Could you expand on your comment about a

"general pay gap" between men and women? I have seen far too many studies to take this at face value anymore (even the WaPo has debunked it on numerous occasions - I could pull up the link but my internet connection is terrible where I am right now). The 20-30% "difference" in pay was a stat that was pulled ~4 decades ago, and simply took all the earnings of men across jobs and compared it to all the earnings of women across jobs, and then compared the total difference. One doesn't need to take a statistics course to understand the flaw in that methodology. In the various studies I've read, the current differences (which are much smaller than the 20-30% of decades past) are mostly made up of personal choices. It is apparent that men choose more careers in STEM fields which tend to pay more, men choose jobs that typically require longer hours, men are more willing to relocate for their jobs, and men tend not to have as much time out of the workforce due to child-bearing and child-rearing (fair or unfair it's true). We can talk about society and expectations for men and women and how that impacts career choices, but that's an entirely different discussion. I also read a study conducted in multiple Scandaiavian countries where things are at least perceived to be far more egalitarian than here, and the choices men and women made were even more pronounced than they are here. Women tended to go into more "humanitarian" fields (nursing, social work, etc.) where there is far more human interaction but lower pay, and more men went into the higher paying STEM fields. So while this "gender pay gap" is often repeated by certain politicians looking to gain favor, that doesn't make it true. So I would need some evidence of equally qualified and experienced men and women in the same roles, doing the same work, and with the men making more (and not in sports where it's revenue-based please). We have laws against that type of behavior as well.
I have seen it both ways, and it can be subjective. Additionally, and I'll admit it's anecdotal, but at my large employer and my large employer clients women are specifically sought out for some of these more financial-related roles to get more representation, and often given an inherent advantage in that process.

Regarding your paragraph about LGBT people, I would make a counter argument that men participating in sports that require physical attributes is unfair to women who are not born with the inherent biological advantages that men have.

I feel the need

to rephrase your description to eliminate the hidden assumption.

The way I would summarize the results:only a small part of the male/female income disparity arises because men are paid more than women for the same job description. The bulk of the disparity arises because females are underrepresented (males are overrepresented) in a number of high income jobs (and the reverse for lower than average income jobs).

This is a largely accurate summary of the patterns we see and research into the underlying causes this pattern was the basis for Claudia Goldin's recent Nobel prize.

This may represent "choice" but that's begging the question.

Consider a thought experiment. Someone researches the income disparity between blacks and whites in 1953. They find that discrimination plays no role, it's just that more Blacks choose occupations such as cooks while more Whites choose occupations such airline pilots. Can you see why such an interpretation might be less than persuasive?

Two interesting points from a Payscale article

Payscale for those who don't know is an organization that collects wage information broken down by finely detailed job description and location. Periodically they produce a report about gender pay differences, which is informative and seems unbiased.

Fact 1: It looked at the seven college majors with the highest starting salaries. More men than women majored in six of them, with pharmacy being the one exception. Note, it did not include law or medicine (postgraduate degrees) which have an increasing number of females.

Likewise, women were the majority in 6 of the 7 majors with the lowest starting salaries, with theology being the exception.

Fact 2: The report also looked at the most commonly-held job for men and the most commonly-held job for women in each state and looked at the average salary for each. The only state where the pay for the most commonly-held job for females paid more than the most commonly-held job for males in that state was that great left-wing state of Montana. (mam don't let your sons grow up to be cowboys is that lesson)

I'm unfamiliar with the data source

I'm tempted to put less weight of Fact 2 since, if the jobs categories are very narrowly defined, the most common job might be held by 2% of the population.

Here's the 2023 report

It didn't include the two factoids I mentioned - must have been from an earleir report. As I said the organization collects wage information, which can aid both employers and employees in wage negotiation. They produce a yearly report in March that covers wage disparities and attempts to analyze the causes. I've found it to be informative and impartial.

Click here for link at https://www.payscale.com/research-and-insights/gender-pay-ga

Very tendentious *

Here is a recent Pew Research piece...

...that I believe is fairly nuanced; that is, it goes towards, if not completely to the bottom of, some of the statistical nooks and crannies you adverted to. Gender pay gap in U.S. hasn’t changed much in two decades (Pew Research, March 1, 2023).

I understand the fact that it depends on what occupations are held by men versus women, but to some extent--not completely, of course--this begs a question. Why aren't there as many women who are commercial real estate appraisers or aerospace engineers? Do they just not like the idea of the job? There are many, but not close to matching the female proportion of the general population--far below, in fact. This gets into societal expectations, too, and while that might be a different discussion for the point you're making, it's part of the one I'm making. And I'm not saying this out of any political motivation. Also, the pay gap was only one element of disadvantage I mentioned.

As for LGBTQ folks, maybe what you mention is unfair. Or maybe the whole system of gender-based sports participation could evolve a bit. If you take the complete set of cis-men and cis-women athletes in any given sport, there will be some men who underperform relative to some women and vice-versa. Also, I tend to think that the incidence of these sports-related issues is pretty low and probably less important to society (or even LGBT people) than we might think.

Thanks. I don’t disagree with you about that the impact of

men in women’s sports is likely low, and that we tend to focus on the shiny stories about certain men who weren’t competitive in the men’s division all of a sudden becoming world-beaters in the women’s division. However I still hold that in general it’s an unfair practice, but agree it’s not a ubiquitous phenomenon.

On the gender pay gap, I agree that was just one of your points but it did strike a chord. I appreciate you sharing the link, but unless I’m missing something (which is entirely possible as I’ve been up for 26 hours and read it on my phone), that study suffers from the same issues I laid out in my previous post. I clicked on their link about how they came up with the 18 cent difference, and it seems they just looked at the median earnings between men and women. That again doesn’t take into account personal choices. They did survey individuals about their perception on why there is a difference, but people’s feelings about the reasons don’t change the data or personal decisions which would account for the main differences. I do agree that historically women have been discouraged from pursuing the more high-paying STEM jobs, which may be the point you’re making and would be a large factor in the difference in median income. But a broader discussion (and maybe not one for now) is that men and women are inherently different. Why do women (generally) choose more interpersonal jobs like nursing, education, social work, etc that pay less? Why are women more likely to choose to leave the workforce for longer periods to care for their children? Why are men more willing to relocate for work and take more dangerous (and high-paying) jobs? I don’t pretend to know the answers, but I’ll dig up that Scandinavian study I referenced below where these choices are apparent. Is it society causing this or something more inherent in the differences between men and women? These are questions i can’t answer but i also don’t want to run to the conclusion that it’s all somehow sexism. I also acknowledge that some of these generalizations may piss people off back here, but it’s backed up by data that there are far more men in these particular fields. So apologies in advance haha.

Anyway, I appreciate the volley on this but I’m about to crash so may not respond for a while. Have a good evening.

Get some sleep, man!...

...I know rhe feeling, though I can't pull all-nighters the way I used to. Be well.