If that is all they ever win domestically under Klopp, is that an all time great coach? If you want to make the argument he is an all-time great Liverpool coach, then sure, but that's not how I read the claim.

And hell Mainz for that matter.

Pep is an all time great manager. But the next club that he manages that wasn’t the dominant 1a/1b giant club before he got there will be his first. I think plenty reasonable folks will respect Klopp more for what he’s done. But it’s not a pissing match. They’re both great coaches.

I honestly can’t imagine very many, if any, people agreeing with your opinion that Klopp is not an all time great manager.

I said, "His German record is far more impressive with two leagues and four domestic cups in seven years in the Bundesliga."

He's a really, really good manager, but I think his impact in the Premier League and overall is overstated.

statement that started this thread.

The claim was that Klopp is an all time great manager, period.

He made the shift to all time Liverpool coach, which I don't particularly care about, but whatever floats Liverpool fan boats.

I'll stand by two trophies in five years in the Premier League is not an all time great manager, even including his work in Germany. If so, maybe we should crown DiMatteo for winning one Champions League in his single year with Chelsea.

The man is already a Liverpool legend because of what he's accomplished.

That alone makes him one of the great current managers. Look at his entire resume and he's definitely in the top managers of all time list (or, as someone said, in the manager HOF).

And if not for arguably the greatest Bayern squad in history, he'd have another CL, too.

edit: should add that right now, there's only one manager I'd take over Klopp and that is Pep. And that's purely subjective. I put him over Zidane, Simeone, etc.

Nobody "made the shift" to all time great Liverpool coach. There's not an argument there. You aren't a Liverpool fan and you don't care about it. Perhaps you can create your own thread about all time great premier league managers. Apparently that is the argument you want to have. But its inarguable that the man who ended Liverpool's 30 year title drought (who btw also won a UCL trophy, UCL final, Europa Final and the highest point total ever in a 2nd place finish in any domestic season) is considered a Liverpool great.

But the original comment is not limited to Liverpool. And I'd happen to agree that what he did at BVB is also remarkable - if not more so. And their fans hold him in similar regard. Which is exactly what makes him an all time great. He took two above average league teams and turned them into elite title contenders. That is without question something Pep has never done.

P.S. Lou Holtz won one national championship at Notre Dame. By your standards he's definitely not an all-time great coach and should be considered great by ND fans.

But you're obtuse if you think two trophies in 7 years makes for an all-time great coach unless its a really deep team picture. That you start citing runner-up status in tournaments as a supporting achievement tells me all I need to know.

Liverpool's aggression is great, but as for tactics he offers little more than a pressurized dump and chase. I guess that makes Klopp the rich man's Sam Allerdyce.

We'll see next season, but my money's on a reversion to the norm of zero trophies under Klopp.

Finally, not sure what Lou has to do with it, but while I love Lou, any one being honest will admit disappointment that we only won one National Championship during his tenure.

Is using only Klopp's tenure at Liverpool to make the claim that he's an all-time great manager.

Read more.

He'll cement his legend status when he wins the 2022 World Cup with Germany.

and loses to his protege Christian Pulisic in the final.

He's going to right the wrongs of Jurgens past and take his boy to World Cup glory. One can dream right????