...fuck. Clearly the fight is absurd and deplorable. But in his first two paragraphs he whines about every conceivable aspect of anybody’s kid playing any sport. He strikes me as the kind of guy who goes into just about everything with a negative attitude and then, surprise, it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. He’s just using the fight as an excuse to whine about kids sports generally.
My two kids are right in the thick of youth sports mania. Two seasons of the year we could have 10 basketball games in a weekend with my two kids playing 80 miles apart from each other. We knew what we were getting into going in and we all love the competition and the great life lessons that come from it. The kids make great friends and it’s a far more productive use of their time then Fortnight. There are inconveniences and negative events here-and-there which we typically let roll off our backs. I’ve seen a coach purposefully step onto the court to impede an opposing player’s fast break. I’ve seen a coach yell at a ref not to disrespect him because the ref wouldn’t like the consequences. I’ve heard parents yell negative things about opposing players (including my kids). It’s no different from any other part of life as somebody pointed out below. There are people doing shitty things in every aspect of life. You can either let it roll off your back and keep a positive attitude or whine about it and let “them” ruin it for you. But the full blame almost never lies on “them.”
why is this behavior by parents tolerable? IMHO it isn't - for a bunch of reasons. But one big problem is what the hell are kids learning from this juvenile conduct? And then everybody wrings their hands down the road about "entitled jocks."
I don't think anybody would attempt to justify the fistfight that is the backdrop of that article - or any behavior even close to it. But across the spectrum of parent behaviors in youth sports I suspect that my filter lets more stuff through as "acceptable" and I just typically try to avoid getting worked up about the stuff that isn't acceptable. I certainly don't aggregate the unacceptable stuff and let it ruin my own or my kids' enjoyment of the sport.
It's competition. It's supposed to get one's adrenaline and "competitive juices" flowing. From time-to-time, one of my kid's teams will be getting blown out by 20+ points in an AAU hoops game and it will start to piss me off that the opposing parents are wildly cheering every basket like it's a tied championship game. But I catch myself and think "The problem isn't them; it's that you're being sensitive. They're excited about their kid." So I try to practice what I preach. Do I think it's better to "act like you've been there before" and tone it down when your team is up by 20? Absolutely. But I'm not going to let myself get worked up if another parent doesn't. And especially not bitch about it long afterward or let it affect my (or my kid's) enjoyment of the game generally.
Just enjoy your kids and create and environment where he/she enjoys it too
Half the fun for kids is the gear and uniforms and stuff. The other half is the treats after the game.
I heard a guy once say that the only thing his dad said after a game was, "geez, I love watching you play ________" I learned from that and did the same thing. The last thing a kid wants to do in the post-game car ride is get coached and critiqued and/or criticized.
And let the kids enjoy it. If you can't tell whether or not your kid enjoys it, you're doing something wrong.
I was the intense parent, critiquing (I wasn't coaching - I know that now) my son's races and such after his events (swimmer). I read that statement somewhere and it hit me like a ton of bricks. He was about 10 at the time and is now 16 and still swims in our summer league.
My favorite moments are after his races grabbing the fist bump, quick hug, or even the glance across the pool if I happen to be working the meeting signaling that I am proud of him and enjoy watching. Let the coaches coach, I enjoy being the parent.
My kids are into lacrosse and swimming. I couldn't even spell lacrosse growing up in southern Indiana, and I'm a terrible swimmer. Even if I wanted to helicopter parent and get on their case, I wouldn't know what I'm talking about. I just sit back and enjoy the games/meets, comfortable in my ignorance.
In the past, they've played baseball and soccer, which I played a lot as a kid. I've had to stop myself mid-critique on a number of occasions, and probably failed to stop a few times. It takes a lot of restraint.
I cheer at the wrong time and get upset at the wrong calls...actually, it's the best. I just go out and enjoy a nice day and watch my son having a blast.
Great point
few of the problems I have witnessed in football and soccer (baseball scared me off from even trying it out as a parent). I think it’s a combo of two things - there’s no college scholarships/professional opportunities that parents are fighting for and rugby players cultivate a unique form of competition that’s very focused on camaraderie. When most parents also played, it creates a very laid back sideline. I hope it’s that way everywhere.
Aside from our society deteriorating in general, I don't think this behavior is any worse that it ever was. At least as it was when I was a kid in the 80's/early 90's.
In fact, I'd say when I was a kid parents behaved worse. The zero tolerance approach taken towards parents and coaches has gotten a little out of hand. One instance comes to mind this past year from my daughters soccer game. The other team had a couple of girls who were wildly out of control. Pushing, throwing elbows, etc... After multiple instances without a call I finally said, "Come on, somebody is going to get seriously hurt out there" That was it, first time I said anything no profanity, nothing more than what I put in quotes. Referee (fully grown 50+ adult) stops the game. Comes to the sideline, demands to know who said that, so I raise my hand. She says "One more word out of you and you're gone".
I appreciate the work referees do but you've got to have thicker skin than that.
I know it's an odd request because we're talking about youth sports, after all.
but I'll stand by the point generally. My own experience is that it's gotten worse in youth hockey because of the whole travel league mentality, etc. and the greater focus on kids being involved in one sport. That has just raised delusions about what kids can actually achieve, etc. There have always been obnoxious parents in youth hockey. But - just like the growing insanity about college admissions - I think it's gotten worse.
I'm not sure about decorum of parents, but the volume has definitely changed a ton since I was a kid. We had one guy from my high school drafted in the 7th round after college. My nephew plays way, way more games at 8 than my friend did at the same age in the same area of the country.first year of travel at 6 now versus 10 then.
there are kids having screwed up experiences playing sports they like who will never be able to compensate by earning $$$ at the game. If John Tavares wants to effectively be a professional at 14 by being designated "exceptional" that might be a smart decision, given what he's earning in the NHL. But we're talking about some absurdly small %.
stuff. From community center basketball and flag football with volunteer coaches to soccer, then swimming and wrestling with nationally-recognized coaches.
I suppose our family members wouldn't last long in the type of environment described.
If competition is involved, there are going to be situations where people behave poorly. It’s not really anything new either, and it’s not specific to kid sports. Are there people behaving badly in competitive business situations? You better believe it.
Organized kid sports have only been in existence since around the end of WW2. People act like George Washington used a Louisville Slugger to chop down his cherry tree. They also act like youth sports were some bastion of purity until 10 years ago (or more likely when they became parents of kids who were now participating). It hasn’t changed much, we all just have so much more information shoved into our face that makes us think it was so much better before people got crazy.
My parents bit the bullet and bought me a pair of Dr J converse hi-tops in 197whatever when it probably meant the family couldn’t go out to Shakey’s Pizza that week because of it. My parents believed in competition through organized sports and all the good and bad that come from it. I’m a better person today for having experienced the winning and the losing and the witnessing of the good and bad behavior of coaches, parents, players, referees and bystanders.
If you don’t like it, then either get more involved and change it or quit (as this guy and his kid have chosen to do). Have your kid take up golf, as one of mine chose to do when he decided to quit organized team sports at 14. You will still find parents behaving poorly in junior golf tournaments, but probably less so than baseball.
I just get a little tired of the whining of guys like this. Life isn’t fair...why should kid sports be fair. If you think it’s over the top, get your kid to take up the french horn. I’m sure the parental behavior at music recitals is splendid.
I've made a list, I've checked it twice. I've decided who's naughty and nice. Some haymakers are coming to town!
As you know, I never said it was okay to punch someone in the office. I’m racking my brain to remember when I’ve seen it and can’t remember it happening specially but probably did at one time or another when I was in a combat arms organization in the army.
I do remember a situation in business where I had 2 former military officers who worked for me that disagreed about something we were looking at implementing. One of the guys happened to be a West Point graduate. He was smart fucker, but could be a real prick sometimes. When the WPer realized he was losing the argument, he started subtly belittling this other good guy who had gone to Norwich. It finally got to the point where Norwich grad told west pointer (who was a much bigger guy, I might add) that if he did it again he was going to kick his ass. West Pointer did it again and Norwich walked over, picked him up out of his chair and body slammed him. He didn’t punch him, but he made his point and neither my partner or me did much about it other than separate them. Best I can do.
seriously, man, you think that's tolerable in the workplace? From every angle it appears to have been mishandled. And I note that it presumably didn't occur in the presence of a few 11-year-old's, because if it did you breached every obligation I can think of.
is an okey-dokey way to solve workplace disputes.
living out their insecurities through their kids' sports? I've seen alleged adults wildly berating officials in kids' hockey, jumping aggressively on coaches about ice time because less talented kids are getting ice time, etc. I've seen kids leaving a rink crying because Daddy was off the rails on one thing or another, embarrassing the kid in front of everybody. That's great for "learning". I don't remotely understand why this crap from supposed adults should be tolerated or should be allowed to drive a kid away from something he/she wants to play. We're not talking about Major Juniors, high school/NCAA here. The competition and coaching gives plenty of chance for a kid to learn how to deal with bad behavior as he/she grows up. We don't need the lessons coming from moronic parents.
Or get more involved in the current league and bring about change. Be warned, either way it’s going to take a lot of hard work on your part and it typically doesn’t pay well. And no matter how hard you try to do things the right way, there are going to be some who will disparage you and your league for any number of different reasons.
I’d happily give your league a shot if I had any more kids.
the culture. Maybe what you suggest is the answer - not that many parents have the time to undertake that sort of grassroots organizational effort. The fix, of course, is for leagues to ban idiot parents who are less mature than their kids and are living out their own frustrated dreams through children. I know all about what it takes - in youth hockey, anyway. There's something wrong with a system in which officials, coaches, and kids are dealing with this crap when all anybody wants is for the kids to have fun playing a game they like and learning. I know of one league that finally just decided that parents are limited to drop off and pick up. Pretty sad.
You make it sound so easy. We’ll just get rid of the “frustrated dreamers.”
Who will be the arbiter of frustrated dreamers in your fantasy league? And what happens if the arbiter himself goes off the rails? What if there isn’t consensus on who the reasonable parent is and who the frustrated dreamer coach is?
Here is the answer. There is no “fix.” Learn to live with the fact that there is going to be some bad behavior. It’s part of the game and part of the learning experience. Granted, parents throwing haymakers on the field crosses a line and is much easier to distinguish whose behavior warrants expulsion/banning and probably more punishment beyond the authority of anyone in the league. But those situations are very rare...most of what you deal with is much more gray.
Sometimes frustrated dreamer coaches learn through experience to grow out of that phase. Are you going to ban a coach in season one as soon as you determine that he meets your definition of such? Is he a bad person for having volunteered and then forgotten in a certain situation that he was an adult now and not the kid he was 15 or 20 years ago? I could go on and on with “what ifs” that I have personally experienced as player, coach, parent, league administrator, etc.
Why? Why should be accept insanely stupid behavior? No, I'm not going to normalize it. I'm not going to stop getting pissed about about rageaholic parents ruining little league for kids who can do nothing but stand by helplessly.
we have an awful lot of work to do. You seem intent on somehow defending or deflecting from adults who act like juveniles about kids' sports. Don't assume I haven't personally experienced bad behavior in sports, because if you do you'll be dead wrong. You really think that parents throwing haymakers over a kids' game "crosses the line" and isn't just a valuable learning moment for the kids? We're making progress. In the meantime, the "frustrated dreamers" I'm referring to are the parents who cannot act like adults or role models in connection with their kids' sports. You think I'm in some negligible minority on this? Wrong again.
In fact, the players were terrible sports who used to trash talk each other during the games. Parents yelled at the umpires from the sidelines.
I was 9 years old and I realized that I disliked organized baseball.
The kids absolutely heckled the shit out of each other. It was bad.
I honestly don't remember my parents ever going to one of my baseball games (football yes, but not baseball). I'm sure they did, but just as often they dropped me off or I walked to the field. It definitely wasn't as crazy (in my experience) on the parent side as it is today.
oddly, that's the sort of bullshit that led a friend of mine to bag coaching youth hockey halfway through the season.
Fred Cuzick covering a game in which no. 8 had gotten involved with a guy on the opposing team and the linesmen thought they had corralled each - "Wait ... Neely's loose!"