ND schedule is a ridiculous embarrassment

It won't play as tough as it looks on paper. *

We play USC twice? *

If we're good enough to win a NC, what's the problem?

I like having a tough schedule. If we were better, it wouldn't look so tough.

This subject line is total nonsense

I'm not talking about whether ND's strength of schedule is as tough as you claim, or whether that would be wise or not. I happen to believe ND always should play one of the nation's very strongest schedules, and I reject the notion that ND should try to "schedule" its way to a playoff. Others disagree. That's not my point here, however.

What's absurd is to call a tough schedule "a ridiculous embarrassment." I don't even understand that choice of words in this context. If anything, a tough schedule would be the opposite of "a ridiculous embarrassment."

1977...ND beat #1 Texas, #8 Pitt, #13 USC...

...and #19 Clemson. 1988...ND beat #2 Miami, #4 Michigan, #5 West Virginia and #7 USC. 1989 when ND finished #2 they beat #1 Colorado, #7 Michigan, #8 USC, #15 Penn State, #16 Michigan State, #17 Pitt and #18 Virginia.

The best though was Leahy's 1943 national championship team. They only beat #2 Iowa Pre-Flight (a WWII semi-pro outfit), #3 Michigan, #4 Navy, #9 Northwestern, #11 Army and #13 Georgia Tech.

Thanks to Lou Somogyi of Blue & Gold Illustrated for the above.

The schedule is fine. The HC and AD however... *

are small timey and unremarkable, respectively. *

and Navy cut blocks! And they have unlimited scholarships! *

What though the odds be great or small

Old Notre Dame will win over all...I'd like to believe we still aspire to this ideal I grew up with...Maybe I'm just old

Clemson have one of the most difficult schedules

in 2017 and yet they managed just fine.

Would of *

This post is bad and you should feel bad. *

Holtz said the schedule isn’t hard with a good team.

Or something similar. The problem with the schedule is the head coach. He had 2 All-American OL last year and still lost 3 games.

All tests are easy if you know the answers.

Said my seventh-grade teacher.

That's half the NCAA Braket there.

Ridiculous only in that it's difficult. Go 12-0 (we won't maybe 9-3) and you are unarguably in the CFP. Lose one of those big 4 close, and you're likely still in.

We need to set up Hawaii for the first week in Dec for a "show me" on CC day.

The body of this post is the exact opposite

of what I was expecting. You really think the schedule is too difficult? Really?

Here's what I think...if we want to win a national championship, maybe we should be able to beat some good teams. You know, like the last time we won.

You're right

In 2017 we played 4 good teams in the regular season: UGA, USC, Miami, Stanford and only won 1. If we had scheduled a few more cupcakes, there is no doubt we'd have won the national championship last year.

Another "they must've sucked if they lost to us" post.

This is veering slightly off-topic, but I don't think you can include Stanford as a "good" opponent without including Michigan St.

Here are the Final AP rankings of ND's regular season opponents:

#2 Georgia (loss)
#12 USC (win)
#13 Miami (loss)
#15 Mich St (win)
#20 Stanford (loss)
#23 NC St (win)

And in the bowl game they played #18 LSU (win).

That said, I have no disagreement with your overall point that the original post was nonsensical.

10-2 would've made the playoffs this year

But Kelly isn't good enough to go 10-2 with eligible players, is he?

We've got to find a way to get stanford off the schedule

we can't compete

Lets look at the soft underbelly

Ball State
Vandy
Wake
Cuse
Northwestern
Navy
Pitt

Next year's schedule blows

I think our schedule is just fine

In no way am I agreeing with the original post here saying the schedule is too tough. But I don't think it's fair to say it sucks either (that's probably a more ludicrous statement than saying it's too hard). According to ESPN's way too early 25 (for whatever that is worth), we have the #11, 12, 15, 17, and 18 teams on the schedule, two of which are on the road (with V Tech being a very tough place to play at). I assume all 5 of those teams will be preseason ranked. Sure, there are some other easier games on the schedule, but that should be expected. Remember, Bama gets Arkansas State, Louisiana-Lafayette, and The Citadel! And I'm sure at least 1 or 2 of those SEC games will turn out to be garbage teams, too (like 2017 SEC winless Tennessee?). Plus, back to our schedule ... Northwestern did win 10 games and finished ranked this year.

Overall, I think we have a just fine schedule next year. I can't see how anyone can complain about it on either side.

Fair but

I was also viewing it from a home slate standpoint, which I didn’t state

Michigan
Ball State
Vandy
Stanford
Pitt
FSU

There are two must go to games on there and one likely good game. That’s it.

Also, I used to watch every game no matter what. You couldn’t pay me to watch ND/Ball State. I won’t watch a second live or in highlights. I cannot think of an ND game in my lifetime I didn’t give one iota of a fuck about, but here we are with Ball State (and maybe that’s part to do with the “it’s Ball State” ads that were prevalent in our time).

The home slate isn't bad...

2 definite Tier 1 games in Michigan and FSU. Stanford is another great one. Pitt is a decent home game, but not great. One complete cream puff in Ball(s) State. An Vandy is nothing special. But everyone has at least 1 or 2 creampuffs on their home slate...usually more. OSU has Rutgers, Tulane, and Indiana (Michigan and Nebraska are the big home games). Michigan has SMU, W Michigan, and Indiana (Penn St, Nebraska, and Wisconsin are their decent home ones). Bama has Arkansas St, UL Lafayette, and the Citadel at home (A&M, Auburn, and LSU are the big home ones). Auburn has Alabama State, Southern Miss, and Liberty (LSU and A&M as good home ones). FSU has Samford and N Illinois. Florida has Charleston Southern and Idaho. Wisconsin has W Kentucky and New Mexico. Etc, etc.

I won't get excited for Ball State either, but games like that are a necessity. You need some layup home games to fill out the schedule (especially with teams moving to 9 conference games, which makes it harder to schedule). I think we have enough meat on the rest of the home slate to not be all that upset.

I guess it depends

On what you are comparing it to.

everyone else, yeah, it's fine.

What I grew up with and had grown accustomed to, it sucks.

This is my other beef with the ACC deal. I can't muster much "give a shit about Pitt and Cuse (who we've played many times, well before the ACC deal). Like I said, Ball State may be the lowest "give a shit" game since I started following ND games 34 some odd years ago. Pitt is pretty close. I just can't muster much give a shit about watching us play Pitt again. Michigan is great. FSU is great. Stanford and USC are Stanford and USC (who rotate). That's 3 home games worth a damn this year in Michigan, FSU and Stanford. The rest, I really don't give a shit about. I used to care about all of the home games. That's just not the case anymore.

But I do agree, we're just like everyone else (and not elite) when it comes to scheduling.

I understand your point...

...but I think it's been like this for a while now.

In 1988, we played Michigan and Penn State as good games (even though PSU wound up being pretty disappointing that year). But we also had Purdue (which to me has always been a boring game and fake rivalry), Stanford (who was crappy back then), and then Ball State-ish Rice and Air Force games. I think 2018 is more exciting than that.

1998 had Michigan, Purdue, and Stanford again (Purdue was better, but Stanford still stunk), and then a top game in LSU (who also wound up being crappy that year), and awful Baylor (remember, Baylor was horrible back then) and Army games. 2018 is probably more exciting than that as well.

Anyway, I think there's been home games people don't care about for 30+ years now.

Agreed. We'll be able to figure out if ND is good or not. *

Can't wait to see the tiered pricing on that schedule. *

You're wrong about 2018

1) Not sure why you listed USC twice. Only four "tough" games not five

2) Not sure how tough all four games will actually be. USC ended ranked 12th and Stanford 20th in 2017. FSU (New Coach for 2018) and Michigan (New QB for 2018) unranked in 2017.

3) ND could reasonably expect to go 3-1 against toughest opponents given that three out of four are home games and that schedule lays out fairly favorable other than maybe USC on the road after FSU two weeks before and an East Coast road trip the week before.

Sept. 1 MICHIGAN 7:30 p.m. NBC
Sept. 8 BALL STATE 3:30 p.m. NBC
Sept. 15 VANDERBILT 2:30 p.m. NBC
Sept. 22 at Wake Forest TBA TBA
Sept. 29 STANFORD 7:30 p.m. NBC
Oct. 6 at Virginia Tech TBA TBA
Oct. 13 PITT 2:30 p.m. NBC
Oct. 20 Bye Week
Oct. 27 vs. Navy (San Diego) TBA TBA
Nov. 3 at Northwestern TBA TBA
Nov. 10 FLORIDA STATE 7:30 p.m. NBC
Nov. 17 vs. Syracuse (Yankee Stadium) 2:30 p.m. NBC
Nov. 24 at USC TBA TBA

You need to be NC caliber before you can claim to be robbed.

For example, the 1993 ND team actually played a really weak schedule outside of the FSU game, which itself had the benefit of being at home. But we don't need to see a SOS ranking to know that the '93 team was championship caliber.

If they only have a 50% chance against those 4 other non-title contenders that you listed, then it sounds like ND isn't a legit title contender either. The difference between ND and Bama/OSU isn't the schedule strength, it's the fact that those aren't 50% chance games for them. They're more like 80% games.

Let’s replace those games with Tulsa, Wake Forest, Duke

Northwestern, and Navy. Oh wait! Brian Kelly sucks. That is all

I think we can all agree

we scored more than 3 points against NCSt. last season.

Found the Russian bot. *

you should find another rooting interest then.

Its really about par for our history.

Bama had FSU, Ole Miss, TAMU, LSU and Auburn last year

Their schedule ended up being easier than it appears on paper because several of those teams had down years, but it's not as if it was an easy road when assembled.

Team A - Michigan, FSU, USC, Stanford

Team B - FSU, Ole Miss, TAMU, LSU and Auburn

And your takeaway here is "Team A = OMG impossible!!!!!1!!" and "Team B = smart national championship-winning scheduling!"?

and throw in Georgia and Clemson, just for fun *

Strive for brevity. "with this schedule" is superfluous. *

Our players must be literally shaking *

Why should you be national champ if you can't win 3 of 4?

If you win 3 out of 4 of those games and the rest, that you ought to win, you're in the playoffs. If you lose two of those games, why should you have a chance to be the national champ?

Totally agree with this *

So you want the 2019 cream puff schedule instead?

Sept. 14 New Mexico
Sept. 28 Virginia
Oct. 5 Bowling Green
Nov. 9 at Duke
Nov. 16 Navy
Nov. 23 Boston College

Yes, five of those six yummy match-ups are home games. That will be a special November.

This is a slanted view of the 2019 schedule

We play Louisville, Georgia, USC, Michigan, VT, and Stanford.

It's an elite top-end schedule with a very soft bottom half. It's not an easy schedule.

I love that you include Louisville and VT

As difficult.

It's hilarious and sad.

VT has been a top 20 program for 20+ years.

They will be a very challenging game this year.

That doesn't make them elite

And doesn't make playing them elite, or our schedule elite.

Who has had a better 20 years, VaTech or LSU?

PS - we're talking about 2019, not 2018

LSU, but it's been closer than you think.

Over the last 20 years, LSU has been 184-71, with 1.5 National Championships, 6 top 10 finishes, and 15 ranked finishes overall.

V Tech has been 180-69, with 0 NCs (obviously the big differentiator here), 6 top 10 finishes, and 15 ranked finishes overall.

V Tech really fell during Beamer's last 4 seasons, with them all being unrankes 7-6-ish finishes. I think they're back on track now, as they were solid - and ranked - under their new coach last year. And I think they'll be preseason ranked right around LSU (probably a bit higher) this year.

Players currently in the NFL: LSU 55, VT 16

The Tigahs have access to a far better league, and they normally have far better talent than just about any program in the nation.

Click here for link at http://www.espn.com/nfl/college/_/letter/l

Would you be OK with Cal on the schedule then?

And their 36 NFL players?

Actually I'm ok with VT -

I think that they are a top-25 program and including them on the schedule makes the ND schedule stronger. My main reaction was to the comparison with LSU. In comparison to Virginia Tech, LSU regularly plays in a much tougher league against a much tougher schedule, and they have much better players at almost every position on the field.

Funny thing about the "#of players in the pros" stat: LSU seems to have a lead on this against everyone. Only Florida and Miami are close. Alabama, Ohio State, Florida State and USC have 45 or 50 players currently active. ND has around 40. And FWIW, Cal isn't the only Pac-12 team with unusually high number of pro players. Stanford, Oregon, and UCLA have similar numbers, each around 35.

I also think Va Tech is more likely to finished ranked. *

Sure

But which game would you be excited about, LSU or VaTech?

(and as an ND fan, right now, I'd say VaTech because we've played LSU a few times recently)

But if we hadn't played either in the past 20 years and you asked me who would be a more "elite" opponent or better opponent, I'd say LSU.

True

I agree....normally I'd say LSU, but since we've oddly played them so much, I'd now say V Tech for ND.

I'm just saying that I think V Tech is an exciting game as well. Plus, I've heard that's a great place to go to a game at.

to put a finer point of the inanity of your post

Final rankings the past 8 seasons (ie since 2010)

Louisville
2010 - UR
2011 - UR
2012 - 13
2013 - 15
2014 - 24
2015 - UR
2016 - 21
2017 - UR

VaTech
2010 - 15
2011 - 17
2012 - 13
2013 - UR
2014 - UR
2015 - UR
2016 - UR
2017 - 16

Your post was so sad and pathetic, I don't know what to say. But at this point, nothing surprises me when it comes to ND football and our fans.

PS - Michigan sucks (yes in all things, but they actually haven't been very good in a while, they certainly aren't elite).

So odds are one of them will be ranked.

The broader point stands. That’s likely 4-5 ranked opponents at the top end between those six programs. Also Michigan will have very talented upper classmen then. I expect Michigan to be a consistent 2 loss program by 2019.

Probably not

Louisville’s ranking were tied to a couple of their best players ever (and even that didn’t help this year).

Va Tech who knows

I included the top half of the schedule.

Maybe want to edit your post?

Nope

“It's an elite top-end schedule with a very soft bottom half”

It’s not an elite top end schedule. Not even close.

2 likely great teams (and I’m not ready to put USC in this bucket just yet but will for the sake of argument) does not make an elite top end schedule.

VaTech and Louisville are pedestrian and don’t make our top end elite in any way shape or form.

Michigan is good. Stanford will be good.

That’s not an elite top end, it just isn’t.

Show your work. Compare it to other teams.

Our fifth-best opponent has been ranked more times than not the past decade. How many other teams have a schedule like that?

Well, because I can

Here's some more easy ones (preseason ranking in parenthesis).

Auburn
Washington (12)
Miss St (17)
Georgia (4)
Alabama (1)
LSU (19)

USC
Stanford (13)
Washington (12)
Texas (18)
Oregon (22)
ND (14)

I can keep going if you'd like, but I think it's clear, all of the "good" college football teams play that many top end games.

Our schedule is on par with other good teams in CFB, certainly not "elite" (and I think that is the word that set all of this off, elite means at the top, we aren't).

You shifted the goalposts. Washington and Mississippi

State don't meet the criteria you laid out for Louisville and Virginia Tech.

Not really

I was pointing out again, that using your standards, our schedule still isn't "elite". I didn't change my standards, so I'll sum it up.

Under my standards, which are admittedly higher than yours, our schedule is not elite
Under your standards, which are sort of sad and embarrassing, even then, our schedule is not elite.

I didn't move the goal posts, I basically used your diminished expectations to show, a second time, our schedule is pretty fucking far from elite.

But yeah, our schedule is an elite ball buster with L'Ville and Va Tech. Internet high five. You can have the last word here, because, I just don't give a fuck trying to polish the turd that is our scheduling, you seem to think it's super duper hard/awesome. Good for you. Enjoy Ball State. Last word is yours.

Sure

Texas A&M top 5 opponents

Clemson
Auburn
LSU
Mississippi State
Alabama

They play the preseason 1 and 2 teams (Bama and Clemson).

Throw in Auburn, and that's 3 top 10 preseason teams.

Miss St is listed preseason at 17.

So that's 4 top 20 teams, and their 5th best team, LSU, is better than Va Tech recently and historically (and also ranked in the top 20)

You don't hear anyone talking about how elite A&Ms schedule is. You don't hear folks in Texas bitching and moaning about how hard it is. It's their schedule.

That was easy and took 5 seconds. It's without question much better at the top than ours, it's not even close.

Holy sh**! How did I miss this? saucy is the worst

AD in ND history and that is a real low bar. Please, tell me you made this up.

And we have lost to 2 of those teams in the last two years.

We've played four of the six in our history and have lost to Navy, Duke and BC (all of which at home at some point too). We lost to Navy and Duke in 2016 and we needed a long bomb touchdown in the last minute of the game to beat Virginia in 2015.

So anyone looking at that schedule as 6 easy wins? Let me introduce you to Brian Kelly.

Of which we will go 4-2 *

Little Sisters of The Poor just won’t take Jack’s call

So until we get Mother Superior on the phone to schedule some games against them ND is stuck with the likes of Michigan and USC

ccb, you ignorant slut

What type of 2017 schedule did "Nick" enjoy while winning yet another NC?

#3 FSU
#10 Auburn
#4 Clemson
#18 LSU
#19 Mississippi State
#1 Georgia

For the "ridiculous" schedule you are afraid of, only USC and Fla State were ranked in the top 20. Shame on you. Go away and never return.

I completely agree

that this is among the most inane posts ever to defile this website.

Above average

In embarrassing the university:
Vacated wins
Assault on the side lines
Interviewing during the most important game in the last 25 years
Player arrests
Student manager deaths

And don’t give the crap that he says he has no control over these things- he’s paid a ton of money to manage this. Recognize that he is a poor coach who can’t lead.

This has been a long off-season. *

Sagarin rated the 2016 schedule 38th hardest in the nation.

Somehow we didn't win the national championship.

Well, in fairness, we have a significant handicap

our coach is an idiot.

That should be this year's "the shirt". Years ago

the Yankees held a kangaroo court to figure out who was the dumbest guy on the team. It came down to Lou Pinella and Mickey Rivers. Pinella avoided the title by saying that, "Rivers is so dumb he can't spell IQ." Then everyone got more drunk....
I think polian and kelly should square off.
PS Opposing teams scouting NDs special teams has to look like pledge night at Delta House...

Yeah, I remember those soft schedules Holtz had

in late 1980s (rolls eyes).

Alabama plays historically tough schools like Tennessee,

Texas A/M, Florida State (last year), Miss State, LSU, and Auburn (just to name a few).

Your argument is bullshit.

Not sure I’d call Miss State historically tough.

Agree with the rest though.

Alabama has done a good job of scheduling

at least one top OOC opponent each year to go with their SEC games.

But I will admit that they are smart about how they put a given year's schedule together in terms of tough OOC game at a neutral site as a season opener and then having off weeks and easy opponents before tough SEC games.

Re: Off weeks

I think the SEC schedules when the byes will be. Alabama and LSU were both off the week before their meeting last year and I don't think that's been unusual this decade.

It is never embarrassing to play tough opponents

It is embarrassing to play a soft schedule. I will never be embarrassed to play the great teams. I will be a bit ashamed when we line up against Ball State.

The words to the song are "win over all." That is what we aspire to do.

BK wins 58% of his games at ND and is a mediocrity. *

This post is a ridiculous embarrassment.

ND should play a schedule littered with tier 1 teams each year. Since we (thankfully) don't play a conference championship game each year, we need as many of these tier 1 wins as possible to be considered for the playoffs. The key isn’t dumbing our schedule down, but instead hiring competent ADs and coaches that can understand this and successfully navigate the team through such schedules. Unfortunately, both of these current positions are filled by individuals who have proved themselves lacking.

Are you serious?

Are you really scared of playing 4 Tier 1 games? And those 4 teams aren't dominant. Michigan is potentially better than us but the Harbaugh coaching isn't as great as football fans expected and that is a winnable game. FSU has a new coach and was barely .500 last year. Stanford is an 8-4 or 9-3 caliber team. USC should be tough. What is there to fear here?

I truly thought when I opened your thread that I would read about being embarrassed that we are playing Ball State and Syracuse and maybe gripe that Vandy is SEC but not a top SEC team.

But if ND fans are scared of this schedule, then I will never drink again at ND Stadium because clearly there is something in the fountain sodas that is making our fans a ridiculous embarrassment to our tradition, our legacy, and our student athletes.

you're a wizard *

We play USC twice? That's innovation!

Assuming you meant MSU, though, OSU just played that scheduled last year.

It played UM, MSU, OU, Penn State, Wisconsin. That was a more difficult schedule than ours this year. And it went 4-1 against them. It missed the playoffs because it was blasted by Iowa.

In 2015, Bama played Wisconsin, Ole Miss, Georgia, A&M, LSU, Miss. St., Florida. All were ranked when they played. Five finished the season ranked. The other two had 2017 Michigan-esque seasons. Three finished with 10 wins. And that doesn't count Auburn, whose 7-6 record was better than FSU's last year.

If playing teams that last year finished unranked, unranked, 15th, 20th, and 12th strikes fear in your heart, then you should see a doctor.

You could look at it another way though.

Maybe tOSU didn't miss the playoffs because of the Iowa blasting, but because they scheduled OU instead of Kent State. I know we'll never know for certain, but I suspect they would have been in with only the loss to Iowa. Just a thought.

I guess this thread wasn't started as a joke

"unranked, unranked, 15th, 20th, and 12th"

No chance to compete against the likes of that.

If the team has about a 50% chance of winning each of those games, as the original posted suggested, why would such deserve a shot at the national championship? Seems they would be more like a 20th ranked team.

Michigan St was 15th but Irish play unranked Michigan in '18 *

My mistake. Let's swap Va. Tech. with MSU.

So instead of playing last year's 15th ranked team, we play the 25th ranked team. Unranked, unranked, 25th, 20th, 12th. Murderer's row.

This is the perfect example of why you need to schedule 3-4 real tier 1 schools and some high tier 2 schools. You never know who will have a down year or face a coaching transition. You still have Stanford riding an abnormal high that will not likely continue through another coaching transition and FSU on a downswing.