Where did they get those numbers?
by mintirish (2021-08-02 13:20:28)

In reply to: It’s on the CDC site but  posted by vermin05


I know what the categories are. How did they pick those case counts as the definition for low, moderate, high substantial. Have they shown the reasoning behind that?

And last fall/winter case counts meant something different than they do today. We should be looking at hospitalizations, not cases. And if you still want to use cases (since they are a leading indicator) using the same numbers are last year is makes no sense since the percent of hospitalizations to cases has gone way down with the vaccines.


"percent of hospitalizations to cases has gone way down
by ufl  (2021-08-02 14:27:31)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

with vaccines"?

The 7 day average of new cases peaked on January 7 at about 260,000 per day. The 7 day average of hospitalizations on January 11 at about 140,000.

Yesterday the 7 day average of new cases as about 80,000 and the 7 day average of hospitalizations was about 45,000.

Now vs January

Two questions: (a) where do the numbers to back up the claim above come from?

and (b) why would we even expect it to be so since the preponderance of current cases and hospitalizations are among the non-vaccinated?


Thanks for posting the data
by mintirish  (2021-08-02 14:55:57)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

I was relying on the data from the UK in my mind and the local NY data - hadn't checked the national data in a week or so.

Deaths are still way down because the most vulnerable group at 65+ is heavily vaccinated. Let's hope it stays that way as the cases peak in the next couple of weeks.


On your part b question
by OrangeJubilee  (2021-08-02 14:38:02)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

The vax/non-vax cohorts are not the same, specifically by age. The older who were far more likely to have serious cases are much more likely to be vaxed. So the pool of non-vaxed people skews younger which inherently will have a much lower hospitalization/cases rate, just like if we compared a group of young professionals to senior citizens.

Obviously not 1-to-1 but the unvaccinated are mostly not elderly.


I certainly expect (hope) that this will work with deaths
by ufl  (2021-08-02 14:43:01)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

when we match the peak in new cases with the (presumably) later peak in deaths.

Hospitalizations may be more correlated with obesity, etc. which may be more prevalent among the unvaccinated than they are in the population as a whole. Any theoretical break in the relationship is certainly not evident in the data so far.


It is evident in the UK data, but not in the Florida data
by Father Nieuwland  (2021-08-02 14:56:24)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

I assume that is a factor of vaccination rates and ages (UK vaccination rate is 75%+ for all age groups 40 yrs +).

Repeating my post from last week:

UK heavily vaccinated as well. July cases peak hit 80% of the January surge peak (7 day average cases of 46,837 in June vs 59,417 in January).

However, deaths (still rising) seem to be on pace to be less than 10% of the January surge peak (deaths are still trending up, the 8 days after the July cases peak the 7 day average death number is 71 vs 1,121 average 8 days after the January cases peak).

Vaccines may not be able to eliminate positive tests. But they do seem to be effective at minimizing hospitalizations and deaths among the vulnerable.

The majority of the vulnerable are easily identified by age. Protecting the vulnerable from hospitalization and death is an achievable goal and can be accomplished by vaccinating the vulnerable.


Also evident in the NL data
by ndhouston  (2021-08-02 15:36:30)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Looks like hospitalizations are peaking now. Cases are falling almost as quickly as they rose.

The Dutch recently caught up to the UK in the vaccination program.


I expect a smart quant guy will probably construct a formula
by Father Nieuwland  (2021-08-02 15:42:03)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

based on the state's vaccinated/unvaccinated demographics for expected hospitalizations and deaths when the delta variant surge hits a state to help state hospital systems plan.


You'll need to account for vax distribution as well
by ndhouston  (2021-08-02 15:49:27)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

For example, Israel is continuing to struggle with delta. My guess is that the vaxxed/unvaxxed communities don't mix all that much due to religious differences, while in the NL and other parts of Europe (Portugal is showing a similar pattern) the headline vaxxed number is more realistic for the population as a whole.

My sense is that the US is more like Israel in that some of the unvaxxed communities are isolated enclaves by choice.


Where may one find U.K. hospitalization data over time? *
by ufl  (2021-08-02 15:11:33)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


. (link)
by Father Nieuwland  (2021-08-02 15:15:47)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


Thanks *
by ufl  (2021-08-02 15:18:59)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


Yeah it's all supposition right now
by OrangeJubilee  (2021-08-02 14:56:16)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

and there is also the question if the relationship of "cases" (as in positive test result) actually has the same relationship to actual infections in the community, as anecdotally (but many anecdotes) it seems people aren't getting covid tests for every little cough like we were back in the winter and spring.


Testing is way down
by mintirish  (2021-08-02 14:58:35)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

and people who are vaccinated aren't getting tested for every sniffle like you said.

So the positive number of tests is surely not catching all the cases.


Hospitalizations are a lagging indicator.
by ndroman21  (2021-08-02 14:03:12)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Trying to use them to trigger mitigation measures would be closing the door after the horse has left the barn.


As I said - but you can't use last year's case numbers
by mintirish  (2021-08-02 14:10:22)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

since the linkage between cases leading to hospitalizations has been dramatically changed.


Do we have data on Delta in a partially vax'd populace?
by ndroman21  (2021-08-02 14:29:47)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

I guess we can extrapolate from the UK, but I'm not sure what numbers you're asking them to use.


We used those numbers as well.
by ewillND  (2021-08-02 13:46:35)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

We tied closing schools and businesses to them.


Probably via a committee of public health experts
by vermin05  (2021-08-02 13:33:16)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

I’m sure there’s a good reason for these levels, and no they aren’t new and have been on the website for months.


They are not new
by mintirish  (2021-08-02 14:12:02)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

I would like to see the rationale behind them. I can't find it on the CDC's site.

The numbers should be updated to reflect the current situation with vaccines in play


Since the vast majority of cases are amongst the unvax'd....
by ndroman21  (2021-08-02 14:31:51)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

...I don't see how the data would change.


but we are talking about vaccinated people wearing masks
by mintirish  (2021-08-02 14:53:55)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

If you want to say that unvaccinated need to wear masks at those thresholds have at it, doesn't make sense for vaccinated folks.