Except that if we get a bunch of guys in 50-100, then you ask how many top 50. You obviously have internet access so you can look it up.
I don't like Kelly. His coaching and recruiting are below expectations. However, this isn't his worst class since 2012.
Instead of dicking around back and forth, let's just pick a measure and go with it.
Top 300 count?
All of those can and will say different things. I don't think any of them, individually, is conclusive.
As for Cross' point, given the holes on offense (and the composite ranking, and number of 5 stars) of this class, it's not a completely baseless claim.
the goal should be having 4* or better starting at every position with the occasional exception like Julian Love. Ideally, we have a 5* at every level of the defense. Everyone who's followed recruiting knows that what's consistently missing are elite WR, RB and defensive recruits. However, there are sixteen 4* players which means 16 guys with that should be able to contribute and have substantial pro potential. It's an mediocre class. Not great. Not disastrous.
" It's an mediocre class. Not great. Not disastrous."
Is that contrary to saying it's our lowest ranked class since 2012?
That doesn't mean it's a disaster, it's just the lowest ranked, using one of the metrics.
No kidding... during the late 80s/early 90s - we would get 4 or so on the first team (offense and defense combined) and another 4-5 on the second team.
That would be around 8 or so.
No other college would get more than 2-3.
Especially receivers and running backs. Not to mention defensive ends and tackles.
You are such a pathetic, besotten homer.
I realize that you need to troll the board to boost traffic, but its becoming painfully redundant. The original post indicated that this may be one of Kelly's worst classes. My response simply noted that it probably wasn't. That doesn't make me a homer, Kelly-lover or an enabler. Bruno nailed it. This is a 10-2 level class.
If you find the posts "tired" it's because the circumstances haven't changed, as our offensive performance in the bowl game, and the treadmarks on our defense's jerseys; should have told you.
Which class since 2012 was worse
Year 247Sports Pts. Rivals Pts. Rivals Star Avg.
2013 284.77 2893 3.92
2014 260.44 2211 3.52
2015 267.79 2423 3.54
2016 249.43 2289 3.57
2017 251.32 2144 3.33
2018 268.86 2380 3.44
2019 258.56 2274 3.55
I don't like Kelly. I don't want Kelly. 2012 and 2018 are his peak. We should've canned him in 2016 or long before. But if more of the same means that we string together several consecutive 10+ win seasons so the job is as attractive as possible when it open up, I'm for it and I will enjoy wins over Michigan and SC along the way.
How many programs are currently better positioned than ND?
Bama, Clemson, Ohio State, UGA, OU. That's about it.
It’s also a class that won’t likely change ND’s fortunes in such a game.
There is a gap that ND needs to close with the top 5 programs (Bama, OSU, Clemson, UGA, OU) which will likely require a 3-4 years of sustained success (stringing together 10-12 win seasons) to boost recruiting and/or a new head coach. Oregon (2008-14) and Clemson (2011-18) and the type of stretches that come to mind.
There is no: Tee Higgins, Amari Rogers, Justin Ross, Trevor Lawrence, Travis Etienne, Clelin Ferrell, Christian Wilkins, Austin Bryant, or Dexter Lawrence's in this class. No Tua Tagovailoa, Jerry Juedy, or Najee Harris.
There are NO skill difference makers on Offense or the D-line.
There's not even a Dexter Williams.
It's a good class; but a 10-2 class. I'm not even sure it's a playoff class.
He simply gets outworked by other schools.
Nothing against the kids we brought in. K. Williams may turn out to be a nice player.
The issue remains that he continues to have talent gaps between classes at various positions. You cannot do that. Creating tough practices through competition is crucial to your depth chart.
The gap was at receiver
Or, the importance of bringing in elite players every cycle to keep the gap small between starter and 2 deep.
Dexter was great last year. I wouldn't disagree with your opinion.
Very good in senior bowl practice as well.
As might KAR. But I agree lacking difference makers.That’s two years in a row with misses at RB.
Clemson's class has 1 five star recruit to ND's 0 this year. ND has more 4 stars and Clemson has a boatload of 3 stars, with the numbers bringing their class higher.
Their recruiting has been around this level during their ascent to the pinnacle of college football.
I think the larger difference starts after the kids are on campus.
I don't think ND's recruiting is very good but not elite. I think their offensive coaching is well south of elite.
They're capable of making a run if everything falls into place: low injury rate, favorable schedule, USC & Stanford having down years, good luck in a close game or two. I don't think they can beat a good team that sees them coming.
Michigan in 2018 & USC in 2017 are the 2 most recent examples.
I would change that to say "I don't think they can beat teams coached by Dabo/Saban/Urban when they see them coming."
USC is coached by an idiot.
They really haven't had recruiting like Alabama or OSU. Their five year recruiting composite is right with us, actually. The difference is that each year they get 1-2 guys, typically in the front seven, who are truly elite. The difference is only a few players, but 3-5 truly elite players means everything when the other 80 or so are equal.
Plus Dabo is just a better coach than BK ever will be.
Who lowered the bar?
Looking briefly at recruiting rankings, the class of 2013 was the last time we had multiple top 50 players.
Say what you will about Weis, he didn’t aim for the middle.
The OL quartet is highly regarded.
stars with 3 stars as backups. I don't agree with them, but it is indeed their strategy the past 3 or so years:
1) Overtly avoid Florida - Georgia instead
2) Get 2 deep across the board with 4 star players
3) Fill gaps with 3 stars
4) Go after few long hanging fruit 5 stars: OL primarily and then Hayes type guys that were injured and considered damaged goods by many even though rated as a 5 star
Per Polian, they will attempt to go after higher ranked players in the 2020 class because they believe they have enough 4 star depth now that they can afford to swing and miss.
And even if they could, they’ll never come to a place like south bend when the alternative is to play for home state U.
and having sex with their girlfriends during class. They get decent grades at school just because the overworked teachers are just happy that they aren't too disruptive in class.
very close to getting to the top the expectation would be that there would be an almost maniacal push in every part of the program to break through. At least that would be the expectation of someone who is worthy of the position. It doesn't appear we've seen that type of effort in recruiting and I imagine as we start gearing up for next season we'll be hearing a lot about being consistent and maintaining what has been built over the past two seasons. He may pay lip service and say we need to take the next step but that's all it will be, he let his true self show in the lead up to '17 when he mentioned that he was surprised his job status was even being discussed after the '16 disaster.
All five would play in the NFL for a combined 36 seasons. One would make the Hall of Fame and win a Super Bowl, so Jerome Bettis went first. What if Bettis, offensive lineman Tim Ruddy, linebacker Oliver Gibson, tight end Oscar McBride and safety John Covington joined forces? After a night out around South Bend, watching Chris Zorich lead a pack of nearly three dozen players from establishment to establishment, what if these five prospects — three were USA Today All-Americans and Gibson was the national defensive player of the year — came together?
“If we came here, we could run college football,” Gibson said. “It was like Voltron coming together with all these superpowers.”
Early signing really pushes it back a year.
and that it is just too hard to recruit to Notre Dame,
Notre Dame under Weis out recruited Alabama three years in a row until Saban became the Tide's coach
...to Alabama today? Do you honestly think that’s a valid comparison?
There are a fair number of people who are happy with a 10-15 recruiting class because they believe that Notre Dame can never recruit like an Alabama because the Irish play in South Bend and make their students go to class, etc.
My point is that Alabama is currently dominating recruiting not because they are Alabama but because Saban is their coach. Just 13-15 years ago, Notre Dame out recruited Alabama three years in a row. Has the college landscape really changed that much since then?
People used to say that no one could out recruit Southern Cal when Pete Carroll was there. This year, they finished behind Notre Dame.
Kelly has averaged a 11.7 recruiting ranking in his non-transition years. I firmly believe that Notre Dame could consistently have recruiting classes in the 5th to 10th range with a coach who worked harder at recruiting. Note: Weis averaged a 7th ranked class.
It looks like they finished 10, 9, 10 despite signing the most commits of all the top schools.
There aren’t any stories about Dabo being a so-so recruiter. Maybe his recruiting is considered top heavy but he just put together arguably the most impressive postseason performance in college football history. And all the previous years he was #2 in coaching to Sabans #1.
How the hell is their class this low?
They've never really signed an elite class. Although they've had a couple of small classes that had outstanding average star rankings. (Maybe they could've taken on more four stars if they had room, but I don't know enough about the roster.) So you'd think that they'd be able to follow that up. There seems to be enough going for the school that it's about time they sign an elite class.
Some might contend that the super DL that they have is the key to their success.
Most recruits signed in December before Clemson’s rampage through the CFP field.
It should’ve had the opposite effect for ND, though (although it can be argued the full impact of our playoff run won’t be seen until next year’s recruiting class).
last two seasons cumulatively.
Take Michigan and USC, they were both top 5 more than once in the past four years yet ND has mostly kicked the collective shit out of them.
Even though the evidence suggested otherwise. Now it's official.
This guy min efforts everything he does.
Between him and the top guys. He doesn’t kill himself recruiting. He is basically lazy.
"the coldest seat in America".
Setting luck aside, why should we believe we'll take the next step at any point in this regime?