Reuse, Reduce and Recycle.
by TWO (2019-07-15 15:55:26)

Plastic and Glass. This article says that currently recycling of plastics and glass is not the best option, that landfills are a better option. At least for now. A big part of the reason is that we used to ship this stuff to China, but they won't take it anymore and that is driving up the cost, an example was that one city could sell their recyclable stuff to China for $6 a ton, now they are paying 125$ a ton to recycle it.

This article claims Landfills for plastics and glass are the way to go. Recycling metal is still good, soup cans, whatever.
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Moreover, landfilling waste is not the evil many assume it to be. Modern landfills in the developed world are highly regulated, with sophisticated systems to protect groundwater, methods of compacting trash as tightly as possible, and even ways of siphoning off methane gas and burning it to produce electricity. Despite the myth that we're running out of landfill space, current estimates indicate that the U.S. has about 58 years until we need to build additional facilities.

As Kinnaman discovered in a 2014 study – a complete life cycle analysis of the recycling process




I have long felt that recycling does more harm than good
by Nathan  (2019-07-15 19:19:39)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Recycling has had the unintended consequence of increaseing consumption. I wouldn't be surprised if the world would be better off if we never attempted to recycle plastic. It allowed People to buy Single use plastics guilt free because they were going to throw them in recycling. They have done more harm than good. Also a lot of cities had to buy a second set of trucks once they started recycling programs.


Straight question: does it make goods cheaper? *
by G.K.Chesterton  (2019-07-15 23:42:51)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


Speaking for rigid plastics
by Twinkie the Kid  (2019-07-16 10:01:03)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

The cost to recycle and repurpose a plastic bottle into new resin/plastic bottles is almost exactly the same as using new raw material.


correct
by boethius  (2019-07-15 21:53:24)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

"Recycling has had the unintended consequence of increaseing consumption" that's bang on and this is my issue with recycling. it affects nothing on the behaviour side - which is 100% of the problem with waste imo.


The juxtaposition of this thread with the one below it
by 88_92WSND  (2019-07-15 17:19:18)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

is interesting. Reduce/Reuse/Recycle on the day a major company is seeking to boost consumption, with a good deal of the materiel being consumed coming from the country which is no longer taking it and/or its packing material back as recycling fodder.


Planet Money just did a two-parter on this.
by starburns  (2019-07-15 16:52:41)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

We really just need to reduce one-use plastics.


Serious question: Why do we need to?
by airborneirish  (2019-07-16 01:28:07)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

What are the top two reasons to do so?


My city just banned plastic bags
by rutfilthygers  (2019-07-15 20:33:32)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

I'm not going to lie, it's been a bit difficult to get used to. I don't like that I'm essentially required to carry around a tote bag.

Went to a baseball game recently and they'd banned plastic straws. Even the paper ones were only available upon request.


The segment includes the revelation that
by starburns  (2019-07-16 00:32:27)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

the environmental impact of a cotton tote bag is worse by an order of magnitude than a plastic bag because of the relative water-intensivity of production. The economists they interviewed estimated charging people $0.05 a bag was actually more effective than bans.

DC banned straws recently but before that my local coffee place went to paper and “shark safe” straws. The former have obvious drawbacks; the latter can’t stand up against the star-puncture lids. Starbucks and a few other places have started offering cold drink lids that don’t require straws. But I went and bought a Yeti tumbler with a hard plastic straw and have it filled with iced coffee. Bonuses include I get extra coffee because baristas like the tumbler so they fill it to 22 oz every time and it doesn’t sweat from condensation.


I travel with an insulated water bottle and coffee mug
by thecontrarian (click here to email the poster)  (2019-07-16 14:26:46)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

I know that I save at least $1 at my local convenience store when I bring my own mug. The coffee stays hotter longer as well.


Interestingly--the Danes proved this is actually worse
by Allumeuse  (2019-07-15 21:22:17)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

The entire world is a hellscape.


I really dislike disposable plastic shopping bags
by thecontrarian (click here to email the poster)  (2019-07-16 14:31:11)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

I have plastic reusable bags that have lasted 5+ years and hold lots more stuff than the flimsy disposable bags provided at my supermarket.

I have no idea what to do.


This is the key. I think more people are becoming
by ndwifemom  (2019-07-15 18:16:55)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

sensitive to the issue.


Idiots running the asylum. This makes me very angry.
by The Flash  (2019-07-15 16:42:36)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

I started a recycling venture in 1998 to recycle the blight of scrap rubber
tires from the face of the earth.

I had an innovative, engineered, customized, economical, ecologically safe
solution with the sanction of our State Legislature and support of a
nationally recognized engineering institution.

A pox on the narrow minded capitalists with no vision.

The difficulty is that the viewers are the problem, not the material. The
difficulty is that the difficulty is viewed as a material handling
problem for the large waste disposal companies, and not as an energy and
new-product development opportunity.

Pyrolisis.

Idiots. Capitalist pigs. It will be 200 years before these fucks get it.
So, fuck the fucks who run the system that perpetuates the problem and not
the only reasonable solutions.


Flash


If it is a good idea that can make money, capitalists
by dillonhall  (2019-07-15 18:04:04)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

will fund ideas and vison.


Sorry, friend, that's The Furtive Fallacy.
by The Flash  (2019-07-16 16:39:48)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Outcomes in the case of my enterprise were caused by the malfeasance of decision makers.

Decision makers make the decisions.

People with money are the decision makers.

Decision makers decide what is a good idea that will make THEM money.

It the idea will not make them money, then it must not be a good idea.

Welcome to my world.


Flash


This has been going on for a while
by Allumeuse  (2019-07-15 16:32:24)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

The interesting thing is that a lot of cities that are now having to landfill recyclables are sticking with their collection programs, including fines, because of a significant fear that if people stop recycling, they won't go back to doing so again once we either can ship to China again or develop another country/domestic recycling infrastructure.

I kind of agree with the sentiment--human behavior is extremely hard to change and it took almost thirty years to really get people to recycle with frequency.


It's not complicated, just difficult. Separate waste ...
by Barney68  (2019-07-15 19:05:19)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

streams for efficient recycling. Aluminum with aluminum, newsprint with newsprint, clear plastic unpressurized (no fizz) bottles with clear plastic unpressurized bottles. (Pressurized are a much bigger problem because they're made in layers of different molecular structure; bun 'em.)

The problem is that either the producer does this, and the public is both hard to train and hates the task, or the recycling stream does this, and it costs more money than the material is worth unless the labor is very, very cheap.

Take newsprint: it tears easily in one direction, raggedly in the other because the wood fibers are both long and lined up in one direction (the easy tear is parallel to the fibers). It's either make it that way or the modern high-speed press doesn't work because the paper fails. No other paper has such long fibers; those fibers break every time the paper is returned to pulp and reused.

The same is true about almost all other items that are recycled for their material. The gold in electronic gadgets? Deposited in thicknesses measured in atoms and damned difficult to recover because there is such a tiny amount compared to everything else.

Yes, recycling can reuse valuable material, but only if you can separate it. And separating it is labor intensive which is a synonym for "expensive."


It’s almost like people just rely to the subject lines
by Allumeuse  (2019-07-15 21:11:15)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

None of this is really related to my post unless you are just suggesting that Americans are just too stupid to figure out recycling, which, well, yes, they have generally been too stupid to figure out recycling so municipalities don't really want the equivalent of the summer slide of trash to happen.


I have no sympathy for provincialism or idiocy.
by The Flash  (2019-07-15 16:45:52)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

There are solutions. They only need to be accepted. Recycling is like
cancer. There are cures, but the cures are repressed by the vested interests.


There must be more than this provincial life *
by TouchdownJebus  (2019-07-16 09:27:02)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


Cash Rules Everything Around Me
by The Holtz Room  (2019-07-16 12:34:50)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

C.R.E.A.M. get the money
Here we here we go
Dolla dolla bill y'all


If true, how shall we work this to our advantage? LOL *
by The Flash  (2019-07-16 16:49:12)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


???? *
by Allumeuse  (2019-07-15 16:56:39)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


as a card carrying provincial idiot I'm not insulted but
by abqgant  (2019-07-15 19:31:51)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

I think I'm supposed to be. How can I be sure?

[leaving now to dump a week's worth of plastic bottles in a nearby lake]


Well said. *
by PWK2  (2019-07-15 19:31:20)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


I am very confused
by Allumeuse  (2019-07-15 21:12:28)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Because this is not remotely related to what I posted and also ???? in general.


Ah man, ???? would have been a great handle. *
by 1NDGal  (2019-07-15 22:27:13)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


I'm working with a Chinese group right now that wants...
by Fresno Mike  (2019-07-15 16:31:12)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

...to open a plastic recycling business here. They will receive the plastic items in bales that they feed into a machine that converts it to a resin which can then be re-used as another plastic product.


One of the reasons recycling is on the decline
by starburns  (2019-07-16 00:43:29)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

is that the Chinese companies we used to sell our plastic to aren’t buying anymore.


The real reason is that virgin materials are still cheaper. *
by The Flash  (2019-07-16 16:50:45)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


I have a Brazilian client that does the same thing
by Twinkie the Kid  (2019-07-15 20:52:41)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

They're looking to invest North America but we're horrible recyclers. There's no supply here. Their facility in Rio recycles 1.5 billion plastic bottles a year back into food grade plastic bottles.

They have a facility in Spain and are building one at the request of Danone and Nestle in France.


It will never work.
by The Flash  (2019-07-15 16:48:04)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Not because they are Chinese, but because they have an answer.

The trouble is like renewable energy or any alternative to the vested
interests of the hydrocarbon industry. They are powerful and they will
never permit an answer to the "virgin material" commodity industries.

Sorry.

Tell the Chinese to save their energy and spend their money in Korea, where
recycling as been accepted in a big way.


Burning plastic is very efficient. The stuff is "solid ...
by Barney68  (2019-07-15 16:20:20)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

gasoline" with lots of hydrogen bonds. The problem with other recycling processes is that each plastic molecule has specific advantages so the plastic involved in each application has to be separated from all the others for efficient recycling. With bottles having multiple layers with different plastics in each layer, especially in the fizzy drinks, that get's real hard.

Paper is a similar issue. Newsprint is a specific product. Printer paper ditto. In both cases, there are tight requirements on the finished product that contains the recycled fiber that are real hard to meet if the percent of reused material gets very high.

Aluminum and copper are the most advantageous to recycle. Iron/steel is good. None of those are quite as easy as might be hoped, however, because even the metals are very specific alloys. You can't just melt all the iron together and end up with something that's ready for the next step unless it's a low-value application.

Glass doesn't really work at all well. One bottle the wrong color screws the batch up.

Plastic ain't plastic; paper ain't paper, metal ain't metal, glass ain't glass. Those generic categories are meaningless from a resource recovery point of view. Separating the waste streams into very specific materials is the first step to actually reusing stuff.

The Chinese got tired of using our trash, in part at least, because the waste stream was extremely unreliable ... they never knew load to load what would be there and so were having more and more trouble with it. Rising wages made separation more expensive. Add trade wars to that, and you lose the customer.

Bottom line is that the religious view of recycling everything is economically a problem and one that destroys the economics of the process.


What about what WA state has done regarding composting?
by catripledomer  (2019-07-15 19:42:53)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

How does this stack up against recycling? I haven't done any research yet, but it seems like a better solution. I am shocked that California hasn't gone this route yet.


Composting is very popular there but as far as ...
by Barney68  (2019-07-15 20:53:13)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

I know, very few plastics are compostable. The problem is that the molecules are long and composting really only attacks the ends of the chain. Thus it takes a very long time for the entire molecule to degrade.

There are bioplastics but, as far as I know, they don't offer much improvement in this area as it is the length of the molecule that matters and it's long molecules that give most plastics their strength.


My county burns the trash & generates electricity *
by thecontrarian (click here to email the poster)  (2019-07-15 17:46:33)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


It may be efficient, but without appropriate controls can
by ndnjlaw  (2019-07-15 16:25:05)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

also lead to the creation and emission of dioxin.


The same is true of burning 'most anything.
by Barney68  (2019-07-15 18:54:43)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Coal is loaded with toxins. Depending on the source, oil has lots of sulfur.

There are a lot of good regulations out there ...


I try to reduce.
by Porpoiseboy  (2019-07-15 15:59:05)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Only reason I bought a Soda Stream was to stop bringing disposable plastic bottles into my home. It works. Now most my trash is just vegetables I bought with the best intentions, got them home, and I realized I don't own a fuckin rabbit.


Time to start composting, fishy. *
by Mark_It_Zero  (2019-07-15 16:04:44)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


I'm much more well known for my broposting.
by Porpoiseboy  (2019-07-15 19:58:35)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

This is my new fuckin haircut!


Not now, chief
by Mark_It_Zero  (2019-07-15 20:12:35)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

I'm in the fucking zone.


Porpoises are known for making excellent compost.
by BeastOfBourbon  (2019-07-15 17:50:40)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

But you have to do a lot of chopping and hacking. It helps to have a good wood chipper...and, of course, the ability to wipe the image of that charming smile from your mind as you toss the head in the chute.