extremely disappointing. I get that injuries have played a part, but I think the team probably still should have been a tournament team last year and this year should be better than the dregs of the ACC.
When is the last time ND missed back-to-back tournaments? And with no guarantee of making the tournament next year.
You lose an All-BE player for 15 games, your starting point guard for six, and your frosh who was moving into the starting lineup for the last half of the conference season. And yet you're still the last team out of the NCAA tournament in a year where the conference sent four teams to the S16?
You're right, that is extremely disappointing, just not for the reasons you think it is.
No doubt they would have made the tournament with a healthy Colson, but they didn’t look good before he got hurt and weren’t playing particularly well.
This team was pretty clearly not a tournament team with Rex. In fact before he got hurt, I can recall a lot of complaints about him getting too much run.
I certainly don’t think Brey should be on the hot seat, but the program hasn’t built on the elite 8 performances the way a lot of people (including me) had hoped.
The same was true of the 2015-16 team. It lost three non-conference games, one to Monmouth, one to Alabama (18-15/8/10 for the season), and one to Indiana (a good team). It lost at home to Pitt in game two of the conference season.
Ultimately the 2015-16 team earned a double bye in the ACC tournament knocking off North Carolina, Louisville, and Duke along the way; beat Duke again in the conference tournament; and lost to eventual champion North Carolina in the NCAA regoial final.
I don't know what last season's team would have become, but it never got a chance to gel like the 2015-16 team did.
Everyone is bitching about Brian Kelly after going 12-1 and 22-4 over the past two years, yet Brey always,always,always gets a pass, regardless of circumstance.
I understand and acknowledge that football has a great many benefits that the hoops team does not.
I just think it's odd that Kelly gets all the blame and none of the credit, whereas Brey gets all of the credit and none of the blame.
He is accountable for his results. Nobody said that he isn't. People just want intelligent debate.
Last year was the first time in several years that Notre Dame failed to live up to expectations. And the expectations were lofty despite losing Beachem, Vasturia and Ryan before the season. Then you lose Colson, Farrell and Harvey during the season.
The next season everyone knew was a rebuilding year. And in that rebuilding year they have lost the one senior leader that was expected to keep things together...DURING a game in which they held on to beat what is now the 12th ranked team in the country.
Brey doesn't "get a pass" for poor coaching. There have been plenty of discussions regarding recruiting disappointments and end of game situations this season that have been questioned. However, there should at least be some recognition that injuries have put some rather significant restraints on the last two seasons.
As for recruiting, Brey has received a bit of a "pass" insofar as many have opined that the facilities were a significant detriment to recruiting. Many will be extremely disappointed if Brey cannot see significant improvement on that front.
As for Kelly, his recruiting woes have been well documented despite coaching at one of the most prestigious programs in the country. Their average ranking is closer to 15th every year than it is top 5. One might argue that Kelly overachieves with respect his overall talent. However, most believe that Notre Dame has a higher bar. So yes, Kelly gets the blame for not meeting the bar. Did the team overachieve this year? Most would say yes. But has Kelly met or exceed the bar? What do you think?
that football gets vs basketball, then I don't understand why you then would say you can't understand why Kelly gets no respect and Brey only gets praise. I think there has been acknowledgement of some gaps in recruiting by Brey and what has been a bit of an uneven roster. Some of that has been caused by transfers, injury, and some recruiting reaches that didn't pan out. Some of it is probably some questionable decisions by Brey in managing the roster.
I think it hasn't helped that Brian Kelly has been a know it all prick for much of his tenure. On the flip side, you don't ever hear much of Mike Brey spouting off about how many years he has coached and how difficult his job is. Mike Brey has an incredibly difficult job managing a roster of only 10-11 guys of which most have to be recruiting hits that leans on development. It's pretty hard to find many players that weren't genuinely likable within the basketball program. I'm not saying the football program has bad guys at all - just saying we recruit different types of players for basketball. They generally aren't going to be the elite or close to elite players who are going to be more coddled. I don't have much patience for that stuff.
It's pretty easy to go into a bar in town and strike up a conversation with Mike Brey. I'm not sure you could say the same for Kelly and quite honestly, I have no desire to even approach the guy for a conversation. There is a lot to be said for likability giving someone a longer leash.
Lastly, some of it is context. Brian Kelly accumulated two very nice years which appear now to have been benefits of some easier schedules than anticipated. When the best competition came our way, it wasn't even close. That gets frustrating. I think if we were competitive, there would be a much different view on the past two years. In the case of Mike Brey, we went toe to toe with Kentucky in the Elite 8 which I thought was one of the best college basketball teams I've seen in recent years. That's called getting your guys to perform and earns you a lot of respect. That doesn't mean I'm not frustrated and disappointed with this year but it does mean I'm realistic in understanding how we have gotten to this year. I expect player development and maybe a grad transfer will yield a team next year that will get into the NCAA tournament next year without a lot of sweat.
I could say that Kelly’s team went toe-to-toe with Natl runner up Georgia two years ago whereas Brey’s team got lucky by avoiding WVU and Xavier three years ago and then got blasted when they did play WVU the next year in the tournament.
Mind you, I like both coaches. I’m just saying it’s all about framing. And it seems to me that everyone here wants to frame Brey in a positive light while it’s the exact opposite for Kelly.
Said team went 2-1 HTH v. eventual NC's. It won decisively on consecutive nights against 2 marquee programs in their home state. It gave an undefeated UK team all it could handle. BK, OTOH, had a team that might've had a shot at winning a NC had 1 of the AL team buses gotten into a serious accident on its way to the game.
MB doesn't have a national TV contract, he doesn't have decades of tradition to sell, he doesn't have the resources FB has, and he does have a campus that is largely indifferent about his sport.* MB didn't reach for a perceived higher rung the first time it was presented to him,** he has never been an embarrassment on the sidelines, and he has never thrown players under the bus in public.
Other than that, I can't see why people prefer MB.
*In hindsight, it occasionally amazes me when I recall how much MBB was part of campus fabric in my day.
**A MD alum I know who's plugged into their program told me: "I thought that we had Brey" after Williams stepped down.
season game against Georgia against a freshman quarterback in his road debut was about as good of a chance that we could ever hope for. By the end of the year, we were worse and couldn't match up with any elite team in a playoff type format. If that is Brian Kelly's best effort considering the resources in the past 8 years, it's just not that good. I think my larger point is that Kelly made his bed - he is an awfully difficult guy to like.
Have to wonder if they win 1 of those 2 games, they don't get left out.
I am sure had they won 2, they would have made it.
Perhaps the board can regain it's sense of decorum but I'm not holding my breath.
Rocks's House. That being said I've been around since the old IRJ and I've grown tired of drive by's such as yours and ridiculous posts offered. This place needs a colon cleanse.
You call for better discourse while calling others jackasses.
Also been around since Tom Schlidt/IRJ. Maybe you could "cleanse" the board yourself by putting people on ignore whose posts or opinions don't jibe with your views.
not trying to lump you into the absurd posts. Sorry for not being clear about that.
edit to include:
I've ignored 2 posters in my time here and have regretted my lack of discipline to ignore them on my own. I currently have no ignores and plan on continuing to not ignore anyone. I may how ever take a hiatus from the board in the future. The crazy posts just aren't worth getting upset about.
The Moran’s are only here during down years. He should be back next season - partly to bitch slap the jackass posters because we are back to being a NCAA tournament team next season
I've always looked forward to his posts after games, and I really wish he were regularly posting this year with some random thoughts to help make sense to this disaster of a season, but he probably needs to have a little bit of thicker skin.
The team is 3-8 in the ACC after a poor showing in non-conference. It's almost impossible to discuss the team without discouragement and some negativity seeping in. Yes, you hope for some perspective with that to make the discussion balanced and more worthwhile but none of us should be surprised to see people blowing off some steam after each awful performance.
I understand that the posters that drove him away were mostly hit and run types and not deep well written analyses, but it still is an opportunity for a good poster/writer to provide some context during an awful season rather than just go away.