The proper vernacular is ...
by CJC (2011-09-14 10:37:11)

In reply to: This is really a terrible shame  posted by ACross


N10.

I was a raving idiot on Michigan's last drive, after watching stoically during Michigan's penultimate touchdown drive and during Notre Dame's go-ahead drive.

A raving idiot the likes of which my wife had never seen, and believe me, she's seen a lot.

In the aftermath, I began to wonder about my emotional investment. It's obviously too late to withdraw the many previous deposits over the past 40-plus years.

On the plus-side, I have my friends, memories and lessons learned. They can't take that away from me.

On the other hand, I have two kids at Notre Dame. We all know that football is not the most important thing at Notre Dame, but we also know that it is the catalyst, the fuel for the passion in ways that no amount of scholarship, service or spirituality ever could be.

What will they have? What will we have in common, besides a diploma?

So I offer this for everyone's consideration. And in closing, I'll note that my kids are frustrated that many students (although certainly not all) fail to share their anger and frustration, for better or worse.




Beautiful letter. *
by OGerry  (2011-09-14 10:37:11)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


Her Mother is a Saint *
by Chuck84  (2011-09-14 10:37:11)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


Her mother is no doubt a scholar and excellent parent....
by Indy77  (2011-09-14 10:37:11)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Lauren has inherited Mom's skill as a "wordsmith-er".


I neither deserve nor take any credit. *
by CJC  (2011-09-14 10:37:11)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


That letter is outstanding
by pmcdnd96  (2011-09-14 10:37:11)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

For the people who get Notre Dame, that letter will make perfect sense. For the people who don't get Notre Dame, that letter will go right over their heads.

Your daughter is a bright girl.


But how do you tell
by ShermanOaksND  (2011-09-14 10:37:11)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

whether N10 is a nephew or niece? Do we need Ne10 an Ni10?!

That link made me sick. I was still seething with anger when we went up 31-28. By no means did I think we'd sealed the win. Savoring that moment is utterly pathetic. It's like savoring a last-minute stay of execution that gets reversed moments later by the Supreme Court.


This post is perfect.
by jsarna1  (2011-09-14 10:37:11)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

I was angry after watching us take the lead 31-28. First, I was not at all certain that that score would be enough. Second, it NEVER should have taken that. The moment was so tarnished by everything else that occurred.

What I also think is "pathetic" is that the link attached is the "best" moment of my 4 years at Notre Dame, which is to say that Notre Dame made a "nice" comeback against a mediocre team in a game that really didn't mean a whole lot.

To only have a Pat Terrell batting away a pass game at ND Stadium just one more time...


That's definitely one way to look at it ...
by CJC  (2011-09-14 10:37:11)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

And it's the way that I look at it.

But as I think about whether there is any chance that my kids will experience the joy and exhilaration that I have experienced following Notre Dame football, I seize upon that moment not as a pale imitation (which it certainly is for me), but as a promise (better, hint) of what could be.

As I said to her last night -- I don't mean to diminish what she experienced for that brief moment at all. It's her life, that was her moment. But I assured her that a national championship would exceed that in ways she couldn't possibly understand.

And what an incredible thing that would be to share with her and her brother.


ND football while I was a student wasn't much better
by ShermanOaksND  (2011-09-14 10:37:11)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

than it is now. It might even have been a tad worse. I had four years of Faust. We were 25-20-1 and never won more than 7 games in any single season.

But even then, we beat No. 1 Pittsburgh and No. 6 LSU, both convincingly, and both on the road. We also beat No. 10 MIchigan in the first home night game, crushed unranked Penn State 44-7, and beat Southern Cal three times (to start the 13-year unbeaten streak). Best of all, we hired Lou Holtz, although he didn't coach his first ND game until after I graduated.

I also enjoyed multiple national championships as a child growing up in South Bend, and of course the 1988 NC soon after I graduated. So at least I had the then-recent past and a promising future to look at, along with our other tangible if fleeting accomplishments during the Faust years.

The last 15 years have sucked beyond comprehension.


And you have that choice
by pmcdnd96  (2011-09-14 10:37:11)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

I don't think savoring that moment is pathetic at all. I think that moment is what keeps us all coming back, what keeps up our hope.

Your analogy is flawed, because we still get to play football this Saturday, the saturday after that, and so on.


It's your assertion that is flawed
by Jvan  (2011-09-14 10:37:11)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Sure, we will play a game this Saturday and several Saturdays after that. The problem is the results don't really matter because Notre Dame is not among the elite and may never be again. We're like a kids soccer team where the score is not important but the kids can feast on fruit, granola and apple juice.


No, we're not the kids soccer team
by pmcdnd96  (2011-09-14 10:37:11)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

This board is proof of that. How many people are here discussing how much fun it is just to be involved? None. I take that back, the number is about 5...out of multiple hundreds. That loss was painful as were far too many over the past 15 or 20 years. It was painful to watch and it was painfully predictable.

And I think you're full of crap if you think the results don't matter. If they didn't matter, you wouldn't be on this board. You wouldn't watch the games on TV. The fact that you don't completely give up is proof that the results matter. Will the results birng a national championship this year? Not without some sort of miracle where we run the table and every team in the top 20 loses three times. But what if they do turn it around? What if we do run the table? What if those repeated, systematic "fluke" mistakes somehow stop being repeated and systematic? The results matter and you know it.


They don't matter to me
by Jvan  (2011-09-14 10:37:11)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

If I did not have a stake in NDNation, I would not watch the games. I'm forced to write about them because it's expected of me. Participation in this forum may be theraputic for some and a way to stay connected to friends for others (like me), but I feel sorry for those who actually believe there is good football around the corner. I don't think there are many such folks left and I'm certainly not among them.

I do not believe we will win or even play for another national championship in my lifetime. If I choose to make the 2000 mile trip to attend another game, it will only be to see my good friends and represent NDNation at a tailgater. The game, the team and the program are irrelevant. I value the people this site has connected me with, but the football connection is no longer what binds me to them.

I had thought about attending the MSU game but will play golf with my friends instead. I then planned to attend USC because I sort of promised Oldtown and Cash that I would meet them there. I can't bring myself to make the reservations while I search for a plausible excuse to bail out.

The results of our games don't matter because the program is not going in any particular direction. Wins and losses have no meaning in such an environment. Any talk about a return to glory is just silly. ND even stopped making T-shirts about it. At least kids soccer makes me smile.


As I watched the game with some friends...
by Buckyd9  (2011-09-14 10:37:11)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

like you CJC, I sat stone faced as the last 2:13 unfolded. I was unfazed when Michigan scored. I just sat there. As my two buddies were giving me shit, I didn't say a word. Then Rees marches the team down with 30 seconds remaining and both my buddies start saying things like "Holy crap, that was amazing" and "Congratulations." I didn't say anything. I just sat there and said, "guys, it isn't over. There is still time on the clock." Their response was "it's 30 seconds. No way. It's over"

When Michigan marched down the field, my buddies were in shock saying things many people probably said, like "no way did that just happen" or "where the fuck was your defense?" or even worse.

Not me. I just got up off my chair, walked over to the fridge, and grabbed a cold beer. My buddies said "how are you not throwing shit all over the place?" My response was "guys, I've been here before. I've come to expect it."

A loss like that 15 years ago would have killed me. Heck, even 10 years ago it would have pissed me off. Now, it appears I've joined the apathetic crowd where I come to expect the worst and hope and pray it doesn't materialize. It has. Many times.


I stopped watching the game with 6:00 left.
by Inspectorclouseau  (2011-09-14 10:37:11)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

You know, when Rees dropped the fucking ball.

I told my friend, "I've seen this before. Let's walk to the bar."


My response
by HTownND  (2011-09-14 10:37:11)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

To Saturday versus Saturday September 2, 1995, when we lost the home opener to Northwestern, were in stark contrast.

Some of it is age and maturity. But I didn't have the complete and utter despair that I had the night of 9/2/1995.

It really is sad. It's sad that the last time we were close to greatness, was on a cold Dallas night in January 1994. People born after that game, will be freshman this year and next. They will have lived their whole lifes not knowing a Notre Dame team that competed for a national title.

But I still get mad, and upset. But not like I used to get. Perhaps it's age and maturity. I fear that it's acceptance and moving on.


I think you are twisting things
by pmcdnd96  (2011-09-14 10:37:11)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

On that cold January night in 1994, we weren't playing for a national championship.

If you're going to change it to "in the discussion" or "in the hunt" then we were ranked in the top 5 as recently as 5 years ago and that's as "in the hunt" as we were in January of 1994 when we chose not to play FSU again. Six years ago, had we managed to stop USC on 4th and forever or on the goal line, we would bave been right in the hunt as well.

Kids have seen fleeting glimpses of excellence off and on for the past 15 years and that is what has been so frustrating, and why the start of the season has been so frustrating - we see the beginnings there, but can't put it together. If the team flat out sucked, it would be easy to go apple picking, or go rake leaves, or whatever else normal people do on a fall Saturday. But instead, we sit there in front of our televisions, hoping that day is the day they put it all together again.


No, I'm not
by HTownND  (2011-09-14 10:37:11)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

I was there in January of 1994. The players, the fans, everyone there, thought that if FSU beat Nebraska, we'd win the National Title. I was on a bus, heading back to Houston, while we listened to that FSU/Nebraska game on the radio. When FSU pulled it out at the end, we were all celebrating as if we had won the title.

2005 involved a loss to USC in mid October. We haven't been in the national title discussion, late into November, since 1993.

We've had glimpses, but that is all.


I was a student then as well
by pmcdnd96  (2011-09-14 10:37:11)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

And that talk was delusional. It was then and it is now. We were ranked behing FSU and Nebraska; we didn't want to admit it, but they were playing for the national championship.


Well
by HTownND  (2011-09-14 10:37:11)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

thanks for the perspective, and dose of reality.

Are you suggesting there was no precedent for teams jumping other teams ahead of them, based on bowl results.

See the 77 National Title.

You're full of shit if you think that no one thought we had a chance at the title heading into that Cotton Bowl. A lot of people felt that if we beat A&M and FSU beat Nebraska, the head to head principle from 89 would be used again.

Moreover, we jumped from #5 to #1 in 77 after the bowl game.


And what was different that year?
by pmcdnd96  (2011-09-14 10:37:11)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

I'll tell you - in 1977 we beat the piss out of the number one team in the country in our bowl game. In 1994, we beat a team that was ranked below us.

The number two and four teams also lost their bowl games, enabling us to move up.

The only team that could have claimed a championship was #3 Alabama, who beat #8 OSU. Which do you think was more impressive to voters - a team ranked #5 beating the crap out of a team ranked #1 or a team ranked #3 beating up on a team ranked #8.

Now compare to 1994: FSU was ranked number one and won their game. There's really no chance at winning a national championship when the team ranked number one ahead of you won their game. All of our talk about "precedent" was just wishful thinking. I wanted it to be true as much as you did and I thought the polling was horseshit. But the polls were what they were and there was no way we were going to win that championship.


FSU wasn't #1
by HTownND  (2011-09-14 10:37:11)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Nebraska was.

Moreover, FSU didn't kick the piss out of Nebraska, it was a last second field goal.

Are you really saying we had no case to leapfrog FSU? And that you knew it from the get go?


As unfair as it was ...
by CJC  (2011-09-14 10:37:11)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

the writing was definitely on the wall that the winner of the FSU-Nebraska game was going to win the national championship.

If the voters were going to do the right thing vis-a-vis the head-to-head results, they would have voted Notre Dame ahead of FSU before the bowls. We all know that the voters wanted Bowden to get his first NC if FSU beat Nebraska.

I know that Holtz -- as he well should have -- was talking a good game. I know that many players, managers and other students close to the program believed that wins by ND and FSU would result in Notre Dame being ranked number-one.

But the reality was that it wasn't going to happen. Unfairness aside, the difference between 1977 and 1993 was that every team above Notre Dame in the polls lost in 1977.

By definition, barring a tie (which was what I was rooting for), it was impossible for every team ahead of Notre Dame in 1993 to lose its bowl game.


Did we have a case? Sure
by pmcdnd96  (2011-09-14 10:37:11)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Did I know at the time that the case wouldn't be heard by the voters? Yes, because FSU was ahead of us.


You and CJC make good points
by HTownND  (2011-09-14 10:37:11)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Either way, the idea is the same, it's been a long time since we were in the discussion, late into the season.

It's been flashes, but not much else.


I agree - too few and far between
by pmcdnd96  (2011-09-14 10:37:11)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Both in reference to my good points and to ND's football success.