In reply to: Not necessarily true... posted by Jimbo Irish
Or Nikki Haley?
C'mon. Republicans and Democrats have policy differences. That doesn't make the opposition 'evil'. I don't know if I would even consider Trump 'evil'. In addition to being incompetent, intellectually deficient and immoral, I do think his Presidency would be dangerous. But mostly due to the people in his orbit who would be placed in positions of power. At least in Trump's first term, those that surrounded him were more or less establishment Republicans who were able to restrain Trump's worst natures. That won't be the case if he wins a second term. Only MAGA loyalists need apply for spots in the Trump administration. And based on what I've read in the Project 2025 plan, he intends to place loyalists throughout every level of government.
...and a threat to the union.
I think a case can be made regarding Biden's competence. He is absolutely no threat and has expressed, implied or done anything that makes him a threat.
Trump reminds us daily that he is a threat to the American experiment. Trump's words aren't my opinion. Trump's insurrection isn't my opinion. Trump's liability for sexual assault and fraud is not my opinion. His failure to accept the rule of law and the peaceful transfer of power are not my opinion.
Biden wants to make access to abortion a constitutional right. The Democratic Party has one position. Abortion is the single most important right. It can not be limited in anyway. The first and second amendments can be limited or eliminated.
So some of us do see a reason not to vote for Biden and other Democrats.
Just to be clear, I am not saying anything positive about Trump.
what is the Republican party position on the death penalty?
These were convicted criminals judged by a jury of their peers who exhausted their due process appeals and did not receive clemency.
On the other hand, more than 600,000 babies were aborted.
I am Pro-life to include being anti-death penalty. I had a change of heart about 10-12 years ago. So I see the point you're trying to make.
However, the magnitude of evil and injustice between the effect of legalized capital punishment is not comparable to the evil of abortion.
None of what I wrote is to be construed as political or Trump vs Biden. Just a pet peeve of the abortion vs cap punishment comparison.
and I'm anti-death penalty. I'd add that to compare a serial rapist-murderer's life being ended to that of a perfectly innocent and helpless baby is not a strong argument. The rapist-murderer gets free legal counsel, endless appeals, and the beyond a reasonable doubt standard. The baby gets "we're not sure when life begins, so it's between a woman and her doctor."
I am also pro life and anti death penalty. I'm also an advocate for smarter gun safety rules. In general, I think that we have an unhealthy obsession with death and killing in this country; the "culture of death" that the holy Father John Paul 2 warned about.
That said, I despise when people pick and choose which teachings of the Church to use as a defense and when a person intends to label an entire group of people the way that the OP did, it bugs me.
If Dems were pushing to replace the death penalty to life without parole in a manner that could be stomached by those concerned with heinous criminals walking the streets again, I think Catholics in good conscience would have to take those proposals seriously. Alas, I'm not aware of that being a significant part of any current policy debate.
Catholics should rejoice when there are fewer babies aborted however that occurs whether its through education, crisis pregancy centers, policies that support mothers facing violence, etc. The same can be true for the death penalty, which has been relegated to an extremely unlikely to be used tool. Catholics should also be worried about policy blow back. If they were able to successfully get rid of legal abortion or death penalty in all circumstances, isn't it quite possible that the rope gets pulled back too strongly in the other policy direction? That should be considered.
"Catholics should rejoice when there are fewer babies aborted however that occurs whether its through education, crisis pregancy centers, policies that support mothers facing violence, etc. " -- Yes. Support of families in poverty, economic opportunity, etc
One group only supports cutting supply while, apparently, not caring about demand.
I'm anti-abortion (while recognizing the medical need for it to exist) and anti-death penalty, while being in support of programs to assist moms and moms-to-be, provided stats show they make a difference.
I think you're using it as an excuse to vote for Trump.
Your First and Second Amendment comments are laughable. Though, I don't think there's anything intrinsically evil about limiting the Second Amendment, even if I don't agree with it. I have seen it used to commit a lot of evil.
I think the Democrats are evil rhetoric is just that. Rhetoric. To justify supporting someone they know to be evil.
not evil. I mentioned them to compare the Democratic Party's radical position on abortion to two fundamental rights actually listed in the Constitution.
of the position of Democrats on abortion is incorrect.
I have also missed the Democratic calls for eliminating the First Amendment,
edit: It is true that the parties have staked out their positions on abortion. There are few, if any, pro-life Democrats left and few, if any, pro choice Republicans left. If you view abortion as the deciding issue for you, it’s plausible that you don’t want to vote for any Democrat.
However, I think you can make that point without grossly distorting their position.
amending the constitution to change the second amendment. Some calling for repeal or sever restrictions.
Regarding the first amendment there have been many calls for restrictions.
The DHS was planning on creating a group to handle disinformation and misinformation. The FBI told the social media companies to clamp down on COVID and Hunter's laptop posts.
I only mentioned them to compare to the Democratic Party's strong abortion policies. I have said abortion is the most important, to the point it is greater than 50% weighting, on determining who I will vote for.
The accusation is that it is merely an excuse to vote for Trump. I voted against Hillary, I voted against Biden and I will vote against Biden again.
is what supports your claim that Democrats want to “eliminate” the first smendment?
Abortion is important to you and on that issue, you don’t intend to vote for Democrats. Perhaps you could stop there rather justifying your choice with unsupported apocalyptic claims.
The point I am trying to make is abortion appears to be more important to Democrats than the first and second amendments. People can vote against Democrats on policy.
The poster I responded to said evil. And accused me of using it as an excuse to vote for Trump.
You seem to have missed mine: That your claims, as they apply to the position of the Democratic party on the first amendment spring pretty much from your determination to believe them.
about, but having someone like Trump (who has already shown his colors) is preferable to something that doesn’t affect you?
I’m not saying vote for Biden, but I don’t see why you’d vote for Trump.
Board need to learn the value of an unexpressed thought.
I don't love drive buy poster slams. I see you've indicated you were joking, so my apologies.
Jerry Falwell?
Like many here, I am a practicing Catholic. Like many here I went to Notre Dame knowing it was a Catholic school. Fr. Hesburgh liked to say "The Catholic university is where the Church does its thinking." I assumed he included ND.
So, is the fact that I follow the Church's teaching, on one of the most important issues, make me out to be Jerry Falwell?
Do you believe the Church is wrong on abortion? Do you think it is no big deal?
although some people are into that sort of thing, I suppose.