Why is that?
by OITLinebacker (2019-07-22 11:49:38)

In reply to: I think a national approach is the wrong one *  posted by Cards86


Pretty hard to build a winning Baseball program with just Midwest guys. Or are you saying he should just recruit the South? ND does have some national appeal last I checked, so getting the best players that can come to ND should be the goal and beating all of the bushes should be part of that right?


Louisville has done exactly that
by Cards86  (2019-07-24 09:26:56)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

and that is build a program of almost entirely Midwest guys. I would assume that our recruiting budget is not unlimited. Battling UCLA, etc for the best players in California seems like a losing proposition. Will there be the rare stud in California and Florida and Texas and Georgia that wants to come North - no doubt. But I think signing the 217th best player in California is not as important as signing the very best players from the Midwest. Spend your time in Illinois, Indiana, Ohio, Michigan, Kentucky, Tennessee, etc.


Are we talking about different sorts of players here?
by OITLinebacker  (2019-07-24 10:18:55)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Louisville being a public school likely has some lower tuition rates for Kentucky and neighboring states, so it makes a lot of sense to go after the best they can get in the region as it means they can work with more meaningful half scholarships.

ND on the other hand can't give the players families anything close to the lower payment that Louisville and the local states schools. Let's also face the fact that ND's admissions standards also shrink the pool a bit as well.

Given that ND has to fight an uphill battle for money, weather, and admission standards, I still believe it makes sense to make sure a wide of net as possible is cast. That isn't to say that they shouldn't make efforts on local talent, but ND can't compete on local alone.


Let's put Louisville aside and look instead at Vandy
by ndzippy  (2019-07-24 12:33:57)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Which is very similar to ND in many regards (except for all of the winning).

40 players are listed on the roster found at the link below. Of those 40:

- 11 are from Tennessee (28%)
- 15 are from Tennessee or states that border Tennessee (38%)
- 18 are from TN, OH, MO, MI, and IL (45%) [Midwest States]
- 24 are from Midwest States + ND strongholds NY/NJ/MA (60%)
- 32 are from Midwest States + NY/NJ/MA + Florida (80%)

Notably:

- Just 2 players from California, plus 1 more from Washington
- Just 1 player from Texas

I think Vandy is proof positive that you can build a very strong program by focusing mainly on local talent.


Kentucky, Tennessee, and points further south BB is very
by OITLinebacker  (2019-07-24 14:32:03)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

different. Particularly youth baseball. So 40% or so I would call outside of the Midwest. Vandy also has an advantage of significantly better weather in the Spring. That shouldn't seriously impact recruit though.

I would also say that ND likely has a few more students from California and Texas than Vandy or at least % wise.

Again it is far easier to shop locally and make sure that local talent will need to fill a strong role, but I would look very poorly on a coach that said they weren't going to at least beat the bushes in other areas/states. ND baseball isn't always going to be able to go out and get the best recruits in any state they want, but they shouldn't let location of a recruit be a limiting factor. There is no reason to not look at kids from different regions. Hell it wouldn't hurt to work with the Football office and recruiting as there has been at least some history of football players playing baseball.


I'm not saying he should stay within 200 miles of campus
by ndzippy  (2019-07-24 20:24:58)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

But I also think ND has more of a right to win with talented players in the Midwest & Northeast (and, by extension, Florida) than it does in places like California & Texas.

You seem to think ND is capable of simultaneously going head-to-head with USC & UCLA in SoCal, Texas & A&M in Texas, and North Carolina and Vandy in the Southeast...all while fighting off programs like Michigan, Louisville, and Indiana (all currently in better shape than ND) for local talent. That's simply not possible.

Success doesn't usually come from casting the widest net possible. Rather, it tends to come from focus and execution...two things we haven't had in a very long time.


Just targeting Catholic School players in Tex and Cal
by OITLinebacker  (2019-07-25 14:55:14)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

and wouldn't Florida be *more* difficult than Texas and Cali given the florida schools plus the SEC hunting? California it's the Pac 12 true enough, but outside of that there isn't a major conference close to home there.

Texas and California shouldn't be written off lightly. Should Link be reviewing films on hundreds of potential recruits from Cali and Texas *over* watching midwest kids? Of course not. There should be schools, conferences, and kids in many states worth keeping an eye on.

I'm sure some smart data science types could take a look at general ND admissions over the last 10 years and look at the number of students that also came from powerhouse baseball high schools. That would be a good place to start looking to build relationships. After that, perhaps looking at the top high school programs regardless of state and looking at some top travel tournaments to get some idea of where the best fit players might come from.

I'm not writing off the local area, but expecting more than half of the recruits to come from within 500 miles of campus *and* have ND hope to make the CWS is wishful thinking at best. It means going up against big name teams and in state programs. It means selling ND with more disadvantages than any other coach at ND has to deal with.

It's going to mean striking out with fewer homers than 2018 Chris Davis. I figure that given the uphill task no stone should be left un-turned.


Someone can correct me
by HTownND  (2019-07-24 14:27:39)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

But doesn't the state of Tennessee have something that offsets the costs to attend college in the state, so while Vandy doesn't have in state tuition, the local kids, along with the partial scholarship, get another break on tuition for attending a local university?

I swear I read that somewhere.


Maybe. Often only applies to state schools -- not private
by btd  (2019-08-10 21:06:02)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

schools that are in the state.


Academic awards to out of state students can be very generou
by mrock90  (2019-07-25 07:39:33)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Looked into this extensively while my son was being recruited; I’d say the average student athlete for ND would likely qualify for 75% scholarship at State universities in KY and TN