to make it happen. 16.2M just to endow the 9.9 GIAs...currently expendable at 74K per year per GIA. I'd guess coaching and other support FTE's somehwere around 500K per year, requiring an 11M endowment. And then maybe another 500K for operational expenses...another 11M endowment. Start up gift of about 38M.

And even then, title IX would be difficult to overcome.

Now, what might be an interesting argument is that a wrestling program would help the football team recruit certain types of athletes that we can't currently get.

I'm not sure how many football/wrestling two sport athletes there are anymore, but I remember Ryan Harris and two other guys in his recruiting class were all state wrestling champions and all three of them seemed to know leverage better than the other linemen.

I know, even bigger gift needed. But should it always be about money? Plenty of other sports don't operate in the black. Look at all the sports in which Stanford participates, and their football program doesn't generate the income ND's football program does

And as stanford_07 points out, wrestling is a sport in which our aspirational peers participate, a sport we once had before Title IX, and if I remember correctly, a donor DID earmark money for the program but it got hijacked.

Other football greats who also were exceptional wrestlers - Mike Fanning and the Golics

Dick Arrington, a stalwart on Ara's original teams and later played in the NFL. He pinned most of his opponents in the first minute and single-handedly brought in many spectators. Later Big Mike McCoy.

Interestingly enough, I think the body types of our linemen (much taller and rangier) are less ideal for wrestling (or could benefit more from it).

Some minor sports (lacrosse, fencing, hockey) started as club sports, but became university-sponsored later. Others (rugby, rowing, skiing?) seemd to have died on the vine.

It is unlikely either become varsity sports, however.

It's also spots in the first year class.

How many spots should athletics get? What do these students bring to the table that we don't already have in the class?

Wrestling is actually interesting in someways since wreslters are more likely to be from working class and lower middle class backgrounds and also tend to be first in the family going to college. That might be a plus. But who doesn't get in as a result? Maybe roll back legacy programs?

That doesn't seem like it would move the needle much in spots in the class, especially when it would eventually be spread over 4 or 5 classes.

Granted, Title IX might require adding Field Hockey (12) or Ice Hockey (18) for women, but women athletes tend to be closer to the norm of other students as far as academics go.

Also, we have built new dorms and not increased the enrollment appreciably (yes, I know the overcrowded dorm argument) - instead of displacing students or legacies, why not just add 5 or 6 students a year for these athletic programs.

Wouldn't need to build facilities - Field Hockey could play on lacrosse or soccer fields, Ice Hockey is already there and has two rinks, wrestling could move into the Pit

Edit: I guess there could be some preferred walk-ons that get into ND more on their wrestling merits than their academics - but unlike money generating sports, I would suspect they would have to be close to the normal student.
Also, not sure but I believe the scholarships can be split so the 9.9 could go to 20+ athletes increasing the number of "extra" students in my proposal.

Bottom line (if you can't tell) I would like to see Wrestling back at Notre Dame

Penn State is also carrying 36 on roster.

Average team size is 32.

It is very likely that those 9.9 scholarships get sliced into 3 or 4 different student athlete packages.

What you are asking for is definitely not 9.9 student athletes divided by 4 classes. You're likely seeking 15 new student athletes a year (wrestling plus Title IX sport).

That's fine, but who gets cut out of the freshmen class?

The NCAA says the average scholarships per team is 24, but I still don't see a problem using your numbers. I don't know the actual numbers on students and beds available, but we have built 4 new dorms in the last 4 years and are currently using an "extra" dorm to rotate students as their older dorms are remodeled. I believe there has got to be room for 15-20 additional students. It would seem that current enrollment probably fluctuates by that amount each year anyway.
You would know better on the numbers, but I just don't think anyone needs to be "cut"

How does Stanford do it? They have 36 varsity sports compared to Notre Dame's 26.

• Click here for link at http://www.scholarshipstats.com/wrestling.html

should be varsity athletes. That's their choice.

What problem does adding varsity wrestling solve? Does that net ND more than adding varsity wrestling costs? It might. I'm just pointing out the obstacles that have to be overcome, and a hard enrollment ceiling of 2050 per first year class that is based on dorm capacity is certainly something to consider.

Most non-revenue sports don't solve any problems (other than balancing Title IX requirements). Most don't net ND more than their costs. Wrestling does have a prior history at Notre Dame so there is that. It may benefit some 2 sport athletes although most concentrate on only one sport these days.

I was a wrestler in high school, come from a family of wrestlers, my brother wrestled for ND, so I have a personal interest in the sport and so naturally I think it's worthwhile. I think the enrollment numbers can be overcome and I don't think the Stanford model is crazy (maybe not 36 varsity sports) - they get a lot of notoriety for always being at or near the top in the collegiate rankings, Director's Cup, while not losing any of their academic credibility.

Cost shouldn't be an obstacle for Notre Dame, but I don't see them adding varsity sports unless they get an earmarked donation

You're requesting a change ... even a change back. When most of the non revenue women's sports were added, they were fixing a clear problem (as misguided as you might think Title IX is, compliance is an important issue facing most colleges and universities).

The enrollment issue can be overcome, but it is zero sum right now. Adding a new set of admits means subtracting it someplace else.

So 10-15 kids each year in the freshman class will be wrestlers. They'll also be good students, live in the dorms and major in all kinds of things. Who has been cut out of ND since we added hockey? Women's lacrosse? What kids aren't getting into ND because we have a soccer program?

Requiring juniors to live on campus without adequate housing capacity means we won't see growth in enrollment for the foreseeable future.

Not holding my breath but a lot of people would be thrilled. Those wrestlers were hung out to dry by ND in 1992.

You're certainly right about the football aspect. Just looking at the early Weis era: Ryan Harris was a standout wrestler, Trevor Laws was a high school wrestling state champ in Minnesota and John Sullivan was one in Connecticut.

All 14 Big Ten schools have wrestling. It's very strong in the ACC with Va Tech, NC State, UNC and Pitt all in the latest top ten. And the "aspirational peer" group continues to excel: Stanford won the PAC 12 title last year; Duke finished 22nd nationally two years ago; Army, Navy and Air Force all send multiple guys to nationals each year; Cornell is a national power and Princeton is in line for a top five finish this year.