Do schools cheat in recruiting?
by Bruno95 (2013-02-01 08:44:41)
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Ole Miss went 7-6 last year, and their head coach was Michael Oher's high school coach. They've never been very good at football.

They'll finish with at least two five-star recruits, the #1 overall recruit, a handful of four-star recruits, and probably a top-eight class. Maybe Hugh Freeze is eminently likable, and this is the first class to realize that Ole Miss girls are reason enough to go there. Or maybe something fishy is going on.

I have no idea. Then again, I'm not part of the enormous recruiting-reporting industry. These people have made careers out of tracking recruits and selling scoops. Yet no one has ever been able to publicly report illicit or questionable recruiting tactics?

Outside of an anecdote about Urban Meyer and Jevan Snead, have you ever read anything more than a message board rumor about cheating or underhanded moves? These coaches and programs are public figures -- they could sue for defamation, but the burden of proving malice is high, and if they're really cheating, they'll never sue.

Maybe recruiting is just that clean.


Looks like Hugh Freeze reads this board.
by evilleirish  (2013-02-01 18:28:31)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

He posted a comment on twitter regarding violations.


If Harvard can cheat, so can the SEC.
by slats  (2013-02-01 16:58:11)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

From the Associated Press

CAMBRIDGE, MASS. — Dozens of Harvard University students have been academically disciplined in an investigation into cheating on an open-book, take-home final exam.

As many as 125 students were implicated in the exam-cheating scandal when the university addressed the issue last year.

The inquiry started after a teaching assistant detected problems, including that students may have shared answers.

School officials say the spring course involved included undergraduate students at all class levels.

In an email sent across the campus Friday, a Harvard dean spoke about how the school's academic integrity board resolved cases related to the cheating probe.

He said "somewhat more than half" the cases involved students who were forced to withdraw from the college for a period of time. Of remaining cases, half the students got disciplinary probation. The rest weren't disciplined.

Some athletes became ensnared, including two basketball players who were scratched from the roster.


Sally Struthers asks all recruits "would you like to make
by IrishJoeinnc  (2013-02-01 16:33:09)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

more money."


Jimmy Fallon asks all recruits...
by BeastOfBourbon  (2013-02-01 18:57:49)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

"Who doesn't like more cash?"


I worked with someone whose son was recruited to play
by dvpgm  (2013-02-01 15:30:09)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

D1 football. He ended up choosing Nebraska because he had family in the area but he told me that he had received several calls from boosters offering $25k in cash if his son chose their school. He said that 2 or those 3 offers came from SEC schools. Could he have been lying to me? Sure, but we were pretty close and he didnt really have a reason to lie (his sone was already out of school) so I completely believe him.


The simple answer to your question is "yes."
by BAC69  (2013-02-01 15:26:55)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

The recruiting services aren't looking for violation sensationalism; they are looking for commitment success or surprise choice sensationalism. It isn't their job to report or discuss recruiting techniques and methods but only to find out who wants which recruit and which recruit wants to go where. Finding out this latter information would evaporate if they probed too much into finding out or reporting the methods.

The big disappointment in all this is that the NCAA seems to be equally disinterested in finding and reporting recruiting violations and it is their job and mission to do so. They more than ignored flagrant recruiting violations such as what happened with Cam Newton a few years back. They, in fact, sanctioned the payoff after the facts were shoved in their face--the payoff to the dad was okay because Cam didn't know about it.

Best I can tell, ND is relatively clean, but don't put anything past anyone else. Cheating (or at least stretching the rules very thin) is, I think, more the norm than the exception. There is a lot of money riding on this system, i.e. college football, so why would you expect otherwise.


Programs will cheat to precisely the degree that their alums
by GeronimoRumplestiltskin  (2013-02-01 16:01:58)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

and fans will tolerate it.

Paying of players would not be tolerated whatsoever by ND alums nor most of its non-alum fans. Paying of players in the SEC is not only tolerated, it is as part of their football culture as tailgating.

That's my theory, anyway.


Precisely and succinctly stated but more than a theory ...
by 59er_jim  (2013-02-01 19:24:42)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Fact.


Hugh Freeze is really...
by Kayo  (2013-02-01 15:26:34)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Simon the Likable.


I loved that episode. *
by tbonesays  (2013-02-01 22:06:32)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


Reminds me of Arrelious Benn to Illinois in '07. *
by EastofMidnight  (2013-02-01 13:44:20)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


Who was the DE who chose Illinois over ND around that
by IrishCavan  (2013-02-01 13:52:02)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

time and said (unsolicited) that it was not about the money?


Martez Wilson *
by Mark_It_Zero  (2013-02-01 13:54:06)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


In Ole Miss's case
by Carroll02  (2013-02-01 11:48:17)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

They went 2-10 in 2011, and their average score in FBS games was 14-33.

This year was Freeze's first year, and although they were only 7-6 (average score 30-27), their losses were to Georgia, Alabama, LSU, Texas, Texas A&M and Vanderbilt - teams that went 53-11 against the rest of the country. The losses to A&M, LSU, and Vanderbilt all came on a last minute touchdown.

So there are a lot of reasons for Ole Miss to be seeing a surge in recruiting.

(also, yes, they are cheating their asses off)


My current PT played for Mississippi St. 2002-4.
by GeronimoRumplestiltskin  (2013-02-01 10:50:16)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

He was recruited by pretty much everyone in the SEC, as well as a few other southern schools (he was from New Orleans). He has told me many stories. The answer to your question is yes, and in the SEC, hell yes.


Can you share any of the stories with us? *
by NDirish2008  (2013-02-01 11:55:38)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


Lots of stories featuring $100 bills.
by GeronimoRumplestiltskin  (2013-02-01 12:54:26)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

I have heard 'Bama folks joke about their players being paid through anonymous, plain white envelopes left in their lockers or dropped off at their residence. At MSU, this fellow says that they were handed $100 bills in person by low-level members of the football staff.

Also, no southern recruiting trip was complete without the procurement of a fetching co-ed to be the recruit's "hostess", though in the end the recruit was likely to only get to second base before she'd whisper in his ear "We have to stop now, but if you come here in the fall we can go all the way." He only knew of one player that ever saw their "hostess" again.


In the SEC? Yes ...
by gadomer  (2013-02-01 10:19:40)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

next question.

BTW, did you really think all those kids go to Alabama because Nick Saban gets all jiggy with his recruits? Rumors abound of how he looks the other way.
The SEC is becoming very much like the old SWC.


I'm assuming they're cheating
by El Capitan  (2013-02-01 10:16:45)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

However, it is interesting to note that Ole Miss has a fairly diverse campus, with almost a quarter of the population represented by minorities.


Is this a redundant question? *
by thersh  (2013-02-01 09:49:48)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


Its not in the best interest of the reporters to bring it up *
by DakotaDomer  (2013-02-01 09:39:22)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


That's really what I'm getting at.
by Bruno95  (2013-02-01 09:48:41)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

How can people like Mike Farrell or whoever works at Scout or ESPN call themselves journalists, when they won't even discuss stuff like this? Does anyone think recruiting is entirely clean? All these "reporters" do is speculate about, pester, and review the tape of high school kids.

I doubt everyone cheats. I don't think ND does, or Michigan, or Stanford. I don't know who does. I don't know if Ole Miss is. However, I seriously doubt no one does, and that -- not the hip swivel of a 17 year-old -- is the only real story in college recruiting.


Bill Simmons's column today is an interesting perspective.
by Mr Wednesday  (2013-02-01 16:41:34)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

He writes about his approach to PEDs in professional sports, but I think it's equally applicable to coverage of dirty college football programs.


If your income comes from kissing up to coaches
by okerland  (2013-02-01 11:06:38)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

why would you blow up that system? If Farrell blows the whistle on the SEC, no one gives him inside information.

As my SEC friends told me, "if we are cheating, why would we turn someone else in?"


If they did mention it, their sources would cut them off.
by GeronimoRumplestiltskin  (2013-02-01 11:03:57)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

They would not be able to remain in the recruiting coverage business.


Do they call themselves journalists?
by NDMike2001  (2013-02-01 10:02:48)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

ESPN is Entertainment Sports Network and Programming

I thought they were just part of our entertainment.


My rule of thumb.
by IrishCavan  (2013-02-01 09:27:32)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Any time you see a mediocre program recruit like gangbusters, they are probably cheating. See Baylor basketball.


Right anwer - Auburn with Cam Newton; Oregon Football
by 1978Irish  (2013-02-01 13:08:06)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Colorado football under McCartney; Miami FL football in the 1980's.

A corollary is that if you are way better than everyone else, you are probably cheating.

USC Football for 40 years has been dirty. They don't have to be, but they are.

UCLA basketball under Wooden was very dirty.

Kentucky basketball - very dirty. They recruit 4 top 20 players every year.

Alabama football under Sabin, I am betting is dirty, recruiting and PEDs






Trouble is, losers cheat too.
by tbonesays  (2013-02-01 22:15:25)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Just no one pays attention. How many stories did you read about money paid to Kansas football players in the 60s?


For what it's worth...
by MNND  (2013-02-01 08:59:33)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

I know a guy from NY that played at Ole Miss in the mid-1980's. He claims when they would take the pre-game walk to the stadium (I'm envisioning something like the walk ND players take) fans would hand them $$. The better the player, the more $$. Since he wasn't a starter, he didn't make much $$.


Heh--I know a guy who played there in the late 90's early
by smcdermo  (2013-02-01 10:07:55)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

2000's (2 years with Tuberville/3 years with Cutcliffe) who tells the exact same story. $100 handshakes in The Grove.


that's it...handsome handshakes! *
by MNND  (2013-02-01 11:05:15)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


Just last week...
by wiNDycityfan  (2013-02-01 08:57:53)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

A recruiting blog released a photo showing Treadwell, a top WR recruit, holding several $100 bills, as well as another with two babes each kissing his cheeks while holding his arms.

Ole Miss' newfound success on recruiting gives nothing but the sense that employing unscrupulous tactics is part of the process.


only the ones that are tryin' *
by Ksqdomer  (2013-02-01 08:53:36)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


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