It's not shocking, but it's shitty. They just added a top 10 player, the #1 CB in this class, to an already very good group that is rated above ours. Mack Brown can still recruit, that's for sure.
I don't think Brian Kelly is capable of winning a title, but he'd have a far better shot if he had worked a helluva lot harder on it the last ten years.
President James E. Rohr Director Of Athletics, we concluded that the best person to replace the best recruiter on staff already was at Notre Dame. Are you now suggesting that he got it wrong? Brian Kelly and Jack Swarbrick have been laboring unceasingly for 11 years to keep Notre Dame in the conversation. Coach Kelly has been a head coach for 30 years. I know because he said so. Coach Kelly even said recently that he wants to win a National Championship. Is that enough for you? Are you never satisfied? It is a process! An eleven year process!! If it takes another 11 years to get it right. Who are you to question it? Trust him. If he thinks he can win without defensive backs so be it. Brian Kelly will find a way. I know that he will and Jack Swarbrick and Father Jenkins will be there to back him up irregardless. Trust Jack. He has been around great coaches all his life and career.
We're nationwide.
Looks like he's committing to Alabama in a couple hours.
Mike Elston got around to offering him 28 days ago, apparently in reaction to #335 overall David Abiara's news of likely decommitting and committing to OU.
Turner is an elite DE with strong grades from a program with which ND has history...and Elston and staff didn't even bother to recruit him.
An excerpt from a recent interview with Turner (247 Sports):
"One of the coaches (Director of Recruiting Aaryn Kearney) had been in touch with me since my freshman year,” said Turner. “He got in touch not too long ago again and he was touching base with me and asking about my grades. I showed him I had a 4.0 GPA. The defensive line coach (Mike Elston) texted me later on that day and then they gave me the offer."
3 stars are easier to recruit than 4 stars.
On some of the ND sites, the recruiting guys are wondering why Elston doesn't have more luck signing 4-star DE's. Especially given that he seems to do a good job of coaching and developing the DE's he has had.
In the last 4 recruiting cycles--ND has signed only one 4-star DE.
You can't sign them if you don't really try. And Kelly & Company don't really try. I think the assistants take their cue from Kelly and take the easy path. That means they focus on the 3 stars.
That is why it is such an insult for Kelly to claim he is interested in "winning a title". His actions speak louder than his empty words. No coach interested in winning a title would take such an awful approach to recruiting.
The last 2 classes alone have (4) 4* recruits- Mills, Fosky, Nana, Cross. 247 Linked below.
In fact, in the same 2 classes, ND has signed only 1 3* DE, with Ehrensberger. So, 4 out of the last 5 DE signees were 4 star. Per 247 Sports.
But yes, the staff only takes 3 star defensive ends, because its easier.
To be clear: Nobody is saying the recruiting is remotely good enough. Top 15 classes, top 15 program. But lazily exaggerating everything over and over certainly doesn't help the conversation. I suggest anyone inclined to listen to Mike Frank's Power Hour this week. It was dedicated entirely to the '21 recruiting. Very honest and level-headed. Typical of Mike Frank and his guys.
it includes the #32 overall player in the 2021 class (ranked just 4 spots below Tyler Buchner) as well as the #344 overall player in the 2021 class.
The term is often used by fans and ND recruiting sites to puff up the recruit's status.
The South Bend Tribune, several weeks ago, ran these two headlines side by side:
"Clemson beats Notre Dame for four-star RB Will Shipley's commitment"
"Four-star CB Philip Riley commits to Notre Dame"
You've tried this before.
This was the comment in question:
"In the last 4 recruiting cycles--ND has signed only one 4-star DE. You can't sign them if you don't really try. And Kelly & Company don't really try. I think the assistants take their cue from Kelly and take the easy path. That means they focus on the 3 stars."
Preposterously inaccurate. 4 out of 5 of the last DEs ND signed are 4 star. Rivals has Spears as a DE too. So is it 5 out of 6? Such utter bullshit.
It makes using the term “4 star” asinine and meaningless.
Recruits have to be rated somehow. At least attempt to utilize accurate statistics.
The recruiting sites want paying fans’ credit cards being hit every month, and the best way to do that is to make every fanbase hopeful and excited for the future. So more “4 stars” equals more feel-good recruiting classes, more feel-good commits and recruiting chases for more fan bases. Stir in some false-hope articles, string folks along, then wash, rinse, repeat.
Their revenue model is based entirely on blowing sunshine up your ass. Added benefit is this model keeps them in good graces with the athletic departments who can hurt their business if they deny access. You’ll never see an article on a recruiting site about which commits are overrated, never a negative word.
A secondary benefit is more recruits allocated as “4 stars” means more engagement with the supply side, so to speak. More better players is simply good for business, even though it doesn’t really work that way. More interviews, PR/excitement around camps and “earning” another star.
A great marketing trap all the way around.
If you are looking for comparative research, I believe the best way is to use 247 Sports’ Composite ranking for overall team rankings and player rankings.
Defensive End recruiting, 2017-2021:
#962 Jonathan MacCollister
Unranked Kofi Wardlow
#545 Ovie Oghoufo
#630 Justin Ademilola
#211 Isaiah Foskey
#298 Nana Osafo-Mensah
#119 Jordan Botelho
#159 Rylie Mills
Unranked Alexander Ehrensberger
#336 David Abiara
#573 Jason Onye
By your own account the recruiting is not remotely good enough(quite true) and then you quibble with Mr.E and Hanratty.
Your lack of understanding is nothing if not consistent. See thread linked below.
Lazy, exaggerated, undefended and factually wrong "drive-by" posts don't exactly raise the discourse around here. But that's all part of the schtick I guess.
Remember, after one of the most embarrassing losses in school history in Ann Arbor last season (in which Elston's D-Line received a nice ass-pounding), all ND had to do was win out over a bunch of creampuffs and all would be well, per Kelly.
10 wins...if that's a stock, you'd buy it - per Kelly.
Admin and it's PR tentacles (Irish Illustrated, Irish Sports Daily, et al.) also constantly pound the "10-win" phraseology.
And the schedule has been modified to make it a fairly easy mark.
other four and you get ten wins.
...oh, hold on a sec....
right now.
I don't disagree (lame-ass OL and OC hires, for example); but if you have more context, I'd appreciate it.
do you really think he's working the phones 24/7 now with recruits? Or do you think he's at his beach house turning purple?
Given the recruiting trend, my guess is the latter.
The context has been unfolding before us for a long time now.
You already know.
He doesn't give a crap anymore and neither does the administration.
Freaking scandalous how they smugly pissed it all away, even as they shoved more neon and plastic down everyone's throats.
Completely bereft of vision and leadership at all levels.
Vic Morrow didn't put up with any of this crap.
COVID is an obvious excuse this time.
offering up the bullshit rationalization.
For the average out-of-state student, UNC is highly competitive. We know a good number of very good students from our kids' high school classes who have been rejected from UNC, including some who got into places like Notre Dame, Cal, Michigan, Columbia and Princeton. Of course, for athletes, UNC would be more likely to make an admissions exception than ND.
Regardless, this is about our staff getting outwitted and outworked.
admissions policy significantly in April, not just for next year, but for the next three years. It would have been a permanent change but for someone interjecting for three years to start with, but you can bet this is a permanent change. Unfortunately, more than a few colleges are dropping their standards to pander for students and their tuition. TL;DR version of linked article (keep your eye on the conjunctions):
=======================================================
Old standard: Applicants must have a minimum GPA of 2.5 (a “C+” average) and an SAT score of 880 (or ACT score of 17).
New standard: Applicants must have a minimum GPA of 2.5 (a “C+” average) OR an SAT score of 1010 (or ACT score of 19). (Note: you must take at least one of the standardized tests and submit a score.)
========================================================
The problem here is that colleges are complaining of grade-inflation coming out of the high schools and standardize testing is one way to see where a student really stands. I have no doubt Mack Brown is a good-to-great recruiter, but I have to believe the admissions policy also plays a part.
Brown is recruiting better because he and his staff put in more effort into recruiting.
It's just that simple.
Only one year, but it's part of a "pilot program".
Many schools understandably did that because of the coronavirus, but many will also use this excuse as a way to drive down standards and keep tuition-paying students coming through the door, especially when they are going to take a financial hit this year at many levels (summer camps, varsity athletics, room and board, etc.).
I've never been inspired by another adult in my life.
Never had someone say something to me that I bought hook, line and sinker. I never went to a job because some other adult persuaded me to go to it.
I didn't pick ND over other schools because someone encouraged me or promised me something.
So, I don't get how some 70 year old dude tells a recruit, "I think you'd be the best version of you if you come to this school!" and the 18yo kid and his parents eat it up.
They must know it's all salesman schtick, right?
if your goal is to play in the NFL, who will you trust to help you become the best version of you? Grimes has spoken specifically about this.
NFL career ranks pretty low on totem pole of recruiting skill. Effort, personality and connections are much more important. I don’t see anything in Dre Bly’s background on its face that indicates he would have been a better hire than Mickens.
and that Bly may be better equipped to help him reach those goals.
Certainly Lyght had credentials along those lines, too. Perhaps he lacked in effort, personality, and connections.
I suspect elite offensive recruits have the same questions/concerns when they look at who will be their OC for the next 3-4 years.
Or at least that Brown is putting Bly in a position to be successful.
Dre Bly is a complete novice both as a coach and as a recruiter. Despite what recruiting analysts say, I don’t think he pulls in a top 10 recruit without support and input from a veteran head coach like Brown.
Whether its his personality, effort, or his picking assistants who are good recruiters, he has always recruited well.
Rutgers is also ranked ahead of ND right now in recruiting.
Rutgers!
I realize that it is skewed because they have more commits, but still.
I blame Covid-19.
They just have 21 players, like you said. They're technically ahead of Auburn, FSU, and Penn State right now too, but no one believes that. Average rating is the telling figure, and by that measure we're somewhere around 8th right now. Of course we'll finish poorly and other teams will jump us and we'll end up somewhere around 12-15 per usual and the beat goes on.
So you'd rather have a 10-recruit class with all, say ".93" rated recruits instead of a 20-recruit class with 10 ".93" recruits and 10 ".85" recruits because it'd have a higher star rating?
ND's class would be better if Jason Onye, Pat Coogan and Ryan Barnes decommit and sign elsewhere?
There's value in quality and quantity. 247 Composite is the best ranking system.
"Average star rating" is promoted by ND fan sites and the South Bend Tribune when they are trying to blow sunshine up their customers' asses.
and Mr. Mediocrity will be hard pressed to get those 8 wins he
claimed initially as his goal. Any comments about winning a NC
are a fantasy.
Wasn't ND rated 16-17th the past 2 years in recruiting?
ND will struggle to stay in the top 20 the way things are looking.
And their top rated recruit(QB) will most likely see a ratings drop based on early reports from the Elite 11.
He must have had a great second day. Elite 11 just released their rankings which are based “50% on junior film and 50% on current camp performance”, and he is 2nd overall behind only that kid from DC who is likely Oklahoma bound and is supposed to be the next Trevor Lawrence/Andrew Luck level prospect.
the #1 overall CB in the 2021 recruiting class.