IU projects 12 million shortfall in athletic budget
by thethinman (2020-06-27 22:11:29)
Edited on 2020-06-29 16:43:32

Some small colleges and universities probably won't be quite as fortunate.




American football is in real trouble at all levels -
by NDHouston  (2020-06-28 05:39:19)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

high school, college, and professional. In the high school ranks, fewer and fewer kids are playing youth football because of parental concerns about CTE. Think of the impact that Howard Cosell's repudiation of boxing had on the popularity of boxing as a sport. Football is going through the same reckoning.

Furthermore, couple that health risk with the fact that baseball and basketball are far more lucrative careers at the professional level, and I expect most of the best athletes to focus on those other sports. For example, if Randy Moss were picking a sport to play in college today, I would expect him to play basketball instead of football, similar to his high school teammate Jason Williams. The NFL will miss out on many of the best athletes going forward due to this.

In the professional ranks the superficial issue is attendance. It's way down, and I would expect that it will drop further. But that's not the biggest problem they will face. The biggest problem they will face is the fact that their minor league, college football, suddenly looks like an exploitative anachronism in the sporting world.

College football is well and truly screwed. On the one hand, there continues to be a massive attendance problem for all but the best games; on the other hand, the sport will change wildly in the next few years, similar to how colleges themselves will change. White millionaire coaches encouraging unpaid black athletes to risk their bodies for an indeterminate reward is simply socially and financially unsustainable in this environment.

The strength of college football is its regional nature. However, due to the fact that the South is finally losing the Civil War history along with the actual war, much of the popular imagery in college football’s Confederate hotbed is in for a spectacularly rude adjustment. Some examples: LSU's Tigers are a reference to a Confederate regiment; North Carolina's Tar Heels are the same; ETA Clemson orients its football field east/west so that no one has to "defend the North"; "Gator Bait" (and presumably "Tigah Bait") have some awful connotations; the "Rebels" of Ole Miss are now as offensive as the Mississippi state flag; the "Eyes of Texas" mistrel heritage has been exposed; Oklahoma’s “Sooners” might need some adjustment; and Texas A&M's starting quarterback is agitating for the removal of Sul Ross's statue, which to many long-time A&M watchers (including myself) is a stunning development.

Financially, while the high school level is somewhat exposed, and the NFL as a business has more flexibility, the college ranks are a huge bubble of flexibly interpreted rules, unpaid players, and operating budget opacity. This may finally drive the creation of the “super league” of the 40 or so schools that will continue to care about the sport, but due to the conflicting academic and athletic missions of many schools, it may just undo the sport altogether. Hold on.

Thank God ND has a large endowment to recover from the Crossroads debacle. I don’t know if Rockne’s old stadium is still underneath, but depending on how this goes, it might make sense to turn Crossroads over to the Archaeology Department to dig away the detritus of overdevelopment and re-establish the House that Rock Built. It’s the only one we ever needed anyway.


Well-said. *
by RagingBull  (2020-06-30 10:03:27)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


Nit: It's just Football. No need for "American" back here
by Raoul  (2020-06-29 11:49:42)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

in Rock's House.


Covid may the excuse ND admins have to drop football
by NDEE01  (2020-06-29 08:07:45)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

at least the division 1 level.

If there's no real college football this year, I imagine the entire collegiate sports landscape will be vastly different simply due to the financial impact on many smaller division I schools.

I don't think the ND administration has the desire to compete in a super league. Without a virus shutdown, maybe the economics and alumni would have forced them to follow (not lead) the other teams on such a venture. Now, they have a potential excuse.


It would take a lot of monster truck rallies
by BottleofRed  (2020-06-29 11:31:05)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

to make up for all of the lost football related revenue.


Only the South remains passionate about college football
by Curly1918  (2020-06-29 05:56:03)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

For the rest of us it has become just another form of entertainment. Of course, Ohio State is culturally an SEC University.


Agree on HS & College, not so sure on NFL *
by Stonebreaker42  (2020-06-28 20:52:50)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


Cant find source for that Clemson thing
by Drinkycrow  (2020-06-28 18:24:16)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Is that legit?


My daughter’s only gone there a year but she’s never heard
by acrossdmiddle  (2020-06-29 14:10:08)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Of it and she is a sports nut. Perhaps it’s possible that no one gives a shit anymore.


And in fact I stand corrected - I dug into it,
by NDHouston  (2020-06-29 14:30:09)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

and it's an urban legend. My bad. I edited the post.


Gator Bait chants when visiting team ran onto field were...
by Scoop80  (2020-06-28 16:28:32)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

an established tradition when I arrived for law school in 1980. The Gator chomp (with band playing “Jaws” music) started following year. There was a publication (analogous to "Blue & Gold Illustrated" called "Gator Bait" back then). After all these decades, I had no clue about the Jim Crow associations of that term. I never expected that chant to be dropped.

I will be interested to see whether they rename O’Connell Center.


Exhibit A (link)
by mitquinn  (2020-06-28 14:25:00)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


Was Crossroads really a debacle?
by Tex Francisco  (2020-06-28 07:17:16)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Crossroads seems to have been executed reasonably on schedule and reasonably in budget, as far as these things go, and the facilities are serving their intended purpose. I get that people don't like the architecture and its effect on campus, but those aren't really the types of issues that I think constitutes a debacle.


You are a deep thinker *
by ACross  (2020-06-29 02:08:19)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


You're exhausting
by gregmorrissey  (2020-06-29 10:22:15)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

I read these boards almost every day, and I can't recall the last constructive thought that you've contributed. And, I'm not an ACross hater. I've seen many times where you've helped raise the level of discourse. Just hasn't been recently.

The beloved Notre Dame Stadium was ruined with the 1998 expansion. There was no character, no improvement. It was just "let's throw on 20,000 extra seats, who cares how it looks". An alternative decision to remove the 98 expansion, go back to 59,000 seats and the original exterior, and find somewhere else to build the academic buildings/student spaces is about the only choice that would be better than what they executed. But keeping the stadium as it was post-98 didn't fit with anything on campus. It was a poured-concrete eyesore.

Have you been inside the stadium since Crossroads opened? It's as good as you're going to get. Add to it the significant academic and student space created which freed Rolfs to be renovated for Men's and Women's basketball. I really can't understand how anyone has issue with this. Sure, it was expensive, but a significant portion was paid for with capital contributions -- and let's not pretend those same donations would have been made to build new buildings scattered around campus for the Departments of Music, Anthropology, and Psychology.

And, like it or not, the campus has expanded and student expectations have changed. It's not 1988 anymore and tuition isn't $7,500 per year. Would it make you feel better if they converted the old golf course into a farm like the early days of the university? Or maybe just return everything to how it was when you walked off campus in May 1988? That sure sounds nice.


get some rest *
by ACross  (2020-06-29 13:21:08)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


!!! AMEN !!! *
by OswegoJoe  (2020-06-29 12:11:19)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


While I don't like Crossroads, I don't think there is much
by 1978Irish  (2020-06-28 10:51:26)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

to "recover from". Worst case scenario is there are no football games to watch from the sky-boxes or no one wants to buy the sky-box seats. Even then, they have the 3 buildings which I assume were paid for primarily with donations.

They will keep using the buildings for their purposes. Maybe they didn't "need" them (how many of the incredible number of buildings ND has built did they really need) and maybe it is stupid to have the student center so far away from the dorms at a school that requires on campus living for 3 full years, but the buildings are still very nice.

I said it when they built it, but it looks to me like the buildings were built so they could demo the stadium and have a nice quad between them. I wonder if that was the long term goal any way.

I would be surprised if big time ND football dies quickly. 20 years from now, maybe, but for now it will probably be business as usual if we fix the virus.


I don't get the objection to the student center placement
by irishlaw2010  (2020-06-28 14:18:05)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

It basically sits in the hypotenuse of the right angle created by Mendoza, DeBartolo, the Engineering buildings, OShag, and Jordan/Science buildings.

It's the most heavily trafficked academic area on campus.


The name is stupid. By definition, you would expect it
by OCND  (2020-06-29 12:41:12)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

to be in the center of campus. That's the issue.


it is on the southeasternmost edge of campus you dolt *
by ACross  (2020-06-29 02:10:44)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


My junior-to-be and friends go there almost every day
by doghoused  (2020-06-29 12:04:03)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Despite your complaint about placement, it's a great space and location for them. And, they still go to "LaFun" on a regular basis too. Admittedly, if you lived in Morrissey or Lyons (or Carroll), it's a hike, but classes are right there anyhow.


Let me see if I'm doing this right
by gregmorrissey  (2020-06-29 18:41:39)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

You dolt, what would your kids have to do with this conversation? Actual students don't know how to use the student activity center. That knowledge can only be gained by attending the school in the pre-internet days. Now that I think about it, also pre- nearly every building that is used as a classroom and half of the dorms.

Thank God I'm well rested.


It’s close to some of the classroom buildings
by 1978Irish  (2020-06-28 19:19:40)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

It isn’t close to the dorms or the dining halls.

I would think a good use would be to go there between classes if it would take too long to go back to your room. I suppose for DeBartolo, that would make sense.

I would expect off campus kids to use it a lot, but you can’t live off campus until senior year.


The main problem was in the messaging.
by smithwick  (2020-06-29 07:48:55)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Was it Jenkins that called the area the center of campus or something like that? Obviously, that area is not the center of campus. However, as noted previously, the current ND student spends the majority of their class time in that area during the week making it a reasonable location for a student union.


Older grads don't like hearing that. *
by Irish Tool  (2020-06-28 16:43:13)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


you clod *
by ACross  (2020-06-29 02:12:01)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


ND doubled down on a dying sport *
by NDHouston  (2020-06-28 10:04:27)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


I find this to be a major overstatement of the case
by jt  (2020-06-28 15:11:22)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

the NFL is still extremely popular, and they get great TV ratings for the draft, combine, and other various events in addition to their games.

College football has watered things down too much and is almost seemingly trying to ruin their product. That said, there is a lot of money at stake and they'll figure it out.

The concussion issue is a real one and hopefully time spent studying the issue and possible treatments will help things dramatically.


he is in the thick of it *
by ACross  (2020-06-29 02:12:30)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


I guess, but with a major hedge built in.
by Tex Francisco  (2020-06-28 10:27:42)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Doubling down on football would have been making a bigger better football-only stadium. ND took a football-only stadium, made it suitable for other events like graduation and concerts, and appended a music building to it.


it is a veritable Viper Lounge *
by ACross  (2020-06-29 02:13:27)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


It’s Jack’s Country Bunker
by golfjunkie17  (2020-06-29 17:49:04)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

They have both kinds of music - Country and Western.


Agreed with this and 1978Irish above.
by Irish Tool  (2020-06-28 13:15:07)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

They cashed in on the willpower, fueled by football, to build something big. They designed it to last and be useful long after that willpower and even football itself are long gone.


Even early in the Kelly era, it was tough getting a ticket
by SWPaDem  (2020-06-28 08:11:51)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

for a meaningful game. But then personal seat licenses (or whatever ND wants to call these things) along with the price of the average individual game ticket exploded to the point that many decades-long season ticket holders and lottery participants just said no in a manner Nancy Reagan would have been most proud.

So why did PSLs and average ticket prices go so high? The cynic in me says we're not bringing in enough money to pay for Crossroads; I don't think the naming rights for the three big rectangles bolted to the big oval even added up to $100 million out of the total price tag of $500 million for Crossroads, so where was the rest of the money supposed to come from to pay for it all? I think ND bit off a lot more than they could chew with this Johnny-come-lately football stadium accouterments concept that was already starting to be out-of-fashion by the time ND decided to jump on board.

And then Jenkins agonizes over how they are to pay for it all with ND expected to lose $100 million over the next year - as a result of the pandemic. (I guess Under Armour dividends aren't cutting it.) But Heaven forbid he touch the precious endowment.

Perhaps debacle is the wrong word to describe Crossroads. White elephant might be more like it. At least Joe Walsh had accountants to pay for it all.



Life's been good to me - so far.


"recover from the Crossroads debacle"
by SWPaDem  (2020-06-28 06:06:36)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Too much, too late for the new center of campus. Maybe we could make it a Monster Truck Museum when we're not pretending to play major college football with a poseur of a head coach, not to mention a poseur of a director of athletics.

It took a village of say-nothing idiots to rubber stamp this baby. Nothing substantive can happen as long as they're still hanging around.


Correction
by LateNiteNaugles  (2020-06-28 09:05:41)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Poseur of a Vice President and James E. Rohr Director of Athletics.

There. Fixed it for you.


Thanks. I always forget that first part. *
by SWPaDem  (2020-06-28 09:45:08)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post