How many BIGS slipped away. How many never developed.

Ultimately, the recruiting of players is the head coach's responsibility. He/She sets the tone in what kind of player that they want and, of course, makes the ultimte decision on whether to pursue, offer, etc.

But then, the day-to-day responsibility is up to the AC that is the in charge for overall recruiting. For the greater part of this decade, that happened to be Niele Ivey who is now, of course, the head coach.
And for the year that she was with the Memphis Grizzlies, guess what assistant was in charge of overall recruiting? Yup, Beth Morgan Cunningham, assisted by Michaela Mabrey.

This is what Carol's bio reads as to her responsibilities:
"Throughout her tenure at Notre Dame, Owens has focused on working with the Fighting Irish post players, while also assisting with the program’s nationally-ranked recruiting efforts (Notre Dame has attracted 24 consecutive top-20 recruiting classes from 1997-2020 something only two other schools achieved)."

So does she look and make suggestions for posts? Or go out to scout ones that Muffet, Neile, Beth and/or Mike like? Sure. But shes's specifically not in charge of recruiting.

As Orangutan brought up, ND fans are not alone in thinking that the Irish can't recruit tall players. The Boneyard was in arms when after Steph Dolson, only O N-O came aboard via the recruiting angle, augmented by transfers like Azura Stevens. They couldn't even get decent back-ups, like Koko.

Baylor has specialized at finding Top Ten and Top 25 prospects, while teams like Oregon State also look for bigs. Up to now, Scott Rueck was a specialist at developing gems. That was noticed and now he's getting gems like Kennedy Brown, Taylor Jones and Taya Corosdale. And, of course, South Carolina, with A'ja Wilson, Alaina Coates and, now Aliyah Boston.

Have the Irish had some misses since Brianna Turner in 2014? Yes, the major one was going whole hog for Aliyah Boston -- as did UConn -- at the expense of other posts/forwards with known interest in ND like 1st team B1G forward, Naz Hilmon or Canadian jumper Laeticia Amihere. The former was a miss IMO, while the latter may have been providential: she was rated behind Boston, didn't want to wait and went to S. Carolina where she's ironically, the back-up to Boston. And, perhaps, not fully recovered from her ACL of a few years back.

As for our coach not being on her coaching game, I think Kayo and Orangutan have pointed out how well CO has done with Koko and Kat. And Shepard was starting to look like a wash her sophomore year at Nebraska, launching three's in blow-out losses. Yes, she came to ND determined to make up for lost time, but guess who helped her do that?

Bri's progress was stymied by injuries, it must be acknowledged, but she still had an outstanding ND career. And in her first season as a professional, she broke into the starting line-up next to Brittany Griner, then went down to Australia and was named first team all-league. And who was signed a few games into the year for an injury replacement and started every game? Kat Westbeld.

Would people have liked to see her develop a better mid-range jumper? Sure, but players are who they are and Bri has numerous other strengths and talents that no one has.

And think of other posts she's had during ND's great runs: future pro's like Dev Peters and Natalie Achonwa to very adept collegiate players like Markesha Wright and Ariel Braker, both of whom -- incidentally -- are now college post coaches.

At some point, CO will retire as well and perhaps one of her charges or someone like Melissa D'Amico (who was here while CO has HCing at Northern Illinois) will take over the posts. Until then, I think we're pretty darn lucky to have her.

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BTW, ND may have targeted a 2021 post we don't know of yet (but it's doubtful) or have a transfer in mind. But the gut consensus is they will go hard -- very hard -- after posts to join Nat Marshall in 2022. Just so happens most of that classes' top-rated players are posts/forwards, including Lauren Betts, Ayanna Patterson (offered), Janiah Barker and Timea Gardiner. All but Patterson played on the U.S.A. team in Chile with Miles and Citron.

And guess who flew down to watch themn all? Yup. Carol Owens.

And I question how much improvement we've seen recently from players at that position. We lucked into an already polished post player with Jess.

And even though Shepard was pretty darned good when she arrived, she added 29 points to her shooting percentage from junior to senior seasons and improved from 8.1 rebounds per game to 10.3 even though ND's #1 career rebounder was added to the lineup for Shepard's second season at ND.

I'm not sure what you're questioning.

Turner might be the most highly-rated post player ND has ever successfully recruited. She was the 2014 Gatorade High School Athlete of the Year, she was ranked as the #2 recruit in the country by Hoopgurlz (ESPNW), trailing only A'ja Wilson. She was (and is) an immensely talented player who had her ups and downs at ND because of injuries.

She played much of her early years at ND with an injured shoulder, tore her ACL, then had continued shoulder issues. Her excellent play late in her career came at a time when she was finally healthy. We'll never know, but without her injuries, Turner may have been as good a player as the program has ever seen.

None of this is offered as a criticism of Carol Owens. I don't pretend to know how effectively she develops post players. I just think in Turner's case, it's likely that good health had more to do with her late success than coach-driven development. The talent was already there.

There is still only one basketball. Having Jess there meant sharing points and rebounds her last season. She also had to change her game from what would have been the focal point underneath to working with Jess.

I don't think the WNBA can afford to draft on potential, so being the #11 pick overall tells you what they think of her skills regardless of her stats

Yes on Westbeld.

2014-15: 13.8 points, 7.9 rebounds, 65.2%, 2.5 blocks, 0.33 assist/turnover

2015-16: 14.6 points, 7.3 rebounds, 59.3%, 3.0 blocks, 0.66 assist/turnover... played most of the season in pain with a shoulder that required offseason surgery

2016-17: 15.3 points, 7.1 rebounds, 61.9%, 2.5 blocks, 0.58 assist/turnover... cleared to work out just before practice started, wasn't at full strength until mid-January; ACL tear in her final game

2018-19: 14.4 points, 7.8 rebounds, 63.1%, 2.8 blocks, 1.1 assist/turnover

Turner's stats were steady throughout her career except in one area - handling the ball in an offense that runs through its post players. She reduced turnovers each season while tripling her yearly assists over the course of her career. That jibes with what I observed watching her career. She was a far more polished all-around player at the end of her college career.

of the 2017 season. In that NCAA contest vs Purdue, she had taken over the game right before the ACL injury. If Bianna had stayed healthy, I have no doubt that the Irish would have made the Final Four and had a good shot at the title.

Not talking just stats. Turner was same player as when she arrived, skill wise. My opinion. Thats what I base on. Did she improve? Sure they all do with training and coaching. Skills were not expanded. Jess just had a huge year with an outstanding group. She was polished coming in.

...except for ball handling and passing (which ain't trivial). My opinion backed up with supporting data.

it, this has been a guard dominated offense - Arike, Diggs, Lloyd, McBride, and probably many more that I can’t think of. We don’t need bigs to develop into scorers, need a big to play sound defense and clean up the boards. Not sure we have the guard on the roster that can dominate every night, but I’m confident with what we have coming in the future, we’re going to get there

Without Ruth Riley, no '01 championship.
Without Jess Shepard, no '18 championship.

Elite post play is consistently what wins championships in the league. I love MM but she never seemed to understand that recruiting post players is paramount to success. She was obsessed - truly obsessed - with recruiting guards. This is how Sam Brunelle wound up playing the four this past season when she would have been much better on the wing.

You have to be obsessed with post players to remember the 2018 championship that way.

Jess was excellent but I recall Jackie torching UConn and Arike's buzzer beaters far more strongly.

Sam is a 4 through and through. She's doesn't have the speed or ball handling required of a full-time wing.

Her FT shooting remained spotty until senior year and even then, as I recall, she was shaky until later in the year and the NCAA's. Great player, no doubt. But never an offensive force in the half court so much, but an excellent scorer off lobs, the break and offensive rebounds.

Better than Marina Mabrey's 69.4%.

Turner never really developed an offensive repertoire at ND.

But I think she gets a little bit of a pass because of the ACL injury that knocked her out for a season.

Westbeld and Nelson improved tremendously. Shepard played much better at ND than she had at Nebraska.

Almost every fan base complains of lacking enough good bigs. Baylor is pretty much the only clear exception. There just aren't many young ladies that are 6'3+ and can actually play.

Also, we just recruited a 6'3 HS All-American and another 6'5 player ranked in the top-50.

Post recruiting isn't solely or even primarily Owens' responsibility but even if it was we just brought in some very talented recruits.