Look
by HTownND (2024-04-24 19:25:33)
Edited on 2024-04-24 19:26:56

I'm not a Bears fan, and yes, I would have liked to see them move to Arlington Park for very selfish reasons.

I'm resigned to the fact that school board greed has put an end to that.

But holy shit the Bears and the city are hilarious.

The two biggest issues, parking and access, were completely ignored by both parties. The walk from the L stop at Roosevelt is now even longer, and they did basically nothing to improve access to the campus

Bears Traffic Plans

I'll leave it to other people who are better at math than me to figure out how the city is going to bridge the $3B necessary, beyond the NFL/Bears investment, to build all of this without raising any taxes.

Incompetence abounds, in the suburbs and the ciy.


"school board greed." The Bears initial proposal said
by rick  (2024-04-25 11:30:52)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

it required "property tax certainty." They never defined what that meant. But, it sounds like they wanted to pay an very low PILOT instead of going thru the regular assessment process. PILOT would have required a state law, not a decision of the 3 school boards.
And, they never said if the "property tax certainty" would extend indefinitely to the mixed-use development that would take up over half of the site. Lots of that would have been residential. District 15 said they might have to build a new elementary school for those residents.
The Bears never gave out specifics. They sent out a general idea and expected to get whatever they wanted based on that limited concept.


PPS
by HTownND  (2024-04-25 12:57:19)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Sure seems like the Bears gave out specifics:

"We really tried to reach an agreement,” Dalianis said. “We offered them what they said they wanted, which is long-term property tax certainty and essentially $5 million (in taxes) a year, and those offers were not accepted. So we’re frustrated.”

There are a ton of people carrying water for the schools, but anyone with a brain knows they are greedy SOBs and full of shit. The idea that the Bears should be accountable or anyone developing that site to know and identify the exact number of houses going in, right now/today, is preposterous. The plans are still fluid and haven't been finalized. Holding the Bears accountable to say they didn't have specifics around the number of houses officially that would go in there is absurd. Look at the Arlington 425, which has changed the number of units multiple times over the past few years, as the designs were approved, etc. That didn't stop anyone from anything. The school board in AH didn't say shit, while that was all being finalized (hell, they just got another extension the other day). Yet the expectation from the schools, right now, is the Bears would have that locked down for them, and because they didn't, they needed to double the assessment? Come on. That's not how any development works whatsoever.

I go back to the question below. What changed? Either you're an incompetent asshole because you agreed to $80M with Churchill Downs, which wasn't even close to enough of the real value, or you're a greedy pig who wants $160M a year later. Neither is confidence inspiring. They should all get run out on a rail after this is done.

But to make sure everyone is clear, this is how it would work.

The Bears decide to subdivide the parcel (as everyone in development does) and creates a small plot for a residential build in the SE corner near Wilke/Euclid where the OTB and Ditkas were. Let's call it 3 acres (out of the 300+ on the property). Before anything happens, that zoning would have to change, the plans for each house or condo unit would be proposed (and the schools and village and everyone would be aware). The Bears probably wouldn't develop that themselves, they would sell it. Developer A would come in (because they had a better bid/plan than Developer B, C, D and E who all bid on that parcel). Developer A would go to the Village and get their plans rejected (unless Tinaglia is the architect, which is a conflict of interest that I'm not going to go into at the moment). They would recast them, eventually get approved, and then Developer A would negotiate on the property tax valuation while they actually develop the site. They would be on the hook, not the Bears. And when the first person buys the first house, they then pay the property taxes, they have kids that show up to Kindergarten (which is full day in the whole area now that 25 has caught up), and there has been money flowing to the schools for years in property tax before the first kid shows up.

The Bears have asked, until the parcel is subdivided and the plans are finalized, let's keep our tax bill consistent, because until then, it's empty land. No one should interpret that as tax certainty forever. The second the parcels start getting cut up for development, whether it's the Bears or another developer, it will trigger reviews and zoning by all parties. The tax assessment and valuation will be revisited each and every time that happens. That's not a terrible/ridiculous ask given how the development will go and the fact that the property will be vacant for several years. For some reason the schools want the Bears to prepay all of this stuff, and collect their taxes from the developer and home owner down the road too under the guise of what may or may not happen with that subdivided plot of land. So yes, they are greedy assholes, because if Developer A runs into land mines (or further greedy asshole school boards) and drops out and Developer B comes in with a different plan, with different zoning and numbers of units/houses, that will require a different number of classroom space, which would be sorted out well before any of those kids hit a classroom. But the Bears shouldn't have to prepay all of that. Property assessments aren't based on what the property might be, they are based on what the property is today.


PS
by HTownND  (2024-04-25 12:51:30)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

This is part of the problem

"District 15 said they might have to build a new elementary school for those residents."

That's the Kimball Hill districting right now, which has short term space for new students, based on any and all projections. You can talk to anyone and everyone associated with the school.

But let me ask you this? When do you think the first residential property will end up on that site? There are a few years between today and that happening. And that resident will pay property taxes. In fact they will probably pay higher taxes than today, because the value will continue to go up with the stadium in place. Why didn't District 15 earmark some of the tax money from Churchill Downs in 2022 for building that school? They knew the Bears were buying it and planning a stadium and mixed use development? Why aren't they setting aside the increase in tax funds from the 2023 triannual for it, everyone around that site is paying much more in taxes today than we were before?

I'm sure Nicholas construction would be happy to build them a school, and there will be plenty of money for it today, and in the future, with a valuation at $80M.

But even if they didn't, what's to prevent a referendum like District 25 did following the expansion to full day Kindergarten?

The idea that they needed to double the property tax valuation to pay for a potential new school a decade from now, when they have capacity in their current schools is a crock of shit, and everyone knows it. They were greedy and got caught with their hand in the cookie jar, and I hope everyone of those assholes hits the bricks soon enough.


Sure
by HTownND  (2024-04-25 12:23:14)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

But let's ask the school board a couple of questions and walk through a few facts

1) The Bears submitted a bid for the property on June 17, 2021. That bid, we would later find out, was roughly $190M
2) A week later, the Village of Arlington Heights updated the zoning to allow a stadium to go on that site. This did not include county approval
3) Bears sign purchase agreement for Arlington Park with Churchill Downs in September 2021
4) In September of 2021, the last horse race takes place at Arlington Park (I was there). The process of dismantling the place begins immediately (my neighbors bought furniture and other stuff from the park. Most of us refrained from purchasing any souvenirs). I mention this because as of that date, or more closely, the day after, that property was not equipped or able to host another horse race again.
5) Churchill Downs was on the hook for the assessed property tax value of $33M. Of note, this was a commercially viable race track, with a known purchase value of approximately 190M (all of the bids were north of $150M and while the Bears were chosen with a bid close to $190M, everyone, the schools included, agreed with a $33M valuation on a property everyone knew was selling for close to $190M)
6) More zoning talks begin with all partiers in October of 2021

These are all undisputed facts. The school district and others valued the property at $33M following a publicly available and known purchase price being announced.

Fast forward to 2022/2023. We know the Bears are buying the property, the transaction is expected to close in late 2022/early 2023. Churchill Downs negotiates a valuation of the property for tax purposes of ~$80M for 2022, with the schools, knowing the purchase price and that the Bears intend to put a stadium there. More than doubling the previous year's valuation.

Somehow, between then and now, the school districts valuation doubled (their opening bid was $160M, and has come down to $125M).

As everyone in Illinois knows, constitutionally you cannot sales chase when it comes to property values.

So now to the question to the schools. What has changed materially from the time you agreed with Churchill Downs that the value of the property was $80M to your current offers of $160 and $125M. The answer is nothing. The track isn't functioning (it was torn down throughout 2023 and again, the last race was in September of 2021). The school boards should have to answer the question of why they were willing to assess the value at $80M when it was Churchill Downs and $160M when it was the Bears. Every data point around the sale was already known when that $80M assessment was agreed to, so why the magic jump? What changed?

I would love for KByrnes to weigh in here, and explain property valuation, and how it's fluxuated so much for this property depending on who was being negotiated with.

So yes, the Bears haven't shown all their cards to the districts, because the districts are full of shit. I hope the Bears sell the parcel to Amazon to turn into a giant warehouse, and run Amazon trucks up and down Euclid and all through Palatine and f's up traffic for all of those schools in perpetuity, while they all get much much less in property value from that land than what they would have gotten.

The schools are greedy and want to front load payments when there won't be a single person living on that land or attending that school for years. And by the way, all of us that live around there have seen increased assessments that are currently funding said schools, because the Bears were coming. That's going to go back down too, and they are going to lose out on that money as well.

Everyone of those dipshits on each of the school boards should be run out on a rail.

And I'm still pissed at the AH HS district for what they did to my daughter's soccer club. The HS was happy to take money from the club to build an artificial turf field, in exchange for use by the club, until that wasn't what they wanted, so they kicked the club out and didn't pay them back for the field that the club paid to install for them. They are a bunch of smug assholes, and they will get what's coming to them soon enough. The whole area would print money, and every condo and townhouse that would go up on that property (most of whom probably won't have school age kids) will be paying property taxes to the schools well above and beyond where things stand today. The money would come, but the schools wanted it prepaid and up front and wouldn't budge.


Money will come from the tough negotiations with the CTU
by dfw  (2024-04-25 09:12:08)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Oops...wrong board.