Do you know how surrogacy is accomplished?
by czeche (2024-01-14 07:26:17)

In reply to: I think you’re being sarcastic  posted by goirish89

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And how that relates to Catholic teaching on IVF, etc?

Agree or disagree, Pipe Francis's statement does not come out of a vacuum.

Pope Francis's response to your statement on allowing those who cannot conceive to have children might point to the option of adoption. I understand how people might feel in this situation, but I don't think the Catholic Church is treading new ground when it says "even when things are particularly unpleasant there are certain rules you cannot violate," aka "the ends do not justify the means." You may feel that surrogacy has no moral qualms, but for those who do, that is the applicable statement.

I am well aware of both
by goirish89  (2024-01-14 11:51:45)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Cannot reply

I perceive the statement by the Pope to be yet another attempt by the church to control its members without any acknowledgement of the advancement of science and how it affects our lives. It's not the 14th century anymore.

Adoption vs ivf vs artificial insemination have been covered in other posts here and point to the fact that there is not a one size fits all solution to this problem. Basically, the church is saying "if you don't want to adopt, you can't have a family"--which is ridiculous. Any of these options should be available to those who can proceed in an ethical, moral manner. They don't need the church (hardly a bastion of ethical or moral behavior) to validate that.
The Church did not oppose IVF in the 14th Century
by czeche  (2024-01-14 14:06:19)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Cannot reply

My subject may sound a bit flippant, but I think it's worth commenting that these moral issues have been looked at quite recently, and the church is not just aware of scientific advance but can claim quite a bit of credit for scientific advancement throughout the last 1000-2000 years (depending on when you think the "Catholic Church" came into existence).

The history of those in power trying to control is a very long one (in fact, just as long as history is) and I know one can certainly point to many, many examples of the Catholic hierarchy doing just that, but the IVF/surrogacy concern raises specific moral concerns. Artificial insemination is a different (lower) level of concern. Specifically, according to the Catholic argument the injury done by artificial insemination is to the people who are choosing that injury, whereas the injury done by IVF and the like is done to others (obviously this is based on the concept that fertilized eggs are people).

Personally, I am not Catholic but I do believe in an objective truth. That objective truth means there will be conclusions that are not pleasant. That does not invalidate the conclusions. Now, I agree with you that if someone can proceed in an ethical, moral manner they should be allowed to. Interestingly, the Catholics would also agree with you, they would simply say this is not ethical or moral.

Good points
by goirish89  (2024-01-14 21:12:48)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Cannot reply

All of them. It’s possible my anti-church bias allowed me to take my eye off the ball a little here. I appreciate the back and forth and your thoughts. Thank you.