Ace is next into the Ring of Honor
by SB Jimbo (2019-09-09 17:51:12)
Edited on 2019-09-09 17:52:59

11/8 vs Loyola Maryland


I'll always wonder what would've happened without her injury
by Kayo  (2019-09-10 16:03:08)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Achonwa was the best player in the tournament though four games - 30 of 42 from the field (79%), 22 of 28 at the line (also 79%) with 39 rebounds. She would have kicked Stephanie Dolson's ass in the finals.


still would have had to deal with
by WaxonWaxoff  (2019-09-11 00:07:33)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Breanna Stewart


True, by that time she was a 1 girl wrecking crew. *
by Jon  (2019-09-11 14:44:23)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


Well-Deserved Honor for Ace....
by dillon77  (2019-09-10 11:42:15)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

...that is in encapsulated in this Coach MdGraw quote from the press release:

“Natalie was instrumental in taking our program from a Sweet 16 team to a perennial Final Four team. She took great pride in representing Notre Dame and continues to make us proud,” Karen & Kevin Keyes Family Head Coach Muffet McGraw stated. “She was a great leader on and off the court, and one of the smartest players I’ve ever coached — just a highly intelligent player with great vision. She worked hard, was super competitive and always did the things that don’t show up on a stat sheet."

Lot of checkmarks ticked off there:
- A Winner
- A Continual Striver
- Leader
- Smart on and off court
- Competitive
- Worked Hard
- Did the Dirty Work

Sounds like the kind of elevator pitch that will be given to every future McGraw-era player.

Ace helped move the needle for the program for sure and one of all of our major disappointments (I'm sure) was when she went down with her knee injury in the NCAA's. UConn was loaded that year, but ND -- with Ace -- was a challenge.

ND's been blessed at the high post for a number of years, with Ace, Kat Westbeld and Jess in her senior year.

Switching point of view just a bit here to the selection. From what I undestand, these decision are made solely by the basketball staff, there's been an emphasis on that Skylar-Kmac-Ace timeframe, which all fit that "Sweet 16 to perennial Final 4" shift that MM refers to.

Given what txirish74 reports, I doubt we'll see Jewell Loyd up for consideration any time soon. And I think it's a wee bit early for the team associated with the latest championship.

So, I can't help but wonder what's up with not having Katryna Gaither so honored. A quick look at her Wikipedia writeup:
"She ranks fourth on the school’s all-time scoring list with 2,126 career points. She is only one of the five players in school history to have scored over 2,000 points. Additionally, she is the school’s leading rebounder with 986 rebounds."

Beth Morgan Cunningham and Gaither pushed ND into their first final four and helped set the stage for Ruth Riley, Niele Ivey, Alicia Ratay and others to procure the first NCAA championship.

Think it would make sense to "go back in time" to reward those efforts before the focus shifts to the latest NCAA-winning team.


Agree on Katryna Gaither (and an interesting question)
by NDoggie78  (2019-09-10 12:43:14)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

3 other members of the Top 5 in scoring are already on the Ring (and obviously, Arike will be there soon).

Arike is a given, but how many other members of the National Championship (almost two) team will make the Ring of Honor? (I'd consider them all)

Besides that group, I think you have to consider Jewell Loyd (even if she doesn't finish degree) and Jacqueline Batteast

Next in line might be Alicia Ratay and Natalie Novosel

And Devereaux Peters and Lindsey Allen


Quick Thoughts on Who Could/Should Be Next ...
by dillon77  (2019-09-10 13:50:08)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

... in part, because we had that poll a year, year+ ago.

Don't Think They'll Name 2018 Championship Players This Early, so will first go with All Others:

1) K. Gaither (for reasons mention in previous post)
2) A. Ratay (the three point shooter (and more), NCAA Natty Ring holder)
3) J. Batteast (great player, local icon)

Possible Others: L. Allen, M. Duffy, N. Novosel, D. Peters.
- I think Loyd is being held back not so much by just three years, but a decidedly "eh" vibe.
- Lindsay Allen. Think she needs to do a bit more in pro career...

In terms of the 2018 Nat'l. Champions and 2019 Runners-Up (mostly the same, save for Turner in for Westbeld), some thoughts.

- Arike Ogunbowale: Yes, the leading scorer and "the shots." Three-year starter, to boot.
- Jess Shepard: Does the two-year (only) thing hold her back?. Still: No Shep, no championship ... end of story. She was that good.
- Marina Mabrey: Three-year starter, great long-range shooter who helped team (perhaps at expense of her own shooting) when there were no PG's. Still, is National Championship the differentiating factor over, say, Natalie Novosel and/or Maddie Cable?
- Jackie Young: This is a hard one because we all know she will continue to improve in the pro's. Still, she "only" started for two years and while a stud when needed and in key games (UConn semi), she deferred to others in scoring.
- Kat Westbeld: Fine, solid career and a personal fave. But do you get in the rafters largely for leadership, smarts and things that are not in the stat sheet?
- Brianna Turner. Played in two NC games and -- unfairly, in my opinion =- is sometimes judged by not becoming the breakout scorer that folks wanted/expected her to be. What she did become was one of the best defensive players and rebounders.

Welcome other thoughts!




Putting Someone on the Rafters
by hempfield75  (2019-09-10 19:05:44)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

I pretty much agree with all your points. I think you did an outstanding
job of identifying and demonstrating which players deserve the honor. You
are right about the 2018 being to early for the honor. So many players that
been waiting a while deserve the honor. Can not keep pushing them back.
They would never get in. Here are a few more comments.

...I watched Batteast play and she was great. So I would pick here next
over Gaines and Ratay.

...I think there is so many players out there that deserve the honor. Why not for the time being vote 2 in at at time before they are all in wheel chairs.

...I am also a big fan of D Peters. Without her the team does not do as
well as they did. She was a force on offense and defense.

...Next I agree with Duffy and Novosel

...This is where I need to make apoint. It is not just about numbers that
decides win or lose. It is the intangibles the player brings to the plate
that also decides if you win or lose. Many players are in the hall not
based on numbers but what they did physically and with the brain god gave
us all. This is my reasoning for the next few picks.

...Kat, Bri, and LA The opponents had to factor in those players and keep
a strong eye on them to beat ND. Defense, rebounding, shotblocking, passing
vision, effort, loyalty, guts, determination. That is what is key to those
3. How many times did they play injured when others would sit. You do not
win without them.

...My next three are for the same reasons as above. MM, Marina, and Jess.
It is obvious no Jess and Marina. No national title. Jess and Bri together
was a nightmare for any team to beat. Marina could hit from the parking
lot if she had to. MM had the leadership, drive, determination, will
power and love for the game and ND that deserves to hang from the
rafters.

...Jackie is one of my favorites of all time. She is the true team player
that would do anything for the team to be first. She could play almost
every position on the court. How many guards to lead a game in rebounds.
If that is not enough how about assists. Do not forget her defense. She
was always put on the number 1 guard. When the game was on the line and
you needed points. Jackie we need your help now. Because she was so
unselfish. She did not score as much as she was capable of. That is why
she was drafted uno.

...That is my picks for now. I would leave Jewell off for the time being.
There are others that have earned this honor before her. I also do not
want her to be treated like another Shoeless Joe Jackson. That never got
the honors he deserved. On the court performance was as good as any player
we had. It is the intangibles that holds her back. You can have good
intangibles but also have bad ones. Jewell needs a little more time. But
she should eventually be up there.

...Ops I did forget two. They are both coaches. One I can not remember
her name but I know you all know her. She waS first head coach in NDWBB.
She got this all started and did a great job until MM came and took over.
The other coach is no other than assistant coach of the year, Carol
Owens. Without her knowledge, leadership, and loyalty. Again this team
does not produce the great players that ND has.

...Now that was my 2 cents. Sorry I was alittle long. Broke my promise
of keeping my post short.

SEG/Chief


Argument for Mabrey & Turner for sure
by NDoggie78  (2019-09-10 14:58:19)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

While scoring isn't the only qualifying stat, Brianna Turner is 6th All-time in scoring. Ahead of Lloyd, Batteast, Ratay, Novosel, Allen, & Peters who we have mentioned for consideration to the Ring.
And she is ahead of McBride, Ivey, and Achonwa who are all current (or soon to be) members of the Ring. Don't even need to mention her other stats and contributing factors.

Marina Mabrey is 8th all-time in scoring and also ahead of all the above mentioned except for Jewell Loyd. And again, all her other stats/factors don't need to be mentioned. In other words, these two did much more than score.

These two are no-brainers (to me) when their time comes

My argument for Jess Shepard - if you combine her Nebraska and ND stats, there would be no question. Add the National Championship and runner-up and that puts her over the top.

I still say Jewell Loyd should be there, too.

Jackie Young gets harder .... if she had come back, I don't think you could keep her off.

Kat Wesbeld is harder if you base it just on stats (we all know she was more than that). This would depend on how big the Ring gets

And I agree with your 1), 2), & 3) although Batteast & Ratay are behind Turner, Loyd, & Mabrey in scoring so maybe the order of joining could change.

Not even discussing Arike - the only question is when.


Arike
by hempfield75  (2019-09-10 21:01:32)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

I agree with you on Arike. A no brainer. She just need to wait her time
and turn. Beattest, Gaines, Ratay, Duffy, D Peters, and Novesel should
go before any of the new graduates are voted in. Then it becomes a dog
fight. They will all get in. Just a matter of when. Jackie and Jewell
may have the longest wait. Both Mabreys should go,

SEG/Chief


ACE
by hempfield75  (2019-09-09 20:31:05)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

I might try and get to that game. Bout the time I am planning on being in
PA

SEG/Chief


Well deserved! *
by Murcer68  (2019-09-09 18:03:29)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post