How does continuing to vote for Republicans in the current environment lead to the return of a rational Republican Party?

As to your issues with Dems, the Dems just agreed to a Bi-partisan deal on the border that multiple Republican Senators said would be better than any deal they could get under a Republican President. To reach that agreement Dems sacrificed their biggest immigration priority a solution for the dreamers a policy that is overwhelmingly supprted by majorities of both parties. It would be law if Republicans had not walked away from what they demanded. Given that fact how can you say you will vote for Republicans and fix that issue.

Ditto for Republicans and spending. As I have written here before the Republicans have figured out dont tax and spend is more popular than tax and spend. The last Republican who showed real concern about the the deficit was Reagan and he agreed to raise texes in order to deal with it. I am happy to look at spending cuts in retrurn for higher taxes (as are many Dems) but Republicans wont go for that.

If you are going to exclusively support a third party have at it but dont tell me you can vote for current Republicans and meet the standards you are setting for Dems.

The Dems agreed to that deal to remove the border as an election issue for Joe Biden. None of the provisions really had teeth. While I agree it should have been passed, let's not pretend Democrats nobly fell on their swords on this.

I may be pretty sure what the Republicans will do spending-wise, but there's a small percentage indicating I may be surprised. OTOH, I 100 percent know what the Democrats will do, and am equally 100 percent sure I won't like it.

I never said I would vote for current Republicans. I'm asking why I should vote for current Democrats rather than stay home?

You just don't accept it using the black and white logic of it, in which you are correct. True, voting for a Democrat means you're voting for something you don't support.

But it belies nuance and pragmatism, in which one realizes that in the words of Rush, "If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice." Taking a defensive position and accepting the less desirable outcome is part of life, not just in elections.

My guess is you know you're covered by guaranteed to go blue Illinois. If you lived in Wisconsin, it might be a different conversation.

It's also interesting to see the argument that you won't vote for anyone who will spend in a way you don't like, apparently no matter what will happen as to other issues.

Random Person X litters on my street. Random Person Y litters, too, but he also says - repeatedly - he might someday stop littering. Y has also repeatedly expressed a desire to murder me, has bought weapons for the purpose, and has threatened me directly.

In a hypothetical election between X and Y, I can't imagine saying "well, both litter and I don't like that, so I guess I'm staying home." It isn't too hard to tell which one is the bigger threat, even if I don't like that X litters on my street, and even if Y sometimes says he'll stop littering (but, somehow, never does).

something different on spending? Deficit doubled under Reagan, increased by 36% under HW Bush, 57% undr W Bush and 33% under Trump.

Paul Ryan changed the CBO scoring rules to allow for the magic asterik that projected economic growth that would offset his tax cuts so he did not have to pay for them. Republicans have passed tax cuts with 10 year sunsets because they dont need to be paid for and they know the sunset will be easily extended as opposed to rasing taxes.

All evidence of the last 40 years is the Republican party cares a lot about tax rates but not so much about the deficit.

Still better than zero.

Maintain what was once bipartisan foreign policy, and stop a further erosion of norms.

Having Trump in power the first time, opposed from within by adults, did a number on us. Imagine time 2 with Stephen Miller and Cash Patel at the helm.

Or remember how Trump dealt with the one crisis he got dealt in COVID. What any competent POTUS would have used to bring us together Trump used to aid whack jobs and wage more culture war.

Plenty of people have been forced to vote defensively. Gay people had to hold their nose and vote dem before Obama. Pro DACA folks are forced to vote for the party that will sacrifice them to negotiate on foreign policy but won't put long time US residents in camps.

You'd need a Democratic president and house with a narrow Democratic or Republican (Unclear how many mcconnel types are left in 2024) senate majority.

Or you need a filibuster proof republican majority and a house majority with Trump in charge.

The R house blocked a fix at the border under Obama that had bipartisan senate support. It just blocked the best deal they'll conceivably get.

In terms of tuition forgiveness. You just have to bank on two conservative SCOTUS justices not dying in the next four years. Pretty good bet. Granted if that happened states could legislate gun reform again.

Remember when Trump passed a border bill with control of the entire government? I remember running the 2018 campaign on caravans but that's just me.

Remember when Trump used his majority to cut spending and right size entitlements? Oh never mind. He'll just cut taxes again.

So that's how you get a Democratic president with filibuster-proof majorities, the group of whom definitely have the attention span to get those things done.

I agree the border deal shouldn't have been blocked. But the fact that deal is "the best deal they'll conceivably get" is more than enough reason to not want the above group to get into power.

The SC could block tuition forgiveness because Biden was trying to do it via EO. There's nothing that says it couldn't be legally mandated via Congress (which, granted, is how these things are supposed to be done). See my opening paragraph.

With Republicans being asked to vote against their interests for the purposes of stopping Trump, why should they feel confidence when Democrats not only refuse to put any of their interests on the back burner but (as we now have evidence via Biden's behavior) will promise moderation and then renege?

Dems are losing West Virginia.

Dems have to defend Ohio, Montana, and Arizona. They could take Texas if they had a crazy good night.

If dems have a great election they might take the house by 10 or so votes. More likely it has a slim R margin.

The dems aren't capable of taking margins that would allow them to do that much.


But the whole point of this is that to make the R's a party again they have to lose bad. They don't care if Susan Collins tsk tsks Trump, or that you feel kind of icky about filling in the Trump bubble. They care that MAGA will primary them unless they kowtow to glorious leader. The Republican Party hasn't cared about policy since Obama was in office and they haven't cared about debt since Clinton was in office.