ND is 15th. UofM is 14th. MN and Cincy are the only
by cujays96 (2019-12-03 19:34:00)
Edited on 2019-12-03 19:34:11

10-2 teams ranked behind ND. Just as a reminder, UofM is 9-3.

College football has caught on to what 10-2 means at ND with this schedule and this coach.


Thats about right.
by 84david  (2019-12-04 09:21:29)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

We played 2 games, lost both, and were steamrolled in one of them. Thats a tier 4
team.


I Believe
by ndbilly  (2019-12-04 09:14:40)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

That the committee is sending a message to good old Jack. Get in a conference !!!!!


Extension Time! *
by MR_IRISH  (2019-12-04 07:11:30)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


Light up the 15! *
by G.K.Chesterton  (2019-12-03 21:23:26)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


What's the rationale for having Oregon & Utah so high?
by rockmcd  (2019-12-03 21:19:26)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Oregon is 1-1 vs Top 25 teams, plus a loss to an unranked team.
Utah is 0-1 vs Top 25 teams.

I'll concede that Utah passes the "eyeball test" but FFS they haven't beaten a team better than 7-5.

And how exactly is Oregon's 10-2 season impressive enough to be ranked #13? Did the committee think that narrow wins over 7-5 Washington & Cal, and 6-6 WSU were more impressive than the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th best wins that other teams had? It's nitpicking to split hairs anywhere below #12, but it's their job to nitpick and I just don't understand the rationale.

The best argument I can think of is "margin of loss". Both Utah and Oregon can at least say that they were only a couple plays away from going undefeated, but I think Oregon struggled to put away too many unranked teams to justify their ranking.


Why do you care about a #13 team! *
by nd67  (2019-12-04 00:17:30)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


Just talkin' foosball. *
by rockmcd  (2019-12-04 00:57:08)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


Kelly “won November.”
by 01momanor  (2019-12-03 20:42:13)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

And ended up ranked exactly one spot higher than after the Michigan debacle.


I was told “the noise will change, all will be happy”
by Stonebreaker42  (2019-12-03 20:59:31)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

if we won Nov!?

FU BK, JS & your lemmings


Another charming BK-ism. “Noise.” You want less noise,
by 1NDGal  (2019-12-04 09:15:20)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Brian?

You’ve got it.

Not that he has to care about whether fans continue supporting the football team. His money is guaranteed and so is whatever length of extension he wants.


Michigan should be ranked higher than us
by Nodakirish  (2019-12-03 20:22:55)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Agree Wisconsin is too high. Auburn, Alabama and Florida should be higher than Bucky. Wish higher than us with wins over Iowa, Michigan and Minnesota.


if they had two losses too *
by RJD  (2019-12-03 22:35:59)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


Did you watch the game?
by Nodakirish  (2019-12-03 23:38:14)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

In some scenarios you would be correct. Not this year. They embarrassed us. We have no reason to gripe


AP and Coaches Poll agree with me
by RJD  (2019-12-04 08:43:03)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

The AP Poll has 65 sportswriters and broadcasters.

The Coaches Poll has 62 head coaches voting.

The only poll that agrees with you has 13 members. Most of whom are former coaches (3), ADs (5), a former USC player, a former Chief of Staff (Army), and a couple of guys from the academic world. None of whom have any affiliation to Notre Dame that I am aware of, with the exception of Ronnie Lott as our chief rival. Michigan has the benefit of a fellow Big Ten member on the committee.

• Rob Mullens, Chair (University of Oregon)
• Gary Barta (University of Iowa athletics director)
• Frank Beamer (Former Virginia Tech head coach)
• Paola Boivin (Arizona State University professor)
• Joe Castiglione (University of Oklahoma athletics director)
• Ken Hatfield (Former head coach)
• Chris Howard (Robert Morris University president)
• Ronnie Lott (Former Southern California All-American)
• Terry Mohajir (Arkansas State University athletics director)
• Ray Odierno (Former Chief of Staff, United States Army)
• R.C. Slocum (Former head coach, Texas A&M interim athletics director)
• Todd Stansbury (Georgia Tech athletics director)
• Scott Stricklin (University of Florida athletics director)

Two of the main reasons that two out of the three polls agree with me are that late losses and the number of losses count. Michigan just got rolled while Notre Dame has been rolling opponents since the knock down in Ann Arbor. How will Michigan respond? We know how ND got off the mat...Rick




Most of the people in those polls that “agree” with you dont
by tar  (2019-12-04 10:56:23)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Even watch the games. Most coaches have a flunky underling submit their votes. Stop trying to shill for this shit sandwich of a season. In no world should we be ranked ahead of Michigan based on the data we have. Our bullshit November scheduled wins does nothing to erase the ass-raping we received in Ann Arbor (whore).


Well the flunky underlings
by RJD  (2019-12-04 13:06:06)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

know more football than you.

Michigan was also raped. At home, in front of Ann Arbor. Four days ago.

They were also beat on two other times...Rick


Doubtful they do. I read this board and actually watch games
by tar  (2019-12-04 21:24:02)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Which makes me more qualified than most voters.

And Michigan lost to teams ranked ahead of them, just like ND. Their ass rapings came at the hands of the number one and number 8 teams. Ours came at the hands of a mediocre big ten team that deserves to be ranked ahead of us.


so you'd have ND ranked 17th?
by MrE  (2019-12-04 10:53:40)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

ahead of Michigan, but behind Appalachian State, Memphis and Boise State?

Not sure I agree with that.


ND is ranked #14 with Michigan #17 and #18
by RJD  (2019-12-04 12:59:11)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

in the AP and Coaches Polls, respectively, so I am not sure what you talking about Wilber.


ah, sorry.
by MrE  (2019-12-04 13:39:12)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

I just re-read my post and realize I may have been a little obtuse.

I thought you/we were isolating two specific points of comparison when trying to rank one team vis-à-vis another team (total number of losses and late season losses).

I was working under the assumption that you would rank Boise State, Memphis, and Appalachian State ahead of Notre Dame, on the basis of those two specific points of comparison. Sliding those teams up in the rankings would push Notre Dame down to #17.


Cool
by RJD  (2019-12-04 18:03:15)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

The number of losses are not as important when comparing upper tier to lower tier teams that play decidedly weaker schedules like App State.


I hear you...
by austindomer  (2019-12-04 10:21:45)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

...but what happened in Ann Arbor was not just a loss.

It was complete and utter destruction.

It was a Viking raid level of destruction: village burned to the ground, fields salted, men left to die in the cold, and women taken away as slaves. Notre Dame looked like a high school team while Michigan looked dominant.

Ten wins, beating a ranked opponent, gaudy point spreads...none of it matters. There's simply no way to recover from the disaster in Ann Arbor.

Our season ended that night, pure and simple.


Does the OU AD recuse himself from the final vote?
by Stonebreaker42  (2019-12-04 09:21:20)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Otherwise I think I know the answer to who makes it between Utah & OU should both win this weekend.


Yes, they leave the room when talking about their team or
by NumberOneMoses  (2019-12-04 09:31:57)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

a team in their conference.


That doesn't mean he doesn't vote.
by tdiddy07  (2019-12-04 13:46:27)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Assuming he is permitted to vote both for his team and for Utah, he could attempt to sandbag the process, but the voting format limits this. My recollection is they vote in tranches of six teams. Unless this has changed, he could defensibly vote Oklahoma 4 and vote Utah 6 behind UGA. That could overcome two other voters who voted Utah 4 and Oklahoma 5. But if there is a clear consensus of Utah above Oklahoma, he can't overcome that. If it's pretty split, he can makeup one additional vote. Of course, since Baylor is ranked 6 spots ahead of Oregon, next week's games could sway someone to flip Oklahoma over Utah.

Of course, this also assumes that no one has a two-loss Georgia team in front of one-loss Oklahoma. Given that Utah is currently ranked above Oklahoma, it's possible someone decides to slot UGA between them. In particular, Oregon's AD has an incentive to sandbag OU to prop up Utah. And since Oregon's AD doesn't have to recuse himself for either Utah or OU, he can wax poetic about margins of victory or whatever factor helps Utah to overcome it's fairly weak schedule.


He should *
by RJD  (2019-12-04 09:29:12)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


But, but we went undefeated in Nov & had 10 wins!!1! *
by Stonebreaker42  (2019-12-03 20:09:48)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


It's all about the Michigan game and rightfully so.
by Irishdemon  (2019-12-03 20:03:03)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

But make no mistake, the committee is absolutely railroading Notre Dame.

Wisconsin is 10-2 and lost to Illinois and got drilled by Ohio St. and the Badgers are #8.

Notre Dame is 10-2 and lost to #4 Georgia by 6 on the road and got drilled by #14 Michigan and the Irish are #15.

Here's what Mullens said about the Badgers being ranked #8: "Three wins over Top 25 teams, losses to Ohio State and "close loss" to Illinois. "We see them as a balanced team."

Guess who else has three wins over Top 25 teams? Notre Dame does. And they damn sure didn't lose to a team like Illinois - yet Wisconsin is sitting there seven spots higher.

So yeah, ND's reputation in the eyes of the committee is clearly in the shitter.


Sagarin computer has Wisconsin #7 and ND #14.
by squid  (2019-12-04 09:54:16)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Michigan #8.

I often can't make sense of the relative rankings of a computer ranking like Sagarin.

But it's objective. And it backs up the committee.


Who cares?
by NDCuse  (2019-12-03 23:53:23)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

The purpose of the committee is to decide the top 4. No teams ranked after #7 have a chance to make the playoff so it doesn't really matter how the remaining teams are ranked. The committee doesn't put out a post-bowl ranking because their opinions are no longer relevant.

There are 3 undefeated teams who are truly elite. UGA and OU aren't far behind but are weak on one side of the ball. Bama would be in this second group with Tua. After that, there are about 10 teams that are difficult to differentiate in any consistent and meaningful way, but they can't stay within 2 scores of the top 3.


Maybe they aren’t as impressed with our ten wins
by meatwhistle  (2019-12-03 21:55:49)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

As we keep being told we should.


We have a common opponent in Michigan
by BmoreIrish  (2019-12-03 21:53:23)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Wisconsin crushed them, they crushed us. Not hard to comprehend.

The committee is not "railroading" us. They are appropriately ranking us for mediocre results against a thin schedule.


Is this post serious?
by pmcdnd96  (2019-12-03 21:40:01)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

All three ranked teams that Wisconsin beat are ahead of the teams we beat, including the Michigan team that beat the piss out of us.

Our ranking is about right, which is a sad commentary on Kelly.


which top 25 teams? UNM? Bowling Green? Louisville? BC? *
by jt  (2019-12-03 21:27:44)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


So what I am getting from this
by captaineclectic  (2019-12-03 21:25:16)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Is that the committee is very mean and biased against us and still gave us no worse than we deserve.

The damages associated with their alleged bigotry are $0.00.

I’ll spend my agita elsewhere.


Railroading?
by SorinBasement  (2019-12-03 21:13:11)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Please list the signature wins of the Kelly era.

I’ll wait.


[vacated] *
by IrishJosh24  (2019-12-04 12:38:45)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


They were smart to position Wisconsin 8th
by Nihilist in Golf Pants  (2019-12-03 21:12:05)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

If they beat The Ohio State, the committee can justify moving them into the playoff.
If they get drilled as expected, the committee will drop them to where they belong.


Wisconsin crushed Michigan
by Jtnd05  (2019-12-03 21:08:09)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

I have zero issue with the committee's ranking. The Michigan game was a key marker for comparing us to Wisconsin and Penn State.

Our wins are just not as good. This year especially, the top 15 are significantly better than the pack. While are in that group, we should be at the bottom of it.
Any of the team above us would be heavily favored over Navy and Virginia and favored over USC.


No, it's also about the Clemson game
by El Kabong  (2019-12-03 20:16:54)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

And the Miami and Stanford games.

And all the games where ND has been blown out while Kelly stands on the sidelines with a 30-mile stare having no earthly idea what to do.

ND isn't getting railroaded. The committee has decided what a Kelly-coached ND team does, and has decided to no longer give them the benefit of the doubt.


Hats off to the Committee - they got something right. *
by ocmj  (2019-12-04 02:03:26)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


This! ! ! *
by other_guy  (2019-12-03 21:40:03)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


and have you heard our announcers? They hate ND!
by jt  (2019-12-03 21:29:29)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

What I wouldn't give for an alum up in the booth to really give us the info we need during the game! I bet Joe Theismann would even hum "Here Come the Irish" during TV timeouts!


Don’t forget the refs and media hate. *
by irpa  (2019-12-03 21:36:36)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


we need to get our own refs *
by jt  (2019-12-03 23:42:33)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


Agree. This could be the most insightful post of the day *
by ChestnutND  (2019-12-04 10:33:11)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


They won’t get fooled again *
by MAS  (2019-12-03 21:26:13)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


^^^^^^^ *
by 1NDGal  (2019-12-03 21:43:17)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


Agree. And Michigan absolutely should be above ND
by ND44  (2019-12-03 20:13:58)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

But it is worth mentioning that this logic did not exist last year when ND won the game yet some idiots though Michigan should be ranked higher.


That's true, but it never actually happened.
by austindomer  (2019-12-04 10:34:44)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Yes, the question of ranking Michigan above ND was grist for the mill on the sports talk shows during November. But the only people who actually took the argument seriously were butt-hurt Michigan fans who couldn't believe their unbeatable team got smacked down by Notre Dame. For everyone else it was just a way to capture eyeballs.


They are tired of elevating ND only to watch them
by cujays96  (2019-12-03 20:07:36)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

crash and burn.


And they're tired of the criticism that came with it.
by ArasEra  (2019-12-03 21:32:03)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

This is probably a message to ND for the future.


In my heart I hope that the message is not “join a
by 1NDGal  (2019-12-03 21:46:49)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Conference or die,” but rather “you can stay independent, but you damn well better have only one loss and it best be a top-4 team.”

If our one loss were 23-17 at Georgia, life could be different.

I am willing to take that deal in order to remain Independent.


Probably the latter, but I wouldn't be shocked if there are
by ArasEra  (2019-12-03 22:20:15)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

some on the committee who fit in the former.

100% agreeance on remaining independent but let's clean up our act and make no doubt about it.