Position-less Perplex

Coach Ivey has mentioned several times the term “position-less” basketball. Is it a promise, a pipe dream, or, possibly, polymorphic poetry?

Presently, it’s a popular phrase in basketball (especially in the NBA, apparently where Niele picked it up and promoted it), but the truth is that “position-less” basketball goes way back to possibly Don Nelson and “Nellie Ball” in the ’80’s, as part of “point forward” (instead of “point guard”), moving the “center” away from the center, “small ball” or “run-and-gun”. Anyway, it seems that “position-less” may have multiple meanings, but it is characterized by one or more of the following:
1. Spacing
2. The offense needn’t be initiated by a point guard. (Note: This is probably the principal point in position-less basketball, but, I’m not sure that Niele, being a former PG, promotes this principle.)
3. All players are powerful dribblers and ball handlers, as well as proficient in moving without the ball.
4. Emphasis on team movement and passing, read and react, rather than set (“iso”) plays.
5. A “back to the basket” center is often not needed nor included.
6. Perhaps most importantly, any player should be able to guard any opposing player.

Practically everyone agrees that position-less basketball requires players who have high basketball IQ’s, are able to read defenses as well as their teammates, and who must sacrifice their own tendencies for the system to work.

On the other hand, who are we kidding? Positions are still there. The 5 positions are still labeled 1 through 5. There still are “position” coaches, which makes no sense. What do they do? Every roster of every team, including Notre Dame, labels each player by position. Every player knows their position and role.

So, is position-less basketball palpable, or is it pretty much positional basketball, where the team likes to push the fast break?

One last thing, could you please begin your (responding) post with a word that begins with “P”?

Perhaps a pita overdose prevented you from postulating point

seven which would be: players who can score efficiently inside and outside, some with longer shooting range than others.

My own line-up preference is a reliable primary ballhandler to direct the offense, a strong low post player to anchor the defense, and three versatile (perhaps "interchangeable", rather than "position-less") players who can do some of everything needed to win, with Sonia Citron as a prime example of the latter.

Pickles. I Just Had My First of the Season....

..I bring that up to take care of the P requirement and that's about it.
Besides, my favorite peanut butter was just recalled. Damn, back to Skippy.

Very much recall Niele opining (or MPG paraphrasing Niele) that she likes four interchangeable players around a post. Well, easy to say when one of those has PG skills like Olivia. And given that she's bird-dogging Hannah Hidalgo, Lisa Thompson, etc., I think Niele will always make sure one of these four is a lead guard.

That said, that leaves three players to mix and match, with Sonia -- as you point out -- being exhibit A. Players like Emma Risch, Olivia Olson and Jadyn Donovan could very much be similar.

I read and accept many of NDMike's points. Coaches still have to teach/perfect/coach certain skills regardless of what you call the position.

Hmm...another pickle?

Lisa Thompson has released her Final Six without ND on it.

The Chosen Six are BC, DePaul, FSU, the two best known MSUs, and NC State.

Jasmine Brown is a 2023 combo guard who should be on ND's radar. She is quick and strong.

Hmm. That Could Be an Indication that Mutual Interest...

... had waned since Ms. Thompson was given an offer. Could be on Ms. Thompson's part (maybe the concept of playing behind Olivia Miles for two years didn't appeal to her). Or perhaps ND decided to focus on Hannah Hidalgo or other prospects such as Zoe Brooks or Jasmine Brown, whom MPG just brought up and is on our recruiting report.

Will be interested to see focus of Niele and Michaela going forward.

Thanks for bringing up...I've changed her status on the Recruiting Report.

pfft...I hate that term.

Mostly because it's a bit of a misnomer and means something different to different people - including coaches. And then it leads to people getting pissed because, for example, Sam isn't playing enough even though the coach says she prefers positionless basketball.

The only thing that matters is what it means to the coach and his or her ability to articulate the vision. Suffice to say, it's a way of saying that a coach is trying to do something other than your traditional rigid post-up offense. But a team still needs players on the court capable of doing traditional things. Like defending the post for example. Positionless doesn't mean that every player defends every position. Each player will have an assignment. And the team will have responsibilities if, for example, an Olivia gets caught defending Aliyah Boston on a switch.

A team of 5 Sonia Citrons might a nightmare to try and defend in a 5-out offense. But if the other team has a post or two, then one or two of those Sonias will have the assignment to defend the player. To your question about coaching, the position coach is obviously there to coach those fundamentals and assignments.

"Positionless" could also be more of a 4 around 1 where ND has four ball handlers and perimeter players around a post like Ebo. Niele's vision might be to have any of the other four (including a Maddy) bring the ball up the court. But that's most certainly not going to be Ebo.

At any rate, I think the term is dumb. Every player has defined roles, responsibilities and assignments. They may or may not be described as 1-5.

Permit me to say, "Bravo"

We have a lot of basketball expertise on the Bench and this is exactly what I hoped for. Thanks for this post. I love "The only thing that matters is what it means to the coach and his or her ability to articulate the vision." That sounds just about perfect to me, along with your other points. Thanks.

I look forward to other points of view.

Bravo for the post and Bravo for the first Bravo. *

Point of order: Posting without reading is perilous. *