But I think that was in 1999. I don't recall any such discussions in 2003.
outside the Association of American Universities, for which membership requires some standards for research volume, quality, influence, etc. But membership ultimately is by vote of members. ND is not a member. I believe there is probably a push among certain faculty to become a member. Until Nebraska joined the Big Ten, all conference members were part of the AAU. Nebraska was a member until 2011, the same year they joined the Big Ten. Not sure which came first. So the Big Ten talks about how that's important. But it's not like that would've prevented ND from joining at any point.
There's a separate Big Ten Academic Alliance that also may provide resources, networking, collaboration opportunities to increase a school's research profile if it wants admission to the AAU. So ND faculty may value that for its own ends and for AAU consideration.
they had already been admitted to the AAU when Wisconsin initiated the process to kick them out of the organization.
There were are least three Big 10 members that voted against Nebraska in the process. I believe it was Wisconsin, Minnesota, and Michigan. Though I'm less certain on Michigan.
I think it was the BTAA that I remember hearing about and that there was a lot of chatter that the faculty felt it would be great for ND. And I think I recall Fr. Malloy saying that this (the BTAA and the faculty's view on it) would play a significant role in the university's decision about whether to join the Big 10. Obviously, it wasn't a big enough factor.
That said, it was publicly a factor in 2003, and yet I have not heard or read one word about the academic side of things in all that I've read or heard about ND potentially joining a conference. I'm just assuming that the Big 10 schools would prove to be a better academic resource than the SEC schools, and, I'd guess, the ACC.
Shouldn't this be a factor that ND considers in the overall mix?
with Auburn & faculty have a good number of academic alliances within the conferences. I was involved in honors programs & entrepreneurial competitions at Clemson/ACC & ND was very active in these activities as the faculty liked the ability to find similar research topics/partners among conference schools. Auburn has the same to similar programs within the SEC (startup competitions, research conferences, etc).
overall, the schools in the SEC match up academically with the schools in the Big Ten? It's probably just a midwest bias on my part, but I think of institutions (particularly at the graduate level) like Michigan (though I hate to say that), Wisconsin, and probably several others, as particularly outstanding academically. Your experience?
and it's not really close.
The bottom of the ACC, Big XII, Pac 12(10), and SEC are significantly weaker than the worst schools in the Big 10 academically.
Here’s a top-to-bottom for the ACC versus the B1G from its 2022 national university rankings. Multi-way ties are common in the ranking. Four-, six-and ten-way ties, for example. Notre Dame and Illinois are the only two sole holders of their ranking spots across the two conferences.
Duke and Northwestern are both 9th.
ND is 19th; Michigan is 23rd.
Virginia is 25th; Wisconsin is 42nd.
UNC is 28th; Illinois is 47th.
Wake is also 28th; tOSU is 49th.
BC is 36th; Purdue is also 49th.
Georgia Tech is 38th; Maryland is 59th.
FSU and Miami are tied for 55th; Penn St and Rutgers are tied for 63rd.
Syracuse and Pitt are tied for 59th; Indiana and Minnesota are tied for 68th.
Clemson and Va Tech are tied for 75th; Iowa and Michigan St are tied for 83rd.
NCSU is 79th; Nebraska is 136th.
And the 15th ACC school, Louisville, brings up the rear at 187th. But they do have superb athletic facilities.
So, net-net, US News calls the top school from each conference as equals, gives the ACC the nod for schools 2-14, and Louisville is an orphan in the comparison.
Most of these schools are not undergraduate first.
Look at research productivity, phds produced, disciplinary rankings, Times higher Ed rankings, Shanghai ranking or world universities, etc.
Seems like that's the logical place to compare the relative academic strength of the schools in one conference versus another.
If you don't like the US News poll, then, fine, cite another poll, ideally one that's a lot more fluent in the US landscape than some of the non-US polls are.
I think you posted that the B1G is second only to the Ivy "and it's not really close" [that the B1G is vastly ahead of its P5 brethren].
With a perception that the top 5-6 in the ACC are ranked higher in aggregate than the B1G equivalent, I looked up in greater detail. The ACC shows well. Is it better than the B1G? Maybe, maybe not .... but I think it's at least close. The ACC is certainly a lot closer to the B1G than the B1G is to the Ivy.
Further, I think the higher ranked schools among the ACC and the B1G are generally "undergrad first".
Maybe some of the big midwestern state schools in the B1G are PhD factories and/or research powerhouses. If those are the criteria to use, then bring the University Athletic Association into the comparison. That's the D3 conference that includes U Chicago, Wash U, Emory, NYU and a few other luminaries. I'd bet it blows the B1G's doors off.
I actually almost listed them as the 2nd best academic conference in the United States.
If we focus on undergraduate education only, I'd take the New England Small College Athletic Conference ahead of the Big 10 and ACC too.
But going down the line there as well, there are a fair number of spots, as a tuition-paying parent, where I would pick the ACC school over the NESCAC school.
For example, I would rather send a kid to Duke or ND over Amherst or Williams, as I simply believe the alumni networks are broader and the resourcing is clearly superior. (I have a Domer. It hasn’t crossed my mind that I’d rather have her at Amherst or Williams. And I’m also sending one to Northwestern — roughly equivalent to Duke — which she picked over Amherst among other excellent choices.)
Who’s third in the NESCAC? Bowdoin? UVa versus Bowdoin? Not sure. My sister went to UVa. She definitely would have picked it over Bowdoin. However, I have no doubt there are plenty who would rather be Polar Bears.
Who’s fourth, fifth and sixth? Middlebury, Tufts and Wesleyan in an order that could be debated? I would rather send a kid to Wake — and I actually have a Deac — than any of those three. UNC versus those three? BC versus those three? We could debate.
Who’s seventh in the NESCAC? Colby? Which school has greater prestige: Georgia Tech or Colby? Maybe it depends on course of study. But it’s not obvious that Colby is superior.
Who’s bringing up the rear in the NESCAC? I’m not sure the pecking order among Bates, Conn College, Hamilton and Trinity. Surely one can get a fantastic education at any of the four. And I suppose they do sound fancier in the aggregate than FSU, Miami, Pitt and Syracuse. Going down the pecking order, this seems to be the area where the NESCAC could most strongly claim superiority.
I think that's one of the things that makes ND great and special. Strong liberal arts taught by actual faculty members, not graduate students or adjuncts.
There are few other large research universities that have aligned their resources so strongly in favor of undergraduates instead of graduate/professional study.
I think students get a better education at Amherst and Williams than they would at Duke or Northwestern if one is looking for liberal arts. But yes, Duke and ND both have superior alumni networks.
Bowdoin's alumni network is fantastic and punches way ahead of schools much larger. But you really have to be immune to the cold up there.
NESACs biggest problem is that the northeast is in a state of population decline and because of what they are, don't necessarily have the scale that a national university does.
Probably under-weighted by most applicants.
Nebraska is not in the AAU
Committee on Institutional Cooperation
University of Chicago left the CIC the same day the CIC was rebranded as the BTAA.
One reason there hasn't been much faculty discussion this time is that the USC/UCLA announcement happened just two months ago during the summer when most faculty are either busy with research or away from campus.