You can’t let GKC decide his own question?
by DakotaDomer (2019-05-28 22:13:45)

In reply to: If Arsenal wins  posted by HTownND


No one is disagreeing with your analysis - I just don’t think you understand his question.

So put down the keyboard and let him choose to say something.


The question is clear
by HTownND  (2019-05-29 08:26:15)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

“If Arsenal beats Chelsea tomorrow and thus earns entry into next year's Champions League, does it push another specific team out of next year's CL?”


The answer to that question is no. No one gets pushed out. There is no scenario where a team is pushed out or has their current situation change if Arsenal wins. Nothing changes if Arsenal wins. Nothing.

The only way things change is if Chelsea wins


This is next level argumentative
by DakotaDomer  (2019-05-29 08:37:20)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

What are you going to do when he says you misinterpreted him? Tell him he’s wrong about the meaning of his question?


Sorry for being late on this.
by G.K.Chesterton  (2019-05-29 14:20:48)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Yes, to DD's point, I am assuming that if Arsenal wins and is "in", then someone is out, unless the European Cup Champion League has an elastic number of entries. That's what I was driving at from a simpleton's point-of-view.


Let’s make it dead on balls clear
by HTownND  (2019-05-29 17:13:59)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Is your question

A) whether someone is bumped completely out of the Champions League entirely if Arsenal has won

or did you mean

B) Lyon, if Arsenal has won, wouldn’t have been moved up to the group stage and would “lose out” by not being in the group stage if Arsenal won?

Inquiring minds want to know.

I’ll hang up and listen


The answer is
by HTownND  (2019-05-29 14:35:40)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

There is a spot for Arsenal (or whomever the EL champion is, which is a group stage Pot 1 place), that is not tied to anyone else in the competition.

If they win, no one will be out. If Chelsea wins, they will occupy two spots, so people will move up. The same will happen with the UCL. If Spurs win, they get a group stage pot 1 spot, versus their 4th place group spot. People will move up (but no one new will be added). If Liverpool win, they already have a group stage spot, but will move to pot 1, and others will move up (neither Liverpool or Tottenham can hold two group stage spots)

But no matter what happens today and in the UCL final, no one will be bumped from the competition. No one will be added either. Just movement among the group/qualifying rounds.


His question was about Arsenal winning
by HTownND  (2019-05-29 08:46:51)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Arsenal winning changes nothing (doesn’t bump Lyon out as you suggested, they have not qualified for the group stage)

This isn’t next level argumentative, it’s crystal clear.

He asked about Arsenal winning. Nothing changes in any way shape or form if Arsenal wins today. Chelsea stays in the spot they qualified for in the group stage. Lyon stays in the qualifying round they are currently in based on their Ligue 1 finish, etc. There is currently 1 open slot in pot 1 of the group stage for the EL winner. Arsenal can fill that spot by winning. If Chelsea wins they will occupy two group stage spots, so a few teams move up.

But if you want to wait for him to chime in and say he meant if Chelsea wins does anything change, sure, let’s wait.


Can I get you to respond again?
by DakotaDomer  (2019-05-29 09:07:20)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Because this is hilarious


Yep
by HTownND  (2019-05-29 09:09:49)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Sorry you don’t read good.


Curious
by DakotaDomer  (2019-05-29 09:20:29)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Why did you bring up the PL when the OP didn’t? Are you sure you read good?

And why do you think he used the word “specific” in the context of his question?

There’s reasons to think GKC was asking what I believe he was asking and you have your reasons too. But what’s different is you’re going to argue a simple matter of clarification in 5 different posts rather than just stop making a fool of yourself.

I’ll take the hypocrisy ding on this one for presenting my case when it’s pretty obvious and unnecessary. I’m not going to apologize for setting you off by questioning your reading of the OP’s question.


Nice try
by HTownND  (2019-05-29 09:28:23)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

I appreciate the effort.

I brought up the PL for two reasons

1) Arsenal is in the PL (along with Chelsea). And qualifying usually, is tied to your league and table position based on the strength of the league.

2) The example that everyone thinks of, when a "specific" team was pushed out of the UCL was when Chelsea won the UCL and pushed Tottenham, the specific team that finished 4th in the PL that year and had, by definition, qualified for the UCL qualifying rounds because of that. When Chelsea won, it took away the 4th spot for the PL.

That's why I brought the PL up, because I'm assuming that the OP was referencing that specific example.

However, as has been noted, UEFA changed the rules after that happened.

So now, if Arsenal wins, no one is affected, and everyone goes to the spot they qualified for based on their league position, thus answering his question. I didn't read it wrong, I referenced the previous example that his question was addressing.

But hey, I'm game to keep going here. The question and answer are clear here.


Oh you certainly have noted plenty
by DakotaDomer  (2019-05-29 09:41:18)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Again and again and again and again it seems

It’s hilarious, you answered his question immediately with good information but the audacity of someone saying that you might be misinterpreting has basically broke your brain.


That's the thing though
by HTownND  (2019-05-29 09:55:43)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Even if I did misinterpret it, the answer doesn't change. No one is pushed "out" of the UCL.


There it is
by DakotaDomer  (2019-05-29 10:08:43)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

I was waiting for the moment you said (paraphrasing) “even if I’m wrong about what the OP was asking, I’m still right and their question was wrong.”

My work here is done, thanks GKC for initiating this. I know it wasn’t what you were hoping for, but I appreciated it. I’m sure somewhere in HTowns replies is the answer to the question you actually meant.


The question wasn't wrong
by HTownND  (2019-05-29 10:12:28)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

You were.

I'm glad you enjoyed the game, you were still 100% wrong (not the OP or it's question). Yes, we could read it to be if Lyon or LASK is getting bumped by Arsenal winning, but they are being bumped "up" not "out".

You're attempt to suggest there is another reading of the OP is what was wrong here.

There is no alternative reading of the OP that makes your statements valid, but hey, glad you're entertained.


I am certainly not entertained.
by miamioh_irishfan  (2019-05-29 10:23:28)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Da fuck is wrong with both of you?


I was entertained
by DakotaDomer  (2019-05-29 14:48:28)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

And in the end, right

Is this what it means to be tired of winning?


Still not reading good
by HTownND  (2019-05-29 15:00:50)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

"Yes, to DD's point, I am assuming that if Arsenal wins and is "in", then someone is out, unless the European Cup Champion League has an elastic number of entries. That's what I was driving at from a simpleton's point-of-view."

He clarified, and while he said to your point, if you look at the bold part, you were wrong, and the other posters and I accurately answered his question, that no one is "out".

He was asking if a team gets bumped from the competition, which they don't. So the Lyon, and other stuff you brought up was wrong. I read his question right, and answered correctly. No one gets bumped from the competition if Arsenal wins.


Now I think you’re trolling
by DakotaDomer  (2019-05-29 16:57:26)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

You can’t possibly be this bad at understanding GK’s posts


They're bored *
by wcnitz  (2019-05-29 10:45:16)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post


You're wrong
by HTownND  (2019-05-29 10:49:30)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Not really