A shame that ND let Ohio St. get Cody Simon at LB
by Hickster (2019-07-09 19:13:06)

I understand that ND was heavy at LB, but then ND should have backed off one of their recruits from last year. Not taking a LB this year is a shame. They already took someone listed as a LB that will play DE, and they may take another one.

There are 3 LB positions on the team (one can be considered a hybrid as a “Rover”). But not taking one is IMO bad planing, and could result in recruiting loses down the Road. Especially, since Cody Simon.”

- Had ND as his favorite. His brother is on the ND squad, and he is probably a better recruit.
- He is from St. Peter’s in NJ, which has lately produced more talent than any other NJ school, which gives an even stronger inroad for OSU in NJ in the future.
- ND was starting to capture NJ back in recruiting from Michigan, and again this could help OSU to recruit even better in NJ.
- Cody Simon made the first team at LB at “The Opening,” with ND not having any recruits on the first team. There should have been a spot open for an “Elite LB” in this year’s class, and ND missed on a lay-up.

I understand you cannot have Everything, but IMO one spot should have been made available for Cody Simon - we missed on him and he made OSU more of a player for future recruits in NJ and especially at St. Peter’s. ND can not afford to help OSU in NJ recruiting.


I was too, but will say I trust In Lea. I assume this was a
by Tonybullets  (2019-07-10 13:08:08)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

top down driven decision.


I was disappointed too
by quasimodo  (2019-07-10 13:05:11)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

I liked this kid from all I heard and one needs a good relationship with top schools. But it seems it was ND's decision to pass on LB altogether this year.

We have a lot of young talent recruited by our DC over the last 2 cycles that seems to be leading to a logjam in the coming years.

But I think the thing is the numbers are limited to 85 and BK got a little scared this year that we were not going to make it.

To the extent of one of our highest ranked DL get put on medical scholarship possibly to get to the limit.

The biggest issue this year seems to be CB where we have taken a lot 3* athletes. Safety could be a problem but we've recruited very well there over the last 2 cycles so perhaps we'll not take one this year if we can't get a top guy.

They also be saving spots for the next class. We've already got a few really good commits for that class based on our results last year. Perhaps they think they can finally get over the 11-15 recruiting ranking hump next year.

Q


It would be fine if they were actually recruiting well at CB
by bleedsgreen04  (2019-07-10 10:10:27)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

and safety in this class, but they're taking a bunch of projects with high "upside." As a result, this is likely to be another 11-15th ranked class... I hope they close strong with a good season, but a ton of other schools will also finish strong, if not stronger.

It's a shame Lyght can't attract better talent, he seems to coach them up just fine. What could he do with actual 5* guys?


I'm fine passing on him.
by BigNDfan  (2019-07-10 09:00:27)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

ND has bigger needs they need to fill.

Cody Simon is built for 7 on 7 football without pads, which is why he's excelling at places like The Opening.

I wouldn't be upset if they took him, but calling him "elite" is overstating it.


OLBs have pass coverage responsibilities - he was 1 of Top 2
by Hickster  (2019-07-14 11:58:17)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

OLB at the opening for pass coverage, which only brought in the top talent. I suspect his run stopping capabilities are more than adequate. His quickness and speed are important assets when dealing with run defense.

His frame at 218 can easily take on 10+ pounds of good weight and still have the ability to improve his quickness and speed.

Your comment makes it sound like he was an undersized LB - a DB type who got on the 1st team because he was playing out of position.

The team has nothing but unproven LBs on the team, and they took a pass on LB this year. They let OSU into St. Peter’s and I bet it will hurt their future recruiting in NJ. IMO this was not only a short term mistake, but strategically a long term mistake at St. Peter’s and NJ. St Peter’s 2021 4-star DT is a heavy ND lean, but Cody Simon has a whole year to potentially change that situation.

By the way in the 2020 recruiting class, NJ has more 4+ Star Recruits (247 Composite rankings - 9 4-Star Recruits), than any other State North of the Mason Dixon Line). PA only has 2 and OH has 5. California does not count because the Mason Dixon line crosses CA North of the Bay Area

The Top state South of NJ is Maryland with 13 4+ Stars (9 from Catholic Schools and 7 of those from St. Francis and 2 from DeMatha. DC has 4 4+ Stars all from Catholic schools. So, 13 4+ Stars from Catholic Schools in the MD/DC area for 2020, and ND will not land any.

P.S. edit due to change auto correct on my iPad.


LB/DB recruiting is a sore spot for an otherwise good effort
by Hanratty5ND  (2019-07-10 08:20:12)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

1. Can any of you explain wtf ND is doing with their LB recruiting?

With the just signed 2019 class--ND took 4 LB's, none rated very high.
Position ranking by Rivals: 15,27,36,37. By 247: 14,19,21,28.
Overall ranking by 247: 212,366,416,464.

ND can't get a LB in the top 200?

And now we are told that the ND staff plans on taking zero LB's in 2020.
Was it because of the glut of talent they just signed in 2019?
I can assure you Clemson-Bama and OSU don't recruit like this.
ND has no proven starters at LB. None. No proven depth. And they pass on a chance to upgrade that unit in 2020. I don't get it.

2. DB recruiting is a major problem too. Loading up on 3 star CB's is not the answer.
It may be (past)time to put Todd Lyght on the Denson track.

It is a shame because ND is recruiting really well in most other areas.
But these areas will haunt us in the not too distant future. Tough to be elite with this effort.


Care to explain the recruiting rankings of Clemson's LBs?
by RIBS  (2019-07-10 11:15:13)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Last years starters recruiting rankings, per 247 sports:

Jalen Williams: 2 star, 1949th ranked nationally, just scraping into the top 2000 recruits. Clemson edged App State for him.

Tre Lamar: High 4 star, 58th nationally.

Kendall Joseph: 3 star, 593rd nationally.

I mean, how do you win a game with only 1 decent recruit?


Easy to excel, don't get caught using your drugs. *
by ND68  (2019-07-10 11:42:58)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


Love and Pride were three stars
by fbirish  (2019-07-10 09:42:26)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Lyght coached them up well.

Hamilton is a 5 Star who may play some nickel, he is a superior
prospect.

Eliot has developed into a very good safety. Gilman is a transfer
but adds so much.


Pride was a consensus 4* *
by rkellyatrecess  (2019-07-10 16:31:11)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


LB recruiting really isn't that concerning..
by BigNDfan  (2019-07-10 08:56:55)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

They'll have 12 LBs on the roster in 2020. And that's assuming no position changes. They'll literally be 4 deep at LB. They were only going to take a LB if he was a very top guy.

They chose not to pursue a LB after spring practice. I would imagine they feel pretty good about what they have on the roster.

DB recruiting is a different story. They've been out recruited there.


You are more interested in numbers rather than talent.....
by Wolfetone  (2019-07-10 09:11:29)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

This is a critical mistake that BK makes. The LB talent is very poor at ND. We will be 4 deep with mediocrities. Why haven't they taken any
"top guys?" You are correct in your DB assessment.


"The LB talent is very poor at ND". Thats BS.
by goldhelmethead  (2019-07-10 10:45:24)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Lamb, Simon, and Bauer is one of the better combined LB hauls in recent memory. All are 4 star guys who are either pushing to start or break the two deep. The entire group will benefit from strong competition this Fall.

While the group over all is inexperienced, they are certainly not without talent and potential.




Very poor relative to what it should be.... *
by Wolfetone  (2019-07-10 10:56:59)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


I disagree that the LB talent is "very poor"
by BigNDfan  (2019-07-10 09:43:18)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

They also don't have limitless scholarships to give out. They have 21 spots this year. They have to make decisions based on need.

And as I mentioned, ND went through spring ball and made the decision that they didn't need to take a LB in 2020. I trust Clark Lea more than I trust you.

ND has some very promising LBs already on the roster and they're very athletic.


tough decisions need to be made
by jt  (2019-07-10 10:25:31)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

we passed on at least one pretty good OL because of it and apparently a LB as well. I'm fine with that as it is part of the game but it just means that our margin for error on the guys that we do take is that much smaller.


If the LB's are so promising/athletic why so lowly rated? *
by Wolfetone  (2019-07-10 10:04:05)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


Tranquill and Coney were very good players for ND
by RIBS  (2019-07-10 10:48:09)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Per 247 Sports, neither was a top-200 recruit. In fact, they were barely top-300. As such, they are permanently branded as "mediocrities".

I think we all agree that it would be better to have top-50 players at every position. But to dismiss high 3-star/low 4-star guys as "mediocrities" before they ever play a down is just dumb. As noted above, ND's best returning DB was also a 3 star. Sure would be nice to have another 3 star guy back in Julian Love. But like Tranquill, he will be playing on Sundays this year. Not bad for guys "so lowly rated".


Obviously I wasn't referring to Coney/Tranquill.... *
by Wolfetone  (2019-07-10 10:52:16)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


How would that be obvious?
by RIBS  (2019-07-10 11:03:42)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

You are dismissing all of the current LB recruits as "mediocrities" and "so lowly-rated" when their profiles are identical to, or in some cases, BETTER than those of Coney, Tranquill, Pride and Love? I am sure we can come up with others.


I'm referencing this years team.....
by Wolfetone  (2019-07-10 11:12:47)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

As Hanratty pointed out we are top heavy with 3-star prospects as a
matter of course. We should have higher rated prospects. Perhaps
mediocrities is too strong a word but LB recruiting needs better than plus 200 talent.


2 of our potential starters (Simon and Lamb) were top 100
by smithwick  (2019-07-10 11:47:38)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

prospects. Asmar Bilal was top 200. All 3 were four stars. Not saying it's some amazing LB depth chart, but you overstate the case.

The biggest issue this year is the gap between the Elko/Lea prospects and those recruited under BVG; the 2016 and 2017 classes were duds.


wow, BVG didn't do a good job recruiting?
by jt  (2019-07-10 13:22:12)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

man, who would have guessed?


This year's team.
by RIBS  (2019-07-10 11:45:13)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Ok, let's go with that. Find me the recruiting profile of Gilman and Pride, Notre Dame's best defensive backs. The latter is making some pre-season All-American teams. Let's try Ian Book. No doubt he's among the best at his position. Again, I could go on and on, and we could contrast Gilman, Pride and Book with a bunch of top-100 high school guys. Pride, Gilman and Book would come out ahead. A lot.

Deciding whether a player is ever going to be good (enough) or bad based on a high school profile is absolutely stupid. As JT said, there is less margin for error with a lower-ranked guy, but that doesn't damn the entire position group. See Clemson example above.

Oh, and I love the suggestion that Todd Lyght be put out to pasture. Seems like Love, Pride and Gilman might have been coached up a bit.


When you have a plethora of under recruited prospects....
by Wolfetone  (2019-07-10 12:16:55)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

And are fantasizing that they will be coached up, rememember that
BK has never won a NC or even a major bowl game. History repeats
itself when not addressed. I can't live on maybe,should be,could be
might be,etc. To me that is stupid. Why should ND settle for so
many 3-star players and then hope they are coached up? Sure,one
or two might develop into a good player,but you aren't going to win
a NC with that level of talent.


what about if you have a plethora of pinatas? *
by jt  (2019-07-10 13:35:26)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


On the other hand, taking kids based on their Rivals ranking
by smithwick  (2019-07-10 12:25:05)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

leads to a lot of dead weight as we saw under Charlie.

Based on the play of the linebackers the last two years and the defense last year, Clark Lea has earned some respect. If they don't think a kid, whose brother is on the team and plays at a ND feeder school, is worth the scholarship compared to the guys already on the team, I'm not sure why we wouldn't trust their evaluation. They've obviously scouted this kid extensively and know plenty about him.


What makes you think ND turned him down?
by NDMike2001  (2019-07-10 06:28:21)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Or didn’t have a spot for him?


He was specifically told it...
by BigNDfan  (2019-07-10 08:47:29)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

He was coming to ND if they wanted him.


How do you know? Premium payed recruiting site info? *
by goldhelmethead  (2019-07-10 12:47:29)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


Agree completely. BK is interested in numbers not talent. *
by Wolfetone  (2019-07-09 23:57:31)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


Strongly agree *
by BIG MAC  (2019-07-09 21:12:48)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


“Damn shame what they did to that dog”
by Frank Drebin  (2019-07-09 19:55:16)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Great line from “Coming to America”
Couldn’t resist using it