Trump is the product not the cause of the current Republican
by wpkirish (2024-02-07 13:05:31)

In reply to: Sadly, you are correct  posted by mintirish

Cannot Reply Return to Political

Party.

The party leaders and elected officials have been given multiple chances to walk away from Trump for reasons ranging from the Access Hollywood Tape to Storny Daniels to his election lies to January 6th to being found liable for sexual abuse of a woman to any number of other items. Every time they have refused or if they tried to move on like Kevin McCarthy or Lindsey Graham they quickly reversed course.

I think Donald Trump is a horrible human being (to be kind) for a host of reasons. However, he is a master of marketing and the art of the con. I think the ability to understand what your target auduence wants is the common skill in both marketing and being a con man.

Trump did what he always does he sold people on what they wanted. With the Trump "brand" he was selling the illusion of class and glamour. With his political campaign he sold them the illusion he would fight for them and make their lives better.

The party needs to stop being anti-government and at least return to small government. The party needs to accept the legitimacy of the Democrats and their elections and negotiate in good faith. Hell the response from the Bipartisan Border fiasco is Senators calling for Mitch McConnell to resign as Senate Minority Leader.

No secret I am a Democrat but I believe a two party system that believes in the legitimacy of our government is far better than what we have now. However, the end of Trump will not miraculously cause Ted Cruz or Josh Hawley or JD Vance or a host of others to return the party to its prior form. They have become far too reliant on Maga voters and speaking the truth them will be too painful. The end of Trump will not cause people like Jesse Waters to suddenly admit that Taylor Swift is not the product of a deep state psy ops campaign to destroy America and the Republican Party.

The only way for the Republican party to put Trumpism in the rear view mirror for good is to tell their voters the truth. I have no illusions they will do that even Haley cant bring herself to do it. What I am unsure about is the future of the nation if they are unable to do it.

Oh my ass
by ACross  (2024-02-07 14:20:37)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Cannot reply

You lefties all have your heads up your ass.

His base has only a small percentage of true Repbublicans. They are a new breed of mental defectives born of the internet age tribalism and warmed over populism and distaste for educated people and "elites". Think Ross Perot and Ron and Rand Paul and gun freaks and Waco and that nonsense in Klamath Falls. Amd in pro life absolutists. They all coalesced around Trump. Unfortunately people like GK Chesterton and Raoul hold their noses and vote for him
Keep hiding your head in the sand if it makes you ...
by barney68  (2024-02-07 16:31:04)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Cannot reply

feel better, Andy, but that won't change what has happened. MAGA now controls the GOP. Look at the mess on Capitol Hill.

The rot goes all the way down. Truth tellers are shunted aside. Insurrectionists spending their time in jail are being called "political prisoners" and "hostages" by the #3 GOP Member in the House. Cruz and Hawley are practicing their "Make MAGA love me" moves.

Why? Because they know they can't win the primary without MAGA's total belief and can't win the general without MAGA votes.

But general elections are won and lost at the margins. It's folks who say "well, my guy is ok" and vote for GOP members down ballot that provide that tiny edge needed for election. As long as they do so, the folks who know better will say "well, I'll do what MAGA wants because they'll come after me if I don't, but the GOP regulars will always come home at the ballot box and get me reelected."

Exactly three GOP members voted against the sham Mayorkas impeachment. Was your guy one of them?

Keep thinking that, if it makes you feel better.
by ocnd  (2024-02-07 15:35:46)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Cannot reply

It's completely wrong, as evidenced by the millions and millions of votes he received in 2020, but feel free to delude yourself.
Many millions of those were not Republican voters
by ACross  (2024-02-07 15:55:11)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Cannot reply

Which is the point.

90 percent of 2012 Romney voters voted for Trump in 2016.
by John@Indy  (2024-02-07 16:55:47)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Cannot reply

A similar percentage of Republican elected officials lined up behind Trump and remain there today. You are correct that the electorate shifted to some degree. Blue collar white voters shifted in Trump's direction and the college educated and suburbanites shifted to Hillary. But that happens to some extent in every election.

Trump never would have been president if the vast majority of 2012 Romney voters hadn't voted for him.

Then what are they?
by wpkirish  (2024-02-07 16:53:57)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Cannot reply

You seem to have in mind some set of voters who are the "true Republican voters" and others are interlopers. That ignores the fact many of the groups you want to dismiss as not real republicans have long been a part of the Republican coalition. Social conservatives and religous conservatives have voted Republican for decades, Libertarians have voted Reppublican for decades. The White working class has been a staple of Republican voters since the 1980's.

The difference now is the groups you want to dismiss control the party in many states and at the national level. They turn out the voters for the primaries and provide the bulk of the votes for the candidates in general elections. There is an easy viable alternative for the folks you think are the real Republicans but Nikki Haley lost to none of the above last night.

You and others are right about the GOP coalition that has
by sorin69  (2024-02-08 08:50:39)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Cannot reply

prevailed for several decades now. Those who deny it are kidding themselves. Mitt Romney had his come to the Mormon Jesus moment when he confronted a howling crowd in his own state. I could instance conservative commentators from Max Boot to the late Michael Gerson to Peter Wehner to David French who have belatedly, to their credit, owned up to their failure to admit with whom they had made a political bed.

Yeah, but you still underestimate the number IMO
by ocnd  (2024-02-07 16:17:36)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Cannot reply

Sure, the people you describe are definitely the base. But add in:

- Pro lifers
- Evangelicals
- People convinced he's somehow better for their 401(k) or economy overall, or a "successful business owner."
- Culture warriors (transgenderism, etc.)
- Immigration hawks

Aren't these "true Republicans?"
*lefties* *
by Kali4niaND  (2024-02-07 15:00:06)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Cannot reply

FLD
by ACross  (2024-02-07 15:53:55)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Cannot reply

Used food eater.
if that is the case then why do they continue to fall in
by wpkirish  (2024-02-07 14:53:42)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Cannot reply

line? If the base is a small percentage of "true Republicans" how have they effectively taken over the party? Explain all the people who have sworn off their allegiance to Trump only to run back to him. If you are correct why dont Cheney and Kinzinger have a home in the party.

You may not agree with me but far from having my head up my ass I am simply looking at the results. Keep in mind in 2020 there were a minimum of 11 million people who did not vote for Trump in 2016 and came out to vote for him in 2020. Given the fact there voters who switched from Trump to Biden the actual number is probably more like 17 million new Trump voters in 2020 (that assumes 10% of Trump 2016 voters switched).

The total numbers are irrelevant in the end. Politicians respond to those who vote and the Republican voter today is not the "true Republicans" you reference. And the fact is the gun freaks and pro life absolutists you dismiss have long been a part of the Repiblican coalition.

If you are correct we should soon see the resuts in primaries.