Lennon raises the roof before the Big Ten Championship Game at Lucas Oil Stadium.
What a profoundly sad string this has been.
I have always loved NDNation since discovering it in 2005. Of all the many sites I visited, you guys were always the best and the most anchored reporting to be found.
And then, after the Syracuse game, you turned. And it got ugly fast. Suddenly, all of your calls for moderation and reason going into this season were forgotten. You talked about how hard it was to ditch Charlie, but it really didn't SEEM that hard, particularly as the vitriol on the board increased.
Go back to doing what you do best... look at what we have, what we need to get better, and the best ways to do it. The Bucket list was a good start. Charlie is sticking around, so let's work on ways for him to improve, not ways to get him fired. We're gonna be playing in a crap Bowl, so let's focus on ending the streak.
Post on the negative when it is there. Just don't dwell on it. Because we want Charlie to become the Coach we thought we were signing to that 10 year deal, right?
JV...
Here's the thing. There is a difference between analysis and commentary. If your objective is commentary than you should write whatever you want. We can choose to read it or not. I for one have grown weary of all the complaining about CW's return. The deal is done. Move on.
If you want to engage in thoughtful analysis, write about the upside and the downside of playing in the Aloha Bowl. Your last column was absent that, so I must assume that you prefer commentaary to analysis. Your perogative to write, my perogative to not visit the site.
In truth, the problem is exacerbated by the overwhelming snarkiness of most posters here. Most comments sound as if they come from 14 year olds without much real knowledge of what they write. Here's the thing; CW is back. Jack kmade his decsion. I trust either of them more than anyone I see posting here. If CW doesn't succeed, Jack will take action. Of that I am sure.
None of us know what the next two seasons will be like. Just give it a rest and tell us something insightful and balanced about ND football.
I must say that I was heartened by the number of responders to your article who are weary of the complaining. It gives me hopr for humanity. Happy holidays.
Thanks for asking.
(1) It's easy, really. Don't automatically look to complain about everything. There are lots of things to complain about, but when you just take on everything it makes you look silly, and it makes this place insufferable.
There was nothing at all wrong with the bowl choice they made, given the situation they were in. You're mad about the situation, not the bowl. Complaining about the selection just makes you look like a whiner.
When it comes to Weis, you've said your piece. Now deal with the fact that there's another year of him. Instead of writing fanciful pieces about when Jesus will come to coach Notre Dame, with Leahy and Holtz at his sides, write about what needs to be addressed for the coming season (realistically, not: we need a defensive line that could play for the '85 Bears).
The USC loss was another example of this. Not a person who comes here who gave rational thought to that game was surprised by the outcome. Were there lessons -- painful ones -- to be learned? Yes. Focus on that, rather than the sky which, near as I can tell, still hasn't fallen.
The take on Swarbrick, I think, is another example of how ridiculous things have been here. The guy is new. He's come into a situation that is less than perfect, but his options aren't great, either. Just because he evaluated the situation with Weis differently than you doesn't mean he's an idiot, a lemming, a traitor, whatever.
That leads me to the last point. Try not to act like yours is the only valid opinion or the only opinion that matters.
When the writing here focuses more on opinions and venting than on substance, what's going on on the field, the locker room, and around Du Lac, it's not pretty.
I've enjoyed reading this site quite a bit over the years, and sometimes take the time to post on your message boards, but, man, it's been really awful lately. It all comes back to (1): don't complain just for the sake of it.
You have an obligation to ALWAYS be fair in your comments, and to promote what should ALWAYS be in the best interest of our football program.
In my opinion, those best interests are not being served. And they have not been, for a long time now.
You people/alums old enough to remember, what we have seen for years now is NOT keeping in the great tradition of Notre Dame Football. It's sad. Even disgusting.
Honestly, I don't believe that Charlie Weis will ever be a great Notre Dame head coach. Ever.
I believe that next year we will continue to be out-coached and out-played in key games. I believe that our team will continue to be ill-prepared and poorly motivated. I believe that those 4 and 5 star recruits will NEVER play to their full potential. I believe that it is ALL on Charlie Weis: "The Worst Head Coach in the History of Notre Dame Football." Our football coach. The face of Notre Dame. How pitiful is that?!
I'm sick of what's happened. And I don't see any short-term solution. That is, nothing short of firing Weis after next season, and hiring a successful college head coach who has a decent chance to correct this mess.
~mpsND'72
I am not a regular at this site but find it slightly more literate than some of the others.
Been an ND fan since I heard the USC v. ND game on the radio in 1939 Sadly, I must say that the significant social/cultural/financial factors that affect college football are often denied by fans (not just ND fans). The decisions made by the Bd. of Trustees and others are bottom line- money, and everything else. Unless you are "in the know"
at the highest administrative or governance levels, you really can't analyze accurately what decisions are made and why. In our society, even in these bleak times,most decisions revolve around financial matters.
I have no problem with critical commentary. The reason I visit the web is to gain insights into an issue. The noninternet media by and large does a poor job of real research detail and accurate analysis. This web site has, in recent weeks, evolved into a theme of no matter what Weis, the AD or the Administration does it is wrong. I am as frustrated as anyone with the results on the field but I see positives as well as negatives.
Giving a scolarship to a longsnapper who does nothing but that(something ND has never done before) shows a real concern for special teams. Nothing from this site has even mentioned that. There are some good things happening. And yes, I agree with the majority of posters above that it made no sense to oppose going to a bowl. It smacked of sour grapes. Was that one of those "the beatings will continue until the moral improves" deals. I'm glad they are going to a bowl game. I believe that if they win, it will be a big positive going into next year. In addition it will send a message to recruits taht are on the fence and tryibng to decide that this program is headed in the plus direction. I just do not see everything as negative.
Domer Badger is right. Grinding the criticism into the ground..er..web is nonproductive. Let's get some good posts going.
Domer Badger: Love the 86 Bears comment!!
What's done is done. Charlie is coming back like it or not. I, like everyone else have waiting for fifteen years for Notre Dame football to find its way back to the top where they belong. No amount of complaining by people on message boards is going to change a thing and quite frankly its become quite tiresome. I'm ready to support the team in the Hawaii Bowl and I'm ready to support them next year. I hope we are thrilled and amazed at the positive changes we see. If nothing changes then that will be the time for the coaching situation to be addressed.Until then I'll be cheering for my Irish like I always have and always will.
I'd say demand excellence and refuse to accept excuses. To do other or less is an afront to everyone involved, including (and perhaps especially) the man who wrote the book on the subject.The site seems to be doing just that.
Tone is a tricky thing in the written word. I can write "The administration needs to do whatever it takes to correct this" in a venemous, spittle laden scream or I can say it with matter-of-fact dignity. Judging another's "tone" simply because they are blunt and terse is often not possible.
I think you are doing just fine. the pressure being applied is adequate, the new guys (even Fr. Jenkins) are very likely acting in good faith, and next year will resolve the matter--one way or the other. NDNation has played some role in that.
I believe that many of the posters are missing the problem. Notre Dame is a university with a proud academic heritage as well as a storied football past. Until ND can recruit very skilled players that are also great students we are doomed. We do not want to be a USC that barely graduates its players. Charlie's recruits have been very good but they are not all superstars. They are well rounded individuals going to a premier university. I like it that way. Go Irish.
Put away the pitchforks, flaming torches, tar and feathers. We are all frustrated by the 15 years of mediocrity. A number of commenters have already asked for you and your colleagues to be more positive. I would make the additional suggestion that should Charlie succeed next year or should he fail and a new coach hired lets not rush to label either one the next robot genius or second coming for ND football. Let try to be balanced here no more unbridled enthusiam or abject despair. I truly believe in Lou's quote "You're never as good as everyone tells you when you win, and you're never as bad as they say when you lose" I think what these lofty expectations have done is even devalued wins and taken the joy out of them. I for one am going to try and enjoy the upcoming bowl game for the potential positives it can bring to the program and not agonize over what a loss might do or paint everything else in a negative light. Maybe everybody needs to take a christmas break from it all, you guys, ndnation etc...watch the bowl game if you are so inclined and see what changes the new year brings.
Bill Walsh couldn't win with this team. The talent is too young at this point, and don't say that isn't valid because it is.
I know that this was last year's argument, but it's still true. The best player on the team is a freshman. Everyone else of significance are sophmores. The best impact player ND has of upperclassmen is Mike Anello.
Wait until these guys develop before we start calling for firings.
Go Irish
First. Set the tone-currently it is very negative. If that is what you want then you are succeeding.
Second. I have no idea who any of the posters are but, I seriously doubt if any are now, or ever have been, Athletic Directors or Head Football Coaches at or near the ND level. As a result, I figure one poster's opinion is as valid as another which makes the personal attacks make the attacker look like a high school kid. Can't convince them with words-then shout and scream. Whether you have the power to get people to moderate their behavior I have no idea but I think it is worth a try.
Since I find the shouting on Rock's and Cartier a waste of my time I usually only use this site as a quick link to the articles in the papers-thank you for those.
Jim Pattison
Since you asked, I'll repeat what I wrote after the "selling Christmas piece"
I have no problem with multi-millionaire coaches being taken to task regarding their perceived failings. The high profile and high income should be ample justification for the fire.
The players and team, however, are another matter. This is NOT the NFL. The players are 18-22 year old kids who are balancing a tremendous amount of things at one time. Yes, they are on scholarship, but they are earning every penny. One of the greatest moments in my recent memory was Mike Gundy's rant at the "reporter" who attacked on of his players in the newspaper.
So, what should you do, in my opinion? Question the administration and the coach when the facts merit. But always, ALWAYS, support the players, the team, and the University!
One last point. This year was certainly a failure. But some of the "failure" was ours---expecting far too much from still far to few truly talented athletes. An example, you say?
Last year Demetrious Jones started at quarterback for ND. This year he is playing for the University of Cincinnati...AND IS THEIR FIFTH STRING QB!!!!! The only real playing time he gets is on special teams. Hence, UC is in the top 15. We still have a ways to go in the talent DEPTH area to make it to any big bowl.
The tone is too negative for me, but I'll still read. But please stop telling people not to contribute to the University. Let's not let football sentiments get so out of whack that you forget all the good things ND stands for -- especially service. Notre Dame Magazine is one class act and its descriptions of the many truly important things that matter to the University, its faculty and grads is heartening. So my request of you is for more perspective. And I'll keep reading because I love the football as much as anyone else. Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to all.
I consider myself one of those people who look for NDNation to be a “good resource”. I am not looking for instruction on whatever consensus has been reached by the regular board posters. There seems to be too much of an emphasis on trying to reach a consensus on every issue, and once that consensus is reached the alternate views are immediately shat upon. For me, being able to read multiple viewpoints on the same subject would make NDNation more of a “good resource.”
I’m okay with the website being used as a catalyst for change and voicing displeasure with the current state of the program. But there are certain things that I do consider to be whining. What I consider “whining” is complaining about both sides of a decision. For example:
1. Many who have complained that they should have fired Weis, would have also complained after we hired anybody other than a Tier I. And we know there were no Tier I’s available this year. That is whining.
2. Many who have complained about the Hawaii Bowl decision would have complained just as much if they went to the Texas Bowl. That is whining.
3. Many who have complained about the low quality of our bowl opponent would have also complained if we got matched up against a tougher opponent (i.e. good luck with our run defense ending our bowl losing streak vs Jacquizz in the Sun Bowl).
4. Many who complained about Swarbrick making his decision to retain Weis too quickly would have complained just as much if we lost some recruits after letting him flap in the wind too long. That is whining.
At the very least, I expect intelligent people to realize that there are pros & cons to every decision, so if they don’t agree that we should go to the Hawaii Bowl that’s fine but arguing that this proves the administration is derelict and committing malfeasance, or that anybody who isn’t outraged is a pollyanna just makes one sound like an unintelligent name caller.
What annoys me about this board and others is the realization that ND is not just football. I am not fortunate enough to have gone to ND as a student, but I was fortunate enough to attend my first game in South Bend, which happened to be the Syracuse game. I was amazed by the atmosphere and the campus. I was enthralled with the University and all things Irish. While the outcome was very disappointing, it did not make the experience any less special to me. While I wish, hope, and pray for the Irish of my youth, what I feel makes ND such a special place is that they are and academic institution of the highest standard, and they have a great football tradition. When I speak to people of my love of ND, one of the things that I always point to is the fact that ND plays STUDENTS that have a higher expectation on them than any other student that I know of. And they also play football. While I would love for them to contend for a NC every year, I would beg people to realize that these are students first. The job of ND is to produce great citizens, movers, and shakers. I feel that they have done a wonderful job at this. While there are some problems with the football team right now, I feel that we are on the right track. I did not feel that there was any coach out there that would want this job right now and I feel that after the last few coaches, the program needs stability. Get the recruiting stabilized and if CW fails next year, then at least the next coach has something to work with. I do not mind the postings of the issues with the team, but it is frustrating when I repeatedly see how horrible the team is, the coach is(when not long ago everyone was high on CW when he was winning), and the administration. Point it out once or twice, fine. Beat it like a dead horse and it gets old. Even in the darkest of times, Churchill and FDR never beat the drum of negativity. They admitted the challenges and struggled through them. They were not always right, but they ended up as two of the most respected leaders in the 20th century. The one thing they always did was have faith and believe that the future is brighter. All I ask is while bringing up the challenges of the football program, also believe that the future is bright and we can return to where we can be.
I've skimmed all the comments and I am left to wonder, what is it going to take to make the OL better? Having not played the game (hockey player) I'd like to hear about the exact causes of the line's deficiencies and what it's going to take to fix the problems. Any comments?
Look, I was watching AUSTRALIA the other day, and there's an amazing and quite pertinent line in it...JUST BECAUSE THINGS ARE..DOESNT MEAN THEY SHOULD BE.
And I think that it rings true at ND.
Just because we are mediocre and under perform every year, doesnt mean we should be.
We havent had the fire since LOU..and while I hope and pray that CW finds the way to get some fire in this team..I dont see it.
How long does it take?
He seems to be enjoying his bonding time with JR, and snatching up LONG SNAPPERS...when we need to start kicking ass.
I dont want to be negative and I dont want to bag on our team..I love the irish and I always will.
I thank coffey and rock for telling it like it is..and raising the bar.
Lets give CW another year and stand behind him...
go irishhhhhhhhhhhh
IRISH LADD
love the site visit daily but bitchin about charlie and gonna get him replaced support our team and coaches GO IRISH BEAT WARRIORS!!!!!
Stop your damn BITCHING, at least my wife can talk to MR. Johnson when I've heard enough!! Charlie is no fool, he can get new assistant coaches, while the new talent keeps pouring in.
Good idea on the sabbatical. While you're away, figure out the following:
1) Am I a journalist?
2) Am I an ombudsmen for all media that cover ND?
3) Am I a community builder who's primary duty is to bring like-minded people together for productive, two-way dialogue
You can't be all three, which you have tried to be. It's finally coming back to bite you in the ass.
Having said all that, congrats on building such a robust site. With proper care and feeding and a few schematic tweaks, it will continue to be a power.
El Kabong:
I am a longtime reader (from Thomas Schlidt days) and very rare poster. First, the time that you, Vannie, and others take out of your days to post links and keep the peace on the board are appreciated by myself and many countless others.
Things have gone very negative since the Pitt loss. Yes, times are tough for ND fans, players, the program, and the students. But nobody should ever question whether the players "deserve" to go to Hawaii. Nobody who reads or posts on Rock's House, except for ex-ND players, understand the players' hard work and sacrifice during practice, games, and offseason conditioning. When you, ACross and others overly disparage the players' choice of a time and place for a Bowl game, I believe you are doing the players a disservice. They chose this game, and while it is not a BCS or New Year's Day Bowl, it is still something the players and recruits can look forward to.
I use the bowl game simply as an example of the negativity. If anyone on the Board, including longtime, informed posters such as Hobbs or Ty Webb, disagree with ACross' negative remarks on bowl games or other matters, his sophmoric name-calling and your permissive attitude toward his behavior takes Rock's House in a downward spiral. As another example: his calling out of people for actually wanting to watch the Bowl Game. Yes, Christmas Eve is inconvenient, but as an ND fan, if I am able to watch the game, I should be able to watch it with pride without having to catch flack from fellow ND fans. Shouldn't a real fan want to watch the game?
I'm sure you have your reason's for your tolerance of ACross - Board bouncer, catalyst, etc. But as someone who knows that recruits read ND Nation, I would suggest you either tell ACross to tone it down or bounce him forever. Because the "demand perfection (ACross would have taken up a torch and marched to Lou Holtz's home for losing a game or two)
/sanctimonious" attitude of ACross permeates other posters and the rest of the Board, thereby ruining what would otherwise be a good forum for ND debate.
You wanted to know what to do about the negativity: give ACross an ultimatum to tone it down or ban ACross forever.
I've been reading the boards since 2001, and posting since at least 2003, perhaps longer. While increased membership is both a blessing and a curse, the biggest change that I have noticed from the site is it's self-awareness. I don't think the change has been a positive one, but by the same token, I don't have all the facts.
My impression is that the site and the boards used to have as their primary mission being a forum to host intelligent discussion amongst and between posters. There did not seem to be a sense of being watched or observed, or that the site itself should try to achieve credibility with outside readers. Over the past few years, that has changed dramatically. I can't say exactly when I first noticed it, but the rationale behind splitting the football boards was a watershed moment in this mentality -- the mentality that NDN's primary goal was no longer one of providing a forum for debate among members, but rather was one of promoting an agenda to VIP lurkers. While I usually tend to agree with the agenda promoted, I feel as though the sense of community and interaction has been thrown out in favor of tacts to gain the respect and attention of decision-makers at ND, to wit, the various blogs (which at one point merely summarized or linked the best posts of the day, but now are outlets for the ops own opinions), the splitting of the board, and the constant rehashing of issues on the boards, despite the boards' users largely having already either reached a consensus, or at least having taken the issue as far as it can go.
I don't mind the negativity per se, though the willingness of some to bitch about absolutely everything is a bit tiring. What I would rather see is exactly what you have done with this post -- focusing on the members of the NDN community, rather than attempting to put a pretty face on it to make NDN acceptable or respectable to certain people within ND. If certain among us wish to organize to advocate for change, that is certainly admirable, but I have been disappointed with the channeling of a message and almost propaganda that has gone on the last several years.
I would like to point out that I do fully enjoy reading posts from the ops and those in the know about their positions and opinions of what is going on, both with the football program and the administration as a whole. It is clear that there is a problem within the institution. I just hope that NDN doesn't throw the baby out with the bath water in attempting to remedy that problem.
to the last blogger about banning across forever...
pardon me..but what will stop him or her from changing their name and writing the same verbage under a different alias?
Besides, what are we? McCarthy?
My father was an alumni and veteran and I'm sorry, but we live in a world where free speech should be admired, not admonished.
bottem line...we are not good enough...and it's been going on for 15 years...
either we're a stanford...where in we'll always be just average in sports and top notch in academics..
or we are gonna be what we used to be...both stellar in sports and academia.
I'm sorry, but I"m not gonna settle for mediocrity.
IRISH LADD
I appreciate your and other's efforts
to call upon the administration to
wake up and understand the need to
set goals higher that marginal mediocrity both for football success on the field and in the person who represents our great university in
public, ie the head coach. I, as a
1975 alum, am appalled at the image
CW creates for the University in public - bluster, foul mouth, arrogance & hypocrisy does not serve our university well. It's
time for change at the HC position and apparently this website is the only voice stridently demanding that such change be made. So, please continue with your effort. You certainly have my support and I
believe that of most alumni.
I find most of the negative comments that attach Weis and the Administration lacking any depth of thought. We have been suffering as fans for the better part of 15 years. This includes the last years of Holtz, but he is treated like a God on this board. Weis has been he 4 years and Swarbrick 4 months, while Weis clearly must take responsibility for his part in the 15 year debacle he is only responsible for 4. Swarbrick has been here 4 months how accountable should he be at this point? In my opinion everyone who claims to have inside information is full of crap. They don't have it at all. If they do then I will lose all respect for ND since they have more information leaks than then any company I have ever known, Unfortunately Board-ops often alludes to this type of information. Unless someone has a direct line to the decision makers and they have direct conversations with them THEY DO NOT HAVE INSIDE INFORMATION. It is second hand information and it is rarely accurate. These types of posts should be deleted and the poster warned then banned.
What affect have all the negative and mean spirited comments had on the players? They read about themselves, their teammates and their coaches, do you think this helps?
Finally the constant drone of negative comments by what is really a few poster enables the ND haters to believe that all ND fans are whining, sniveling babies that think we are entitled to national championships. As far as i can tell the worst offenders are ND Alums...so tell me all about the high standards of INTEGRITY being taught at ND.
Well a couple of things.
First, I've seen this debate before for other sports and other teams - You're not a "real fan" unless you are RAH RAH RAH!! POSITIVE!! all the time. I say bull. If things aren't going int he right direction, the "real fan" has not only the right but the responsibility to say so! The moronic, delusional "homer" will accept any crappy product shoveled to him. Sort of like Cubs fans. I'd rather be a real fan.
Second, ND Nation has done it to itself with the pomposity of some of the main posters, especially ACross.
Because I dared to disagree with him and a couple of others, I was "exiled" to Cartier Field, even though I've been coming here for almost 5 years now. Even though I'm an alum and a fan FAR longer than most here (40 years this season).
But c'est la vie. This place can't stand alternative points of view - which is what I thought the purpose of the board is.
just my 2 cents.
When Father Hesburgh was made president of the University, I believe he was 35 years old. He was being intervied by Time or Life or some magazine and his picture was to be placed on the cover. When getting ready to take the picture, they naturally asked if he would hold a football. He refused, and stated (with all the wisdom of a 35 year old) that he would not, because the University is far more than just football. Stop and think of the courage and vision it took to do this.)
I think the writers, readers, and bloggers sometimes lose site of that perspective as they drag everyone through the mud, including the administration who has done or enspired others to do some wonderful things in this world. Don't any of you watch the commercial during the games about being the "Fighting Irish"?
I am a die hard fan and I am pissed when then lose. I want greatness again, but honestly I wonder if ND (with some of self-induced limitations) can become and remain a powerhouse like the past and ever satisfy the writers and bloggers of this site. If not, this site and its occupants are destined to remain frustrated.
If we believe being a consistent powerhouse is not realistic, then we need to alter our expectations. Mine are as follows:
1. To have University to uphold the values on and off the field that has allowed it to be what it is.
2. For the fans to be respectful of competitors, players, staff, and administration.
3. For the team and players to represent the University well.
4. For the team to be competitive.
If by being fans of football we sell our souls, what have we gained? National Champions come and go, but what this University represents few if any schools will ever attain.
So what does that mean for this site and its occupants? Dialogue and critique. But you that run the site need to set that (very gray) line as to when doing so begins to represent the fans and the University poorly. I am not sure where that line is, but I am sure that we have crossed it.
The whole site needs to calm down. I am an Alum who used to visit regularly, multiple times a day. Now i mostly find it unbearable. None of us are happy, but what good does it do to just spiral down in a cesspool of negative thoughts and complaints. The negativity grows by a snowball effect and does no good for anybody, the fans or the team.
So please, just stop. The bottom line is that Charlie is here another year. Support him and hope he makes better decisions, hope he brings in better assistants. Negativity from fans will do nothing but hurt this team.
There are three kinds of posters on this site:
1) Fools who think that their input is being monitored by decision makers within the University.
2) Dolts who are here to add nothing constructive but rather to draw the ire of ND loyalists.
3) ND loyalists who are interested in intelligent discussion about the University, its football team and many other things ND.
Over the last several years, the former two groups have grown in number and become more active. My belief is that the ND loyalists seeking information/debate about the University they treasure have been turned off by this increase in otherwise anomalous banter and have, unfortunately, become less active or tuned-out.
I'm not suggesting that I have the solution as to how to make the site more enjoyable or valuable in terms of information - it is, of course, the world wide web, or, wild wild west (take your pick) - but those of us who are truly passionate about ND can choose to ignore the knuckleheads. Engaging in lengthy discussions as to who is right or wrong, calling Charlie fat and insulting your fellow posters is behavior more suited for AOL chat rooms and Yahoo comment boards. Just as most of us agree that we'd like to see the football team be successful but maintain a higher standard of student/athlete, we too should aspire to a higher standard.
irishkevo@yahoo.com
Not to burst your bubble, Kevo, but decision-makers do read NDN, and they read it carefully.
I've had parts of posts, both my own and those of others, quoted to me in conversations with people in the Athletic Department. Other posters here with connects to the University have been reprimanded for some of their posts, with one person having to stop posting entirely.
Please keep up the good work. The truth hurts some time. If we all put our head in the sand like The Notre Dame administration has done since forcing out Lou, we will never get this program turned around.
Mike Coffey:
I have read NDNation for some years, and for the most part, I have found it to be informative and well written. However, it does seem to me that there may be more negativity than what I remember in the past.
As someone else pointed out, with reference to the people who comment, they offer many negative comments and ideas, but seldom are there positive suggestions for improvement. That is expected due to their lack of knowledge about Notre Dame, football, etc.
Mike, if people in leadership roles read NDNation, and that doesn't surprise me, use the opportunity to be creative with ideas for improvement.
You, and the other members of Board Ops are in a much better position to do that than the majority of us who post our thoughts.
GO IRISH...BEAT HAWAII.
...as far as the "negativity" of the NDNation...does 3-9 and 6-6 ring a bell?...it isn't even a "chicken/egg" question...any negativity emanated from the W-L record...and how we lost...I always have looked at Weis' tenure from a "half-full" perspective...so I am seldom surprised at the weak wins and weaker losses...
No bubble burst here, Mike, but I'd suggest you and I see differently as to the decision makers.
In my mind the decision makers start and end with Fr. Jenkins, Dr. Burish and Dr. Affleck-Graves. I'd relent that there is significant power within the Fellows/Trustees group (especially guys like Fr. Beauchamp, Fr. Scully and even Phil Purcell) but these three guys are the folks who are going to determine whether or not the head football coach stays or goes.
I'm certain that many, many employees and other stakeholders in the University monitor the site, and I'm sure many of them are within the Athletic Department, even within the football program; however, I count none of these folks except Jack Swarbrick among the folks that have a seat at the table when head coach discussions are in session. If I remember correctly, it was well documented who were part of the meeting that decided to fire Coach Willingham. I can't imagine that this site was any factor whatsoever in that decision either, other than maybe anecdotally, though many folks here felt they had some impact.
Having been in his classroom, and having had a fairly good personal relationship with him during my time under the dome, I can assure you that Dr. Affleck-Graves is not among those who allow others to influence his decisions. I don't know Fr. Jenkins, nor Dr. Burish, but I'd be shocked if either one of them looked to this site for counsel.
You guys do a wonderful job on this site, Mike - few would dispute that (other than the anti-ND dolts referenced in my post above) and I certainly am not a detractor. This is the first place I look to for inside info and to get a feel for the temperature of ND Nation; however, I disagree with your assertion that this is a source of influence for the University administration and believe that your argument only goes to support my first assertion above.
irishkevo@yahoo.com
Do what I intend on doing Mike. Accept the fact that Weis is back next year, that we will almost certainly suffer through another dreary season of sloppy uninspired football, after which the search will be on for the next ND football coach. Then we have to pray that finally, we get the right man for the job.
Response to Neil:
I was 12 when Anthony Davis scored all those TDs and I cried. My son was 8 two years ago when Reggie Bush pushed the QB into the endzone and he cried. I say this to tell you of my life-long investment in ND football.
My assessment of the team is not bashing, but reality. I hope these young men are getting a great education and I expect them to be successful after they leave South Bend.
Can you look me in the eye and say you would take any ND player over any USC player? This is the reality of our team: I blame the players for not competing hard enough and I blame CW for not challenging them enough in practice and not being a successful leader. He coaches like it is season on Play Station.
Go back to CW's interviews when he was hired (Decided Schematic Advantage) and compare that to his interview after the Syracuse game.
I root for the Irish as hard as ever but my expectations are shockingly low: I told my friends last summer that we would be 500 (I take no joy in being accurate). Next year, we will be lucky to win 7 games (Wash and Navy will be the only two 'highly likely' wins).
I share the anguish that many feel on this post.
I still blame Lou for not having Tom Clements as his offensive coordinator (can you image Skip Holtz having a better offensive feel than someone who won a NC?). This is why he left! Imagine if we were in the 14th Clements season!
Nobody would be happier if I were wrong than I would! Go Irish.
Let's talk some football...A couple of folks have mentioned the O line and their struggles. I wonder, too, but I lack the knowledge of the inner workings and adjustments made by these guys (I played RB and SS). I question the Jon Latina hypothesis--from what I have read and seen from video, he is a very well respected coach by his peers, has a intense but supportive rapport with the players a la Joe Moore, and is very dedicated.
Could it be the scheme that CW is running? Some "zone blocking" that seems beyond even our intelligent players? With the exception of some footwork/speed issues particularly on the edge, or just getting physically beat from time to time, it seems to me our guys are not sissies--they have often engaged players until the whistle, driving them backward and into the ground. However, as we have all seen too often, opposing DL/LBs have come free as if no one knew whom to block(for the love of God, someone take out #95 on Syracuse!). Is this a scheme issue? Did Holtz's/Moore's schemes involve more "kick the guy's ass in front of you" type simplicity? I'm at a loss here.
Similarly, is it me, or does it appear likewise that the RBs don't really know/see the holes? I can't count the times that I've replayed blown-up runs, and seen a very manageable hole created by the OL, but the RB doesn't...even though he starts from 8 yards deep behind the line. When Aldridge produced some good runs in the late 3rd/early 4th against SC, he not only hit the line of scrimmage North-South at full speed, but it seemed the OL blocking was more basic, and, thus, created holes that were more predetermined.
In a nutshell, is there someone out there in the NDNation that can clarify some of this for me? Latina/OL/RBs vs. scheme?
Thanks, and Go Irish!
Mike,
I tried to read all the comments, Mike, but I still have a job. But I had to take the time to reply.
ND fans, world-wide, listen to me: how we found ourselves in this "situation" with the football team does not require rocket-science inteligence nor an a congressional investigation. But in medical terms, "life support" is an appropriate phrase and action is required.
Right now, some readers will utter: "don't be so negative!!!" But unless you want change, you must be objective. And it can be painful. Facts & history must be discussed, "faith & love of our Lady" must come 2nd IF you truly love Our Lady and want to heal the sorrow.
We have a problem here,it's not new and it does not involve our student athletes. It has everything to do with:
1)Objectives 2: Strategy
3) leadership. See - it's not complicated but there will be pain before the healing.
What I find to be offensive is the response by ND fans that FIND it offensive to face the facts & read your Notre Dame history. There are reasons why we have found ourselves in this calamity.
Hope & faith that the coach AND the administration can immediately evolve into the past personality of expecting excellance on the field (we already do in the classroom) - is a prayer.
It matters to me not who the culprits are. Besides, if I get specific, there will be hell on the blogosphere because of my "errors".
But we are sick and I want to be well. My 18 year old son asked me last week: "Dad, have we EVER beaten USC?" A profound sadness overcame me. He doesn't even know what I'm talking about & why I love Notre Dame.
Some day he will. I wish it would come sooner than later.
ND fans - we're in this together and want the same thing. It's how we get there that we may disagree.
As LONG as we get there - and soon. I have 2 sons that need to share my expirience.
...I might be way off base here...but I really feel that with a better offensive line/better running backs (the two are connected...in which way, I don't know...) we would have been a Top 20 team in 2008...
Your and others' negativity is over the top when considering all the factors involved. Recruiting is strong, his effort is strong, the gpa for 6 straight semesters has been over 3.0 (a new record), he is willing to change to get better, and he LOVES Notre Dame. The circumstances are nothing like the prior 2 guys, fine people though they were. If next year we get a similar result then lets go get somebody, but let reflect on the adage "never write a letter (or column)in anger". You asked for my opinion; there you have it.
P. Hass
NDNation is what it is. Growth in participatory readership is certain to cause friction like it does in any organizaation. Mike, NDNation went from a 'local' candidate to a 'national' one. More participation means less focus, more free for all, and diluted product. We'll just have to deal with it.
I don't have time to moan and groan about ND football. I'm an alum and lifelong fan. What you could do is find out what is going on.
1. I'd like to know if something substantive happens regarding a O-line coach replacement. I'd like to know what specifically Weis and the coaches intned to fix about how they prepare the line. And I want to know what they will do, not just what they expect the outcome to be.
2. What specifically is going to be done to improve the strength, conditioning and agility training in the offseason.
3. Is there s specific recognitiion of the lack of leadership both among players AND coaches, and WHAT IS GOING TO BE DONE SPECIFICALLY to fix that?
4. Will there be an understanding that the offenseive line should be expected to maintain their grades, while still learning to block at an elite level? Will the bar for the team be set to be able to do both? What consequences will the coaches set forth to enforce and execute high standards.
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