Looks like Henderson will have to pull a John Terry.
by NDBass (2020-07-10 11:44:52)

Not great timing for a season ending knee injury. Points record attempt will be a little tougher. Good news is that no surgery is required and he should be ready for the start of next season. And Klopp has already confirmed he will be lifting the trophy.


I wish they weren't chasing accolades.
by NDMike2001  (2020-07-11 03:37:50)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

With nothing but records and individual hardware to chase now would be a great chance to evaluate youth. If they truly aren’t dipping into to market for big talent then I’d like to see more of Jones, Elliott and Williams. It’s probably too soon for Hoever and Van de Berg, but a few run outs would be nice. I suppose it’s hard to do a victory lap with no fans, but I’d rather see a drop in intensity with a focus towards next season. But I suppose that’s why I’m on the couch and Klopp is one of the all time greats.


All time great?
by CuzTeahan  (2020-07-12 23:16:20)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

I'm all for Liverpool fans enjoying their victory lap and no doubt following a Champions League with a Premier League trophy is a major accomplishment.

But two trophies in five years with Liverpool (the Club World Cup stuff is not a serious competition) without a serious effort on domestic cups does not make for a serious claim of greatness.

His German record is far more impressive with two leagues and four domestic cups in seven years in the Bundesliga.

All of this is nice and he had a chance to build on this record, but even among contemporaries, he is no Guardiola, Mourinho, or even Zidane, and when compared against all time greats he does not yet have a claim for making the group picture.


It depends on your definition of “all time great.”
by tex29  (2020-07-13 11:49:29)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Personally, I analogize it to being in the hall of fame in American sports. If you make it to the hall of fame, you can rightly be viewed as being among the all time greats in the sport. That doesn’t mean you are among the greatest of the greats, but you would still be considered an all time great.

Klopp is a hall of fame coach. He is in the conversation for being among the greatest of the greats, but I agree he needs to win a few more trophies before I would put him there. But I don’t have a problem with saying he’s an all time great.


Team performance vs team talent needs consideration
by SixShutouts66  (2020-07-13 20:38:18)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Admittedly a great manager in any sport puts his players in a position to maximize their talent and keeps team cohesion amidst powerful egos. However, I've also seen extremely talented teams underperform relative to their talent, even teams that have won trophies. Jose can you see


Domestic cups? Really?
by wcnitz  (2020-07-13 10:24:46)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Liverpool finished 2nd in the table behind a City record setting points tally.

Liverpool won the CL. Liverpool has won the league. Liverpool were not Real Madrid, Barcelona or even Bayern prior to Klopp. Yes, they've made amazing investments (the ownership group is stellar) but you still have to manage the side. He's done that and given them what they craved the most and has eluded them - the PL title.

He deserves to be mentioned with the best managers. So, he doesn't have as lengthy a resume as Jose, but Jose has been at it for much longer - he's also been fired more. Pep is more accomplished, but a lot of what he accomplished was in a league where titles were expected, not strived for (Bayern).

Klopp is absolutely an all time great for Liverpool. They can build the statue tomorrow and no Liverpool supporter would complain.


OK, then one league title in five years.
by CuzTeahan  (2020-07-13 10:33:16)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

If that is all they ever win domestically under Klopp, is that an all time great coach? If you want to make the argument he is an all-time great Liverpool coach, then sure, but that's not how I read the claim.


Not sure why you're ignoring BVB.
by NDMike2001  (2020-07-13 14:55:20)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

And hell Mainz for that matter.

Pep is an all time great manager. But the next club that he manages that wasn’t the dominant 1a/1b giant club before he got there will be his first. I think plenty reasonable folks will respect Klopp more for what he’s done. But it’s not a pissing match. They’re both great coaches.

I honestly can’t imagine very many, if any, people agreeing with your opinion that Klopp is not an all time great manager.


I didn't.
by CuzTeahan  (2020-07-13 16:25:09)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

I said, "His German record is far more impressive with two leagues and four domestic cups in seven years in the Bundesliga."

He's a really, really good manager, but I think his impact in the Premier League and overall is overstated.


Well then you moved the goal post on the rather innocuous
by miamioh_irishfan  (2020-07-13 16:26:44)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

statement that started this thread.

The claim was that Klopp is an all time great manager, period.


I responded to wcnitz's post.
by CuzTeahan  (2020-07-13 16:35:34)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

He made the shift to all time Liverpool coach, which I don't particularly care about, but whatever floats Liverpool fan boats.

I'll stand by two trophies in five years in the Premier League is not an all time great manager, even including his work in Germany. If so, maybe we should crown DiMatteo for winning one Champions League in his single year with Chelsea.


That's not what I really meant
by wcnitz  (2020-07-14 09:29:18)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

The man is already a Liverpool legend because of what he's accomplished.

That alone makes him one of the great current managers. Look at his entire resume and he's definitely in the top managers of all time list (or, as someone said, in the manager HOF).

And if not for arguably the greatest Bayern squad in history, he'd have another CL, too.

edit: should add that right now, there's only one manager I'd take over Klopp and that is Pep. And that's purely subjective. I put him over Zidane, Simeone, etc.


You're just being obtuse.
by NDMike2001  (2020-07-13 17:33:17)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Nobody "made the shift" to all time great Liverpool coach. There's not an argument there. You aren't a Liverpool fan and you don't care about it. Perhaps you can create your own thread about all time great premier league managers. Apparently that is the argument you want to have. But its inarguable that the man who ended Liverpool's 30 year title drought (who btw also won a UCL trophy, UCL final, Europa Final and the highest point total ever in a 2nd place finish in any domestic season) is considered a Liverpool great.

But the original comment is not limited to Liverpool. And I'd happen to agree that what he did at BVB is also remarkable - if not more so. And their fans hold him in similar regard. Which is exactly what makes him an all time great. He took two above average league teams and turned them into elite title contenders. That is without question something Pep has never done.

P.S. Lou Holtz won one national championship at Notre Dame. By your standards he's definitely not an all-time great coach and should be considered great by ND fans.


You're right that I don't care.
by CuzTeahan  (2020-07-13 20:42:44)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

But you're obtuse if you think two trophies in 7 years makes for an all-time great coach unless its a really deep team picture. That you start citing runner-up status in tournaments as a supporting achievement tells me all I need to know.

Liverpool's aggression is great, but as for tactics he offers little more than a pressurized dump and chase. I guess that makes Klopp the rich man's Sam Allerdyce.

We'll see next season, but my money's on a reversion to the norm of zero trophies under Klopp.

Finally, not sure what Lou has to do with it, but while I love Lou, any one being honest will admit disappointment that we only won one National Championship during his tenure.


Nobody, except you
by miamioh_irishfan  (2020-07-13 20:45:26)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Is using only Klopp's tenure at Liverpool to make the claim that he's an all-time great manager.

Read more.


Correct *
by NDMike2001  (2020-07-13 22:38:49)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


That's okay
by wcnitz  (2020-07-13 15:11:14)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

He'll cement his legend status when he wins the 2022 World Cup with Germany.


You mean when he takes them to the final in 2026
by miamioh_irishfan  (2020-07-13 16:23:09)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

and loses to his protege Christian Pulisic in the final.


Screw that.
by NDMike2001  (2020-07-13 17:38:10)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

He's going to right the wrongs of Jurgens past and take his boy to World Cup glory. One can dream right????


If you say so. *
by NDMike2001  (2020-07-13 10:18:44)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


I am no LFC fan
by ChicagoWave03  (2020-07-13 09:52:49)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

But I would much rather have Klopp than Zidane or Mourinho (at this point).


Yes, Mourinho's time seems past.
by CuzTeahan  (2020-07-13 10:28:23)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

The wheels seem to have fallen off with Tottenham in his first year.

Zidane is interesting and I wonder if/when we seem him coach other than Real Madrid, but three consecutive Champions League trophies puts him in the coaching pantheon.

Klopp's system seems highly specialized with the right players for a good multi-year run, but I think they have been fortunate to stay healthy with key players this year and need to build depth. Next year the Premier League is going to be more competitive than it has been in a long time, with Chelsea and Man United looking ready to present significant challenges to Liverpool and Man City heading into the transfer window (and with Chelsea already having added Werner and Ziyech).

I'm not saying Klopp isn't very, very good, but I don't yet see him as an all time great. A few more trophies in the next couple of years combined with his work at Dortmund would certainly improve that argument.


I also read the claim as inclusive of his BVB accompishments
by miamioh_irishfan  (2020-07-13 13:53:20)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Does that not count on Klopp's resume?


What? *
by mitquinn  (2020-07-11 12:21:43)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


Jones and Williams in the starting XI.
by NDBass  (2020-07-11 10:18:27)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

If they take care of business, I think Elliott could get some time today.


They haven't and he won't. *
by NDBass  (2020-07-11 11:43:59)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post