Of course, one of the wins was a franchise landmark -- the 1974 AFC Championship to give the Steelers their first Super Bowl berth. But since that game, they're only 1-6 in Oakland, last winning in 1995, the year the Raiders returned from LA.

I'll go to look it up in a bit. But thought maybe you had it on hand when checking vs Raiders in Oakland.

I know they won in LA in the last game of the season in 1984. They needed a victory to make the playoffs over the Bengals, and they ended up beating the Broncos, then got obliterated by Marino and the Dolphins in the AFC title game. That was the year they provided the 1 loss to Montana and the 49ers.

Edit: Just checked on question: Raiders played as LA from 1982 season through 1994 season. Steelers 2-2 in LA versus the Raiders.


To note: footballdb.com is a rather nice site to search such things. profootballreference.com has been my go to for a while; they have a college football, college basketball, NBA, and MLB reference site too.

Good grief, I miss College Football Data Warehouse. That site was fantastic.

I specifically use footballdb.com for head-to-head history between two NFL teams. It reminded me that the Raiders didn't play in Pittsburgh for 20 years, from 1980 until 2000. The "Los Angeles Raiders" never once played in Pittsburgh. The teams played at Three Rivers 6 times from 1972 to 1980, including 2 playoff games. The Steelers won both playoff games, but the Raiders won 3 straight regular season games in Pittsburgh after losing the 1972 opener.

The scheduling formulas in place from 1978-1994 and 1995-2001 (very similar with some tweaks) created many oddities, including that 20-year gap in Raider visits to Pittsburgh, the Bears going to San Francisco far more often than the 49ers to Chicago (10-2 split in regular season games from 1975-2000), no regular season games at all between the Bears and Giants from 1977 to 1987 (and no Bears regular season games at the Giants from 1977 to 1995)---and weirdest of all, the Tampa Bay Buccaneers not playing a single game at Buffalo from their 1976 founding until 2009.

NFL Primetime about the Cowboys and the Raiders. He called it "the greatest rivalry ... that never was". Due to the scheduling formula in place at the time, those two iconic franchises rarely met back in the 70s and 80s.

In fact, the Cowboys and the Raiders were the final two of the 26 teams in the original post-merger NFL to play one another. Their first meeting was in the season finale in 1974, at the very end of the fifth post-merger season. There were only 8 other NFC-AFC matchups that had not yet occurred entering the 1974 season (7 if you exclude Dolphins-Redskins, who had met in SB VII but not in the regular season). (The others were Jets-Bears, Oilers-Vikings, Bills-Packers, Giants-Chiefs, Bengals-49ers, Rams-Patriots, and Eagles-Chargers.)

Of course, the Cowboys and Raiders were almost annually expected to meet in the Super Bowl, and came very close to doing so several times -- particularly after the 1967, 1970, 1975, 1977, and 1980 seasons, when one made the Super Bowl and the other lost the league/conference championship game. That doesn't even include 1976, when both teams were regarded as best in their respective conference, but Dallas's offense sagged when Roger Staubach broke his pinky against the Bears, and they lost the divisional playoff to the Rams. It also doesn't include 1973, when both lost conference championship games by identical 27-10 scores (Dallas to the favored Vikings, Oakland at the defending and repeat champion Dolphins).

In any event, the "dream matchup" never occurred in a Super Bowl. And it wasn't until 1983 that the Raiders first played a regular season game at Dallas, and the first of three Oakland at Dallas games was not until 1998 (the LA Raiders played there in 1983 and 1986).

A .650 winning percentage over 12 years doesn’t happen by accident n the NFL. Good Lord.

When he got fired. Sometimes it it time for a change. Seriously, his future HOF QB was medically cleared to go back in the game and Tomlin didnt do it.

But the Rooneys won't fire him this year. Next year is a different story.

My brother and I had this conversation earlier this year. Given the precedent with Cowher, Tomlin won't be fired outright; most likely the Rooneys will just let his contract expire in 2020.

Despite his record, there are several legitimate reasons for Steelers fans to be upset with Tomlin:

1. Penalties

The Steelers are consistently one of the most penalized teams in the league. Here are the Steelers' penalty yardage and league rank during Tomlin's tenure:

2018 64.4 28th
2017 54.2 9th
2016 63.2 26th
2015 58.2 19th
2014 55.8 15th
2013 42.3 4th
2012 58.6 24th
2011 53.8 22nd
2010 56.6 25th
2009 48.3 16th
2008 51.5 29th
2007 37.5 7th

2. The defense has backslid during his tenure.

When Tomlin took over in 2007, he was gifted with a defense that featured Pro Bowlers at all 3 levels, and would be key to their Super Bowl victory in 2009 (and re-appearance 2 years later)--Aaron Smith, Casey Hampton, Brett Keisel, James Harrison, Lamarr Woodley, James Farrior, Larry Foote, Troy Polamalu, Ike Taylor, Ryan Clark.

As these players aged and retired, they have been unable to restock (not coincidentally, Tomlin has a lone AFC Championship game appearance in the past 8 seasons after appearing in 2 in his first 4 years). The Steelers have expended a lot of draft capital on various defensive busts, projects, and reaches. They have drafted the following players in the first 3 rounds since 2008: Bruce Davis, Ziggy Hood, Keenan Lewis, Sean Spence, Jason Worilds, Cam Heyward, Curtis Brown, Jarvis Jones, Ryan Shazier, Stephon Tuitt, Bud Dupree, Senquez Golson, Artie Burns, Sean Davis, Javon Hargrave, TJ Watt, Cam Sutton, and Terrell Edmunds.

I'd say only 6 to 8 players (out of 18) have been worth the investment--Worilds, Heyward, Shazier, S. Davis, Hargrave, and Watt. Tuitt intermixes flashes of dominance with weeks of disappearing, and Sutton has shown flashes in limited minutes.

Beyond attrition due to injuries and early retirement (Worilds, Spence, Shazier), the Steelers have either over-drafted mediocre players (Hood, Jones, Dupree) or outright busts (B. Davis, Brown, Golson, Burns). I have a bad feeling Edmunds is going to fall into the latter category. Conventional wisdom usually holds that you can find starting caliber players in the first 3 rounds; defensively, Pittsburgh is under .500 in this regard.

The current defensive coordinator sucks. In what world is it a good idea to have ILBs consistently isolated on WRs, without adjusting?

3. An inability to beat the Patriots

Tomlin is 2-7 against the Patriots (1-7 when Brady plays). Maybe New England has a similar overall winning percentage since 2007, but that's probably inflated (no pun intended) by 6 wins/year against the Bills, Jets, and Dolphins. The only chance the Steelers have for a deep run in the playoffs is if the Ravens, Broncos, or Jets do the dirty work for them against New England.

4. Playing down to the competition

You can count on the Steelers to lose to one or more terrible opponents each year--especially as of late in Tomlin's tenure:

2018: Raiders, Browns (tie)
2017: Bears
2016: Dolphins
2015:
2014: Buccaneers, Browns, Jets
2013: Vikings, Raiders
2012: Raiders, Titans, Browns
2011:
2010:
2009: Chiefs, Raiders, Browns
2008:
2007: Jets

So while outsiders may look at Tomlin's career record and think we're crazy, it's a little different for those that watch the Steelers every week. Ultimately, I see a guy who's accomplished little of note despite having a loaded offense over the past decade. The 2nd half yesterday should give a preview of what the Steelers will look like once Ben moves on.

Three playoff wins since 2011. At a minimum, I'd tell him he's got to completely flush the defensive and special teams coaching staffs after the season.

I don't exactly know if Tomlin or Colbert has the final say-so on draft picks, but they've really whiffed, especially on defense. Taking Edmunds in the first round when virtually everyone else had him with a third or fourth round grade was a head-scratcher.

I'm a Steeler fan and it is obvious that the Steelers are great at losing to teams that have no business beating them. At some point Tomlin has to be held accountable for their bumbling, error-prone performances.

That's a good point about the Patriots. They have thoroughly dominated the Steelers over the years. The gap between Belichick and Tomlin is huge.

straight up. Mike Tomlin has 4 of the 11 losses.

You and your brother have hit on many of the same issues I've had with the team. The only issue you didn't hit on was his end of game time management which makes Kelly look like a savant. He is also 0 for 9 on his last 9 challenges and he isn't a guy that challenges calls that much. He just seems to lack a feel for end of game decisions and gets lost the moment.

I think your points 1 and 4 are directly related to his inability to get his team focused and leaves too much of the play "loose" atmosphere.

I think the drafting is part on him and part on Colbert. They have either drafted out right busts or average players with their 1st round pick from 2013-2016 (Jones, Shazier, Dupree and Burns). Dupree is okay but not a world beater by any stretch of the imagination. Shazier was a very good player and you can't account for his injury but he isn't there any more. The only thing you can say about Jones is that he will turn out to not be as big of a bust as Burns. You can't miss on players that are what should be the heart of your defense based on experience and talent.

They need to get away from the analytics of drafting athletic freaks and hoping to coach them up and instead find players. Edmunds was a reach, no doubt, my only hope (and it is small one) is that Steelers secondary guys take a year to learn the system. It shouldn't take that long to learn a defensive scheme.

BTW, just imagine how bad the team would be if they weren't hitting as well as they have on the offensive side of the ball. You have Brown (6th), Sanders(3rd), Bell (2nd), Bryant (4th), JJSS (2nd), Wallace (3rd), Gilbert (3rd), Foster (late rounder), Connor (3rd), Beacham (undrafted), AV (undrafted). If they got have the draft capital out of the offensive side of the ball they would be fine. Those guys have made up for a lot of mistakes on the defensive side.

I agree outsiders don't see the day to day issues, Steelers fans do. But, think about this Brady and Belichek have had the best run of football for the last 17 years and, this off-season you can see they are starting to tire of each other. I can't imagine this year helping that cause even at 9-4. It is just hard for you to hear the same stuff over and over again and not start to tune it out.

I wouldn't be surprised if you are right on the 2020

Try rooting for a team like the Bills for awhile.

(That being said, I fully acknowledge I’ve made some poor decisions in my life.)

I agree i have been spoiled with fairly consistent play from the organization, but much like we have seen out of past ND teams, the talent was there but the coaching never game them a chance.

Not one of those teams has a winning record. Their secondary hasn’t made an interception over the last 8 games.

Tomlinson seat has to be getting warm. I want them to lose out so we can clean house on the defensive side. Guys like Butler and Porter need to be shown the door.

Swept by the West...ouch