It's not La Liga's fault he is provocative.
by NDBass (2023-05-23 13:06:20)

In reply to: The Vini vs Racism in La Liga has reached a boiling point…  posted by wiNDycityfan


First of all, since when does somebody being provocative make racist chants/gestures OK?

Second of all, what in the world is he doing that people think is provocative? Is he doing something for which a white player would only receive common jeers? I've only seen him in Champions League, but I've never seen him do anything I'd consider provocative. Unless being really damn good is provocative. In that case, just boo/whistle the guy. I can only assume the color of his skin is what these idiots are considering provocative.


Regarding provocative, Australian sport has 3 famous cases
by plaid_pants  (2023-05-23 22:00:39)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

The first one was Nicky Winmar in 1993. Nicky is an indigenous Australian. After having a blinder of a game, he was racially taunted. He responded to the taunts by lifting up his shirt and pointing to his black skin. The phrase “proud indigenous man” is used frequently today and is associated with that incident.

Then in 2013, Adam Goodes, an indigenous AFL player for Sydney and one of the best players in the league, pointed out to security staff during a game a 13 year old girl who had used a racial slur against him. The girl was ejected and it became a big story. Goodes gave an interview the next day saying he didn’t blame the girl, because she learned those words somewhere and learned it was OK to use them. The situation was partially diffused, it two years later, during a game that was designated a celebration of indigenous culture, Goodes scored a dramatic goal and was jeered (not racially) by the opposing fans. He approached that section of fans doing an indigenous war dance and pantomimed throwing a spear at them. From that moment on, Goodes was loudly booed every time he touched the ball in every stadium in Australia for the rest of the year until he gave up the game at season’s end.

Today, the polarizing figure is an NRL rugby player named Lattrel Mitchel. While no incident has risen to the level of Goodes, Latrell is the most hated (indigenous) player in Australia.

The difficulty in these situations is that not all indigenous players receive this treatment. So the notion of is it provoked is mildly interesting. There seems to be a combination of being very good and being proud of your minority culture that seems to trigger the racist moments in the majority. One commentator on the Goodes situation described it as minorities are welcome as long as they stay in their box of acceptable behavior. But if you become more than the role society has carved out for you, watch out for the backlash.


To your point there is no excuse for the racist
by KnightlyRevue  (2023-05-23 14:41:18)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

bullshit and it is a pattern with Vini Jr. where La Liga has failed him. I feel the Atletico game should have been canceled. People may think that severe but when 4 pieces of crap (all have been arrested) put a black doll with Vini Jrs jersey hung from a bridge on the way where they knew Madrid's bus passes, and create a violent and hostile atmosphere the league has to step in. Yes, it would have been terrible to cancel the game and play it in an empty stadium the next day but it was warranted and it would have sent a very clear message.

What Vini did Sunday on his way out after that terrible red card would have gotten the same reaction from any color player IMO. Valencia is a proud club who has won La Liga and has fallen on hard times to the point where they may be relegated. Vini making the #2 gesture and pointing down while mouthing "Segunda" was probably not wise though I do not blame him. The crowd was chanting "Tonto" which he interpreted as "Mono" (he had every reason to think that after the disgusting display in the endzone) and he lost his composure.

This was not uncommon for Cristiano in away stadiums BTW. Atletico had a special hate for him. Go look at Luis Figo doc on Netflix when he switched from Barca to Real Madrid. They threw a goddamn pig head at him on a corner at Camp Nou on his first visit back. Threw bottles. People need to realize this is a sport. Its not war. Its not enemies. Its sport.


Well, this is not just about soccer as you all know…
by wiNDycityfan  (2023-05-23 18:45:23)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Before I migrated to the US, I grew up in middle class Panama, in an environment where class and socioeconomic status, and therefore race, guided ruling patterns and the way social theory performed. Bigotry and ignorance was (think still is) just so pervasive it is like a way of life (heck, I still correct family members and warn them when they misspeak; they just don’t know any better). Also, as I said somewhere down a few threads below, my mother’s side is from Bilbao and another good number from Sevilla- and it’s like they’re stuck in the 1940s.

Back on topic, based on the videos, commentary and pronouncements I’ve heard and read from Spaniards (from social media to actual newspapers and reporters), it appears to me they either just don’t see the issue clearly, or society in general, or a large segment of it, still in this day and age, perceives the racial concept in terms of class. Those individuals that have not shared similar socioeconomic circumstances as the majority, are still perceived inferior, and treated as such- and it’s clearly correlated with the monitories. It also appears to me Spain (I’m going to lump Italy here too) has not evolved in this area as other more progressive European cultures, such as Brits or Germans, and you can still make a case these two have not evolved enough when it comes to treatment of minorities. I understand I’m making massive generalizations here, but overall still applies.

Anyway, only way to nip this in soccer is to a)cancel games, then b)play games on empty stadiums, then c)deduct points, then d)relegation, and last e)kick them out all competition, in that order. Not going to happen, but it should.

As for outside of soccer, God helps us.


I would be very very careful on progressive culture...
by SCOANGERS  (2023-05-24 10:27:57)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

At least for Germany and Switzerland I have so many examples of racism and anti-Semitism, especially in Sport and soccer

There is one fact for Spain - it used to be till the 70s and immigrant nation...since the EU integration as it has became richer Spain now is an immigration country ...and that has for me triggered the worse...