Not sure how much control you have over reffing
by pmoose (2021-04-15 12:03:44)

In reply to: Youth soccer recs  posted by 570tosb


but better reffing training would be my advice. I'm pretty laid back typically about the reffing. I can even tolerate a ref that doesn't call too much as long as it's going both ways. What has gotten me to be yelling at the refs is when the calls are clearly one-sided, or when a hard foul doesn't even get a call (let alone a card), or when yellow cards are handed out on minor fouls.

I have a couple of examples in the past year on this. One game, the scheduled ref did not show up and the kid line judge who was maybe 14 or 15 ended up being the main ref. I think he was also local to that soccer club and ended up being easily intimidated by the opposing coach. Our girls have never been hit so much and hard with very few calls. Plus, the barking from the opposing coach was getting the ref to call out of bound balls towards him even when they weren't. To be clear on this one, it wasn't the kid's fault - the game shouldn't have even been played, but when you drive 2+ hours to play, you'd rather get the game in.

Second one was from this past weekend. Guy looked like he somewhat knew what he was doing, but made some head-scratching calls. Gave one of our girls a yellow card when her and another girl ran into each other. I wouldn't have been bothered (much) if they had called the foul on her, but I thought there was no foul, and certainly no where close to a yellow. The guy missed multiple hand balls, including one in the box too.

I know this is going to sound funny after what I have written, but if you don't have it already, put together a parents' code of conduct. Also, not sure if there's already a ref evaluation process for coaches to provide feedback on how well a game was reffed, but that is something that is done in IN for the travel leagues.


I had to get out of reffing because it was so miserable
by ndtnguy  (2021-04-15 13:12:39)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

I reffed a ton in junior high and high school: centers on rec leagues and later on kids' travel games, and lines on all levels of youth competition. Between flak from parents and coaches and the general discomfort of spending all day cold and wet at a soccer complex with no food and few bathroom facilities, I said forget it. The whole experience really soured me on soccer altogether.

I can't imagine any of it has gotten better (except maybe the facilities) in the 17 years since I hung up my cleats. If the reffing sucks, it's probably because, well, reffing sucks.


100% agree. The refs affect the entire tenor of the league. *
by Giggity_Giggity  (2021-04-15 12:33:56)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


officiating in all sports has gotten worse, IMO
by jt  (2021-04-15 12:30:05)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

not sure if it is in response to issues with parents/coaches/players complaining about calls or whatever, but there has been a noticeable drop in quality of officiating and a dramatic increase in confrontations started and escalated by officials.

Just in the past week, I've seen umpires staring down 14 year old boys who were just asking for clarification, umpires throwing a coach out for not properly requesting time out to speak to his pitcher, numerous poor strike/ball calls, clearly one sided calls to one team, etc. That's just baseball; football is worse, and basketball is about the same.

I think that there is just such a shortage of quality guys that they're hiring anyone and everyone to do the job and these guys aren't getting properly trained. You can have parents code of conduct as much as you want, but a poor official will escalate these situations and make things worse.


Agree
by elcortez01  (2021-04-15 13:04:24)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Twice this season, as a basketball coach, I had an official stop the game to run across the court to get in my face and start an argument. Both times there were no escalating factors prior. Once for me yelling, "10 seconds" after what should have been a violation and another for me yelling, "Stop, somebodies going to get hurt" as the ref tried to inbounds the ball 10 seconds after a blatant foul as my girl lay crying at the other end of the court.

Multiple other times I've witnessed referees instigating arguments with parents and other coaches.

I've vowed once my kids are older and I have the time, to come back and referee and turn over my pay to our youth league.


Good refs are invaluable. A couple years ago my son slammed
by wpkirish  (2021-04-15 13:02:50)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

the ball after what he thought was a bad call. Not in a wind up and throw it manner but a hard two hand slam right back into his hands. The ref who did not make the call came over put his arm around his shoulder and walk him a few feet away and explained why he shouldn't do that and why he wouldn't be doing it again.

Could have called a T which would have hurt the team but handled it in a way that got the lesson thought to a 7th grader.

A good ref has a short memory and a thick skin. Too many show up with an attitude they are going to show who the boss is. Particularly in a community soccer league they should see themselves as part of the education of the game.


Curious on how others view this
by Nobilo  (2021-04-15 13:18:54)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

I tend to agree with this poster that at youth levels Ref should be part of education of the game.

It mystifies me in U10 or U11 when the ref doesn’t explain to the players what’s happening. It takes forever for a corner kick or spot kick because the Ref signals and the kids have no idea what to do.

I get the kids need to learn the rules / signals, and the coaches need to devote some time...but at young ages I think the learning curve would improve if the Refs were encouraged to communicate more clearly and “teach” the rules.


That requires mentoring
by wcnitz  (2021-04-15 13:28:37)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

And there just aren't enough referees to do it.

Part of the problem is that for every competition under USSF, if it's 7v7 or 9v9 it still requires 3 referees. Only 5v5 is 1.


Is this league under USSF?
by wcnitz  (2021-04-15 12:07:22)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

If so, the refereeing training is performed by your state youth soccer association and according to FIFA guidelines.

I should add that the lower the level, the more likely you're going to get inexperienced referees. There is just no way around that. Right now, should feel lucky to even have referees.


We are in the higher level leagues
by pmoose  (2021-04-15 12:20:38)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

I don't pretend to understand how the assignments work right now, but this is G13's league, and she is on the premiere team. Usually, I don't have much to say about the refs - they make some good calls, they make some bad ones, but overall solid refs. The 2 I mentioned were the most egregious, and one situation shouldn't have even happened - that kid had no business being out there..


The shortage is a real problem
by wcnitz  (2021-04-15 12:24:18)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Obviously the severity will vary by region. My son could be centering u17 or u18 games if they allowed it - and he's *playing* in u17 currently. Minors shouldn't be centering full sided matches until they're at least 17, but there's so few referees the guardrails are out of whack. And most kids quit officiating after they're done with HS, if not sooner.


There is a real shortage
by 96_ND  (2021-04-15 12:34:19)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

A year ago my son played on a U-10 club team. For our Sunday games kids from the local college soccer team refereed the games. As a parent, coach, and referee myself I can honestly say they were terrible.

The issue goes beyond making bad calls. When a referee is that incompetent the game can get out of control and it becomes unsafe for the kids. The parents were really letting these refs have it, which is one of the reasons why there are so few refs.

I can't tell you how many e-mails I have gotten already from assignors this year looking for people to do games. Part of the issue is time. This past fall I usually did two games on a Saturday. With my schedule this year I am not sure how many games I will get to do in the Spring. None of the parents I know have any interest in refereeing. Between the time commitment and the garbage you hear from the sidelines it really isn't worth it.


I don't see a problem with a parent letting a ref have it
by pmoose  (2021-04-15 13:54:49)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

if the game is out of control and they think someone is going to get hurt. Part of the problem is that these refs don't take control of the game, even if they aren't making great calls.

One thing I will say about the ref I complained about last weekend is that he didn't lost control of the game. He just made terrible calls.

And to be clear, I think it is appropriate for parents to have a quick outburst when they think there is a fairly significant bad call, but it should be a quick comment and should be left at that.


Then you are part of the problem.
by grnd  (2021-04-15 15:21:29)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Nothing you say to a ref is going to do anything except make you feel better and probably piss off the ref. And you might cause an otherwise good ref to conclude it isn't worth it and stop. There is already a shortage of refs for soccer.


On top of that
by wcnitz  (2021-04-15 15:41:39)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

The younger the referee, the more the yelling is going to increase their anxiety and make their judgement worse.


it's a cycle
by wcnitz  (2021-04-15 12:41:20)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Coaches and parents berate referees, the younger ones tend to quit because of it. Enter less experienced referee, cycle repeats.

When a 20 year grade 6 referee gets screamed at by coaches who have been coaching for 1/4 of that time, in a local league match, why should the 16 year old keep working when he's going to be treated even worse?

The most respectful people involved are the players themselves. That really says a lot.


I should have made my response above here *
by ndtnguy  (2021-04-15 14:06:03)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


I keep doing it because I love the game and the kids
by wcnitz  (2021-04-15 15:44:22)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

All others involved in the process are secondary in terms of importance. I focus on that when I hear chirping from people that don't matter. it's also why I focus on youth matches and try to do most of my center work in the u12-u16 age range.