No one vote is going to change the system...
by Marine Domer (2024-04-16 15:17:53)

In reply to: But how do you change the system?  posted by El Kabong


which is why I find this "you are morally required to vote to X" threads silly. Changing the system takes work.


Completely agree with this.
by wpkirish  (2024-04-16 15:40:26)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Cannot reply

I have written in the past if No Labels or another third party really wanted to change the system they would not focus on the WH but would start with Congressional or Senate races. If they were really serious they would include local and state races.

The problem with sending a message voting (particulalry with the Electoral College) is the is unlikely to be received. Lots of Republicans could say they are voting third party instead of Trump because they cant stand the idea of voting for Biden. If Trump wins I dont think the message will be received.

If you want to change the system then you need to commit to doing the work it takes to truly develop a third party (really hard and slow) or you need to work within the context of the party you support to change the dynamic of the party.


Respectfully, that was not my point.....
by Marine Domer  (2024-04-16 16:41:33)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Cannot reply

at least not completely. My point is I hear/read from a lot of people about what someone's moral obligation is for casting a vote. Voting is awfully damn easy these days. If someone wants to change things, as starters:

1. Educate yourself about the various choices. Read up on them. Ask questions.
2. Once you've educated yourself, but ONLY once you've educated yourself, go vote.
3. Vote for who you believe should hold the office. Stop wasting time with game theory as to how this vote or that will play out.
4. DO MORE than just vote. Donate to a candidate, or walk for them, or put up a sign, or talk with friends about them. Go to a meeting, or a speech. Ask questions. Don't just be passive.
5. Run for something. There are countless boards and advisory groups out there. Run for one, or at least go to a meeting.
6. If a candidate comes to your door, don't be the asshole that points at the No Soliciting sign and slams the door shut. Those folks can F right off.


#6 people are real peaches. I had many fun ones during my
by Grace91  (2024-04-17 18:05:54)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Cannot reply

unsuccessful run. One wound up being the parent of one of my children's teammates on a school sports team. Not sure if they remembered yelling at me from their gold cart as they barreled down their very long driveway yelling at me. I certainly remembered them. Another yelled at me when I returned to the house, noting that they already had told me that they were not interested. When I politely explained that I needed to check their dog's vaccination records as it had bit me and broken the skin (through pants, and I didn't realize it at the time) they were somewhat more polite. Then there were the garden variety "not interested" yellers.

I have been asked a few times by people to run again. I don't think that I have it in me. It's a tremendous amount of time and nontrivial amount of money (I self-funded, maybe I am stupid) to invest to campaign. Add to that the vitriol and untruths spewed on social media, being physically assaulted (yes, it happened, no, I was not hurt, the fact that it happened at all is the problem), and I have no desire to re-engage. Then I see proposed development in the area and I wonder. But most likely I will keep to myself, put in my time here, and leave the area if it becomes too much. It's depressing.


Sorry misinterpreted but I think we are still in agreement.
by wpkirish  (2024-04-16 16:51:34)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Cannot reply

The idea that you lob a protest vote when you dont like the candidate and ignore the harder work that you reference and is required to build a party is where i fall on the line. If someone wants to move either party party or develop a new party the work you reference is what it takes.

If no labels really is interested in changing the two party system electing more people to the House and Senate woudld change more than a third party bid for the WH that is unlikely to win.


We're seeing more states/localities go to
by AquinasDomer  (2024-04-16 15:36:05)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Cannot reply

Ranked choice. If anything could weaken the current party alignment that'd probably be it.