Ian Book is a great kid
by ACross (2019-04-15 12:20:48)
Edited on 2019-04-15 15:06:07

And he's a perfect fit for Kelly's Yugo offense. He's smart, understands the need to make quick reads, and has the arm to throw the ball where Kelly and Chipper like to throw it - generally, on the perimeter and on the sidelines. Often, back shoulder throws. Most often, but not always, to stationary players. The offense really shines like a turd in the red zone where a couple things happen. First, defenses know what Kelly likes to do so it really comes down to our player beating their player in a jump ball, which sometimes works.

Sure, Book has limitations. Don't we all. But he plays within them, generally. He may bail out of plays too often, and take the easy checkdown. More of a Lynn Dickey than a Brett Favre.

And he has good wheels and is a fiery competitor.

I tend to think the governor on the offense is not his arm strength but instead the shitastic system itself.

But the notion that he is Notre Dame's best ever is unfair to Book. He doesn't need to be spoken of in that way. I'm happy to let Book be Book and give him credit for making lemonade out of lemons and for not letting Kelly ruin his mojo.


These cross-site arguments are annoying and tiresome
by El Kabong  (2019-04-15 18:08:03)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

If someone on TPG said something with which you disagree, engage them there.

I don't have time to figure out what message is being sent to whom. I've got a life to lead.


What is "TPG"? *
by Piertravlr  (2019-04-16 22:31:44)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


FOFM’s invitation-only board *
by Father Nieuwland  (2019-04-16 23:01:46)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


Thanks. *
by Piertravlr  (2019-04-17 11:46:01)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


it's a high bar for entry. hobbs posts there. *
by ACross  (2019-04-17 11:06:12)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


What is FOFM? Why can't people spell phrases out? *
by Dan93  (2019-04-16 23:09:16)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


I think its a airport *
by 84david  (2019-04-17 08:29:42)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


Fight on for Morrissey -a former poster on Notre Dame Nation
by Father Nieuwland  (2019-04-16 23:38:16)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

He and some others also ran a now defunct blog called Blue Gray Sky

TPG stands for The Polo Grounds, which is the name they gave to their discussion board


And for those of us who only read this site
by bmoreirish  (2019-04-16 09:22:33)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

It is confusing and feels like barking at shadows.


This is more a pro-Book post
by ACross  (2019-04-15 18:29:42)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

I really like him as a player and soon to be fellow alum He has taken some shots on this board and I dont like that. I thought OD's post was silly, sure. But he gets the chicks.


The guy behind him had better be, too
by NJDoubleDomer  (2019-04-15 17:19:50)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

The main weakness of the offense is its vulnerability to putting the QB in the hospital


Do you think Book could win a National Championship;
by daviehamsufferer97  (2019-04-15 16:31:03)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

In a different system?

I do, for the record.


Definitely
by Acrossdmiddle  (2019-04-15 20:55:43)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Unfortunately, he wouldn’t start at those two schools.


Book is as good or better
by mocopdx  (2019-04-16 10:31:29)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Than every Alabama QB in the Saban era aside from Tua.


I don't know, McCarron was pretty good
by jt  (2019-04-16 10:59:56)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

not to take anything away from Book.


I laughed. Well done. *
by ndzippy  (2019-04-15 21:43:43)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


Yes
by HTownND  (2019-04-15 17:09:42)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Unlike the NFL, CFB has not become as QB centric when it comes to winning titles.

It's not a requirement to have a top QB like it is in the NFL.


In a different scheme, for a different coach - yes. *
by akaRonMexico  (2019-04-15 16:49:59)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


Exactly. *
by daviehamsufferer97  (2019-04-15 18:04:00)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


I agree with this *
by ACross  (2019-04-15 17:03:42)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


If Matt Flynn can win one, the answer is clearly yes *
by ndzippy  (2019-04-15 16:33:49)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


Since Matt Flynn quarterbacked LSU in 2007...
by okbar  (2019-04-15 19:44:30)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

The national championship teams not coached by Nick Saban or Urban Meyer were quarterbacked by Cam Newton, Jameis Winston, Deshaun Watson, and Trevor Lawrence. Before 2007, titles not won by Saban or Meyer were won by Vince Young and vacated by USC’s elite talent, and preceding that was Jim Tressel’s team that skated through several close calls in 2002. I think Ian Book is an excellent college QB, but the number of coaches and systems he could pair with to lead a team to a national title would be extremely small.


So it's more about the head coach than the QB.
by rockmcd  (2019-04-15 20:01:30)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

It's hard to argue with that.

I would take that a step further and say that it's more about the head coach than the scheme. For guys like Saban, Meyer, Carroll, and Swinney, I think you could spin a roulette wheel with different offensive schemes, and whichever one they land on they'd figure out a way to recruit/develop great players and put them in the best position to maximize the effectiveness of that scheme.


Yes. Elite coaching can win a title with at least quality QB
by okbar  (2019-04-15 22:07:12)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

play (McElroy, McCarron, Cardale), but without elite coaching, elite QB play is necessary to win the title. And I agree that coaching is more important than scheme, though I expect the elite coaches to employ thoughtful and quality schemes (and recruit as much elite surrounding talent as possible). I also agree that Swinney and Venables might be able to win a title without an elite QB, but there’s a reason Swinney replaced Kelly Bryant when he did.


No snark Who are your top 5? *
by ND_Navy  (2019-04-15 16:26:18)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


In my lifetime
by nd76  (2019-04-15 18:29:05)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

1 Montana
2 Rice
3 Hanratty
4 Theisman
5 Huarte
5 Clements ( tie)


Book is the closest to Clements on your list.... *
by Wolfetone  (2019-04-16 07:10:11)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


"Yugo offense" - lol'd at the one - classic. *
by boethius  (2019-04-15 15:34:47)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


I must have missed something...who's saying "best ever"?
by ndzippy  (2019-04-15 13:19:19)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Couldn't agree more with you re: BK's shitty system. AJ McCarron can't be THAT much more physically talented than Book, and he won two titles at Alabama.

Kelly's system puts disproportionate--and unrealistic--pressure on the QB position, which is why nobody seems to do the job well. Here are just some of the guys who have "failed" Brian Kelly during his time at ND:

- Dayne Crist / 5-star; #22 nationally; offers from USC, FSU, Michigan, Stanford, and Oregon, among others

- Andrew Hendrix / 4-star; #283 nationally; offers from Florida, Louisville, and Maryland, among others

- Everett Golson / 4-star; #267 nationally; offers from Clemson, Virginia Tech, and UNC, among others

- Deshone Kizer / 4-star; #242 nationally; offers from Bama, LSU, PSU, Tennessee, Michigan, and Ohio State, among many others

- Malik Zaire / 4-star; #162 nationally; offers from Bama, Ohio State, Oregon, Northwester, and Wisconsin, among many others

- Brandon Wimbush / 4-star; #46 nationally; offers from Bama, Miami, PSU, LSU, Stanford, Georgia, and Michigan, among others


Has anybody had a lower hit rate with 4- and 5-star QB prospects than Brian F'ing Kelly?!?


Think of the numbers Clausen would have put up in this
by irishhawk49  (2019-04-15 17:25:31)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

offense.
I don’t give a shit that he was not a run threat. it most likely would have been huge numbers to To be clear, though, it most would have been a garnish to an 8 or 9 win shit sandwich.


Huge numbers in both TDs and INTs *
by miamioh_irishfan  (2019-04-15 17:38:05)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


Like the 28 TD’s & 7 INT’s his last season. *
by irishhawk49  (2019-04-15 22:50:40)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


28 and 4 *
by DCDave  (2019-04-16 05:53:38)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


I can only assume
by jt  (2019-04-15 13:40:11)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

that ACross read something about Book being the best ever on one of the homer boards and is bringing it over here since he can't respond there and those guys always check on this board.


I assume this for most of his posts, to be fair. *
by LaughingTulkas  (2019-04-15 14:56:13)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


I think he's dog whistling on Omahadomer on TPG
by El Capitan  (2019-04-15 13:28:47)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Omahadomer said "But you might be watching the greatest ND QB in history by many objective measures." By QB productivity stats, Omahadomer could turn out to be correct.


Is that the complete quote?
by ACross  (2019-04-15 13:39:06)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

If you are going to accuse somebody of "dog whistling" then you better damn well be careful about not being a whisker biscuit.


here's the whole post
by El Capitan  (2019-04-15 15:35:47)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Ian Book is a really good player --
by omahadomer, Saturday, April 13, 2019, 22:57

OK, he doesn't have NFL prototype size (but then again neither does Drew Brees). He has above-average arm strength for a college QB, but he's not John Elway.

But, to quote Dabo Sweeny, "he's a baller."

OK, he didn't play well against Clemson. But neither did any of Bama's QB's.

But the kid has won every game he started except that one, and bailed out the Irish in the Citrus Bowl against LSU.

He completed over 68 percent of his passes last year with 19 TD's against 7 interceptions. He rushed for about 300 yards, and that counts sacks against his total.

He's extremely accurate, including -- and this is big in this offense -- on the run. He can adjust his arm angle and still hit the target. He has great field vision.

He makes the right reads. He's a leader. He doesn't bitch at other players. If it was on him, he takes responsibility.

Barring a horrible injury, he'll own most of the ND passing records by the time he leaves.

Nitpick away. But you might be watching the greatest ND QB in history by many objective measures.


Not sure where the misquote is. I'd post a link to the post, but it's not permitted.


Does he later specify the objective measures which he uses
by Father Nieuwland  (2019-04-15 22:27:26)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

to define ND’s greatest quarterback?

And, by those objective measures, who currently is ND’s greatest quarterback?

I expect it is probably posted later in the thread, but I don’t read Jay’s board.


I like OmahaDomer and I wish that he posted here
by jt  (2019-04-15 18:18:23)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

I somewhat disagree with his assessment, but that's okay.

If our qb and our offense cannot attack the middle of the field it will never be great and he will never be considered one of the greatest qb's, let alone the greatest of all. If we don't develop a better running game (one that doesn't rely heavily on the qb as a runner in a pass based scheme) this offense will never be great.

These will be true statements regardless of meaningless stats racked up against the UNM's of the world because when it comes down to nut cutting time against great teams in the playoffs (the only real measure ND fans use to determine greatness) the team will likely come up short if the two above statements are still issues.

Basically, being considered one of the greatest ever is more than just racking up stats. Right now, we get shut down by elite defenses because they can overwhelm us at the edges and don't have to defend the whole field.


for those who believe in the rule of completeness
by ACross  (2019-04-15 14:52:47)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

"But you might be watching the greatest ND QB in history by many objective measures."

The Capitan knew this was written and chose to omit for reasons that can be assumed to be less than good faith.


What am I missing?
by garbageplate  (2019-04-15 14:58:09)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Your quote in this post is identical to the one posted by El Capitan.


I take issue with his use of the term, "greatest"
by Jvan  (2019-04-15 15:21:56)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

There are several players that deserve to be in the conversation regarding the greatest quarterback in school history, but Book is not one of them. Sure, a statistically accurate short passer in an era of pass-heavy offenses should be appreciated, but that's a long way from a designation as "greatest" or even "great". That term should be used judiciously, and OD has apparently forgotten what it really means.


Most prolific would be a more appropriate description *
by DawsonMayes871  (2019-04-16 07:58:36)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


Dump off passes are not prolific *
by Jvan  (2019-04-16 15:24:36)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


What does that have to do with anything?
by DawsonMayes871  (2019-04-16 21:25:01)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

The guy said "greatest ND quarterback ever by many objective measures," presumably statistics like yardage, touchdowns, TD-to-INT ratio, completion percentage, whatever else. Would you not say that the better description of someone ranking high (if not #1) in those categories would be "most prolific" as opposed to greatest?


truthfully it's mainly a sports talk radio type of topic
by jt  (2019-04-17 01:10:26)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

and one of the things I like about this board is that we tend to ignore that sort of chatter.

if Book ends up being a great player for ND we'll all know it, see it, and recognize it. Tommy Rees might have had better stats than Joe Montana (for instance) but I don't know that many people would say that he was the greater of the two when it comes to playing qb at Notre Dame.


That's fair *
by DawsonMayes871  (2019-04-17 09:33:20)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


Ian would be very effective in a Holtz offense too
by ACross  (2019-04-15 19:44:19)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

He'd be effective in a lot of college football offenses. I would love to see him in an offense that didnt have a governor on it. Imagine driving this bucket of bolts down the highway. She tops out at about 50 mph, then tosses a rod, burns oil, and has to pull over and wait for a tow truck. Then somebody yells at the driver.


To be clear, I don’t agree with the post either
by garbageplate  (2019-04-15 16:21:29)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

I just could not find the misquote.


and that's like why OD qualified it with
by El Capitan  (2019-04-15 15:36:59)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

"by many objective measures"


Distinction without difference *
by 2ndstreeter  (2019-04-15 18:55:36)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


I disagree with you both
by Jvan  (2019-04-15 15:42:42)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Underwhelming stats like that do not in any way measure "greatness". Another example of homer geeks being full of shit. I'm sure OD is happy to have you as a sycophant.


I think Kelly's system's flaws go deeper than "puttng too
by ACross  (2019-04-15 13:23:02)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

much pressure on QB." Although there is that. It's got all sorts of flaws in both design and approach, and we've been over them before.