St. Bonaventure to MAAC for men's lacrosse in 2019
by tf86 (2018-07-06 12:33:42)

As an affiliate. Old news, but . . .

This surprised me for a few reasons.

1. A-10 will have four full members playing men's lacrosse. I would have thought that they would be looking to sponsor the sport. By way of comparison, the SoCon only has three full members playing men's lacrosse (Furman, Mercer and VMI), yet sponsors men's lacrosse with five additional affiliate members.

2. MAAC already had seven men's lacrosse members, including one affiliate (Detroit). It also has one school which is predominantely a member of the conference but which plays men's lacrosse in the CAA as an affiliate (Fairfield). Given the numbers, the MAAC didn't really need to add St. Bonaventure, at least not at the current time. Yes, there is an advantage to scheduling -- no more bye weeks for the members during the conference part of the schedule -- but that is offset by the unbalanced home/road conference schedule an 8-team conference requires. And the MAAC member who definitely makes sense as an annual opponent for St. Bonaventure (Canisius) probably would have been an annual opponent regardless of conference affiliation.

In any event, probably a smart move for St. Bonaventure. I'm all for more independents in the sport, but independence only works for a true powrehouse. The current independents we see (Cleveland State, Hampton, and NJIT) are more or less forced to go that way. Those schools have no theoretical path to the NCAA tournament. At least St. Bonaventure has that.




How about offering Utah associate ACC membership?
by hoomanbeing  (2018-07-19 15:26:14)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

They've got to come to the East to play away games regardless of the conference they're in. Their opponents have to fly west to play them regardless of which conference they're in. We invite them and get our AQ back. At some point, I'm sure Denver and the USAFA will join Utah and some other teams in a Far West conference, but until then, why not take advantage of the opportunity?


If it were any other conference, I think it'd be a slam dunk
by tf86  (2018-08-01 19:34:41)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

The ACC seems content without an AQ bid, however.

Utah might be a little reluctant, given that it almost assuredly would take years for them to win a game in conference. That said, Utah may have some difficulty filling out a complete schedule without a conference, unless they want to play a lot of games on the road.


Surprised Louisville hasn't moved from club to varsity
by NDoggie78  (2018-08-01 09:43:03)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

They have been talking about it for years. Local high schools have lacrosse and Bellarmine Univ. (in Louisville) has varsity lacrosse.


One problem I see with that
by tf86  (2018-08-01 19:38:25)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

If the ACC expands from within, I think they'll need to add at least two members, rather than only one. Adding two gives the new teams an opportunity to be competitive in at least one conference game per year.

Title IX also seems to be a significant stumbling block for most schools that play FBS-level football. Utah didn't have a significant problem with Title IX because the school has a majority male enrollment.


For L'ville, Title IX numbers won't let them have a varsity.
by hoomanbeing  (2018-08-07 13:38:43)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

It is almost impossible for any FBS school that already has a WLax team to start an MLax team because WLax is used to get their Title IX numbers up. Plus, Louisville already has a rowing team which has the largest number of scholarships for women (20) and usually the biggest roster for participation count purposes. FSU has a Sugar Daddy who will pay to start both teams if they can resolve their Title IX numbers. Ga Tech and NCSU, as engineering schools, have the best Title IX positions, but need a Sugar Daddy/Mommy to pay for it. Ga Tech's MCLA club team has been in the club Top 10 for the past 2 years, IIRC.


I've noticed a number of FBS programs only recently add
by tf86  (2018-08-09 16:45:25)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

W Lax. In recent years, Akron, Arizona State, Central Michigan, East Carolina and Kent State all have added or will in the very near future add women's lacrosse programs. Unless these moves were necessary to correct an existing Title IX deficiencies, I would have to guess that all could add men's lacrosse programs as well.

Among non-FBS Division I schools, Butler, Dayton, Radford and Wofford all recently added women's lacrosse programs. I would guess that the Title IX issues for those schools all would be considerably easier without FBS-level football.


Those FBS schools probably did it to bring up their ...
by hoomanbeing  (2018-08-27 15:20:04)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

current Title IX numbers. It will be a while, if ever, before they have men's teams. Butler and Radford don't have foootball teams, so that helps their compliance. Butler had a men's team and dropped it in 2007. Dayton and Wofford have FCS (D-1AA) football teams. They have a 65 total scholarship limit that can be spread out over 85 players. They can give partial scholarships, while FBS (D-1A) can't.


Can't be Title IX for UofL -more womens scholarships than ND
by NDoggie78  (2018-08-07 16:45:19)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

At least by my math - NCAA math could be something completely different

Notre Dame and Louisville have 9 Men's sports in common:
Baseball (11.7), Basketball (13), Cross Country & Track (12.6), Football (85), Golf (4.5), Soccer (9.9), Swimming & Diving (9.9) for a scholarship limit number of 151.1

Notre Dame also has Men's sports - Fencing (4.5), Hockey (18), & Lacrosse (12.6) for an Additional 35.1. So a Men's total of 186.2

Notre Dame and Louisville have 11 Women's sports in common:
Basketball (15), Cross Country & Track (18), Golf (6), Lacrosse (12), Rowing (20), Soccer (14), Softball (12), Swimming & Diving (14), Tennis (8), Volleyball (12) for a scholarship limit number of 131

Louisville Women have Field Hockey which adds 12 more for a total of 143
Notre Dame Women have Fencing which adds 5 for a total of 136

Bottomline, Notre Dame has 35.1 more Mens scholarships than Louisville and & 7 fewer Women's scholarships - at least according the NCAA scholarship limits

Women's sports don't quite equal the Men's numbers for either team

"According to the NCAA, there are three basic parts of Title IX as it applies to athletics: participation, scholarships and other benefits. Institutions must have participation opportunities that are proportionate to their respective rates of full-time undergraduate students or show a history and continued practice of program expansion for the underrepresented sex."


It's not an absolute number of scholarships by sex
by tf86  (2018-08-09 16:33:50)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Rather, the percentage of athletic scholarships by sex has to be proportional to overall enrollment by sex.

Notre Dame has more male students than female students, and therefore can provide more athletic scholarships to male student-athletes than to female student-athletes, so long as the proportion approximates the proportion of overall male/female student enrollment.

I don't know what Louisville's exact enrollment numbers are, but I would make an educated guess that they have a higher proportion of female students than ND has. In that case, they are required to award more athletic scholarships to female student-athletes, proportionately speaking, than ND is.


I get that, but some quick search numbers
by NDoggie78  (2018-08-10 09:04:36)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

showed ND at 53% male, 47% female

UofL was about 50% each (49.5% male, 50.5 female)

That doesn't appear far enough apart to allow ND 35 more men's scholarships than Louisville, yet 7 fewer women's. Either enrollment numbers are wrong, there's more criteria I'm not considering, ND out of compliance (maybe I should quit looking), OR Louisville as room to add more men's scholarships (lacrosse).

Now, there could be many more reasons for not adding, I just don't think Title IX is it (and again I could be completely wrong). This is given as the excuse whenever the question comes up - it's easy to blame "Title IX", but ND has found a way to do it.

One more thing, since hoomanbeing first brought up Title IX, I looked at UVA's numbers, too. They list 13 Men's varsity sports, and 14 Women's varsity sports (they list squash for both men's and women's, but I couldn't find NCAA scholarship limits for squash).
Total Men's scholarships = 173.6
Total Women's scholarships = 143

Enrollment percentages Men 44.3%, Women 55.7%
So those numbers don't work out either.
Obviously, I know less than these Universities and the NCAA rules, but my point still stands - if ND and UVA can have a lacrosse team under Title IX restrictions, it would "appear" UofL could as well.


Squash is not an NCAA sport. There are no scholly limits ...
by hoomanbeing  (2018-08-27 15:10:28)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

set by India-noplace. It does count against Title IX because the teams are now sponsored by the school and aren't club teams anymore. Men's rowing is not an NCAA sport, but if you have a varsity and not a club (like the Ivies and Syracuse) it counts against your Title IX numbers as well. We're not in Title IX compliance numberswise by any stretch. I think we're considered "OK" only because we have teams in everything people have asked for. About the only women's teams I can think of that we don't have are equestrian, water polo, bowling, and gymnastics.


Wasn't calling UVA out
by NDoggie78  (2018-09-17 10:03:18)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

or ND for that matter. Only pointing out that Title IX numbers alone don't "appear" to be the reason Louisville doesn't have lacrosse. They would seem to be a natural fit to help get the ACC an automatic bid (probably not necessary).

The area has become somewhat a hotbed for lacrosse (not to the extent of the eastern seaboard - but growing)

I assumed squash wasn't an NCAA sport - only mentioned it because UVA's site did. Thanks for the further info.