I think all will really appreciate Pyne's year more and more
by ACross (2022-11-28 20:57:16)
Edited on 2022-11-28 20:58:24

As time goes on. He overachieves and hangs in there and gives it his very best and keeps fighting. He doesn't whine about his limitations or point fingers at his teammates.

I hope he returns and plays a meaningful role next year.

For now, he is on my list along with Dayne and Ian and other QBs who came to the right place for the right reasons at the wrong time.

Hats off to him.


He played as well as he could. Hats off to him.
by NDQuebec  (2022-11-29 18:21:12)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

I hope he stays next year to become the backup after ND hits the portal. It's nice to see some give him credit for what he did.


Absolutely *
by IrishLep  (2022-11-29 15:16:43)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


Agree 100% *
by NDRGV  (2022-11-29 13:38:17)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


Agreed.
by daviehamsufferer97  (2022-11-29 13:35:50)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

This team had the look of a 4-8/3-9 team early, and likely would have been if Kelly was still here.


Agree 100%. And Pyne improved despite Rees's play calling
by Erasmus  (2022-11-29 13:23:14)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Pyne is an accurate passer with a good arm--not a cannon, but good. And he is smart and athletic. Plus, as you say, he has grit and is a leader. He is highly respected by his teammates.

Pyne has more tools and upside than Stetson Bennett, GA's walk on QB.

Pyne will learn to go through progression and will drop ball off when under pressure.

The only limit to Pyne's upside is Rees. When Pyne started Cal game poorly and video showed Rees going viral, yelling at Pyne, that was last straw for me. Pyne is smart, quiet and hard working. Yelling at Pyne was the last thing Rees should have done.

I can't speak to Rees's potential for growth in future, but his play calling against Marshall, Stanford and Navy (in the second half) was the worst I have ever seen -- and I say that as a long-time watcher of college football who has no coaching experience.

Rees may understand how to develop a game plan, but he has no capacity to make adjustments during game and has no grasp of strategy, anticipating "mindset" and tendencies of defensive coordinators.

OC's go through a series of scripted plays at start of a game to strategize and prepare for calls later in the game. Rees has no grasp of tactical play calling. The "lollapalooza" tight end QB play with one full yard to go demonstrated that. Rees could have had "QB" flip ball back to Pyne and have him throw to Tyree coming out of backfield -- TD is my guess. My point re the tight end sneak: Rees learned play worked so he was going to keep calling it until it didn't.


"Improved?" from when to when?
by MrE  (2022-11-29 13:28:45)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

I think he played to his full potential, and as ACross stated, deserves our respect in terms of commitment and leadership, but I don't think we have to overstate the quality of his performances (or his athleticism or "tools").

He played well in 3 of his 11 games:
- USC
- UNC
- BYU

2/3 of those performances in his first 4 games.

Navy was a push. Played outstanding in 1st half, atrocious in 2nd half.

He played poorly in 7 games:
- Marshall
- Cal
- Stanford
- UNLV
- Syracuse
- Clemson
- BC

He was 3-7-1 in that regard, and 1-4-1 on the back half of the season.



You are ignoring Rees play calling
by Erasmus  (2022-11-29 16:36:14)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Take Navy. Do you really believe Pyne could throw 4 TD passes in first half and have zero completions in second and blame difference on Pyne's performance?

The difference was Navy blitzed 10 in second half. Yes, Pyne continually held ball and got sacked. Pyne should have gotten rid of ball. But who was the guy who kept calling the 40/60 yd pass plays? Receivers were open in first and second half. Only difference was Rees play calling. He continued to call the same plays in 2nd half as first. First half Pyne had time. 2nd half he didn't. No team can defend 10-man blitz.

Can say the same against Marshall and Stanford. Your right to say Pyne zeroes in on target. He threw two pics against Marshall. But both happened because Rees called play to Mayer. Rees always called pass to Mayer on 3rd and short yardage. No creativity.

Against Stanford they were blitzing corners and went straight to Pyne. Rees even put wide receivers in motion toward Pyne (rather than have them pivot and go to sideline) leading corners to Pyne.

My point? Pyne has serious problems holding ball and going though progression. With time however he is reasonably accurate. With right OC much of Pyne's downside could have been limited. What did the defensive coordinators for Marshall, Stanford and Navy games did was "gamble" to take advantage of Pyne's weaknesses. And Rees failed to adjust. Instead, he compounded problem by calling plays that allowed defenses to exploit Pyne's weaknesses.

I could go on. The problem was the primary call made by Rees. Sure, experienced QB would have checked out or gotten rid of ball. But if Rees's call out of huddle had been a play where Pyne got rid of ball in one to two seconds in 2nd half against Navy -- for example, say a swing pass to Tyree, Navy's 10 man blitz would have exploded in their face and Tyree would have taken it to the house.


In USC game he had some good throws. Impressed. *
by sticker  (2022-11-29 13:06:05)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


Agreeance. He did his best. All one can ask for.
by Fresno MIke  (2022-11-29 10:37:45)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

He's a gamer and will do well in life.


Well said. *
by TWO  (2022-11-29 10:23:36)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


Amen *
by T-Bone  (2022-11-29 10:11:42)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


Not to mention enduring being called a smurf. *
by NDMike2001  (2022-11-29 09:12:07)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


I never called him that
by ACross  (2022-11-29 10:27:30)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

I called him a dwarf. It is more accurately thought of as a critique of the coaches. I am pretty sure Pyne knows how tall he isnt.


You called him a midget
by DawsonMayes871  (2022-11-29 12:06:56)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

A normal label of yours for Golson when he was at ND as well.

I agree with the sentiment you expressed in the original post, but it is pretty funny that whenever you criticize a player (physique or otherwise) then you think it should obviously be considered a critique of the coaches and not the player. I'm sure if you asked Pyne if "Pyne's a midget with a noodle arm" was a criticism of him or the coaches he'd align with your point of view.


little person *
by nitschke  (2022-11-29 12:29:43)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


Carnies
by threeleafdomer  (2022-11-29 14:15:36)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Circus folk. Small hands - smell like cabbage


NDN meet up (warning weird)
by nitschke  (2022-11-29 17:11:46)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


When the men In front of him are at least 6’2, 5’8 is dwarfy *
by airborneirish  (2022-11-29 12:24:18)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


No one...
by DawsonMayes871  (2022-11-29 12:38:52)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

...is disputing Pyne is really short for a quarterback. It's just funny when a demeaning post directed at a player is supposed to be construed as not as a critique of the player, but "an indictment of the coaching staff."


Dimwit *
by ACross  (2022-11-29 19:40:43)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


Your vocabulary is sorely lacking for a college grad
by DawsonMayes871  (2022-11-29 21:15:22)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

But that’s obviously not a critique of you, it’s on your English teachers. You’ve done what you can with what god gave you and I applaud you for your efforts…you illiterate bastard. Obviously directed at the teachers again.


But it did occur.
by IrishJosh24  (2022-11-29 11:22:38)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

I'm not sure the initial point was made specifically about you.

Not that one pejorative is much better than the other here anyway.


But you did call him ...
by NDMike2001  (2022-11-29 11:11:24)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

a midget. I'm happy you support him now.


As Brunswick said, it is not his fault we recruited him
by ACross  (2022-11-29 15:58:05)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Amd his height is positively a limiting factor. The context was Rees and his attraction to short qbs.


Pyne has played with true grit all season. A credit to ND *
by Frank Drebin  (2022-11-29 09:08:02)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


No Credit to you Drebin, you ripped him all year
by ND Harvey  (2022-11-29 10:36:41)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

You A-Hole....


Was always pushing Pyne to be starting QB ahead of Buchner
by Frank Drebin  (2022-11-29 11:48:10)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Learn some reading comprehension for starters


Well said
by alleghenyirish  (2022-11-29 08:53:51)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

I was incredibly critical at the beginning, and even in the middle of the season at times, but full credit to the kid for toughing out this season and showing alot of improvement. Cannot ask for more from him.


Full agreeance...
by Kbyrnes  (2022-11-29 00:17:30)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

...You can't dictate the circumstances surrounding your opportunity, but you have a lot of control over how you approach and use that opportunity. Drew did a great job; and to expand on your comment about next year, if he can expand on his play against USC, he could have a very high ceiling indeed.


BKs departure thawed an icy cynicism surrounding the program
by IndianaIrish131131  (2022-11-28 23:09:42)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Overall I thought this was a fun season in many ways. Drew Pyne's development and growth, the mid-season re-commitment to the running game, our punt blocking team. There were a lot of fun moments.

I could tell that the players felt it too. They understood their identity, they were less afraid to make mistakes and as the season went along you started to see development with quite a few players.

Even with the 4 losses I see a lot of reasons for optimism going into next year. Most of all - Freeman is a true leader. His attitude and spirit embody the better memories I have from my college years.


Great last paragraph
by Brahms  (2022-11-29 08:12:13)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

The qualities you note (you forgot to specifically note humility) may not be enough on their own to get us back into the top 5, but they bode well. I think he will be open to what he needs to learn, and tuned into many sources of guidance and input.

He models an ND person in ways Kelly could not.


I love Freeman's humility
by doghoused  (2022-11-29 09:04:16)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

I think a true leader needs to be humble.

With that said, I was a little taken aback when he greeted Lincoln Riley while mic'd up before the game. Riley said something like "How's it going?" and Freeman's response was something like "Still figuring it out every day." I'm not sure what I would have wanted to hear as a response, but this seemed a little TOO humble when meeting the opposing coach for the first time.


Who the f#%@ are you and what'd you do with Across?
by Dennis  (2022-11-28 22:36:33)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Seriously, I agree. I just wish they had trusted him to throw a little earlier in the game. It might have had a positive impact for both the run and pass games.


Only nit is regarding Book
by Athlete37  (2022-11-28 21:54:58)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

I don’t think it could have turned out much better for him. He went to the playoffs twice as a starter and his “down year” was an 11-2 season. He took advantage of a mediocre quarterback situation and maximized his potential. Not really sure it was a “wrong time” for him to be at ND.


"Went to the playoffs" is devoid of meaning
by ACross  (2022-11-28 22:00:27)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Absent the completion of the story.


But Book wouldn't have started for a championship team.
by RockMcD  (2022-11-29 02:56:03)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Put another way, if ND was a championship level team from 2017-2020, then they would have either recruited a more naturally talented QB or done a better job at developing the more naturally talented QBs that were behind Book on the depth chart, namely Wimbush and Jurkovec. Is that not the point you're making?


Doesn't everything you just wrote
by potatohouse  (2022-11-29 09:20:28)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

pretty much perfectly describe the reigning champion and their QB situation?

I think Book could've switched places with Bennett as smoothly as a Back to the Future changing photograph. And I think he could've definitely AJ McCarron'd a built to win roster.


Stetson yes, McCarron no.
by rockmcd  (2022-11-29 11:24:49)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

My recollection is that AJ McCarron was as highly recruited as an Alabama QB should be. He was limited only by Alabama's pound it style, not his physical abilities.

Good point about Stetson Bennett, but he might be the exception that proves the rule, as they say.

I guess you'll need to ask the OP what his point was because the grouping together of Crist, Book, and Pyne is confusing. Crist was a 5 star recruit who lost his starting job at 2 different schools. Book was a 3 star recruit who led his team to playoff appearances in 2 different seasons. And Pyne was a 4 star recruit who seems to have lower expectations than the supposedly less talented Book.

I for one am less willing to give Pyne a participation trophy for his efforts. He is a 4-star QB and I stand by my take last year that he should have started last year vs Cincinnati when our OL was unable to protect Coan. I am not as surprised as others when he plays well, and am as frustrated as everyone else with his inconsistency. His 8-2 record in games he started was the floor of my expectations given the talent of our running game and defense, the success we've had over the past 5 years, and the quality of our opponents (UNC, BYU, and Syracuse are not good teams, despite their inflated rankings on gameday, and Stanford sucked ass). Many teams have had success with backup QBs at ND and elsewhere, under good coaches and bad ones. Kevin McDougal in 1993, Matt Lovecchio in 2000, Tommy Rees for the last 4 games in 2010, Deshone Kizer in 2015, and Ian Book in 2018. Committing to a strong running game and defense is critical when a backup qb is pressed into service.


No argument at all.
by potatohouse  (2022-11-30 12:25:47)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Stetson was the clean comparison I wanted to highlight.

With McCarron, very much agree that they had vastly different recruiting profiles. I only included him for the parallel that despite Book's beginnings, his body of work at ND indicated to me that he could have very likely served as AJ McCarron during Alabama's running offense days. And both college careers resulted in mid/late draft profiles, although as it stands, McCarron looks like he will have ended up with the more (relatively) meaningful pro career.


Agreed. McCarron had an 8 year NFL career.
by tdiddy07  (2022-11-29 13:10:08)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

He was two personal fouls away from winning a playoff game. And a team even tried to trade for him to be their starter.


Over 3 yrs: 2 top 5 finishes and 1 top 10 finish.
by Athlete37  (2022-11-28 22:26:58)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

7 wins over ranked teams (excludes Wimbush’s win over Michigan in 2018), 5 total losses, 0 home losses, 0 losses against opponents outside top 20. The guy maximized his talent and opportunity.


Dear Lord *
by ACross  (2022-11-28 22:54:38)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


Hear, hear!
by mkovac  (2022-11-28 21:53:05)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

I applaud him.


Agreed. I can't get upset with Pyne.
by BeastOfBourbon  (2022-11-28 21:41:13)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

He was put in a difficult situation, constrained to a degree by his own physical limitations, but much more-so by the limitations of his OC and the trappings of a dogshit offensive scheme. He didn't let this team down. That was the work of others.


Well said. *
by Gabby  (2022-11-28 21:23:57)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


I liked his response after Rees’ on camera yelling.
by Giggity_Giggity  (2022-11-28 21:20:00)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Said he asked to be coached hard, as that was how he responded best in practice and games.


Maybe. IMO that was Pyne dealing with Rees as best he could
by Erasmus  (2022-11-29 16:57:14)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

I agree with you that was a classy response on Pyne's part. But from all I read about Pyne he is dedicated, hardworking and respected by teammates.

Pyne's first start against Cal was a disaster. Three straight three and outs. He was nervous. So, what does Tommy do? He screams at Pyne when he puts headset on after returning to bench. IMO Pyne is smart and responds best to quiet criticism. Supposedly he is the ideal Ivy Q-back. Yelling at him, as Rees did, is not going to help calm his nerves.


I agree. Grinders all. We could've done much worse. *
by 93NationalChampions  (2022-11-28 21:02:17)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post