You got it
by wcnitz (2020-10-19 12:01:40)

In reply to: What's the difference between that and Richarlison's red?  posted by NDBass


That section of law 11 specifically calls out any offense occurring right after the offside infraction. It really should be changed to allow for serious foul play to be determined while keeping the offside infraction intact.


Except the card could have been shown to Pickford.
by NDMike2001  (2020-10-19 13:32:44)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

The flag did not go up nor was the whistle blown prior to the malicious tackle. Oliver saw the offense and could have shown a straight red. After the challenge the ball went out of play and the whistle was blown. He then looked to the line judge who made the offsides call. You’ll note that in the pictures showing the challenge the flag is still down.

That is the strangest part of all of this. They keep saying that Oliver blew the whistle before the challenge but that is simply not true.


Doesn't matter, though
by wcnitz  (2020-10-19 13:57:49)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

It isn't when the whistle is blown, it's the point of the infraction. Offside is the one exception where something like serious foul play isn't punished if it comes after the infraction. The pundits who keep talking about the whistle are missing the point. The law has to be adjusted to account for it.

Specifically, this passage in 11:
an offence is committed against a player in an offside position who is already playing or attempting to play the ball, or challenging an opponent for the ball, the offside offence is penalised as it has occurred before the foul challenge

That's why Richarlison gets a red and Pickford doesn't.


That’s where clarification is needed.
by NDMike2001  (2020-10-19 14:10:16)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Because emphasis has been made for line judges to hold their flags and allow VAR to correct the call or otherwise make sure the play ends before a call impacts an outcome. In this instance during play the dangerous play occurred. Then offsides was called. Oliver apparently let the offsides call negate a foul in the box. But must have missed the serious nature of the offense because he didn’t even reach for his pocket. Oliver never considered a dangerous play and VAR didn’t give him a chance to review it.


I don't disagree
by wcnitz  (2020-10-19 14:13:21)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

And don't get me started on the PL standard for serious foul play. It's almost as bad as La Liga's.


I just saw the video replay for the first time.
by G.K.Chesterton  (2020-10-19 23:07:10)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

It's 2020 and that move was OK because offsides was called? As I heard one talking head say today, Pickford could have punched VVD in the face and not been called for anything, based on these rules.


The talking head was wrong
by wcnitz  (2020-10-20 11:24:57)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

That's VC, and VC can occur at any point (even before a match has started or after it has ended).

They should adjust the offside law if only to account for delayed offside calls. Like I said above, it wouldn't be a huge change.


Thanks.
by NDBass  (2020-10-19 13:10:11)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

I agree on your proposed change. Seems like a no-brainer. Especially with the new emphasis on not raising the flag for offside right away. Hopefully Sergio Ramos hasn't realized this potential loophole.


Correct, and it's why when VAR isn't involved
by wcnitz  (2020-10-19 13:59:42)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

Offside whistle has to be immediate (and long) when there's a possible keeper collision. Something we enforce very much at the lower levels.


I don't think this particular injury would've been avoided.
by NDBass  (2020-10-19 14:04:33)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post

But I've been waiting for a major injury/event to occur on a delayed offside play.


Yeah, wouldn't have mattered in this case *
by wcnitz  (2020-10-19 14:11:49)     cannot delete  |  Edit  |  Return to Board  |  Ignore Poster   |   Highlight Poster  |   Reply to Post