we are $20 million behind the ACC schools, then it seems to me that at least one of two things, and perhaps both, must be true. Either we are getting hosed in our ACC share, or we're getting hosed by NBC. In other words, why wouldn't it be the case that NBC + ACC pro rata share = more or less what anyone else gets?
These guys are getting bursitis patting themselves on the back for nobly taking less money for "independence," and I'm trying to figure out why we have the mark as our AD.
Big Ten teams theoretically get more money than ND because cable subscribers have to pay in order to watch some of the games on the Big Ten Network. It's not just about ad revenue. Whereas NBC only makes ad revenue off of ND.
from its CBS contract?
Even if you concede the first two points as true, though I have my doubts Jenkins would have allowed an interviewee for one of the most important jobs at the university to go on for half the interview discussing how well the Big Ten was doing something, points three, five, and six are clearly either an exaggeration, or out-right lie. Regarding the point about leaving $20mm annually on the table by being independent, seems a little odd to me that one would publicly disclose such information if true, as it surely would weaken our negotiating ability if we ever decided we needed to join a conference.
We're more like BC or NC State than we ever have been or wanted to be.
Own it, Jack, you smug POS.
That is, the boy from South Jersey did not exactly feel like ND was "home" when he arrived on campus back in 2001. Sure there were plenty of folks from the East Coast there, but it definitely had more of a Midwest vibe than an East Coast one.
That said, I'm not even sure what someone means when they say "East-Coast" school.
As in, we’re certainly more like those refined and polished east coast schools than we are like these hayseed land grant hicks.
"Notre Dame remains a national school located in northern Indiana."
that Notre Dame remains stuck in northern Indiana but desperately wants to be thought of and accepted by the East Coast schools.
But it has a midwestern culture that it should not disavow. It does not have an east coast culture, much less a southern one.
That's the ticket!
Born in Denver. Raised in Green Bay. Lived in DC, Madison, Chicago (5 plus years) as well as St Louis. Travel much of the time. Dt Louis is fine. as good as most cities.
whole, and as some have alluded the independence has brought in a lot more money than it has cost.
body was California. Can anyone confirm?
Followed by California (159), Indiana (151), New York (145) and New Jersey (116)
My recollection is that Illinois was 1st, Indiana 2nd, 3rd-5th were Ohio, NY, and either NJ or Michigan in no particular order, and CA was 6th.
and California is 2nd with 8.8% according to this report.
Sounds like an east coast school to me.
Meanwhile, 35% come from Illinois, Ohio, Indiana, Michigan and Wisconsin. Throw California and Texas in, and that number goes to 49%. Throw Colorado in and we're at 51%.
Yep, sounds like an east coast school to me...
philly, sure. Not Pittsburgh.
You forgot to add Iowa and Missouri to the Midwest. That might yield another 5%.
You forgot MA, CT, MD, VA, NC in the roll of east coast states
The DC area is probably third behind Chicago and NYC
Swarbrick point is a bit ham fisted not to mention at cross purposes to the message he is trying to convey......that there isn’t a
Conference the could house ND desire to play in front of its
Stake holders from year to year.
As for the east coast argument.....the original subway alumni were certainly an east coast
Construct
My point is that about 40 percent of the student body is midwestern and that should be acknowledged and embraced and not camouflaged and disavowed. We are not eastern or southern or mid Atlantic.
We have a midwestern center of gravity. A national presence for sure. But we are a fish out of water in the ACC. Most especially in footballl.
The answer is not to join the Big 10 though I would prefer it to the fka Southern Com]nference. I think the answer is implosion and recruit the likes of Texas, Penn State,Nebraska, Miami, BYU and a couple others to blow up the conference/ESPN monster dream it all up again.
MA and CT were in my original number (they account for 4.4% between them).
So, those three states are just shy of Indiana at 6.6%.
The point stands.
But instead mid Atlantic or southern.
What are Iowa and Missouri respectively?
I think the numbers per state are on a particular class year rather than all undergrads.
268 (IL)/8530 (undergrad) = 3.1%
It also said 47 states were represented...which were not? They all seem accounted for.
268/~2000 = 13%
I’ll just never understand why a college needs to monetize every f’ing thing. Touch the play like a champion sign $50. Walk on the field $75. Take a picture with Rocke’s exhumed body. It’s just gross.
Are there stockholders clamoring for higher profits somewhere? So you leave some money on the table to maintain what you are as an institution. Guess I’m just naive.
I didn’t got to ND so I’m sure alum have stronger feelings on this than I but I still find Swarbrick to be a money grubbing opportunist.
On my visit in 2014 I paid $10 for a tour, and had no issue touching the sign or going to the field. Did they change that?
the sign was re-tweeted. That article says “ND doesn’t make a dime off the sign.”
Someone responded does ND really not make any money off the sign?
Rick Mirer replied “They make money.”
I wonder what Rockne and his players that bounced around the country in the 20's while other schools stayed at home (to be fair Michigan bravely traveled to Minnesota every other year) in order to build a great national program would think about Jack and his boasts that he's not destroying their work as quickly as he could be. I wonder how they would feel about a man that makes withdrawals on an account they built up and whose only deposit is the one he took on Rockne Stadium.
Since Swarbrick became the AD in July of 2008 (11 years ago) here are all the national titles in that 11 year time period, across all sports
Fencing
2011
2014
2015
Women's basketball
2018
Men's Soccer
2013
Women's Soccer
2010
6 titles in 11 years (I'm open to any I missed)
Senor Blanco was AD before Jack, for 8 years.
Women's Basketball
2001
Fencing
2003
2005
Women's Soccer
2004
4 titles in 8 years and 6 titles in 11.
We need to win one this year so Jack can stay ahead of the Dr. White pace (and like I said, we can count the titles under Jack even though he had nothing to do with hiring Bobby Clark, Muffet, Waldrum, and only promoted Kvaratskhelia, who was hired onto the Irish staff during the time of Dr. White).
about the commitment to independence, which goes beyond football as expressed by Jimmy Dumne.
That is the biggest issue, the rest is small change. Though the language looked a little squishy when talking about consensus vs unanimity.
If you remember Jack tested the “changing landscape” message years back with an eye toward the BigN and Burish’s dream(I think) of the BigN.
I don't think their position has changed one bit, as evidenced by the multiple paragraphs on how much independence is costing us.
got here. Aside from hiring a top coach, you'd think they'd go network shopping to up the ante rather than bending over for NBC year after year if the money is that important to them. But there's a certain coziness along with the laziness to that arrangement that likely has kept us independent up to this point. So why bring up how much money we're losing with the NBC arrangement (disguised as not being in a conference) now when we're getting exactly what we bargained for, albeit several decades ago? That is, unless that tug of full conference membership brings with it the promise of more Pacman Jones rain than we'd know what to do with.
It wouldn’t surprise me if this was another testing the waters exercise.
Archaic affections aside.
Lede vs. Lead
Matt J. Duffy
Any journalism student who takes my class will hear this bit of journalism lore, the reason that some journalists spell the first paragraph of a news story a “lede” rather than a “lead.” Here’s how I described it in a blog post a few years ago:
Because back in the good ole days when newspapers were laid with metal pieces of type, the space between the lines of copy were filled in with blank strips of lead. If you wanted more space between the type, then you added more lead. Hence the typographic term “leading” to indicate vertical space between type.
If an editor writes on a proof sheet that an article has a bad “lead” — meaning the first sentence to the news story, then that could easily be confused with bad “lead” — the space between the type. So, some brilliant newspaperman long ago changed the spelling of “lead” to “lede.” Now everyone always knew whether the editor is referring to the first sentence or to vertical spacing.
I’ve heard over the years that not old-time journalists used the “lede” spelling and some have even suggested that we old-schoolers should just drop “lede” as an archaic affectation. NEVER!
Nowhere in the piece was Swarbrick quoted as being 100% committed to independence.
Here's one quote from him:
"There is no financial advantage to Notre Dame being independent in terms of operations. It costs us money. We would be much better off all in with the ACC or any Power 5 conference. But it is the broader value it produces. And this is the dynamic that's always a bit hard to articulate and engage in for the fans just focused on whether you're going to win the national championship. That is very important to all of us, but the decisions we make don't just drive to that question."
Here's another:
"It's so much coded into the DNA of the place. It starts with the founder, who was remarkably independent in a host of ways. It starts with the early success of football right at a time where you couldn't join club, because of the politics that have been chronicled about that period of time. This place is more distinct in the American college and university landscape today than it's ever been. And (independence) is part of that."
Bubba Cunningham's quote actually provides an "out" clause for ND:
"They need to have access to the championship. They need to maintain a TV contract. They need a place for their Olympic sports in a competitive league. If they have those three things, they’re going to maintain their independence. If any one of those three are not available, they’ll have to reconsider."
The most definitive quote about ND's independence actually comes from an alumnus, Jimmy Dunne:
"The $20 million is significant. Think of the scholarships and the leveraging potential of $20 million, because that’s where it would go, it would go to scholarships. That means we have to get together and make up for it. We understand what $20 million after taxes is all about. But our independence is worth more."
Probably a big payday for him if he pulls it off. Jenkins wants it; he wanted it bad when the Big Ten made their pitch, only to be thwarted when Texas decided to stay in the Big 12 rather join the PAC 10, resulting in putting to bed all the superconference talk at the time.
Never trust a snake - or those that consort with one.
“Independence is so far beyond football... we have to say to people that, ‘We like you, we respect you, but we can’t go with you here.’ That goes to the core of who we are.”
and on 9-11 lost a lot of his firm?
as his firm Sandler O'Neil would more fairly be described as boutique investment banking focused on the banking sector, buy yes, many employees of andler O'neil died on 9/11. Dunne was out of the office trying to qualify for the US Open. He made many committments to employees and families in the wake of that day and made good on all of them.
Sandler sold out last week to another boutique, Piper, for roughly $500 million.
Keefe, Bruyette & Woods.
I hadn’t thought of those names in 25 years.
He’s chair of the athletics subcommittee
He's on the board. He's the campaign chair. His vote and voice are meaningful.
are probably the most disturbing.
Very changing landscapish... and you would assume he's in the know.
Of
Course it’s changing. I think ND has the juice and the
Money to stay independent but be well
Aware there are forces that would love to force the to heel in a conference (let’s call it the coach K contingent) and there are
Forces that would prefer ND be smothered in its
Sleep ( schembechlerians).
He gave an interview to a longtime, local reporter who is expanding his career based, in large part, on his access to ND athletics. Pete is a good guy. He has a lot of access. He just got hired by The Athletic last year.
He tells Pete that independence is part of ND’s DNA, but makes sure Pete knows how much money ND is allegedly losing by being independent. Makes no effort to quantify the financial impact ND’s rare independence has brought. I promise you that ND has hired consultants to quantify that impact.
He makes sure Pete knows that ND “considered” joining the B1G and flirted with the SEC. He notes that the 5-game ACC sentence was thrust upon him — Jack negotiated for 3 games but couldn’t get it. Forces at work and whatnot. You’ll get nothing and like it.
He seems to be toeing the line while also arming everyone who argues for full ACC membership. I can’t conclude that he is committed to independence.
you, despite all these other reasons why I don't want to do it, so get off my back."
by ND powers that be to move the conversation toward joining a conference. When I read the particular insights you point out and look at them with a pro-conference spin as envisioned by powers that be at ND in favor of conference alignment, I read them as
1. This has been in the works a long time and Jack is just the guy with the long term vision to take us there. Trust Jack.
2. Hey, the ACC has been giving us "love" for a long time, plus, Gene Corrigan would never hurt ND. Trust the ACC.
3. Yeah, we are an east coast school. The fact that so many Catholic and public school kids from Chicagoland and around the midwest grow up loving and attending ND is just more about how those kids want to go "out East". We are an East Coast school trapped in the Midwest! The ACC is a FIT!
4. Wow, that's a LOT of money being left on the table. I mean, heck, we haven't really explored how far we could push NBC or even switching over to be part of the evil empire at ESPN - we aren't talking about that. But, the brand is strong and we are good citizens with our "partners" at NBC... but that's alot of money. What's fair is fair and we need more money.
5. ND is distinct. Everyone who worries that losing independence will somehow change the unique nature of the university needs to CALM DOWN! ND is special whether it is in the ACC or not.
6. The Shamrock Series is kind of stupid. No one really likes it and no one would cry if we lost it which would happen if we join the ACC. Let's join the ACC!
no? Baseball program? Softball? crickets.
How transparent they are with this stuff, and how naive people are in response to it.
Of course that's what's going on, it's clear as day. And people will lambast those who point the obviousness of it all out, because it came from those gold seaters at NDN.
ND plays it's fanbase like a fiddle, and we continue to come back for encores.
membership in the ACC remains the breaking point for most ND fans. They’re good with the Gug, the new Crystal Palace (I just thought of that, I think it works), and the training table. They might have winced a little at cancelling Team Mass and broadcasting the team prayer. But giving up football independence is, I hope, a point of no return for many.
Jack’s last act will be to sign away our independence, then he scrambles back to Indy? Is he that depraved?
And want to play only top twenty teams on repeat.
who tells me face-to-face that they think "Independence is costing ND $20 Million per year".
Jack has negotiated the rough seas of CFB and look at us now.
#kickingassandtakingnames
#still0fuckingchampionships and #gettingwaxedinasemidoesnotcount
I won't punch people in the face, but I'm sure as shit going to laugh at any fuckstick who talks about how the ACC has been a savvy move for ND and our football team is better for it.
Those people prefer this cover to the original, no doubt
The schedule is such crap year in and year out - ND wastes the advantages of independence.
Savvy has worn me down. It's not that I'm apathetic - it's that I just don't care.
I could care less.
I just know that doesn't matter when it's all said and done.
ND will do what's best for them financially
People like Sampson will spin it as a great for ND football on the whole, and predict great things
Fans will eat it up and continue to admonish and parody gold seaters
We still won't win titles in football
Wash, rinse, repeat
(6) is complete bullshit and always has been. It was always about the night games.
Not sure on (3), but I can see where he's coming from.
I wouldn't be surprised if (4) was the case, but I also wouldn't be surprised if it was the opening salvo of the "see how expensive independence is" front of the war on it, courtesy of the Admin Mouthpiece himself.
How did he not hire Kalbas
Alum
Coach of the year
Most importantly actually wanted to come to ND and had creative financial details in place thru outside sources to make it possible
If its that simple and Jack screws it up for womans tennis
how can we trust him on other more important issues