How do you link that picture and call it two footed?
by NDMike2001 (2019-01-03 23:48:39)

In reply to: A nit  posted by HTownND


I never said it wasn't dangerous. Nor bullshit. I said it was textbook yellow.

My discussion of the studs is in reference to him calling it nearly identical tackles. They were entirely different. And the studs up being the clear and obvious distinction. The distinction in which I stated the rules tend to call that a red. But I nonetheless think was a yellow in this instance since Mo was quick enough to avoid the contact.


You misunderstood.
by tex29  (2019-01-03 23:54:50)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

I never meant to suggest the tackles were identical in every respect. I acknowledged from the beginning that Kompany’s studs were up. What I’m saying is the tackles were exactly the same in terms of their recklessness and potential for injury—which means they each could have been given red cards. As HTown says, you don’t have to have studs up to get red carded for a dangerous challenge.

As for whether it was two footed, it wasn’t initially. But Lovren swept his other foot through at the end and absolutely wrecked Aguero.


On the last sentence
by HTownND  (2019-01-04 14:20:40)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Exactly.

That sweep through was the problem.

And to be clear, I wouldn’t have called it red, but I would not have been surprised if they had.


Yes, soccer is a dangerous sport.
by NDMike2001  (2019-01-04 00:08:18)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Lovren's was a proper challenge that missed the ball. He's looking at the ball. He's alongside Aguero. He lunges towards the ball with one foot, studs pointing directly to the ground. He misses. Catches Aguero. Yes violently. Thus a yellow card.



Kompany lunges directly towards Salah. Studs up. Both are violent actions. One is proper form. The other is not.

By the book, Lovren's tackle is a fair one if he wins the ball. It's not even a foul. He misses, he gets yellow. By the same book Kompany earns red because it was never a proper tackle...whether he won the ball or not. That's where I disagree with the rule. I think it's a yellow if the contact is avoided.


Lovren didn’t go for the ball. He didn’t get anywhere close
by tex29  (2019-01-04 00:16:22)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

to the ball. The rules don’t allow you to wipe out someone’s legs with a challenge that late. You said yourself it was a “tactical foul.” In other words, you admitted he had no intention of getting the ball—he intended to foul to stop Aguero’s run. People commit “tactical fouls” all the time. But they are usually holds, pushes, less dangerous trips, etc.

You now act as if Lovren was unfortunate to just barely mistime an otherwise proper challenge. Horseshit. He intended to wipe out Aguero, and that’s exactly what he did. It was a reckless challenge with great potential for injury, regardless of whether his studs were up.


Why is it so difficult to comprehend?
by NDMike2001  (2019-01-04 07:54:33)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

It's all captured right there in the picture. Yes it's tactical insofar as the point is to stop the counter. If you foul, so be it. Take the card and go on. A pull back is a completely different tactical foul not involving a tackle at all.

And now you are calling it "late." You do not seem to understand the rules. That is obviously not a late challenge. There is no argument for that at all. None. Zip. Zero.

This is a tackle. It's proper form. He didnt win the ball. Foul. Card. End of story.

Clearly we dont agree. You think that proper tackles that are dangerous should be red. I think that improper tackles that are dangerous should be red.


I fear you are the one struggling with comprehension.
by tex29  (2019-01-04 08:09:12)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

I never said it should be red. Not once. I said it *could* have been red—just like Kompany’s *could* have been red. I thought *both* tackles were properly yellow.

And you miss the whole point of my argument. The problem with Lovren’s tackle wasn’t his pre-contact form; it was that he slid through someone’s legs with absolutely no intention of getting the ball. It’s one thing to have a potentially dangerous tackle where the intent is to get the ball. It’s a whole different kind of tackle—regardless of the technique used to execute it—when the target is the player rather than the ball.

If you can’t see that—and judging from this conversation, you can’t—then there is nothing left to say. You can have the last word, because we fundamentally have a different view of the rules.


The problem is that you changed the argument.
by NDMike2001  (2019-01-04 09:01:41)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

And never acknowledged mine. I acknowledged that you believe that the inherently dangerous tackle makes it red (or possibly red) just like Kompany's. You said Kompany's studs may have been a little higher. Then you also called it late. Then you said he never intended to go for the ball.

1. It's not a late challenge. That's indisputable.
2. His studs are not up. At all.
3. There's a picture of him looking directly at the ball while lunging directly at it. Not sure how you can claim he's not going for it.
4. Sliding through legs. There's nothing in the rules against it. Proper tackles go through the legs all the time and never get called. Hell, James Milner completely upended Neymar in the Champions league this year. I think he may have done the same to Sterling a year or so ago. Proper challenge, through the legs. No foul was even called. However, if you miss the ball, you are going to see yellow.
5. That leaves intent. You believe that he has intent to be going for Aguero and take out his legs. I believe that the intent is obvious. He's making a tactical foul going for the ball.

Where we disagree is with Kompany. You are trying to draw a connection between a discretionary/judgment call above with his definitive situation. Kompany's tackle was improper by the book. There's no judgment call to make there regarding intent or anything. It doesn't matter if he's going for the ball or not. He's studs up to the leg. That's a red card by the book. And it's my OPINION that there should be some discretion where the contact was avoided and a red could spoil a wonderful match. That's an unwritten rule, and one that I believe was probably the underlying reason why red wasn't given.