Sedona to Oregon
by skydigg88 (2019-07-05 22:26:28)

Unfortunately she’s a Duck!


I blame Davie
by drmurray  (2019-07-07 08:41:55)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

That bastard!


"Vengeance is mine, I will repay", September 14, 2019. *
by hibernianangst  (2019-07-07 17:51:34)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


Not A Surprise *
by Domer65  (2019-07-06 07:18:02)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


But, there seems to be a problem. (link)
by Tim Kelley  (2019-07-06 13:52:49)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


Why does everyone think the sky is falling?
by Murcer68  (2019-07-06 14:19:04)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

7 Final Fours and 6 Title Game appearance in 9 years, yet many people think the world is ending. We should be able to get any recruit we want? Well, life doesn't work that way. UConn is starting to figure that out. No title game appearances in 3 entire years for them...heaven forbid. I like to be thankful for what we have and think the constant "woe is me" is a bit too much.


Well
by DavidAddison  (2019-07-06 15:44:21)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Not hard to say you are looking into the rear view mirror. Gotta worry about what’s ahead, and currently things don’t look very rosey.


The best way to predict performance is past success
by Murcer68  (2019-07-06 17:44:17)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

At least that's what they keep telling me at work LOL. But seriously, look at our roster - not very bad all things considered. Some ND WBB fans have become spoiled Chicken Littles who only seem to be happy when they are worrying about the future.


The truth is other programs have elevated their talent
by 2ndstreeter  (2019-07-08 21:53:40)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

It’s called parity and the past performance means little in that reality. It’s like falling behind in an arms race, doesn’t take long to be outgunned and falling back into the pack.

Exhibit A: ND football since the mid ‘90’s


Ye of little faith
by Murcer68  (2019-07-09 17:08:02)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

You could have said the same thing after the disaster at Louisville two years ago. How have the last year and a half played out?


No one questioning talent - its numbers and depth
by NDoggie78  (2019-07-06 23:22:13)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Especially under the basket. We have only 1 true post player and only one big with experience. And we currently don’t have enough players to even scrimmage. Recent recruiting and transfers and early WNBA have killed us


Fans are concerned because we are seeking titles, not S16
by btd  (2019-07-06 21:17:29)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

This team has a lot of talent and the FR-JR on the team are going to see one or more F4's again. The issue/debate is this specific season coming up:

1) Short of a miracle, this team does not have the component parts to make a F4 run.

They will make the NCAA and probably even find a way into the S16 -- but to this board, that's not considered a great year. With some key transfers -- we possibly could have taken it up another notch and skipped the rebuilding year.

2) They flat out do not have enough forwards on the team -- independent of skills or experience.

3) We had zero returning starters -- and then lost 2 of the 6 returning playuers we did have.

4) We did get two transfers to help plug some gaps -- but one of them has missed two seasons with injuries and is a wildcard if she actually will play at ND / break that trend

5) We have to have two freshman come in and be instant superstars at the level of Lloyd and Skylar to have any shot in hell of being a Top 5 level team.

Good news is Lloyd and Skylar did indeed do that -- so some have before. Bad neww is:

a) They BOTH didn't do it the same year
b) Neither of them were FR on a team that had zero returning starters
c) The #1 pick in the WNBA draft this year didn't follow that same path her freshman year. She was good for a FR, but she wasn't a super star from day one -- like we now need

We have two forwards that are long term projects -- that now need to be more than just average for us to hang with any top 5 level team. Top 5 level teams will have the balance we lack on our roster right now. Unlike our title year -- we don't have 5 WNBA draft picks that are SO or JR returning starters to fall back on to overcome a roster that's out of whack.

So, the sky isn't falling longer term. The sky did just fall in the short term because realistically we just lost our final shot at getting an instant impact forward to plug into our roster and give increased hope we can skip over the rebuilding phase this season.

It isn't hopeless though. There is a non-zero chance the 8 players we do have -- all or which were major stars coming into ND / their original college choice -- will jell very early, none will get injured, the freshman will come out of the gate on fire, and the two forwards will play at an elite level this year.


i agree with
by BB Junky  (2019-07-07 21:12:08)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

what you are saying. Its not being negative or "sky is falling" attitude. Its realistic. If you cant see the talent drain from transfers and "missed recruiting targets" results then you just aren't paying attention. Next years team will not be on the level we have come to expect, its just reality. However this coaching staff has kept this program at the top for a long time. They will adjust and figure out why we are having some issues.
I believe the fan base is intelligent and supportive and will understand the first rebuild in many years at ND.


Kelly Graves is one heckuva salesman. *
by Orangutan  (2019-07-06 00:04:10)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


So much for an all female role model staff. *
by hibernianangst  (2019-07-06 08:45:05)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


I think that comment will bite her in the ass. *
by supernd  (2019-07-07 10:29:51)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


Muffet wanted strong independent women, I think..
by GoIrish!  (2019-07-06 11:39:55)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

it all started with Reimer, that worked out well


Douche comment *
by Goirish01  (2019-07-07 15:41:18)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


just the truth *
by GoIrish!  (2019-07-07 18:55:10)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


It isn't 1988 anymore
by Murcer68  (2019-07-07 19:04:11)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Women can have opinions in today's America and it won't always be held against them.


In my world they could have opinions back ..
by GoIrish!  (2019-07-07 19:09:42)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

then too. However, when you have an opinion such as wearing "I can't breathe T shirts" or state you will never hire a male coach, by the way the most ridiculous story I've ever heard that a male coach was recommended to her and he did not turn out to be very good, it's the worst excuse I've ever heard. Hell that could be said by all coach's on all sexes. If she doesn't want to hire a male coach, believe it or not I have no problem with it. But come up with a better story than that or even better don't publily say it and just don't hire one. I have the greatest respect for Coach McGraw and what she has accomplished. However, no one is immune to criticism, male or female when you make contraversial statements. As you said everyone is entitled to have an opinion. Just because I don't agree, with everything she has said doesn't mean I'm incorrect either. Don't hold my opinion against me. LOL


You probably like the phrase "Just shut up and dribble."
by Murcer68  (2019-07-07 19:36:02)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

I don't. If our women's bb coach sees widespread discrimination and unfair treatment, I'm great with her pointing it out. Do you think Kara Lawson or Lindsay Gottlieb have NBA jobs without Muffet bringing the problem to light? What Muffet said means something.


well thank goodness the NBA has a different hiring
by GoIrish!  (2019-07-07 19:42:03)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

practice than Muffet then, I still not sure what you think was wrong with my post. You are the one who keeps insinuating that I have something against women sports. Never said it, when you voice an opinion that is contraversial you lead yourself open for criticism. If Geno has said he would not hire another woman's coach ESPN would still be doing stories on him. And you know it's the truth


You hit the nail on the head. MM made a mistake imo. *
by 2ndstreeter  (2019-07-09 09:17:39)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


There are Still Only 200 Minutes In a Game...
by dillon77  (2019-07-05 23:04:18)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

..and Oregon has a very full roster (on all fronts), including these folks on the front line: Dugalic, Prince, Cochrane, Watson and the younger Sabally, who herself missed a year due to injury. I'm guessing most of these Oregon players/commits are looking for playing time to get to the next level, as well.

Yes, they probably all believe this will work out for them given their current status, but I've got to think once rotations are established, you'll start seeing a reverse flow, which seems to be the way in today's "transfer portal" enabled world.

That said, good luck to Sedona...

OK Irish, let's put all effort into getting Mik Vaughn, Danielle Cosgrove and our jack-of-all-trades (by necessity), Sam Brunelle, ready for the 2019-20 season.

And on the recruiting front, I'll be very interested to see what efforts are made toward other 2020 posts/forwards. And again in 2021.


Something just doesn't seem right.
by hibernianangst  (2019-07-05 22:50:45)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Oregon, really.


I am incredibly disappointed. With that said, we move on.
by RISteve  (2019-07-06 11:19:31)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

As they say, onward and upward.

Many other jewels out there, let’s hope we can attract and sign a few of them.

The good news- The Evil Empire does not get her either


Maybe there is a lot of negative ND recruiting going on
by airedaleman  (2019-07-06 07:58:37)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

at Oregon. Sure hope there is not an earthquake in that part of the country.


Just for Your Info
by hempfield75  (2019-07-06 09:11:52)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

We are sitting on a major fault..San Andreas..we do get small ones
periodically..I am curious to if Graves sits recruits up that has ND
interest with Boley and how much negative recruiting she does. With you,
I can not believe we have lost everyone recruiting match ups with Oregon.
Oregon is a good school with a good WBB program. But one on one we
would win just about every category. If you use the old but common pros
and cons system. We should beat just about every school out there. Of
course that is just my humble opinion.

...You can not tell me they have room for another player like maybe a guard
by the name of Clark. If they get her. Then bells should go off.

SEG/Chief


She simply has to say she switched to Oregon. That's
by btd  (2019-07-06 21:26:49)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

not by definition negative recruiting. She tells them she went to ND, left to play at Oregon, started last year, loves it at Oregon and they are loaded with the #1 pick for the next WNBA on their team.

That's not negative recruiting against ND. However, someone down to ND v Oregon hearing that will infer on their own that something caused her to leave ND. You can let people do their own negative recruiting simply by only stating the positive side of an equation.

IMO -- the real reason Oregon is loading up this year is becuase of their PG. Recruits -- especially transfers with limited years left -- want an immediate title shot. Oregon is 99% likely to make the F4 and will be at least an odds on favorite to make the finals.

Baylor and UConn are the other two teams that are highly likely to be in the final four.

ND has a tough sell today against that. With or without the transfers we missed out on, ND is a longshot to make a F4 this season and instead is selling "we have history on our side, have a fantastic young roster and pipeline, and will be in the F4 two or more times the next four years."

That's a good message for a high school junior or senior. It is a good message for a lot of transfers (it worked on two) but it cannot compete with "we are 99%+ a lock to be in the final four this year."


Good Post Made Sense Good Job *
by hempfield75  (2019-07-07 03:39:39)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


Do not get it
by Joeyt28  (2019-07-05 22:50:29)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Don’t see how they continue to recruit so well. Must be overloaded


We will get Caitlin Clark and Olivia Myles...IMO.
by Irish75  (2019-07-05 23:31:30)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

It’s tough not getting Prince but her mother was raving about the Oregon visit, so I’m disappointed but not surprised.

If we do land Clark and then Myles, another string of Final Four runs is on the horizon.

And I’m guessing Hailey Van Lith to Baylor. I don’t know where else is left for her.




I am not worried
by hempfield75  (2019-07-06 02:42:47)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

2020 to 2022 seem to be loaded at the wing and post positions. Quite a few
from our own back yard in Indiana. Off the top of my head you have deBerry
and I believe the post from Colorado is Betts. Please correct me if I have
her name wrong. You have Patterson, Reynolds and of course quite a few
tall guards. Next year we could take the top 3 players in Fudd, Miles and
deBerry. Do not forget about Destiny Adams.

...Now do we go after Maddy? I would.

...One last point. We have some great tall athletic guards. If Mik and
Danielle can keep the 4 and 5's busy. We can use our athletic guards to
sneak in for the rebounds. We all remember the job Jackie did.

...Sorry one last point. Like the rest of the board I am curious how
Oregon can get all these players. They really do not have the history.
Now the question with Oregon will be is to how many will stay and which
ones will transfer. Eventually this style of recruiting could come back
and hurt Oregon. I am also curious to what they are selling these recruits.
Especially all the post they are recruiting.

...If I was ND I would go back and make contact with Watson and gently
bring to her attention the wall she will be fighting against just for
playing time. She has not signed yet. About time we take one from Oregon.

...They will not get Clark...The way Oregon is recruiting reminds me of
how some football coaches recruit. They do not always just recruit for
their need but to ensure other schools do not get them.

...Now I am finished.

SEG/Chief


Need bigs though
by Joeyt28  (2019-07-05 23:34:49)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Not sure only Marshall will cut it.


Yes we do. *
by Irish75  (2019-07-05 23:36:12)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


Here's Some Possible 2020 Bigs Still Not Verbally Committed.
by dillon77  (2019-07-06 09:07:07)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

I put this list together a few weeks ago, but it's still relevant (particularly to the Irish) right now. I've got no idea if the Irish are looking at any of these players, but with three major AAU Tourneys coming up (one at Indy as I type), here's a chance to see some of them and/or other post prospects in 2020, 2021 and 2022.

These, once again are all 2020 prospects: someone who could join Nat Marshall.

- Kamilla Cardoso (HG 5, PN 5), 6'5" Post from Brazil, living in Tennessee. Tall, athletic, still raw around the edges. Rumored to be looking at SEC teams, but UConn board is also keen. (Seems to have a protected twitter account)
- Dalayah Daniels (HG 15, PN 15), 6'4" forward from Seattle, WA. Forward with the proverbial guard skills and is looking for a coach/system that can let that show. Has also been with different HS coaches every year so looking for stability. Louisville had a home visit with her. Feels like a Nat Marshall type of skill set, so might look for more complementary player. (Another protected twitter account).
- Cameron Williams (HG 26, PN 65) 6'2" Post who helped lead Whitney Young to the Chicago City Championship. She's a lefty who usually goes face-up, but also has a growing "back to the basket" game, according to HG's Olson. (Retweeted MM's statement on Women's opportunities. Has posted offers from Penn State, Texas Tech and UVA.)
- De'Yona Gaston (HG 34, PN 18), a 6'2" forward from Pearland, Texas. If that sounds familiar, its Brianna Turner's hometown. Gaston's write-ups sound familiar: tall, athletic, good rebounder, runs the floor well. (No insights into colleges that I could see, but retweeted Sedona Prince's decision.)
- Sakima Walker (HG 53, PN ), 6'4" center from Columbus Africentric HS in Ohio who played with Jordon Horston. Supposedly very good athlete who is just tapping the surface offensively. (Scan of twitter sees offers from James Madison, Xavier, West Virginia and Minnesota.)
- Jayla Kelly (#99 in HG), a 6'3" Post from St. Louis, MO. Has been referenced in conjunction with ND awhile ago, but not much seen since. Rugged rebounder and defender in the paint. (According to twitter, has has had home visits from Missouri, Purdue, Vanderbilt, St. Louis. Had home visit from and took OV to Northwestern.
Unofficials to to Louisville, Kansas State and Oklahoma.

Not rated, but known....

- Erika Porter, 6'3" forward from Notre Dame High School in New Jersey. Is also playing with Exodus NYC, AAU team of Nat Marshall and Destiny Adams, a hot 2021 prospect from the Shore. Porter comes highly rated by "Tiny" Green, longtime purveyor of Girls Hoops on the Jersey Shore. He's made Porter an "unofficial" shore player, which is a big kudo (for him). Somewhat raw player who could help in the lane while learning more technical skills.


Is it just me or does Daniels sound like a perfect fit
by maverick  (2019-07-06 11:33:19)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

skill wise. Are we actively recruiting her?


Daniels Does Seem to be a Good Fit
by hempfield75  (2019-07-06 12:59:45)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

But I m partial to Williams out of Chicago. Almost seems like a Bri clone.

SEG/Chief


A lot of Good Info and Thanks. There i s a few I
by hempfield75  (2019-07-06 09:24:11)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

would take a strong look at. Don't know what is on MM's mind at this point.

SEG/Chief