The definition of "broader value to society"
by Raoul (2024-02-23 14:42:09)

In reply to: A variety of ways indeed  posted by El Kabong


is very slippery. Many here think plumbing and electrician do not provide a broader value to society and believe philosophy and music do. Well, society tell us its view (and its conclusion is the opposite).

It is not that society thinks ballerinas and composers should not be compensated well, it just thinks very few should (and they make most of the money - and can become fabulously wealthy). Many plumbers and electricians make a reasonable living, but very few people in the arts do. This is just reality.

We do a disservice to good governance when we indulge in the low income prospect vocational interests of a significant number of students in the name of some societal benefit by providing debt for those degrees when THEY CANNOT SUSTAIN ANY DEBT WHATSOEVER. They need 100% grants - perhaps from some major foundation - not low interest loans that will be wiped out in 10 years while we kid ourselves on the repayment prospects and hope 1 or 2 of them hits the lottery by becoming a great singer, actor or prima ballerina.

Yes, it is unfair that rich kids will get a better chance to take a flyer on a career in ballet or music or fine arts. It is also unfair that wealthy people can afford concierge medicine and experimental treatments. The place address this - if you feel it needs addressing - is NOT in the Title IV direct student loan program. Again, those who lack means but wish to study these lower prospect vocational paths need grants not wink and nod debt.

Below is a re-post of something I put back here in the PBR two weeks ago....

Below are the median debt levels of a selection of Master's programs. Note how there is almost an inverse relationship between the median amount of money borrowed and the likely financial prospects for said degree in the market place (not shown, but you can definitely envision it). So the most debt is going to those with the least favorable immediate job prospects. And a big reason is the guys at the bottom are probably working while they get their Master's and/or get tuition help from their place of work who actually values the extra education.

Visual and Performing Arts, General $63,830
Radio, Television, and Digital Communication $55,554
Social Sciences, General $54,554
Philosophy $54,260
Journalism $53,213
Clinical, Counseling, and Applied Psychology $51,888
Sociology $46,871
English Language and Literature, General $44,301
Political Science and Government $43,853
Arts, Entertainment, and Media Management $41,238
Information Sciences, General $40,579
Marketing $35,738
Computer Science $35,301
Education, General $29,434
Accounting $28,212
Mechanical Engineering $26,775
Civil Engineering $26,180

Note: Data from Education Initiative last updated August 2023


Do you have any evidence to support your second sentence?
by FaytlND  (2024-02-23 15:30:58)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Cannot reply

This sentiment seems to come up frequently whenever discussing this topic. That the people who might support subsidizing these types of "low economic value" endeavors must view them as better and/or more worthy. Except I've never seen anyone actually express that sentiment here. Though it does make for a convenient way to frame the discussion to make that one segment of people seem sufficiently out-of-touch. I'm pretty sure that the vast majority of people here--especially those than own a home or business--understand the value of skilled trades.


It is just my sense of the place
by Raoul  (2024-02-23 15:53:30)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Cannot reply

Perhaps we have a few loud posters creating the impression.