Oh, you'll deal with "struggles"...
by Wass (2023-06-02 09:40:09)

In reply to: I believe two other options exist.  posted by MrE


...and not just for a year or two. You fail to realize that college football is changes whether we like it or not. You either find a way to adapt or you become irrelevant. You can put all the hate on transfers you want, but it isn't going to stop everyone else from taking them. You can build from the bottom up all you want, but it isn't going to stop players from transferring out or other schools from poaching your players. You may not like it, but your roster will be perpetually depleted and you will have holes in your roster. That's the way it is now. "We do it differently" is fine but it sure isn't going to fill roster holes.


Why does the team have roster holes?
by MrE  (2023-06-02 09:44:04)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Bad recruiting?
Bad development?
Pushing players out?
Which ND players have left for big money elsewhere?

Reading your post, it appears there are two solutions (other than patience or hiring an elite HC):

1) Pay recruits and current players fair market value (I might get behind that, but would prefer a structured system rather than the rogue system in which ND and others are participating today).

2) Churn the bottom 10% of the ND roster, oversign, push committed recruits out of the class for better prospects - in essence, getting current with the times.


Dabo Sweeney is getting decimated by the new reality
by acrossdmiddle  (2023-06-02 12:16:59)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

He’s had to adapt and accept transfers. He’s as good a coach as there is not named Saban. The jury is still out on Freeman but I won’t blame him for taking a graduate transfer from Stanford if he’s a credit to the team and the university. I really admire your posts and fully admit you’re more informed than I am when it comes to ND football but I disagree with you in this case.


No doubt. Swinney, in the last 2 yrs, has taken a transfer
by MrE  (2023-06-02 12:54:12)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

QB. This year it appears Tyson is a depth replacement for losing DJ U.

Last year it looks like Clemson lost QB Taisun Phommachanh in the portal to Ga Tech, and he is now at UMass.

Swinney is leaking out numbers as guys are leaving Clemson with eligibility remaining (11 so far this year).

I'm not sure if he is pushing them out, or if they are leaving on their own accord. He obviously doesn't have the new-coach loophole to leverage.

I'd find it impressive if Swinney was not pushing them out (sad commentary on big time CFB, IMO), and would not blame him for bringing in transfers to help round out his numbers.


I’m not close enough to it to be certain
by acrossdmiddle  (2023-06-02 13:13:53)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

But my understanding is that he’s not been pushing them out. Instead, he’s been stubbornly trying to keep his promises to the players he recruited by not taking transfers to recruit over them (more to plug holes left by transfers). He’s learning the hard way that his approach will yield a quick slide out of the top ten.


Seriously?
by Wass  (2023-06-02 10:03:08)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

What alternate reality do you live in? Do you really think every player will turn out based on how many star they were rated in high school? Do you really think no one else recruits good players or that players actually want to go to another school because they actually like that school? Do you actually think that players will never transfer out and leave a hole in the roster? In the late 80s and early 90s, ND had an excellent coaching staff and guess what? Players transferred out. Some highly rated players didn't pan out. Some HS players went to places like Miami and FSU because they liked it there.


I don't share Mr. E's aversion to taking in transfers.
by tdiddy07  (2023-06-02 10:21:15)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

(Though I very much do share his disdain for persuading kids to leave in order to make room for them.) I think we should've brought in a transfer QB last year. I think it was a no-brainer to do so this year. And, so long as there is legitimately room, I would use the portal to upgrade our roster.

But his fundamental critique of the state of Notre Dame recruiting is unimpeachable. We have historically not recruited to a level necessary to compete for a championship. We're scratching and clawing to get into the back end of the Top 10. The holes that are left when our guys transfer are larger than the holes when elite teams have transfers.

Yes, players transferred out under Holtz. But not at nearly the same rate, and Holtz had elite recruiting classes every year. The rosters were loaded and could generally absorb that. Now, rarely did a player transfer out who was expected to start or be in the regular rotation. That's not the same as today. Increasingly, if a spot isn't guaranteed a role, they will transfer before summer camp. So that puts the onus on making sure you have enough talented guys to upgrade the level of the position battles that are happening. Of course, all highly rated players don't pan out. That's why you need to regularly sign enough that one of them will.

And I don't see any way that ND can outperform teams in acquiring transfers. So it is going to need to significantly upgrade recruiting. long-term.


well said. I don't have total aversion to taking transfers.
by MrE  (2023-06-02 10:41:42)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

I do have an aversion to how this particular season/off-season is panning out, and that context is important.

I have no issue with Micah Shrewsberry's current roster building.