Some Solved, Some Not
Hard to summarize one's thoughts while getting ready for an eight-hour drive, but I'm all about tough situations.
Looking at the Charlie Weis regime after two seasons, I see some problems that have been solved while some remain unanswered.
ND is playing up to its potential at a very high rate, which is good. During the past two regimes, the Irish would more often than not play up or down to the level of its competition, which led to maddening lows and thrilling highs. Weis' even keel and understanding of the game, which dwarfs that of his predecessors, has helped eliminate the potholes that would scuttle the undercarriage of past Irish seasons.
However, ND is not playing up to championship potential yet, which is not good. Eliminating the befuddling losses was step one. Step two is eliminating the quality losses.
ND is playing with a winning attitude, which is good. Belief in the victory starts at the top, and there's no doubt Charlie Weis expects to win every game.
However, ND is not playing with a consistent attitude, which is not good. Charlie gets caught up in the psychology of the game sometimes (e.g. "I've watched every play SC has run this year"), and makes some decisions that seem to go against the grain of what the game situation would make appropriate.
Going into the bowl game, Charlie Weis needs to do the one thing that will differentiate himself from his predecessors forever: learn.
Bob Davie never learned. Grab-bag offenses and inconsistent recruiting were his watchwords. Tyrone Willingham never learned. Underperforming assistants were kept on, almost in defiance of conventional wisdom.
Charlie Weis needs to learn, or perhaps show a willingness to learn. If some assistants are not up to snuff, whether on the field or in recruiting or both, they should be replaced. If his psychological approach to the big games is not working (which it isn't), he needs to alter it.
Recognizing the need for change and implementing those changes are an important part of any successful coach's repertoire. If Charlie shows that bullet in his gun, ND will be fine.
Looking at the Charlie Weis regime after two seasons, I see some problems that have been solved while some remain unanswered.
ND is playing up to its potential at a very high rate, which is good. During the past two regimes, the Irish would more often than not play up or down to the level of its competition, which led to maddening lows and thrilling highs. Weis' even keel and understanding of the game, which dwarfs that of his predecessors, has helped eliminate the potholes that would scuttle the undercarriage of past Irish seasons.
However, ND is not playing up to championship potential yet, which is not good. Eliminating the befuddling losses was step one. Step two is eliminating the quality losses.
ND is playing with a winning attitude, which is good. Belief in the victory starts at the top, and there's no doubt Charlie Weis expects to win every game.
However, ND is not playing with a consistent attitude, which is not good. Charlie gets caught up in the psychology of the game sometimes (e.g. "I've watched every play SC has run this year"), and makes some decisions that seem to go against the grain of what the game situation would make appropriate.
Going into the bowl game, Charlie Weis needs to do the one thing that will differentiate himself from his predecessors forever: learn.
Bob Davie never learned. Grab-bag offenses and inconsistent recruiting were his watchwords. Tyrone Willingham never learned. Underperforming assistants were kept on, almost in defiance of conventional wisdom.
Charlie Weis needs to learn, or perhaps show a willingness to learn. If some assistants are not up to snuff, whether on the field or in recruiting or both, they should be replaced. If his psychological approach to the big games is not working (which it isn't), he needs to alter it.
Recognizing the need for change and implementing those changes are an important part of any successful coach's repertoire. If Charlie shows that bullet in his gun, ND will be fine.
Labels: charlie weis, nd football
posted by Mike Coffey at 7:50 AM
25 Comments:
I think it is very difficult to balance the "coaching" versus "talent" issue. No doubt SC had more talent but to me more talent means beating a man one on one or making a tackler miss or making a sensational catch. It does not mean catching balls wide open in the middle of the field. Certainly USC did some of the former last night, but also some of the latter, which to me is a coaching issue.
To me, on coaching, the question is whether the Minter, et al. issue has reached the Diedrick level where CW is just being stubborn on refusing to change horses or whether the staff deserves more chances.
I think your comments are fair and measured, particularly after a disappointing performance by the Irish. Much will be hashed and re-hashed, but the fact remains that quality coaches find the optimal scheme to fit their players. They do NOT wheel in a pet scheme and force-feed it to players without the ability to carry it out.
In the last three losses to OSU, MIchigan and USC, the Irish inexplicably overloaded against the run and left the slower, under-talented DB's out on an island. Watching the backs of the DB's chasing in desperation, or the safeties "in the box" as yet another unfettered TD post route to the deep middle is completed is absolute madness. Hello....the three-deep zone was invented years ago.
The offensive short-comings in big games appear directly related a below-average offensive line, but that can be fixed with good recruiting, which appears to be happening.
All in all, a head-scratching season: a lot of wins, but none of the classic ones that emerge from a mano-a-mano clash of titans. It felt like 8-4 rather than 10-2, but hopefully, following the retirement of R MInter, the start of a ramp-up to future success.
Mark P.
Class of '79
I think Minter's time has passed, but more importantly, I am concerned about recruiting. last year was a good class, but we have been stuck on 11 this year for some time, and prize recruits are going elsewhere at an alarming rate. Aurellious Benn chose Illinois (of all people) and now rumor in Chicago is that Martez Wilson will go there as well.
USC hosted several 5 star athletes last night all of whom watched USC spank the Irish, and we haven't had much of a visiting schedule for weeks.
Charlie can be forgiven for the defensive lapses, but recruiting rests squarely on his shoulders.
What now, Charles?
I've been a notre dame fan since I was a kid. Every year I start off believing that they have a shot...are my expectations too high? Perhaps.
And I was at the game last night, it was painful. It was like a high school team vs. a pro team.
When your kicker is so terrible that he has to PURPOSELY kick it out of bonds...when you don't returne ONE KICKOFF all year past the 20 yard line..come on. When you give your receivers a 15 yard cushion...and those receivers are smith and jarrett...are you serious?
THE BOTTOM LINE....the Irish need SPEED SPEED SPEED SPEED....
They haven't had a decent corner since BOBBY TAYLOR '92....that's 14 years.....let's get this thing fixed.
Fire the defense cord....focus on speed...recruit atheletes....and now that we got the no. qb in the nation coming...let's kick sc's.......... you know what next year.
I'm tired of losing the quality teams.....
peace
It wasn't going to be easy for Weis to make ND a national champion contender, BUT we knew he had the knowledge and experience to rebuild the foundation of the program. Despite the big losses to the top teams, the players have made a lot of strides in their performance. Right now the biggest problem, as everyone knows, is depth. Big difference now and from the previous two eras is that Weis is successful on the recruiting trail. The fact that he's staying out in California and moving his way across East shows that he's committed and that he's not giving up. That kind of energy and work ethic will make an impact on this program, if it hasn't already. We also have to give credit to Quinn, Samardzija, Zibbie, McKnight, Laws, Landri, etc. for their hard work and development under Weis. Lou Holtz had a slow start his first two seasons with subpar talent, but he had them competing and they lost some close games to tough teams. In his third year, with a no-name QB in Rice, they win a national title. I see a similar sort of transformation developing under Weis, but with better players. A USC win would've been nice, so would a 12-0 record and a NC title. But we need to be patient and still support our Irish. Bad habits are hard to break, but Weis is doing a good job so far as breaking those habits and instilling good ones. I hope they don't hold Weis to the "third year rule." USC went through some down years before Carroll. I think we found our "Carroll" in Weis. Plus next season, the media will not put a lot of outrageous expectations on ND, which would serve this program better. It may open up a lot of surprises. I don't want to criticize the coaching staff yet, such as Minter or Lewis. I don't know why Jappy was mentioned because I think the DL play was much improved this season. But going back to Minter and Lewis, let's see how they develop better talent. Our freshmen and next year's freshmen DB's remind me of the days of Burris, Covington, Wooden, and Taylor. We have what looks to be a strong LB recruiting class that we sorely need as well as D-linemen. Let's see how they do with "their" players before we start judging the defensive coaches.
Give CW a break on the 4th downs...seemed to me he figured out early on that Minter's kids were speed bumps, and the "scheme" inexplicably exacerbated the gap in athleticism...I thought BQ did a fine job, and showed great poise...vast improvement over Michigan...he missed some throws early but, his receivers failed to execute when he did gather himself(drops, and from the few I could judge, route running wasn'
t all that good either).
Defense...Scheme had a long bushy tail with stripes; execution of fundamentals (positioning,footwork,and tackling) were criminal at this level...and for those wondering what the heck I mean...D-backs aren't supposed to look like tops spinning down the field...you should only see voids in coverage that big when someone falls down (a big cushion is acceptable, but please lord teach these guys to have their feet under them and break on the ball)...uh, here's an oldie but goodie from Pop Warner "hit and wrap"... Only one guy to hang this on...CW. Indeed, D-backs were lesser athletes, and much of the last couple years their pride and determination has kept them in the mix...but this performance was way more than being out "athleted"...
In short...Its ok to lose, but who else is a little burned out on the track meet blowout...I know I am...If I were an offensive player/recruit, Sure, I'd wonder what the heck is going on with the defense, but Charlie can deal with that...its the athletes so desperately needed on defense that will continue to be ellusive until someone puts together a credible season from the DC side...The defense continues to make All-Americans out of guys no one has heard of before. Defense is a huge uphill battle and getting worse...don't count on a defense that ranks among the top 15 or so for another 5 years.
A team with 80 top recruits is going to beat a team with 60 average ones 29 times out of 30.
Our only hope is reduce the talent gap and out coach them.
It was ugly, just like Michigan was ugly. However, in both cases it was an issue of execution. We didn't score when we should have. We dropped a lot of balls. We insisted on trying to be tricky or go for the deep ball instead of running the qb sneak that had worked all year. When all of those things combined, SC had some great field position that left our defense, not just our DBs "on an island" for most of the game. When you look at our two losses this year, I think the opponents' average field position for the Michigan and SC games was about the 45. I'm not sure Minter's system will come around, and I have no idea about how he's doing on the recruiting trail, but other than the 2 or 3 big plays we give up every game our defense has looked pretty good. We don't have the studs to shut people down. We're working on about 2.5 years of talent right now among the 4.25 years of players on our team, and a third of the team is freshmen. We're not that far away, and we're miles away from where we were 2 years ago. I'm worried about recruiting as well, but not that worried. We're only at 11 right now, but I feel pretty good about those 11, and I'm excited about the guys we're still recruiting, especially the guys from Tennessee. Hopefully we can pull off a big win in New Orleans to swing a few more guys our way. Go Irish, beat [SEC Champion]
I HATE SC.
That said, they are a hugely talented and very well coached team. Carrol is an ass, but a great college coach/recruiter. Sc was just flat out better than ND and may beat tOSU.
Re Charlie: 4 winning super bowls, turned ND around from lost to BCS bowls his first 2 years (probably still ok this year) with the same talent the gomer before him couldn't do crap with. I'dd say stop thinking you know more than him, gang.
Re Minter, we had zero athletes on the field last night from the same planet as him. Especially not Zibby or Ndukwe, by the way. Our Dline NEVER knocked Booty down--their Oline was flat better than our Dline. That's not a Minter problem--in teh second quarter, the D played big in fact, and the offense sucked.
Which brings us to our receivers. It may have been different with 89 in the game at TE, but with him out, our guys couldn't get open most of the night, even when BQ had time, which was surprisingly often. And when they had their hands on the ball, they dropped it way too much. That's definitely not a coaching issue, its execution all the way.
Leave these coaches alone--let them do their job getting the talent in. Meanwhile be thankful we had the opportunity this year to possibly sneak into the MNC game in our 12th game of the season.. Pretty damn good vs Charlie's so called coaching predecessors.
Hey I have to agree with what Anonymous said about John Carlson not being on the field. He's been the only consistent. He's been a playmaker all year. Look at what he did at msu catching a 62 yard td pass. Then he caught two tipped balls. He's the real deal for tight end
I have to agree with what Anonymous said. John Carlson is the real deal at tight end. Look at what he did against msu this yr. He is playmaker and the defence has to pay attention to him and it opens up the other recievers and running backs.
This game was a disppointment for all of us. And the coaches made mistakes. But to me, this game was about USC's talent mroe than our coaching problems.
Sure, maybe Charlie shouldn't be going for it so much on 4th. But if Rhema makes that grab and the Irish put it in for 7, then it's 21-17. It's not like it hurt them. More importantly, that's what they've been doing all year, and that's been a crucial part of their success. Weis has certain plays which are really well-designed, and McKnight was open. This is not a slur at Rhema- although he should have made that grab (and 1 other- the 3rd was unfair), he made some others which were pretty difficult plays.
On defense, I didn't think it was our scheme that gave them 7 points as much as their skills. Jarrett is a tremendous athlete, and amde some great catches. When USC turned to run the ball, Gable showed talent. They have two ALl-Americans on the line, with their RT also probably NFL-bound. We forced two turnovers, blocked a punt, and generally gave the offense a chance to win. But USC's defense was really fast and really talented.
This is not to say I didn't think there were some coaching issues. Mintershould have tried to help their DB's more, and found ways to get pressure. (At least one of the two). Oliver should be producing more pressure by the D-Line. But they were getting held an awful lot, and there wasn't much they could do without some help from the men in stripes. While holding is one of those subjective calls, I thought some were pretty egregious. I feel pretty hypocritical blaming the refs last night (and I honstly believe that the holding non-calls were blatant and bad), and blaming Minter & Co. in the morning. They did manage to stop them in the 2nd, cause some turnovers. It seemed they'd made it a game. I turned out that was their quarter, and we needed the Irish to score on their opportunities.
I'm looking forward to the bowl game, both to see our seniors for one last time, and to see how the coaching staff does against a team that doesn't three times as many recruiting stars that we do. If Florida, Arkansas or Michigan run us off the field, then Minter may have to go. But if he produces a solid game, then with a couple more recruits (Chris Donald, Ben Martin, and Will Blackwell: I'm looking at you) we should be pretty good. Not USC good on defense, but with Weis on offense, we won't have to be. Good enough to win a championship though.
The reality and the best that we can hope for is to field a good and competitive team (and hope that we can "back" into a National Championship game). We can still recruit good players, but with the acedemic requirements, we can't recruit at the same level as a USC or Ohio State. As far as Charlie Weiss goes - he is a great football coach and we are lucky to have him at ND (two years ago did anyone actually think that we would play in two consective BCS bowl games???). Next year will be tough, but I look for the Irish to come back strong and be back in the top 10 in 2008.
SPEED. The S.C DB and receivers torched the ND secondary. Michigan did the same thing and in that game ND helped make things worse with turnovers. The receivers and running backs showed their elusive speed and talents. Simialr to the OSU game last year what happened to the ND receivers? Jammed at the line of scrimage and had their lunch handed to them.
I would settle for a 10-2 regular season this year as rebuilding needs to occur...JUST WIN THE BOWL GAME! I can't take another post season loss...it has become a depressing way to start the New Year!
Give Weis a break. He is working with what he was given. He has made a talented QB into the #1 draft pick and the best ND QB not to win the Heisman...He found Samarjida who wasn't even playing....He made Fasano and Carlson big league players...but he doesn't have a junior class....and with all that he is 10-2 in his second year, losing only to the #2 and #3 team in the country..Has #8 Boise State played anybody near that caliber?...Next year will be rough but then he has all his guys.....He is the right guy for Notre Dame in every way...leave him alone.
I want to agree with "Captain Jack". I am reminded of Weis' story about his first coaching job with Parcells, when Parcells told him to shut up and listen since he was so new. We don't know the game at all like Weis does. Weis has been papering over holes in his teams these first two years (lack of depth) like no one's business. We win the games we are supposed to. The team has come miles from where it was last year. Good job, Charlie!
To build upon what Bernie said, the biggest difference between the Irish the past two years and the several years before that is they are winning the games that they are supposed to win. They show up ready to play everyday, which was something that never happened when Tyrone or Bob was walking the sidelines. The fact that they kept losing the games they were supposed to win killed me every year as a fan. With Charlie, I know they are going to take care of business with the teams they are supposed to, which gives them a great chance when they finally have the talent to compete with the other upper tier programs. Another thing that I love is that the players go into games now with the expectation that they will either win or have a chance to win. I think I speak for every ND fan in the nation when I say I believe that every game they play they have at least a chance to win (at the very least). That by itself is a marked improvement over the previous two regimes when you could go through the schedule and count the guaranteed losses. The only thing that concerns me with the losses to the big name teams is that the recruits will not want to come to ND because of those losses. This fear is probably higher than it needs to be though since they finally have a coach that wants to recruit rather than play golf. I believe they will be fine in a few years when their recruiting classes start filling out.
Please give C.W. a break. He's done alot with little. How can you guys complain about his recruiting when his first full try netted ND a top five class? There are so many holes he had to start somewhere and that was OL and DB and he has landed top quality there. Not to mention QB as well where he has covered us for the next five to four years at least. Let's give Mintor and Jappy two more years and see. Being a Giant fan I remember people were screaming to can Parcells. Have some patience boys!
Weis has had two good seasons, better than our last two...I wouldn't exactly call them coaches...but I would like to just win a bowl game for once, if Weis can do that against a quality team like Arkansas or Florida, we are moving in the right direction.
I love Notre Dame, but enough with the excuses. This year's team was average at best. We could have been 1-3 after 4 games, and probably should have been. Returning 18 starters and seeing line play as we did on both sides of the ball says that the talent level is not what we would want it to be, and DEFINITELY that certain coaches are not paying attention. We couldn't "out physical" other physical teams and we got destroyed by athletic teams. I was unaware of the recruiting statistics referenced in another posting, but they don't surprise me, and they explain alot. Also, as far as I am concerned, we were done in by performances falling far short of the hype for Zibby and Samardjia. Love the "tough guy" stuff with Zibby, but how about making a play at safety every once in a while? Samardjia has hands second to none, but they do no good when you can't get open. As a Belitnikoff finalist, I would expect him to be a difference maker consistently. He just wasn't. I would love ND to challenge for the NC year in and year out, but realistically, they have a long, long, long way to go, as evidenced by the blowouts that occur when matched against quality opponents
If you did not see that coming Saturday night, then you have your head in the clouds. First, I love my Irish and I want them to beat the brains out of everyone they play. These are still Willingham's boys on the field. God bless Charlie Weis for coming in and taking a group of guys who could not start on any top 15 team in the beginning of the 2005 season (according to many college football analysist) and making them winners. I use to curse these guys on T.V. when they said the Irish can not compete with the big boys...They maybe right and that's ok. This is the calm before the storm and a lot of programs, plus analysist know this. Last year, Charlie Weis brought in an extreme football savy recruiting class. There is a lot of Defense in that class that is going to be big names come next year...remember this name, Toryan Smith. Also...Charlie Weis will suprise a lot of us who are worried about this recruiting class. The power this man has in getting the players he knows he can win with is impressive. I would not be surprised if he returns with 5 committments from his track back east...all will be 4-5 star recruits. So, maybe next year will be a little rough, but remember this is the calm before the storm.
i think that not only the defensive schemes are a problem but one glaring stat(on both sides of the ball) is getting to and sacking the qb. how many times did we get to booty? henne? troy smith?-werent those "wide open" recievers a cause of blitzes and not loading up to stop the run? i also can take a little comfort in knowing that 10-2 feels like 8-4, however i also realize that will not last-and i truly believe that it will not. notre dame is back- the first step was to win the games you are supposed to win-be competitave in the ones you arent-with a chance to win-and finally win those too. think of all the damage the previouse coaches did not only on the surface but to the psyci(sp) of not only the players but the school the fans and the "experts". when you have to worry as much about your team believing they can win as much as schemes and such- i think weis has done that for the most part. its obviouse that we cannot beat elite teams right now unless we play a virtually mistake free game-in all aspects of the game. that is a tall order indeed.
I really want to be wrong, and be the subject of ridicule after the Bowl games, but the performances against Michigan and USC lead me to conclude, emphatically, that we will get worked by any other team in the top 12. Teams like Florida will handle us like USC did. Teams like Wisconsin will handle us like Michigan did. We're in a black hole; neither athletic, nor physical. Makes for wins against the Armey's, Navy's, and Air Forces of the country, but spells trouble against teams slightly better, but not yet elite (Michigan State; UCLA; Georgia Tech) The "they haven't lost to a team outside of the top 5 in 2 years" stuff is unfortunately going to end when some good (not great) athletic team utilizes the same recipe that worked for those other good but not great teams that got close, but didn't quite have enough to finish. Please God just don't match us with Boise State. A loss there would be too much to take!!!
for all who are concerned about recruiting, the current soph class was as good as cw could do given the situation. and he pointedly said he was not going to use all the available scholly's just to fill out the roster. he wanted certain types of guys. most of the 4- & 5-star recruits were gone anyhow, having not even been looked at by the previous staff. i would look to last year's class as a testament to how the current staff can recruit.
lastly, the rankings of hs players sometimes are just wrong. there have been many 5-stars who never really panned out, or were chronically hurt, as well as some 3-stars who turned out to be near all-americans, if not actually earning that status, and then would up in the pros.
charlie will wind up with the right guys, with all the tools currently lacking on the irish. he's done wonders with some of the guys he inherited, so i'd guess that his ability to do so can only help ("imagine what i can do for you in FOUR years"), especially when coupled with the rings he wears while visiting prospects.
I'M SO TIRED OF HEARING PEOPLE SAY THEY FEEL SORRY FOR CHARLIE WEIS, SINCE HE WASN'T THE ONE TO RECRUIT THIS SENIOR CLASS!!!! THIS IS A GREAT GROUP OF GUYS. STARTING WITH OFFENSE BRADY QUINN WHO BROKE SO MANY RECORDS THIS SEASON AND LAST SEASON,SAMARDZIJA ISN'T THE ONLY RECEIVER ND HAS, RHEMA MCKNIGHT WHO PEOPLE OBVIOUSLY FORGOT ABOUT, CAME BACK BETTER THAN EVER FROM A KNEE INJURY THAT OCCURRED LAST SEASON AND PROVED WHY HE WAS THE TEAMS LEADING RECIEVER FOR TWO YEARS STRAIGHT(2003/2004),YEAH HE DROPPED A BALL ON 4TH DOWN IN THAT GAME AGAINST USC BUT WE SHOULDN'T HAVE EVEN WENT FOR IT ON FORTH DOWN AND EVEN IF HE WOULD'VE MADE THAT CATCH THE OFFENSE STILL WASN'T MOVING THE BALL THE WAY THEY COULD HAVE. HE WILL BE GREAT TO WATCH AT THE NEXT LEVEL. SAMARDZIJA HAS BROKEN SOME RECORDS ALSO, THEN ON DEFENSE YOU HAVE ZIBBY, TRAVIS THOMAS, ABIAMIRI, NDUKWE,AND MIKE RICHARDSON, JUST TO NAME A FEW SO PLEASE STOP SAYING THAT TYRONE WILLINGHAM DIDN'T RECRUIT A GREAT GROUP OF GUYS, LET'S TELL THE TRUTH THE COACHING WAS TERRIBLE THIS SEASON AGAINST OUR TWO BIGGEST OPPONENTS AND THATS WHY WE LOOKED LIKE A MEDIOCRE TEAM NOT BECAUSE WE LACK TALENT BECAUSE WE HAVE PLENTY OF IT. HOPEFULLY COACH WEIS WILL LOOK @ BOTH THESE GAMES REAL CLOSE AND SEE WHAT COACHING ADJUSTMENTS HE NEEDS TO MAKE IN ORDER TO WIN THE BOWL GAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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