For Bluengold07, on perceptions here of Brey and Kelly,
by Georgia Hog (2019-02-12 08:40:49)
Edited on 2019-02-12 10:21:51

these quotes, among many other things described by Chicos Bail Bonds and others, give some insight into why many of us are inclined to cut Brey more slack than Kelly:

Brey after the loss to Miami individual conversations with the team:
“The basic theme was that I love them and I love coaching them. We’re on our heels. We won on Saturday and got off to a good start down there and then it didn’t happen. It’s a matter of letting them know we’re going back to work and let’s keep investing. Just keep coming in and practicing. They’re going to get in the game and get experience.”

On drawing the line of nurturing and anger:
“It’s a fine line. I challenged them at halftime. We have really sharp guys. They are hard on themselves. I have to find ways to keep them moving and confident or repair confidence. It’s much more teaching.

“There is going to be some pain and we’re feeling some pain. I’ve tried to remind myself to teach and I can light them up when I have to, but I have to keep teaching. We have receptive guys.”

Brey on TJ Gibbs' struggles:
“I visited with all the guys individually as we were flying back the other night. He said he has to make shots. When a guy ties himself up in knots like that, the last thing I’m going to talk about is his shooting or that type of thing.

"You just try to take the pressure off of him and get him to enjoy the game. Each day is a clean slate."

Kyle McAlarney on his own suspension and his relationship with Brey:

"McAlarney: Coach Brey in my corner was everything. I can’t emphasize it enough. It’s not just him saying it either, it’s him flying to my house to spend a night with my parents and I when it all happened.

"It’s him speaking out against the administration and fighting for his players. He was a father-figure/educator through it all. He was there as a father figure/educator first, coach second. That’s Notre Dame, man. That’s why it’s different than other universities. His example of loyalty is what I spoke to about basketball coming second to him fulfilling his real duty — to graduate us all and send us away better than we came in.

“When he broke the news to the team that I was suspended, he cried. That’s just me, a kid on his team, being suspended. I didn’t die. I was fine; I was healthy. But he cried.”

Kelly after a 31-17 loss to USC (October 2011):
“You know, I generally — I’m falling on the sword nine out of 10 times,” Kelly said. “But I know what I’m doing on a bye week. I’ve had great success. I know what it looks like.”

“I’m certainly not going to go back and second-guess the way I’ve prepared over 21 years in a bye week. Sometimes there’s some accountability from everybody, coaches and players alike ... They didn’t play as well as they needed to play.”

Kelly also said he wasn’t pleased with QB Dayne Crist:
The next day, when a writer asked Kelly whether he was concerned about Crist's mental state, Kelly said, "No, I don't have to worry about it. He does."
But the coup de grâce came when Kelly indicted all his upperclassmen, demeaning the attitude and skills of players recruited by the coach before him:

"You can see the players that I recruited here," Kelly said Thursday. "You know who they are. We've had one class … that I've had my hand on. The other guys here are coming along. But it's a process. It can't happen overnight. They're getting there.
That included future NFL players like Manti Te’o and Kapron Lewis-Moore, both of whom tweeted their displeasure with Kelly’s comments, the Chicago Tribune reported.

Kelly blames loss in to NC State in a hurricane on Mustiphers's "atrocious" shotgun snaps:
Kelly dressed down Mustipher on the sidelines and after the game said this: "We're looking for wins, not improvement on one side of the ball or the other. Although, I was very pleased with our physicality, toughness and tackling. I'm just extremely disappointed in the offensive execution and lack of ability to manage the snapping of the football — which was atrocious as well."

From what I have seen from both coaches over many years following ND's football and basketball teams very closely, I would be absolutely thrilled to have Mike Brey coach my sons, and I absolutely would discourage them from playing for Brian Kelly.



I’m not saying that Kelly is more likable than Brey
by bluengold07  (2019-02-14 18:13:27)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Indeed the opposite. Obviously Brey is a great guy where as Kelly seems to go out of his way to be an ass.

But

I’m really more interested in results.


Great examples, but that was Kelly 1.0
by Ajax  (2019-02-12 12:52:13)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

For a myriad of reasons Brey deserves to be cut more slack than Kelly, but that still does not excuse Brey for some of the bad NCAAT losses to mid majors and the fact he has only beaten a better seed in the NCAAT once. Kelly has much more pressure to win in the regular season and in 2 seasons he ran the table. Beating teams like Oklahoma on the road or Michigan at home are the equivalent of sweet 16 or elite 8 wins in college basketball. Struggling to beat Pittsburgh at home is the equivalent of struggling to beat Northeastern or SF Austin in the NCAAT.


It seems disengenuous to compare only Brey's tournament
by tdiddy07  (2019-02-12 13:52:15)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

record. I don't have the numbers in front of me, but Brey's record against top 10 opponents is likely considerably better than Kelly's. Especially when eliminating outlier years.

Brey is more likable for the reasons in the OP. That can lead to overstating the case for him at times. Brey has shortcomings, and the tournament record compared to regular season accomplishments is one of those. If we're just looking at Kelly's bowl history and comparing that to Brey, that makes some sense. Although when Brey has been drilled by elite teams in the tournament, he did not have contending teams. Whereas Kelly's best teams have been drilled.

But if we're opening up Kelly's regular seasons, then it would only be fair to note Brey's, including his record against elite teams and elite coaches. That would likely compare more favorably to someone like Dantonio, whose success against elite opponents (say final Top 10 teams, or--on the basketball side that plus--teams that went to the elite 8 or simply eventual national champions) is much better than Kelly's despite having much less talent.


It's not like Kelly 2.0 hasn't thrown players under the bus
by ndzippy  (2019-02-12 13:44:57)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

On Wimbush, after the 2017 Miami loss:

"Well, you know, first big game atmosphere, being able to get into his optimal zone. He obviously didn't perform at the level that he wants to perform at, and that he quite frankly needs to perform at."

"The third [interception] with respect to Brandon, again, just a late throw, one that's got to come out sooner. It was thrown behind Chase. So that's just being more accurate and being on time with the throw."


And let's not forget the way he treated Laken Litman after the Georgia loss in 2017, which is something you'd NEVER see Mike Brey do.


Those quotes are pretty tame *
by irishboy89  (2019-02-13 16:16:30)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


Both the unconditional love for Brey and the
by Tim Kelley  (2019-02-12 14:39:26)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

criticism of how Kelly treats his players are exaggerated. Your examples are extremely weak in terms of falling within the description of “throwing players under the bus”.


The love for Brey is exaggerated?
by ndzippy  (2019-02-12 17:31:19)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

I don't know what you mean by that.

You think the way we describe the fan base's love for Brey is exaggerated? Or that the way in which we talk about his love for the his players is exaggerated?

If you don't think Brian Kelly is an asshole, that's fine. But I imagine we'd disagree on many, many things if that's the case.


Well done! Thanks. *
by dfcirish  (2019-02-12 10:11:44)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


Hard to find a better side-by-side comparison than this
by ndzippy  (2019-02-12 09:28:45)     Delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

I guess the lesson here is that being a good person, and actually caring about the people you're surrounded by, you can buy some goodwill that helps you weather tough times. Who knew?

Well, actually, pretty much everybody knows this. And that the opposite (i.e., being such a dick that nobody even wants to celebrate good times with you) is also true. Which is why we're so hard on Brian Kelly all the time.