Here Comes the Sun

Posted on by John Vannie

Notre Dame (9-3) has accepted an invitation to play in the Sun Bowl on Friday, December 29 in El Paso, Texas against Oregon State (8-4). The Fighting Irish had little choice in the matter, as teams from the ACC and Big-10 grabbed open spots in more prestigious bowls that had earlier appeared to be viable destinations for the program.

The Beavers have become refugees from the defunct PAC-12 Conference. Their head coach, Jonathan Smith, has already departed for Michigan State. It has not yet been determined how many of the current Oregon State players will make the trip to El Paso but there is bound to be significant attrition. The Beavers have only three committed games in 2024 at this point in time. They have just reached an agreement with the Mountain West Conference to schedule additional games.

Similarly, several Notre Dame have already announced their intention to leave the program. More are expected to follow suit this week. Among the likely departures are tackles Joe Alt and Blake Fisher, along with running back Audric Estime.

Jack Swarbrick and Brian Kelly proved to be disappointments

This will be the final football game under the leadership of Athletic Director Jack Swarbrick, who took over in July 2008. That fall, the Irish finished 7-6 under Charlie Weis after winning the Hawaii Bowl in Honolulu. This year’s season and bowl assignment are strikingly similar in terms of the level of disappointment. They also provide conspicuous evidence of Swarbrick’s utter failure to raise either the floor or the ceiling of the football program in his 16 years on the job.

We will look at this game in more detail once we get a sense of which players will actually be participating.

Tell John what you think in the Comments below

Categories

Tags

73 thoughts on “Here Comes the Sun”

  1. ND fan in the South says:

    With 10 or so players in the portal and perhaps some like Estime and Alt sitting on the sidelines to avoid injuries, we will see a lot of young players on the field for ND. Those of us that wanted to see more backups will get their wish.

    • Mike says:

      Additional bright-side: the El Paso game allows potential recruits in the Southwest to attend a Notre Dame game on their own and not burn an official contact. Sun Bowl seats and hotel accommodations probably won’t be expensive, and they can make the trip for the price of a tank of gas. It’s a good thing that Estime and Alt would be nuts to play because as you say we’ll get to see talent that’s been on the bench. Respectfully meant about the potential first rounders sitting this one out: it’s not the Rose Bowl and not worth the risk of blowing a lucrative NFL career.

    • Ccb says:

      Estime will be an absolute monster, in the NFL. However, he will be sorely missed next year for both his athletic ability and his attitude.

  2. Eric says:

    This is an awful bowl game for a good team – crappy opponent, crappy location. Bye bye Jack, you will not be missed!

  3. PC says:

    Two things are probably true here- the ACC tried to screw ND out of their rightful bowl game and they inadvertently setting them up with the highest ranked and best overall game out of the available options. No matter though, ND officials should be getting some explanation as to how a 9-3 Irish team was passed over for NC ST. Clearly things are fishy. Do we know what occurred?

  4. Jake in Cali says:

    JVAN,

    A 9-3 Irish team going to the Sun Bowl is so wrong for many reasons!!

    I couldn’t believe it when I saw it yesterday!

    A 7-5 Wisconsin team playing LSU – They’ve got to be kidding all of us….

    • Gary says:

      First bowl game I have missed on y arms. Something is wrong. Is the ACC trying to force us to join them in football ?
      I encourage everyone to watch the game on TV

    • ND fan in the South says:

      Agreed. The bowl committees passed up a big TV viewing and $$$ opportunity when they did NOT schedule a ND v. LSU contest.

  5. Bill says:

    Other than playoff games, all bowl games should be abolished. Transfer portal and NIL have made bowl games a waste of time and money. I wish ND would take a stand and respectfully decline the invitation

    • jeff says:

      Maybe the program isn’t where we wish it to be, but it is a little harsh saying that nothing has improved in the past 15 years, versus say the 15 years before that, when a freefall was underway through Davie-Willingham-Weis. The program at least recognizes that it has had to change with the times, albeit to sometimes mixed and frustrating results. From ’94 to to ’11, the team won 10 games twice and no bowl games until the ’10 Sun Bowl. Current circumstances are not good for independent football, to say the least.

  6. Dan says:

    This is ridiculous! Yes, the team didn’t meet its goals this year.

    They were, nevertheless, a good team. And to say that Swarbrick wasn’t a success and that the team over the past 15 years wasn’t vastly better than it was in the 10 years preceding has not been watching. Would anyone suggest Davie-Willingham-Weis was anywhere near Kelly-Freeman in terms of football product?

    • John Vannie says:

      You must be a New York Jets fan. Or maybe the Washington Commanders.

      Perhaps you should revisit Brian Kelly’s miserable record against Top Ten teams before trying to lecture us on what a “good” team is. This year’s team fit firmly into the same Not Ready for Prime Time category. You’ve been sold a bill of goods by Mr. Swarbrick. The last major bowl win for the program was 30 years ago. The program has been treading water ever since.

      I will give Jack credit for bringing us field turf instead of natural grass. I really enjoy the higher incidence of catastrophic knee injuries, many of which are of the non-contact variety. Good riddance to him.

      • GOND88 says:

        You forgot the stadium jumbotron and “crazy train” blaring from the speakers when an opponent is on third down.

        • ND fan in the South says:

          Sorry…the jumbotron was a recruiting necessity. Every player watches his replay after performance.

      • Richard says:

        Did Jack/BK achieve the most important goal/metric (championships)? No. And you could argue that they fell pretty short of that. In that sense, you are right. They failed. But as someone that was a student at ND from 2000-2005, during the exact era Dan referenced, the teams these days are eons better.

        ND’s winning % during the Jackie BK era was 72% vs. 58% under Kevin White and his trainwreck hires. That era averaged 7-5 seasons with only two 10+ win seasons. Jack/BK/Freeman averaged over 9 wins per season and less than 4 losses. They went to the NC, CFP twice, since 2017 have five 10+ win seasons with a chance for a 6th. Did they get blown away against elite comp? yep, but they sure weren’t in the toilet like before.

        To say the floor, nor ceiling was raised is factually incorrect.

        On a completely separate note, I’m sorry to hear about your loss. Also, thank you for all your work all these years along with your colleagues. This is always a fun/informative…albeit cantankerous…website. 🙂

      • Will says:

        John, thank you for reminding everybody of what a “good” ND team is. I fear there are hordes of younger alumni and fans who know very little about ND’s glorious past. You have an important role at this website to remind our fan base of what excellence is. Thanks.

    • George says:

      The AD is responsible for the top position coaches resume and he failed on the offensive side. That is a big miss for a potential top 10 team.

      • mike says:

        Endeavoring to provide an assist…..what you REALLY are supremely fortunate for is that none of the group including Davie, Willingham Weis, Kelly, “Dr.” White, and “Jackie” were in the shoes of Marshall, Patton, Eisenhower, Nimitz, Roosevelt, Truman and other American WW II military and political leaders.

  7. Dave O says:

    Except the playoffs, bowl games are now just the first spring scrimmage. ND will be missing its transfers and draft prospects. With Oregon St being left out of leagues realignment, I wouldn’t be surprised if half of their team enters the portal. This will happen at lots of schools. At this point Bowl games barely qualify as a competition between two varsity teams.

    • GraceHallChapel86 says:

      Their QB has already entered the portal. So ND is playing an opponent with a backup head coach and a backup quarterback, at least. Commentary on the futility of bowl games in general is spot on. Almost none of the teams that play in bowl games are really the teams that play during the regular season.

  8. DJM says:

    Someone in the ND University leadership decided long ago to emphasize education and de-emphasize football. Probably the only major school without name on end zone turf. White parking lot stripes instead. Only one, relatively small re-play screen. Sit in the South end zone sometime. There should be 2 more in the SW corner and SE corner. “Touchdown Jesus” would still be seen. First stadium expansion was excellent while maintaining original. Then someone decide to add 3 (I kindly call attachments) for educational/student activities/religious purposes. Constructing buildings for construction’s sake (called donations) while enrollment stays primarily the same since the 60’s. $60-80,000 tuition. Football parking relegated almost to the suburbs. Joining the ACC.
    Finally, best indicator of de-emphasis, the BOGO (buy one, get one free) offers for mostly ACC games while the decreasing “good ones” are exhorbitantly high. Just calculate what a family of 4 would have to pay to come to South Bend for a football game. Don’t forget the 2 day minimum stay plus travel costs, plus meals, plus parking; etc. etc. Enough said. Quit complaing. Getting what you deserve. De-emphasize and Toilet Bowl is next.

    • mike says:

      I’d hate to see it happen, most of the time. At other times, further reflection seems to align with your post’s assertions. In fact, once the reasoning behind the 3 “attachments” was provided, it began to appear that the university was preparing itself for the ultimate cancellation of the FB program on an intercollegiate level, following the example of the U of Chicago (one of its aspirational peers) in 1939. Think about it…..centrally located large outdoor stadium, now with artificial surface allowing for any and all events upon it without need for costly maintenance, and now also constructed in such a way as to allow for multiple educational, entertainment, and convention-related activities, thereby utilizing what o/w would be an empty space. It could even host a CFB bowl game in a nod to ND’s CFB history, perhaps part of the CFBP, NFL games, even high school FB playoffs. The mind boggles at the possibilities. Furthermore, if the university is unwilling to actually compete at the highest level of CFB, as opposed to “being in the conversation,” rather than continue to waddle in its current 30-year puddle of mediocrity, it should just pull the plug. That would at least be more honest, and more honorable of its history. I expect that’s where it’s all headed, with a very nicely tasteful “museum” honoring the legacy of its CFB program, with a princely entrance fee, of course.

      • Mike says:

        Gag.
        If you’re going to be so odious, at least type things out rather than, e.g., make o/w stand for otherwise. “more honorable of its history” . . . gag again. OMG!
        Still, enjoy the CFBP.

        • mike says:

          You can dispute, and in fact I would defend your right to do so vigorously, if called upon; however, please provide some reasoning as to why my comments were “odious.” Including facts in your reasoning to refute my post’s supposition would he helpful, rather than just name calling. Commonly accepted abbreviations are broadly understood, and unworthy of disdain. And thank you, I certainly will enjoy the post-season, starting with this weekend’s Navy-Army game. GO NAVY!!!

          • Mike says:

            Your post a couple days ago deemed Notre Dame football a has-been. Fighting Irish football is not a has-been. If the intention was merely sarcastic, then it wasn’t fully odious.
            But you shouldn’t be working at your cleverness mojo at the team’s expense.
            Go Army!

      • Irish Penance says:

        ND can compete with the best … for the Benjamins and for the eggheads. ND football is history. Literally. Less than irrelevant. It’s sad for this fan who remembers the great teams of the 70s and 80s. I live 20 miles from campus and probably wouldn’t go to another game if they paid me.

      • ND fan in the South says:

        All of you naysayers need to realize that this team has a legitimate chance to finish in the top 10 final rankings. We wanted more….we always will. ND football is here to stay.

  9. David Jones MD says:

    I can’t imagine anyone who would be interested in watching this game except a die-hard Notre Dame or Oregon State fan, especially with so few starters from either team likely to play. I am extremely disappointed in Jack Swarbrick with all his supposed connections not being able to arrange a bettter bowl game as his parting accomplishment.

  10. DJM says:

    Correction. Should have said NW corner and NE corner of stadium. South end zone seats should be free, especially those in the upper level. Wait a minute, that’s where visiting team ticket holders are put.

  11. jeff says:

    All power in college football has shifted to the conferences over the last almost 40 years, and this has only accelerated with the most recent rounds of realignment. There is the SEC, the Big10, and then the second tier conferences and then everyone else. Anyone who thinks it is about on the field product or wielding connections, is kidding themselves. FSU just went undefeated, is in the Top 4 polls, and beat 2 SEC teams, and got left out of the playoffs. Why? Because they sure as hell were not going to leave the SEC out, under any circumstances. ND has the financial ability to be an independent when no other program can do this, but that means you are going to get left out of what you want some times. The PAC12 has folded because of TV revenue despite having a good or great product. The ACC probably is not far behind. If anything, JS represents playing the business side of things, and that is life in 2023 college football.

    • mike says:

      While it is likely true that the PTB strongly wished to see an SEC team in the CFBP, it is also true that Jordan Travis’ season-ending injury allowed them the opening to do just that. Had he not been injured, FSU would be in the CFBP, not Bama. The PAC-12 folded due to a combination of poor leadership, poor conference-wide team performance, geographic location leading to diminished viewership; this year’s conference-wide performance has been an outlier that unfortunately occurred after the conference breakup was a done deal. Your comment regarding JS is spot on.

  13. D. Gremillion says:

    The buck stops at the top: Jenkins, Swarbrick, Kelly. Reminds me of Vanderbilt football. The players are only Gladiators to entertain the fans. Now that Jenkins, Swarbrick, and Kelly have gone, the players may have a chance at a great season and a Natty. Thank God Jenkins, Swarbrick, and Kelly were not in any way involved in World War Two. Normandy would have been like one of the pitiful seasons ND had since 1989. Pick one. The Gerries would be serving up Sauerkraut in St. Malo and in the North and South Dining Halls.

  14. Joseph Wells says:

    So right on! Jack Starbucks did pretty much nothing for ND football during his tenure. He probably hired the wrong coordinator to be head coach, as evidenced by what Tommy has done under Saban. Of course, the players “love “ coach Freeman, who has done nada to prep a new QB for 24. The one positive is Jack kept us independent for 15 years.

  15. TraderZ says:

    I would expect the BIG to or ACC to protect their interest given ND is not a full member in either conference.

    Given that ND needs a home for its non football programs perhaps the biggest opportunity missed by Swarbick was to try and create a national conference with the best brands and eyeball viewing programs in the country that covered the USA from coast to coast. It is eventually coming to that and more consolidation will likely lead to the demise of the ACC.

    The Oregon and Oregon State Wash and Wash St scenarios play out the example perfectly as to what brands win and lose. Does the SEC really need a Vanderbilt when you got Tennessee or a Miss. St which only bring a few viewers.

    ND could have led the drive to a Super Conference rather than be forced into it one day.

    • mike says:

      ND is no longer interested in being a leader among educational institutions; its desire is to be included in the conversation with its aspirational peers (Ivies, Stanford, MIT, Cal Tech, etc). The same is true of its CFB program, as administered by the BOT, Jenkins, and Swarbrick. ND still sees value in its historical independence, but that will change when $$$ begin to be potentially lost in large enough orders of magnitude (anybody’s guess as to what that number is); it will be asked to join the inevitable superconference toward which major D-I CFB is headed, largely due to its history and not likely due to any significant on-filed accomplishments that occur between now and then. Given ND’s LONG history of ambivalence towards top-level athletic achievement, ironically interrupted by Hesburgh’s epiphany in the early 60s that excellence in athletics is in fact NOT anathema to institutional academic success, and the recent decades of an evolving attitude of “being in the conversation,” it is not possible to see exactly where this is all headed now, but we should know much more within 2 years of the arrivals of the new AD and university President. As Freeman says, it’ll be a bumpy road.

  16. Mike says:

    This bowl game actually becomes more interesting without the stars and without the transfer-outs because the 9-3 record keeps any post-season game from being typically compelling. So we will get to see players who didn’t play much and see what they will bring to next season. Notre Dame didn’t recruit them to sit on the bench and with the Sun Bowl they’ll finally get to show how good they are. I hope the season’s great contributors who are headed to the NFL in the first round are allowed to be with the team on the sidelines; the reality now in college football at large is for such players to skip suiting up for any bowl game that isn’t in the playoffs.

    • ND fan in the South says:

      Yes, we should see many new players and subs on the field. Call it the “Substitute Bowl”. Both teams will have young recruits playing out of necessity because players who entered the portal may be committed to other teams and the stars awaiting the draft will be on the sidelines. After playing 30 or 40 games, those stars do not want to risk injury for their team. Essentially, they are not ON the team, so why should they be allowed to suit up. It is sad how the $$$ has hurt the college game.

      • Mike says:

        They should be allowed to be on the sidelines because the Old School
        Spirit that Stover felt for Yale and we feel for Notre Dame has been modified by fortunes to be made in the NFL which can enrich a player and his family for generations. I didn’t say they should suit up, rather that they should still be considered part of the team and allowed to be on the sidelines to show their support.

        • ND fan in the South says:

          Ara and Lou would never go for it. The Jaylen Smith injury a few years ago was a very rare occurrence that lives on in the minds of our star players. Those sitting out played 30-40 (or more) games and now worry about injury. I know, it’s all about the money, but how meaningful is their support as they watch their fellow teammates take the field to risk it all for the team?

          • Mike says:

            It’s clear that the entire bowl situation has changed. Now most of them can be viewed as preparation for the next regular season–and what’s wrong with that? It will be interesting to see a different depth chart for the Oregon State game. Plenty of us want to see what Angeli can do at length. And to see other players we don’t know so much about get a chance to play significant minutes. Viewing the bowls is simply about accepting a new model. But it doesn’t tamper with Go Irish!

  17. Will says:

    The question occurred to me this morning, when I read that Liufau was going to sit out the bowl game, why should anyone one care if ND wins this bowl game? Why should fans care about a team whose players don’t care about the team? I predict that Liufau will be the first of 8 to 10 ND players who will decline to play. These guys never cared about ND; they only care about themselves. The Tony Tiger Sun Bowl will be nothing more than an early Blue/Gold game….I’m sorry a Blue/Orange game. ND football is dead. Goodbye….I’m going to work on my green side sand shots. PS….Liufau is dreaming if he thinks he has an NFL career in his future. Half the time he seemed utterly lost and apathetic.

  18. TraderZ says:

    The minimum salary in the NFL stands at $750k and goes up as you accrue years of service. Most people take a decade or more to see that amount of salary so I hope he gets on with his dream to play in the NFL even if it is for a year. If not he has earned a degree from ND and can go pursue other opportunities.

    Let the 2024 season begin with this bowl game and see what current roster players can do vs. what #8 has already done.

  20. Paul Argentieri says:

    I’m a bit older than John Vannie and I was at a lot of big games: Miami in 1985, 1988, 1989, and 1990; Mich. St. 1987 Tim Brown’s 2 punt returns for TD’s; S. Cal 1987 & 1989; Fl. State 1993, Stanford losses in 1990 & 1992 to coaches Dennis Green and Bill Walsh, and based upon my watching ND’s championship teams on TV since 1966 (we couldn’t get the 1964 season on tv) they all had these qualities: championship quarterbacks (Huarte, Hanratty, Theisman, Clements, Montana, and Rice; great defenses particularly on the defensive line and a hard hitting team that played lights out after a fight or scuffle.

    And normally 3 AA on the offensive and defensive sides of the ball.

    Brady Quinn, Jimmy Clausen and Demetrious Jones were all good enough to win a championship but unfortunately had incomplete team talent.

    Our present team needs a championship quarterback and frankly more 1st round NFL talent on the defense as we’re good and can play great for a stretch, but our offense also plays poorly, on too many occasions.

    Now that Hartman was the 4th best transfer QB last year versus the other transfer OB’s Penix, Nix, and Daniels, we glaringly missed out and hopefully will “evaluate” better as ND.

    Of course someone like the “Rocket” or a Zorich, or a Ross Browner/Alan Page, with a Montana, et al, would juice up our team!

    Every coach has had issues as Parseghian had tough losses to Purdue and S. Cal (of course the reffing at S. Cal were crimes); Lou Holtz wouldn’t blitz enough on defense, or throw end zone enough, and it cost him 2 championships in 1989 at Miami and Boston College in 1993 and of course the losses to Stanford were a shock.

    About the fans and field: when they allowed the students to form a human wall outside the tunnel to the sidelines in the big games, and the famous Trojan horse, with the end zones spelling ND or “Fighting Irish” that was raw, real and ruthless that we need to bring it again.

    Thx John for your true ND perspectives.

    Paul A.

    • Mike says:

      That wasn’t Lou’s fault in 1993 that the linebacker did an Irish jig in front of the Boston College quarterback instead of ramming into him.

  21. Paul Argentieri says:

    To Mike about the Boston College game; unsure about that one play but every time we blitzed their QB he would crumple and we couldn’t stop their tight end but BC had Tom Coughlin their HC.

    In the 1989 Miami game the one play that changed that game was the 3rd and 44, and we don’t blitz their QB who couldn’t run as we had the momentum.

    Lou did an excellent job with horrendous schedules until Vinnie Cerrato left.

  23. Christopher James Amenson says:

    I wish college football would go back to having to wait a year to play if you transfer and also get rid of NIL.

    These two phenomenon have altered college ball to look more like pro ball.

    • Jim says:

      College football has become minor league professional football. With the exception of a few major programs who run it as a business employing non-student players, it’s destined to be every bit as popular as minor league baseball or the NBA D league or whatever they’re calling it now.

  24. ND fan in the South says:

    Mike, I finally have to acknowledge and agree in part with your post of Dec. 11. It will be good to see our subs see more action in competition. Yes, the bowls have changed dramatically. I just have not yet accepted this whole portal, NIL, sit out for NFL draft chaos that reeks havoc on the once pure game of college football. I was in school when Ara was coach. The players displayed total pride in playing for the Irish, while getting a great education.

    • Mike says:

      I was there then, too. Those were serious fellows. One had the impression they were already grown men; it seemed as though half of them were married or engaged to be. I have thought about when Lynch and Page and Eddy were freshmen and had to witness Notre Dame losing. Did that bring them together so profoundly that it made the ’66 National Champions the team it was? It seemed as though on the field that season they knew each other’s thoughts. Thanks very much to you for considering the then vis-a-vis the now, seeing my point of view which really is quite like yours but I’m already game for this new model, because the genie is out of the bottle.

      • ND fan in the South says:

        Maybe at least part of the genie can be put back into the bottle. The NCAA was basically stripped of its power to impose restrictions on transfer and NIL compensation when the Supreme Court ruled in the Alston case that there were antitrust violations and college athletes had value for their NIL and were free to market themselves, and free to transfer as other students. However, , some power may be given back to it by our Senate (Senators Manchin, a Democrat, and Senator Tuberville, a Republican) through a bill introduced last July. Bill, which includes many safeguards to clear up the chaos, would require a student athlete who accepts an athletic scholarship to remain at the school for 3 years or suffer a penalty for transferring. The NCAA would set the penalty. The bill is pending. Let’s see what happens.

  25. Mike says:

    Steve Angeli should grin and bear the stab in the back and play in the Sun Bowl to get some good work and experience, THEN enter the Transfer Portal.

    • ND fan in the South says:

      But Angeli can lose his scholarship to ND once he enters the portal. He forfeits his roster spot. So….be careful, Steve.

  26. #♥️🍀50 says:

    I have always said whether it is BK or Marcus or any other future HC the university has to give them the tools on an off the field. I feel they did some what for BK to an extent (he did move the program from a high 2 tiered to a high 3rd tier program) but still lost the BIG game. With Marcus, at this point I would say no (didn’t hire the OC that program needs and wanted instead we had to settle for Parker who failed to improve on Hartman’s talents).