In reply to: We should incentivize more college graduates. posted by kormal
It is to teach people how to think, to relate, to decide, to do things for others.
What are people doing in High School these days? Apparently no one is learning how to think, or how to navigate life.
If kids are this banged up, then I might switch my position and embrace BI’s call for two years of conscription. Because none of this makes any sense to me.
How much networking value do you think a degree from the University of Houston or Indiana State really provides? And to give some perspective, there are over 2800 four year universities in the US, meaning UH is certainly in the top 5-10% of all universities and Indiana State is probably in the top 25%. Maybe 2-3% of universities provide any sort of meaningful network value.
If you live in Seattle, probably not that much.
On a national level, only a handful of schools will qualify here. On a regional level, the network effect is much greater.
We also must distinguish between networking with alumni and networking with friends that you made along the way.
I think that there is value here. Like everything else, it varies between the different universities.
...college is not the only way to teach people those things, and for a lot of people isn't a particularly good way to teach people those things. So why are we pushing them into college?
That Trump's strongest demographic is white dullards who didn't go to college.
...a reaction to the facts that:
A. So much of society shares your low opinion of those who don't go to college
B. We've abandoned any pretense of improving the lot of the working class and have instead suggested that the solution to the problems of the working class is for the working class to make themselves not working class.
Some of what's being spouted in this thread about degrees being no more than an asset to be bought is gibberish, but so is the idea that college is a good fit for everyone. You don't really believe that, do you?
a college degree? Interestingly, those with a 4-year degree value that education at the same level (or even lower) than those without a 4-year degree. In other words, it seems more likely that those without a 4-year degree place more value on it than those who do have one.
Yeah, shitty elitists exist. But I suspect they are equal opportunity shitheads.
ROI is a good metric. And I don’t think the gains are privatized. Everyone benefits from a college-educated populace!
I’m also a fan of the EITC. And I 100% agree with your last paragraph. We’re all just whistling Dixie around the real issues.
Let's say that you took out a loan to build a factory. Construction takes four years, and at the end of four years the factory will generate $X in income. You would certainly consider this an asset, right?
A college degree is no different, it is just human capital as opposed to physical capital.
If society pays off the loans used to obtain this human capital, and you get to keep your degree, how can you view this as anything other than privatizing the gains and socializing the losses?
You seem to place a lot of value on society graduating from college. Again, High School should be enough formal education for most of society. Do you have any data to support this assertion? I'm seeing the opposite, which is highlighted in the WSJ article below:
Roughly half of college graduates end up in jobs where their degrees aren’t needed, and that underemployment has lasting implications for workers’ earnings and career paths.
That is the key finding of a new study tracking the career paths of more than 10 million people who entered the job market over the past decade. It suggests that the number of graduates in jobs that don’t make use of their skills or credentials—52%—is greater than previously thought, and underscores the lasting importance of that first job after graduation.
Of the graduates in non-college-level jobs a year after leaving college, the vast majority remained underemployed a decade later, according to researchers at labor analytics firm Burning Glass Institute and nonprofit Strada Education Foundation, which analyzed the résumés of workers who graduated between 2012 and 2021.
More than any other factor analyzed—including race, gender and choice of university—what a person studies determines their odds of getting on a college-level career track. Internships are also critical.
The findings add fuel to the debate over the value of a college education as its cost has soared—and whether universities are producing the kind of knowledge workers that employers say they need.
“You’re told your entire life, ‘Go to college, get a bachelor’s degree and your life is gonna be gravy after that,’” said Alexander Wolfe, 29 years old, a 2018 graduate from Northern Kentucky University who currently works security at a corporate facility in the Cincinnati area. “In reality, it hasn’t really helped me that much.”
I would assume most would say that they got quite a bit more out of attending Notre Dame than the resultant income differential. Seems like multiple things can all be true here.
1. There is a potential benefit to going to college beyond the economic ROI.
2. That said, there does need to be a certain level of economic ROI given the costs involved, and for many students that economic ROI is not achieved.
3. College is not the only place that the economic and non-economic benefits often associated with higher education can be obtained, and for many students it is not the right place for those benefits to be obtained.
4. Thus, instead of encouraging everyone to go to college, we should do more to promote the availability of both these economic and non-economic benefits in contexts outside of traditional four-year colleges.