What is there that would be good for MLS but bad for soccer in the U.S. as a whole?
From my POV, the problem is much more the youth and amateur types.
The MLS has greatly improved the >other< CONCACAF nations. That hurts US Soccer right off the bat (see Trinidad and Tabago). The USMNT players who play in MLS don't improve which drags us down.
There was also a time when it was anathema for US Internationals to play in the USA rather than to hone their skills against the top players in Europe. That all changed when Landon, Bradley, Deuce, Howard, and others "came home" to cushy little MLS spots. There was a time when Bradley and Klinsmann both told players they would not be considered if they weren't playing somewhere other than MLS. All of a sudden, that changed. I'm guessing Sunil and Don Garber had something to do with that.
MLS now has its grubby hands in the Development Academy system. I know for the Chicago Fire, their youth team brings in a TON of money to the club. Now, about 10 years after the MLS teams got in the DA game, we find ourselves NOT QUALIFYING for a World Cup and we have a "lost generation" of players. Hmmmm.... I wonder if there's any coincidence there.
Interestingly, when the DA system began, they left the girls "out in the cold". During that time, the USWNT qualifies for World Cups, wins World Cups, qualifies for Olympics, and wins Olympics. That doesn't happen on the men's side. Luckily for the ladies, they've not got them in the corrupt and ridiculous DA system as well. When the US stops its dominance, many apologists will just say "the rest of the world is getting better".
MLS fights as hard as it can against NASL and USSL and stands in opposition of promotion and relegation. I'm not a pro/rel fan because I do believe it has unintended outcomes that doen't work too well within a land as large as America, however, the MLS contingent squashes those other two leagues.
And last but not least is the incestuous relationship of Don Garber, Sunil Gulati, Soccer United Marketing, MLS, and the USMNT/USWNT. It is a damn travesty and if the general populace cared more about soccer, it might be the biggest scandal in all of American sports.
last summer which our then-8th grader attended (suburban MKE). They are definitely trying to get their brand out there.
Only one in the area still affiliated with an MLS club.
that they do with rec-league outreach is amazing. They offer tons of services to local rec leagues and even to local clubs. They are nice people. That doesn't change the fact that their suburban C teams are revenue stream from which no kids will ever develop!
root problem still simply pay to play?
If the MLS teams were merely using DAs as cash cows, wouldn't the unaffiliated DAs routinely kick their asses and eventually be considered more elite? Is that actually the case?
My impression has been that MLS DAs are a net positive because they have expanded the player pool and raised the profile of the DAs. I'm a pretty casual observer, so I could be wrong.
Atl United mostly dominates unaffliliated DA's and during the summer re-stocks with the best from the other DA's. Then again most MLS clubs probably don't have Arthur Blank bankrolling them.
Friend of my brother has a son in an unaffiliated DA, and he said that the Union Academy team is a cut above.
Rapids have more teams in U8 and below but by U10 all the better players have moved elsewhere.
I think MLS involvement is the least of the problems. It's a spot where I think MLS might actually do some good, actually, unless they decide they'd rather try to shut out competition vs. expanding their talent pool and driving a greater ability to compete with foreign leagues.
is that the MLS teams view it as a profit center and not an actual way to develop talent.
I don't think MLS can be blamed for inadequate youth development. The comparison of the mens and womens national teams is flawed in my view by vasty different resources most of the rest of the world places in each of those two areas. And as other countries have started to pay a little more attention to the women's game, we haven't been so dominant (e.g. flameout at the 2016 Olympics).
And I think the help the MLS has given other CONCACAF teams by providing a place for their players to play professionally played way more of a role in the US not qualifying than any supposed failure of the DA system. I never quite understood how the DA was supposed to be worse than what preceded it.
None of this argues against a much cleaner separation of the National Teams from MLS, as their interests aren't always aligned. But the idea the DA ruined youth boys development but the girls are just fine because they haven't had DA never made any sense to me.
The initial inquiry was about why MLS having so many votes is detrimental to US Soccer. I'm pretty sure most folks would agree that MLS does not have the best interests of soccer out ahead of its own interests and MLS's interests don't align well with international US Soccer or youth development.
MLS may not be to solely blame for pay to play but it certainly benefits massively from it.
so that player development costs for the players are minimal.
MLS has to get on board with international transfer fee rules.
I agree 100%, but the usual response is the payback to the youth clubs that developed players is illegal in the US, especially related to minors. I think that's a critical piece of how other systems work.
MLS refuses to pay solidarity fees to youth programs.
US Soccer claims it can't force MLS to pay the FIFA solidarity fee due to anti-trust concerns.
Of course MLS and USSF have all sorts of conflicts of interest on this and other issues.
Are you saying USSF should force MLS to pay solidarity fees to youth programs, and that the legal issues aren't real? I also have read issues about labor laws and requiring solidarity payments.
I agree what is good for developing future USMNT players is not necessarily what's good for MLS so USSF and MLS should be much more cleanly separated than they are now. I just haven't seen an actual solution for pay to play regardless of MLS.
USSF is the governing body in the United States and is the US's representative federation in FIFA. It has a responsibility to enforce FIFA transfer rules.
I see nothing inherently illegal with solidarity fees.
Here is one reason how what is good for MLS is not good for US Soccer as a whole:
I think this is ruining the ability to develop talent in more skilled leagues abroad. It can be used for good by giving top Europe talent contracts after their best years, a la Henry or Dempsey, but it ruins the ability for young talent like Jordan Morris from going abroad and actually becoming better because instead of $1M at Werder Bremen, he can just play at home for the same without working as hard....which is where our USMNT suffers because the talent which used to develop at Fulham and Roma (like Dempsey and Bradley) is lured into staying home.
This is how MLS and Don Garber are not good for the USMNT. They are indeed doing some things well, but they only care about $$ and keeping that $$ in the MLS and not risking that for the benefit of the USMNT.
And Mr. Wednesday, I'm not saying your points about youth areas aren't as important, perhaps they are more important, but MLS and USMNT values are not perfectly aligned. In the end UNMNT wants to succeed (which of course begets $$$), but MLS just wants butts in the seats, TV contracts and merch sold.
Though handling of higher-end U.S. players is more a general divergence than something within the USSF's orbit—and in a sense, I'd also argue that it's a positive for U.S. soccer in the longer term, because it can expand the pool by making soccer a more attractive sport (you can earn the big bucks without having to go abroad to do it).
Your last point is very true, but in the 4 to 8 to 12 years, the "longer term" before that really happens where the talent catches up with the pay, is why that argument means complacency with not qualifying for the World Cup...which to me is the point of USSF and all National Teams.
Conversely, the Bundesliga I and II and DFB in Germany see a WC win as the end-all for their actions. MLS isn't quite on board in the same way if they wait for the talent to catch up to the pay.